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Shaddow vs. T-Roid & P-Plex

TimberLakers said:
Jesus. I can see myself going to failure on that exercise and eating that bar with my front teeth.
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We used to do diamond pushups for baseball in high school, only we'd progress by doing them with our hands closer and closer to our feet. Eventually your hands would be like a foot or so in front of your feet and you'd bang them out like that. This one newb on our team was doing them for the first time and tried showing off. He got like 4 or 5, then went down for another rep and just dropped face first onto the tile floor. Broke 2 teeth, blood everywhere... LOL. It was great. Invalid Link Removed
 
shaddow said:
Hey, Mullet, did you just go up in weight? :D
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I never update my stats, as I honestly have not weighed myself since last summer. I was at the school the other day training a friend, and he asked me to hop on the scale. I was fully clothed with one meal in me, and it said 201.5. So, I am rounding that down to 197.
 
Oh! Here's one more relevant thing I keep forgetting to mention.

Acne.

I usually break out a bit on cycle. Back, shoulders, chest, a few on my arms and torso, maybe a couple on my thighs...

About a week into this my gf was telling me it looked like I had a really light rash on my back. Just a little splotch, and they looked like little tiny pin pricks. They've gotta be tiny cuz I can't even see them in the mirror. I got one minor zit on my forehead last week (which may or may not have been from the anabolics; my skin is NOT perfect), but that is it. Nothing else. As much as I've been sweating at night, I was expecting to be a pimply mess. Even test boosters usually cause me to break out. Hell, the "rash" I have on my back might even be from running divanyl right before my cycle.

I have been using java lather on this cycle, which I'd not done before, but I don't think that's keeping acne from forming cuz I haven't used it on my face and my face hasn't really broken out at all. I was expecting some nasty ones on my back and chest like I usually get, so things have definitely been pleasant in that regard.
 
shaddow said:
Oh! Here's one more relevant thing I keep forgetting to mention.

Acne.

I usually break out a bit on cycle. Back, shoulders, chest, a few on my arms and torso, maybe a couple on my thighs...

About a week into this my gf was telling me it looked like I had a really light rash on my back. Just a little splotch, and they looked like little tiny pin pricks. They've gotta be tiny cuz I can't even see them in the mirror. I got one minor zit on my forehead last week (which may or may not have been from the anabolics; my skin is NOT perfect), but that is it. Nothing else. As much as I've been sweating at night, I was expecting to be a pimply mess. Even test boosters usually cause me to break out. Hell, the "rash" I have on my back might even be from running divanyl right before my cycle.

I have been using java lather on this cycle, which I'd not done before, but I don't think that's keeping acne from forming cuz I haven't used it on my face and my face hasn't really broken out at all. I was expecting some nasty ones on my back and chest like I usually get, so things have definitely been pleasant in that regard.
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If you break out, invest in some Tersaseptic which contains .5% Triclosan, a topical anti-bacterial agent. "Acne" is actually a blanket term which may refer to a wide-range of akin-conditions, ranging from comedonal [blackheads] to papulo-pustal [inflammatory] and cystic acne. People react differently in regard to on-cycle acne, for a wide-range of factors: presence of hereditary skin conditions, and the sensitivity of the sebaceous glands to androgen stimulation, for example. This being said, Tersaseptic is beneficial as it eliminates the bacterial infections which may conglomerate in in the over-stimulated follicles [due to the activity of the sebaceous glands]. While it will not treat the root cause [in most cases, cessation of the androgen in conjunction with an antibiotic such as clindamycin is necessary] it will certainly help to ameliorate some of the symptoms.

I would consider combining that with a 2.5% Benzyl Peroxide solution and an agent which may increase transport. I should make an Acne Prevention Thread.
 
Your weight gain experience is similar to mine while on P-Plex and Xtreme Tren. I gained around 9lbs the first 2 weeks and then only gained 2 more lbs the remaining 3. The strength continued to go up and I kept leaning out.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
If you break out, invest in some Tersaseptic which contains .5% Triclosan, a topical anti-bacterial agent. "Acne" is actually a blanket term which may refer to a wide-range of akin-conditions, ranging from comedonal [blackheads] to papulo-pustal [inflammatory] and cystic acne. People react differently in regard to on-cycle acne, for a wide-range of factors: presence of hereditary skin conditions, and the sensitivity of the sebaceous glands to androgen stimulation, for example. This being said, Tersaseptic is beneficial as it eliminates the bacterial infections which may conglomerate in in the over-stimulated follicles [due to the activity of the sebaceous glands]. While it will not treat the root cause [in most cases, cessation of the androgen in conjunction with an antibiotic such as clindamycin is necessary] it will certainly help to ameliorate some of the symptoms.

