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20yrs old 326 Total T

monsterbox

monsterbox

Well-known member
I don't get it. Its been 3 months since I played around with SD/Phera for a month. Phera didn't do anything and I used SD for 7 days.

I've had 4 blood tests since then.

First one, day 7 pct 250 total T
Second one week 2, 466 total T (stopped using toremifene this week due to liver enzymes elevated) LH levels - 4

2 weeks later - Total T 366

Last week...2 months later. Total T only 326 at 8am.

WTF? Going to an endocrinologist now. I feel completely normal, sex drive normal, feel the same as I have all my life. I truly believe this is my base line.

Also had ultrasound on my varicocele to see if this is a probable cause...no testicular atrophy of any kind. Doctor says its not the varicocele in any way at this point.




Im assuming what needs to be done is get on HCG/SERM to rule out if its pituitary related for a month or two. Testosteron will probably rise as it rose to 466 on toremifene in those two weeks following the SD. If it drops off then proceed from there.
 
You can do a week on clomid(50mg) and retest Total test, and it will tell you where you stand.

From there you can attempt to do a low dose(12.5-25mg) clomid "restart".

If your TT doesn't hold, you can then see if you can get a Dr to prescribe HCG as a more permanent solution.

OR

You can live with it as is, being it seems you are symptomless.
 
got a question about blood tests....how do you go about getting your doctor to right u a script for them? Or do you pay out of pocket everytime?

i got my baselines done a couple of months ago by claiming fatigue/loss of sex drive...etc.. so it would be covered under insurance....not sure how to go about getting my post pct blood work done...wasn't a big fan of telling my doc i messed around with ph's.
 
okay well i'm not going to tell the doc about the SD i used in january because I think its almost entirely irrelevant althought I cannot prove that. I can however say I feel exactly the same as I did all throughout high school. My sex drive is high but not nearly what it was when I was like 12. I also gained an insanely stupid amount of muscle on havoc both times which leads me to believe my body is conditioned for low testosterone hence why I made huge gains on that sh*t.

I"m going to talk to the doctor about trying hcg followed by toremifene and seeing if my levels rise. The nurse that scheduled my appointment said they will do anything to help increase my hormone level to where I should be at my age including TRT.



I know that if things are really bad I can at least turn to TRT which I'm not afraid. Its slightly exciting in a screwed up way to know I can feel a ton better than I've ever felt.

My number one concern about TRT is....what happens when you want to have kids? Can you use HCG with trt like once every few weeks to maitain testicle size and allow sperm production to work correctly? I mean once you go TRT at 20 years old theres no going back?
 
1st of all, you will not go on TRT with any of those levels. Your doctors will be crazy to do that. They are all in normal range. You dont need to be messing with hCG. It is suppressive. I would do one of two things.

1) Dont do a thing. let your body relax

2) Run one bottle of Formex for 4 weeks in a 50/50/25/25 fashion and let you body be normal after that.
 
deads4life said:
got a question about blood tests....how do you go about getting your doctor to right u a script for them? Or do you pay out of pocket everytime?

i got my baselines done a couple of months ago by claiming fatigue/loss of sex drive...etc.. so it would be covered under insurance....not sure how to go about getting my post pct blood work done...wasn't a big fan of telling my doc i messed around with ph's.
Click to expand...

monsterbox said:
okay well i'm not going to tell the doc about the SD i used in january because I think its almost entirely irrelevant althought I cannot prove that. I can however say I feel exactly the same as I did all throughout high school. My sex drive is high but not nearly what it was when I was like 12. I also gained an insanely stupid amount of muscle on havoc both times which leads me to believe my body is conditioned for low testosterone hence why I made huge gains on that sh*t.

I"m going to talk to the doctor about trying hcg followed by toremifene and seeing if my levels rise. The nurse that scheduled my appointment said they will do anything to help increase my hormone level to where I should be at my age including TRT.



I know that if things are really bad I can at least turn to TRT which I'm not afraid. Its slightly exciting in a screwed up way to know I can feel a ton better than I've ever felt.

My number one concern about TRT is....what happens when you want to have kids? Can you use HCG with trt like once every few weeks to maitain testicle size and allow sperm production to work correctly? I mean once you go TRT at 20 years old theres no going back?
Click to expand...


2 ways to play this..
You don't tell your doctor you used PH's.....
OR
You tell him "off the record, I used PH's. And I expect that to be kept of the record".......
 
Nothing wrong with your test levels..... give it another 6 months and see what happens.

If you dont feel any different I would assume that nothing is wrong.

People always moan that there test levels are not where they expect them to be. its just a number and unless its in the very low scale I wouldnt worry about it if you are functionaing normally.
 
lastest testosterone

Total T - 313 (scale to 857)
Free T - 9.7 (scale to 27)
SHBG - 19
LH - 1.5
FSH - 2.7

Hmmmm....wtf does this mean. Its been 5 months since Ive used any kind of PH. I feel the same emotionally/physically/sexually as I did 3 years ago.

