Does islam support terrorism?

[Zero V]

Yep...we've been over this before and you keep insisting that infants somehow committed sins that justified killing them.

Yet, you still refuse to give an example (sorry OP for derailing your thread).

Found a nice tidbit, yeah it is on the net. But it is an explanation for the simple.

"The Western concept of the "chivalric code," in which only soldiers fight and die in warfare, is both recent and unbiblical. If God is judging a nation because of its wickedness, then the women are equally under God's judgment because of their involvement in sexual sins, child sacrifice and occultism.

The children's death is a problem primarily to the person who sees this life as the only life one has. Since God saves the child who dies before the "age of accountability" (see 2 Sam. 12:23), and since the children raised in such a depraved culture would probably join in that depravity, many children my have actually been rescued from eternal death.

NOTE: It is important not to extrapolate this principle to our own day and argue that it is better for children to be aborted. God alone reserves the prerogative to make such decisions.

The animals were killed and the property was burned so that Israel could not profit materially from the conquest (see above). Furthermore, some of the inanimate property could be potentially defiling since it communicated the values of a corrupt culture (Josh. 6:18)."

Refuse an example of what?

EDIT: which goes with the ideal I am saying about people putting too much value on this life.

 

[dsade]

Ahh...so you inflict YOUR religious beliefs on others and have no problem slaughtering women and children for what you perceive to be sins.

very noble religion.

/cuckoo


NOTE: Zero has no problem with abortions, then

 

[Zero V]

Ahh...so you inflict YOUR religious beliefs on others and have no problem slaughtering women and children for what you perceive to be sins.

very noble religion.

/cuckoo

Actually...this was the Jews....so are you onto the Jew bashing now?

I believe an earlier post in this thread made good sense.... If we could go back and tally how many Christians have killed people in the belief since Christ died. And tally how many Christians were tortured and murdered for what we believe....the numbers are quite lop sided, and not in our favor. China right now, Christians are persecuted, Korea, they are executed, Africa they are captured and executed or bartered. Usually cutting off some small villages from their sources of medical aid.

I love you dsade.

 

[dsade]

Actually...this was the Jews....so are you onto the Jew bashing now?

I believe an earlier post in this thread made good sense.... If we could go back and tally how many Christians have killed people in the belief since Christ died. And tally how many Christians were tortured and murdered for what we believe....the numbers are quite lop sided, and not in our favor. China right now, Christians are persecuted, Korea, they are executed, Africa they are captured and executed or bartered. Usually cutting off some small villages from their sources of medical aid.

I love you dsade.

Tell it to the millions that were killed and tortured by the christians to make them convert.

I can't say I love you, too...but you're damn sexy.

 

[Zero V]

Tell it to the millions that were killed and tortured by the christians to make them convert.

I can't say I love you, too...but you're damn sexy.

can you provide death certificates plz ^.^

But on a serious note, just because a soldier was part of a "crusading" army doesnt meant they slaughtered innocents. Every one of them that killed on the actual battlefield cant be blamed for doing anything other than killing an enemy soldier. In fact considering it was all sanctioned by the Catholics, its hard to draw as rigid as lines as you try. We dont anwser to the Pope, and I would have then. Which means I would have been killed for the beliefs I have... so...

You know certain Christians were killed during this time too?

Alot of what each portion of the Crusading armies did depended on the country from which they came from. This stems also into being French, or English, or a Spaniard, etc.

In a sense during this time it was like democracy and communism. The western ideals were used to top a growing eastern ideal.

I blame the Pope.

 

[nopeace]

Here is my take on "terrorism"

First we must learn why terrorism exist. Terrorism exist because the United States foreign policy in the middle east. Our unwavering support for the inhumane Israelis, invading and bombing countries. "stealing" their resources, an example being the CIA-overthrow of the Democratic Iranian Prime Minister after he decided he was going to nationalize Iran's oil fields instead of letting British Petroleum take over. (same reason we're after hugo chavez).

Terrorism is not about fighting Christianity or Freedom as we're told by the media that is a complete lie. Terrorism is a response to the US's own irresponsible actions in the ares. The US is the biggest hypocrites when it comes to "spreading democracy" and fighting terror. We have supported and trained plenty of "terrorist" worldwide, Central America, Iran, South America etc.

Does Islam support terrorism? No, anyone on the other end of US foreign policy would hate the US. Islam is a recruiting tool, similar to how public officials call the war in Iraq "a task from God" (palin).

 

[nopeace]

Religion is the biggest problem with the world and has only brought death. Plenty of brain washing going on. There must always be separation of church and state because then you have ministers supporting Presidential Candidates.

Starting with:
Islam
Christianity
Judism

 

[Red Dog]

Terrorism exist because the United States foreign policy in the middle east.

You need to be more precise about this -- terrorism has been practiced throughout modern history by multiple groups having little to nothing to do with the US.

Our unwavering support for the inhumane Israelis, invading and bombing countries.

Hey, this is a good way to piss off a ton of people -- props on the extreme overgeneralizing and blatant ethnic/nationality prejudice though.

An example being the CIA-overthrow of the Democratic Iranian Prime Minister after he decided he was going to nationalize Iran's oil fields instead of letting British Petroleum take over. (same reason we're after hugo chavez).

Right -- it probably has nothing to do with the fact that Chavez is a corrupt, anti-American tyrant who supports terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas and repeatedly identifies our former President as the Devil.