I would consider combining that with a 2.5% Benzyl Peroxide solution and an agent which may increase transport. I should make an Acne Prevention Thread.
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Appreciate the advice (which I luckily won't need to follow at the moment :D), and I think that would make a great thread! :)
 
Silver3CSRT8 said:
Your weight gain experience is similar to mine while on P-Plex and Xtreme Tren. I gained around 9lbs the first 2 weeks and then only gained 2 more lbs the remaining 3. The strength continued to go up and I kept leaning out.
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Yeah, ~15lbs in the first two weeks, and then it all kinda came to a halt. At least my appetite isn't as suppressed as it was the 3rd week when I was still @ 20mg P-Plex. I think the extra P-Plex definitely helped to counter that.

Only thing I can think of is it must be time for me to go eat some more food!! :food:
 
Man you are killn this cycle! :head:
 
shaddow said:
14.8lbs, but I've been at ~+14lbs since like day 15, and today was day 26. My weight gains just kinda stopped after the two week mark. :dunno:
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Same here, but 17 pounds even, so far. My weight has increased more during weeks 2 and 3, and i'm beginning week 4 now. Is your strength still increasing?
 
jasonkkk said:
Same here, but 17 pounds even, so far. My weight has increased more during weeks 2 and 3, and i'm beginning week 4 now. Is your strength still increasing?
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Strength is still increasing, but who knows how much I can attribute to the anabolics and how much credit goes simply to progress and getting used to my new routine.
 
I am sooooooooooooooo ****ing frustrated with my insomnia. It is driving me batshit insane. I think I slept 2 hours last night, then drugged myself for another 2 hours of sleep early this morning. I have to go to the gym early today cuz I have class tonight, and I am just not feeling it. I wanna curl up into a ball and go lay in bed for like 6 hours, but who knows if I'd even be able to sleep. Even the G that I normally use to knock myself out for several hours isn't working like it normally does. I've been having to take 2x my normal dose cuz the regular dose isn't doing anything for me, and with a higher dose I am rebounding quicker and waking up after like 2 hours. I'm guessing that maybe the T-Roid has some sort of effect on dopamine which is causing me to stay mentally awake when my body has already physically crashed. This is ****ing driving me absolutely crazy. Grrrrrrrr....


I've been playing with scenarios in my head, and I'm starting to wonder what would have happened if I would have stopped the P-Plex & T-Roid after 2 weeks, gone into a quick 2 week PCT, then run another 2 weeks of P-Plex & T-Roid, and end it with a second 2 week PCT. I probably would have lost a couple pounds during my first PCT, but I didn't really feel that suppressed, and I feel that with a good PCT, test boosters, etc., I would have been able to maintain most of it. Then on my second 2-week run, what would have happened?? Would I have continued gaining like I did during my first 2-weeks on? Would that have helped me with my sleep issues?

Just some things I've been thinking about...
 
I think we are just susceptable to the sleeplessness - despite the compound. You just have to limit your time on cycle and the number of cycles to avoid the sleep issues. I am NOT looking forward to being tired and irritable and not sleeping, but I am looking forward to another 5 pounds of meat.
 
TimberLakers said:
I think we are just susceptable to the sleeplessness - despite the compound. You just have to limit your time on cycle and the number of cycles to avoid the sleep issues. I am NOT looking forward to being tired and irritable and not sleeping, but I am looking forward to another 5 pounds of meat.
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No, but see, that's the thing. I've NEVER experienced this problem on cycle before. Not once. Lethargy, yes. Insomnia, no. 4AD, 1-test, 1AD, 19-nor, M1T, m5aa, mdht... Nothing. I always slept fine.

I'm not exactly an expert in biology or chemistry, but if G isn't knocking me out like it usually does the only conclusion that [my ignorant ass] can draw is that excess dopamine is coming into play somehow. I just looked on wikipedia.