On toremifene my LH was 4.2 and my Total was 466. That was months ago...why is my LH falling down to 1.5. Past 3 months my total T is in the 300's. Something is wrong with my pituitary function.

Based on my calculations, if at 1.5 my total T is 313 and at 4.2 total = 466. Then if my LH was constantly around 4-5 which is normal, my total t would be around 500, meaning that the rest is Primary, and related to my varicocele.

So, First I need to attack the pituitary problem with endocrinologists and then fix the varicocele to allow Testosterone response to raise with LH.
 
nattydisaster said:
1) Dont do a thing. let your body relax
Click to expand...

Not that i know what your going on about but i agree with natty. Just let your body relax! After the Pplex, Sdrol and whatever else doesn't it just seem like a good idea to stop everything and just get on with working out and eating. I don't see why you're so worried about your Test levels. people are telling you there fine.

monsterbox said:
Hmmmm....wtf does this mean. Its been 5 months since Ive used any kind of PH. I feel the same emotionally/physically/sexually as I did 3 years ago.
Click to expand...

so why is there a problem?:dunno:
 
Chub said:
Not that i know what your going on about but i agree with natty. Just let your body relax! After the Pplex, Sdrol and whatever else doesn't it just seem like a good idea to stop everything and just get on with working out and eating. I don't see why you're so worried about your Test levels. people are telling you there fine.



so why is there a problem?:dunno:
Click to expand...

because now I realize why I'm always worrying about something constantly and feeling anxious alot.

I don't have a "good" to compare this feeling all my life too...I've always been somewhat Bi-Polar since high school, and easily upset.
 
monsterbox said:
because now I realize why I'm always worrying about something constantly and feeling anxious alot.

I don't have a "good" to compare this feeling all my life too...I've always been somewhat Bi-Polar since high school, and easily upset.
Click to expand...

but wouldn't taking all this other stuff with sides that may be helping you just make things worse?

I'd just take a step back and relax. Going on TRT and HCG at 20 just doesn't sound good at all
 
Now I see why the government wants to ban steroids......monster there is nothing wrong with you!!! if you have no symptoms of low T you do not need any type of treatment, quite frankly you sound more like you need a doctor for your anxiety, go to a doc and get treatment for anxiety you need that not trt
 
you guys are out of your damn mind period.


I HAVE symptoms of low-t! I HAVE a varicocele. My symptoms are just not severe as someone with even lower levels. I also SERIOUSLY doubt its from steroids, I've run freaking havoc and PPlex over the course of a year with 4 months in between and full pcts. I told you guys I feel the same as I did BEFORE pro-hormones. THIS IS MORE THAN LIKELY MY BASELINE.
 
monsterbox said:
you guys are out of your damn mind period.


I HAVE symptoms of low-t! I HAVE a varicocele. My symptoms are just not severe as someone with even lower levels. I also SERIOUSLY doubt its from steroids, I've run freaking havoc and PPlex over the course of a year with 4 months in between and full pcts. I told you guys I feel the same as I did BEFORE pro-hormones. THIS IS MORE THAN LIKELY MY BASELINE.
Click to expand...

what about the Sdrol and other crap you took afterwards to self medicate yourself? not trying to have a go or anything..
 
If its your baseline and you have no symptoms why are you worrying?!? good god man there is nothing wrong with you...
 
LOL. so you did cycles before 20 and NOW its a big deal? Just go to the doc, play dumb and take treatment. Either that or self medicate and jack urself up, losing countless amounts of money.

Do the right thing, ive seen patients all the time try to self medicate themselves. I had one guy this one time walk into a pharmacy i was working at and offered me 20 dollars for some penicillin because he thought he had an infection. He had the flu!
 
monsterbox said:
lastest testosterone

Total T - 313 (scale to 857)
Free T - 9.7 (scale to 27)
SHBG - 19
LH - 1.5
FSH - 2.7

Hmmmm....wtf does this mean. Its been 5 months since Ive used any kind of PH. I feel the same emotionally/physically/sexually as I did 3 years ago.

On toremifene my LH was 4.2 and my Total was 466. That was months ago...why is my LH falling down to 1.5. Past 3 months my total T is in the 300's. Something is wrong with my pituitary function.

Based on my calculations, if at 1.5 my total T is 313 and at 4.2 total = 466. Then if my LH was constantly around 4-5 which is normal, my total t would be around 500, meaning that the rest is Primary, and related to my varicocele.

So, First I need to attack the pituitary problem with endocrinologists and then fix the varicocele to allow Testosterone response to raise with LH.
Click to expand...


My test levels are similar to yours and i think ive PM'd you about my situation before but i just wanted to compare your situation to mine. You say that your test was only 466 while on torem? When i found out i had low test levels i think they were like 270ish and i did clomid at 25mg and in a month my testosterone levels were flagged for being too high at almost 1200. however after the clomid in a month they were in the 300s.