Dopamine is a neurotransmitter occurring in a wide variety of animals, including both vertebrates and invertebrates. In the brain, this phenethylamine functions as a neurotransmitter, activating the five types of dopamine receptors — D1, D2, D3, D4 and D5, and their variants. Dopamine is produced in several areas of the brain, including the substantia nigra and the ventral tegmental area.[1] Dopamine is also a neurohormone released by the hypothalamus. Its main function as a hormone is to inhibit the release of prolactin from the anterior lobe of the pituitary.
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If I'm taking a hormone that has potential prolactin side effects, it makes sense to me that dopamine is somehow coming into play. Lowered dopamine levels can cause lethargy. Increased dopamine levels can cause insomnia, or wake you straight up from sleep (as is the case with rebounding after passing out from high doses of GHB).

Again, I'm no expert (where's Mullet? He might have a better understanding of this), but I think that, going forward, it's in my best interest to avoid compounds with prolactin sides.
 
natty texan said:
i'm a little behind in this, but have you tried something like x-dreams or nocturnabol?
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Actually, I have taken a few X-Dreams samples as well as ZMA, but it's not helping. GHB/GBL should blow them both out of the water though, but it's just not working like it normally does for me.
 
What about double dosing Tylenol PM? Not on a daily basis, but for emergencies, say a night where you only got 2 hours of sleep :684:
 
VolcomX311 said:
What about double dosing Tylenol PM? Not on a daily basis, but for emergencies, say a night where you only got 2 hours of sleep :684:
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I keep saying anytime anyone brings this up...DIPHENHYDRAMINE!...It's pointless and destructive to take the acetaminophen, especially on cycle, when all you need is the sleep aid.

Just pick up some diphenhydramine, take 100mg 30-60mins before bed, and you'll be set.
 
Day 27: Wednesday, April 22
Weight: 203.2 (+14.8)

Workout #12 - B3

Wide-grip preacher curls: 2 warm-ups @ 45x18, 65x12
Working set with rest-pauses: 95x7 +2 +1

+10 lbs on my working set. Maaaaaan, the rest-pauses on these absolutely kill my forearms. I mean deep in the bone - my ulna or radius. I don't know which one. But it hurts.

BB shrugs: 2 warm-ups @ 225x18, 315x12
Working set with rest-pauses: 405x10 +5 +4

Up 3 reps on these.

Leg press calf press: 2 warm-ups @ 160x12, 200x10
Working set with rest-pauses: 250x9

I did Smith calf raises last time around, but as a whole my B3 workout was just way too much load on my spine, so I decided to switch to leg press calf presses instead. The plates on the machine actually said "16", "20" and "25". I'm assuming they're 10 lb plates? But I maxed out the machine, and 250 is pretty weak for a maximum weight on a leg press machine, so who knows.

Sumo deadlifts: 2 warm ups @ 135x18, 225x4 - Stopped.
Working set: ****!

Same thing as last time. ****, ****, ****! I just can't do deadlifts after BB shrugs. Compressing my spine before doing deads is just a sure fire way to mess up my lumbar. I think I may have to end up tossing heavy deads eventually. As much as I'd like to deadlift 400+ pounds, my lumbar just doesn't agree with me.

Sled Press: 2 warm-ups @ 360x18, 540x12
Working set: 800x10
Widowmaker: 630x20

Last time I did rest-pauses on these cuz I'm a dumbass, but today I did widows and maaaaan. +80lbs on my working set (and more reps), and I was pretty impressed with my ability to push it on that widowmaker @ 630 at the end. My right knee felt a little weird at first, but I got over it quickly and overall my legs felt very strong today.

Notes:
I already mentioned my shitty sleep last night. I dosed my anabolics earlier today than normal; I think my last dose was @ 1pm. I guess we'll see if that makes a difference with my sleep. I'm really frustrated with my inability to do deadlifts, but I guess that's the price you pay for breaking your back. I may still do deads, but just do them lighter than usual and focus on strict form. I had more luck doing that way when I first started doing them.

My diet has been absolute **** today, but I'm tired and frustrated, and I just got back from a 3.5 hour class, and I don't even care about my scale weight right now. I just wanna sleep. I may try the diphenhydramine as was suggested. The only reason I haven't done that is it's always made me groggy/medicine head-feeling the next day, but I don't care anymore. I'd rather be groggy after waking up than not be able to fall asleep in the first place.
 
I've taken a small step back from heavy ass deads. I make my working set 315 these days, and sometimes go to 365... 425, I can probably still pull, and its awesome, but I don't see the added benefit.

Your sled press at 630 (widow) is gnarly.

I'd give IC's suggestion of diphenhydramine a try as you indicated. He seems to love it - and he's had experience there... I'll likely get a small bottle myself to see if it helps me should I encounter sleeplessness (which I no doubt will). Just hoping I can find it in the NY drugstores.
 
Try some somatophen.. it has helped me get some great sleep in the past while on cycle. I believe it will kill off a lot of the strange dreams that Tren causes and maybe even the night sweats.
 
TimberLakers said:
Also - thinking if you do slow recomp - you can totally stay above 200. :)
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It's funny, I was actually beginning to question whether or not I'll even run a cut this summer. Maybe just a slow recomp like you're saying.

Last summer I decided to cut because I had been a fat ass for like 2 years running and hadn't seen my abs that entire time. It was more of a "can I even do it?" sort of thing than anything else. My goal was to get as ripped as possible, and I got down to ~5%. I proved to myself I could do it. I'm sure I could do it again if I wanted to. But here's the thing. I can already see my upper 4 abs and I can make out the lower 2. I have a little bit of a tire going, but I've been bulking for like 8 months straight in order to gain mass.

And that's the thing. I'm enjoying the added mass. And I wanna be even bigger. Who cares if I'm not ripped to the bone this summer. I'm not trying to impress anyone. I have a gf this time around. She likes my added mass. I'd eventually like to be ~220 and ripped, but I obviously can't do that right now, so why go and risk losing some hard-earned muscle mass? I think I'm throwing the all out cut out the window this summer and I'll just run with the increased size. **** it.
 
Recomping is nice. Just taper your cals down a bit; readjust things to tighten up...That tire will melt off relatively easy without dropping any mass. It's not too hard to cut your fat without digging into muscle tissue; you just have to be careful.
 
Ok, guys, here's the deal.

Last night I was absolutely certain I'd be able to pass out on my own. I was sooooo freaking tired. I laid down @ about midnight with the gf, and just watched her sleep until about 2 in the morning. Went into the cabinet and found some Benadryl and ate 3 of them (I'll look into the diphenhydramine later today). I managed to fall asleep around 3 until about 7 when the gf left for work. I took some G around 7:30 and passed out for another 2-2.5 hours.

Sooooooo.

I've made up my mind. I can't do this any longer. I'm tired. I'm sick of the insomnia. I'm tired of drugging myself. I feel like a freaking zombie.

I went through my pills, and this is how the rest of this cycle is going down. Today is the last day of week 4. I was supposed to end the P-Plex after today and carry on with the T-Roid solo. **** that. I have EXACTLY enough pills left in my open bottles to run the P-Plex @ 50mg for 4 more days along with 90mg of T-Roid. So that's what I'm gonna do. 4 more days of this including today, then I'm jumping into PCT. That'll leave me one extra full bottle of both T-Roid & P-Plex in case I wanna try a 2-on-2-off 2-on-2-off protocol at some point in the future. But for now, I just can't take this **** anymore.

I feel like I have enough goodies lined up for my PCT that I should be able to keep the weight and strength gains going. On top of my planned PCT, I also have a bottle of Prime and AP that I may throw in the mix. Or maybe I'll just do that after my PCT. Guess I've only got a few days to decide... But this is where I stand. I don't think I've ever looked forward to ending a cycle before this one.

Thanks everyone for the continued support. I'll of course keep this log going through PCT and keep logging my progress.
 
You made some AMAZING progress man! So I say this cycle was a success! You shouldn't feel bad about having to end it early at all. You toughed it out and stayed on this long. Now its time to relax. I salute you soldier :box:
 
Shaddow, most people only run M-Drol for 3 weeks and typically gain around the weight that you have with this stack. You have acomplished a ton during this cycle so be satisfied with it and work to keep it during PCT. Hopefully the rest will come back immediately after stopping the cycle.
 
Insomnia + pushing your body is supremely taxing on the system. It was all downhill for me when I had that one night of insomnia then a triple workout in the ensuing morning.

Get'cho REM's on :684:
 
VolcomX311 said:
Insomnia + pushing your body is supremely taxing on the system. It was all downhill for me when I had that one night of insomnia then a triple workout in the ensuing morning.

Get'cho REM's on :684:
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I agree wholeheartedly. One night can put your body into a sleep deficit that takes days of solid sleep and rest to recover from.

Have you taken a few days off of training, shaddow? I would suggest resting the next three to four days, and note if your sleep improves toward the end of your rest schedule. You may find an "unwinding" of the CNS is necessary. (I will not become overly technical with the reasons why here.)
 
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