If torem didn't bring your test level over 500 then maybe the problem is with your hypothalamus and you should try HCG therapy.
 
monsterbox said:
you guys are out of your damn mind period.


I HAVE symptoms of low-t! I HAVE a varicocele. My symptoms are just not severe as someone with even lower levels. I also SERIOUSLY doubt its from steroids, I've run freaking havoc and PPlex over the course of a year with 4 months in between and full pcts. I told you guys I feel the same as I did BEFORE pro-hormones. THIS IS MORE THAN LIKELY MY BASELINE.
Click to expand...

What are your symptoms of low t? You have a sex drive, you put on muscle.. heres what medically they consider symptoms

A lack of energy;
Low libido (sex drive);
Depression;
Irritability;
Fatigue;
Postural problems;
Increased blood pressure;
Loss of muscle;
You exercise consistently but can't add any lean muscle;
Loss of muscular strength;
Loss of muscular endurance;
Physical height reduction;
Your erections are not "rock hard";
Sleep disorders.
Click to expand...

and really if anyone sounds out of their mind its you at this point. I think you'd get better results talking to a psychiatric counselor than an endo at this point. You are stressing over raw numbers that are inside of normal range, and over what might happen 10 or 20 years from now. Breathe deep, relax, stop stressing over a number.
 
NEWS:

Sperm Count = 2.8 million (40-120 million) 55% mobility

Visited Dr. John Crisler yesterday

- Prescribed 10weeks of 25mg/day Clomiphene Citrate in attempt to raise LH for long period of time.

-Ordered a Reihn's test to see 24 hour urine analysis of testosterone production


Will definitely be getting the surgery for fertility issues now. Varicocelectomy or embolization?
 
Why are you still posting? Incase you havent noticed most people think you need a shrink not clomid right now...
 
Random181 said:
Why are you still posting? Incase you havent noticed most people think you need a shrink not clomid right now...
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Dude, why are you still posting? If you don't like his thread stop visiting it. Fact is this dude has low-normal test, which is abnormal for his age and very low sperm count. And has a varicocele. If you do not have any valuable information to post, then just stay the **** out of the conversation.
 
MuscleBound1337 said:
Dude, why are you still posting? If you don't like his thread stop visiting it. Fact is this dude has low-normal test, which is abnormal for his age and very low sperm count. And has a varicocele. If you do not have any valuable information to post, then just stay the **** out of the conversation.
Click to expand...

Fact is the kid has no symptoms of low test bar the varicocele, that needs treating with an op not ****in clomid, kids like this are why the government wants to ban pro hormones so excuse me if I am slightly pissed, jeese if you really must post this post this utter shite put it on another non bodybuilding board threads like this are the perfect excuse the FDA needs for another ban...
 
This is not just a bodybuilding forum. Many people post here who are on HRT and do not bodybuild. Dr. John Crisler specializes in this field so if he thinks clomid has a chance of working, why wouldn't he try to fix his issue? Even if he was born that way, thats no justification for leaving it alone. People are born with medical conditions. Do we not give diabetics insulin? Having a higher normal test level will decrease his risk of cardiovascular disease further along in his life. Dr Crisler is one of the most experienced in his field and I'm sure monsterbox is getting the appropriate treatment.

I don't want to ruin the thread with arguing about whether or not he should seek treatment, so i'm going to leave it at that.
 
Random181 said:
Fact is the kid has no symptoms of low test bar the varicocele, that needs treating with an op not ****in clomid, kids like this are why the government wants to ban pro hormones so excuse me if I am slightly pissed, jeese if you really must post this post this utter shite put it on another non bodybuilding board threads like this are the perfect excuse the FDA needs for another ban...
Click to expand...

your an ignorant idiot period.

my low T and infertility are not related to PH. Crisler believed this himself.
 
Random181 said:
I am not the one hopping on TRT and going to a doctor for low T with no symptoms- nough said
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you are extremely inconclusive with your argument and are supporting it with the wrong facts.

I DO have symptoms of low-T. They might not be life threatening, but they do affect my quality of life.

So I guess your considering a sperm count of 2.8million/dl as normal then as well right? An LH at the extremely low end of the range must be normal too..

Its funny how you know more than arguably the best doctor in the world of this field, Doctor John Crisler, who explained to me that even if my symptoms were not very noticable, I would have hidden problems like bone loss, cognitive impairment, etc with T levels already this low for my age. He also stressed thats is ABSOLUTELY necessary to address this low level at an age of 20 years old as "ABNORMAL." Its not about symptoms alone its about preventative degredation of your body. Having levels in the 300's leads to levels much lower in mid-life ages.

I am not "jumping" on TRT. I was presribed 10 weeks of Clomiphene Citreate to stimulate my pituitary gland so that we can determine how much of this issue is Secondary or Primary. Please leave my thread as*hole.
 
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