Terrorism is not about fighting Christianity or Freedom as we're told by the media that is a complete lie. Terrorism is a response to the US's own irresponsible actions in the ares.

You're right -- all they want is for us to apologize and leave them alone -- they take no pleasure in slaughtering domestic non-militant American citizens (including women and children).. what does this quote mean then?

"The pieces of the bodies of infidels were flying like dust particles. If you would have seen it with your own eyes, you would have been very pleased, and your heart would have been filled with joy" - Bin Laden

Hmmm..

Islam is a recruiting tool, similar to how public officials call the war in Iraq "a task from God" (palin).

So the "recruiters" just use Islam to get people to buy into their scheme against America, but what they really want to achieve is .... what? Payback in the form of an endless cycle of murdering innocent civilians? To punish America because these righteous leaders just have such admirable and highly held morals that they feel the best retribution is murder and unrelenting hate towards everything Western?

BTW, I'm assuming you aren't American -- why would you be if all the US does is make international blunders and piss everybody off? It's all our fault, so there's no way someone as enlightened as yourself would continue to be a part of this awful nation right? Don't like our foreign policy? Don't like what America does? There's the door buddy -- how about you take your anti-American rhetoric and that whole "we brought it on ourselves" bullshit justifications for terrorism and GTFO.

 

[BodyWizard]

Depends on the interpretation but considering my own personal studies in this area, especially a concentration in western civ, there isn't anything within the Christian belief system that encourages conversion by the sword. A few snippets here and there doesn't override an entire creed.

Agreed: "kill them all, and let God sort it out" is NOT in the Bible...'course you wouldn't know that, listening to some people.

 

[BodyWizard]

can you provide death certificates plz ^.^

But on a serious note, just because a soldier was part of a "crusading" army doesnt meant they slaughtered innocents. Every one of them that killed on the actual battlefield cant be blamed for doing anything other than killing an enemy soldier. In fact considering it was all sanctioned by the Catholics, its hard to draw as rigid as lines as you try. We dont anwser to the Pope, and I would have then. Which means I would have been killed for the beliefs I have... so...

You know certain Christians were killed during this time too?

Alot of what each portion of the Crusading armies did depended on the country from which they came from. This stems also into being French, or English, or a Spaniard, etc.

In a sense during this time it was like democracy and communism. The western ideals were used to top a growing eastern ideal.

I blame the Pope.

We can all blame the Papacy (but not every individual Pope) for a lot - but not for your lack of historical grasp. Informed opinons work better. Get some.

 

[BodyWizard]

Central florida is close enough, and no goddamn rain this year. City of Tampa has put in place a "no watering at all" ordinance starting next week. My freakin lawn is going to die.

You still have a lawn?

 

[EasyEJL]

You still have a lawn?

Yeah, i've been spending 80-90 a month on running the sprinklers heavy that one day they let me Maybe if this ban sticks I can get the columbians and mexicans who mow my lawn to stand there for an hour with the garden hoses.

 

[BodyWizard]

I'm not an authority on the subject and I could be mistaken, but I believe the Qur'an suggests Muslims should defend themselves from an "invading force". If you view the Americans or whoever as an invading force, and terrorism as a form of defense, then you could say that Islam supports terrorism (under the right conditions).

Given that our Founders were at least nominally Christian, you'd be able t make the same conclusion about Christianity...if it weren't for the fact that the colonists were as well-armed as as the British forces. Lacking that, I have no doubt that we'd have resorted to whatever means we felt necessary to protect our homes, families, & liberties. Would that make us "bad"?

To the Redcoats, marching in line, firing in ranks & dressed all bright like that, the drab rebels and their dirty tricks of hiding in shadows, firing from the treeline, running away when possible were as bad as terrorists.

 

[nopeace]

You need to be more precise about this -- terrorism has been practiced throughout modern history by multiple groups having little to nothing to do with the US.

Terrorism against the US by Islamic Extremist to be exact. Yes, terrorism has been practiced throughout modern history, in fact the US has an entire college dedicated to that, it's called the "College of the Americas" plenty of tyrants have certificates from there. Especially in Latin America



Hey, this is a good way to piss off a ton of people -- props on the extreme overgeneralizing and blatant ethnic/nationality prejudice though.

Extreme overgeneralizing? A lot of people know of the Israeli lobby here in the United States that keeps much of the news unreported and twisted. Not prejudice, it's basic human rights violations. Destroying Civil Infrastructure, denying access to medical facilities and having the the record for highest UN condemnations doesn't that qualify them as inhumane? Has nothing to do with the aggressors being Jews and the victims being Muslims. Former President Jimmy Carter was called anti-semitic for writing against what he saw in the area.

Invalid Link Removed



Right -- it probably has nothing to do with the fact that Chavez is a corrupt, anti-American tyrant who supports terrorist organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas and repeatedly identifies our former President as the Devil.

In 2002 the CIA supported a failed military coup against Chavez after the Venezuelan people demanded his return (doubt he is a tryrant, stop watching fox). He intended to Nationalize his Oil Production and that is what really pisses off the United States because we want control over it. He has the third largest oil reserves in the world next to Iran. Hamas and Hezbollah again are due to Israels existence in the region. Well Bush invaded a country illegally and Bush literally tried to kill him and take him out of power, so he calls him the Devil just to mock him and show him he still standing. Chavez isn't stupid, he knows the US is going to go after his oil fields that's why he is tightening his ties with Russia, and Purchasing Sukhoi-30MKK's. As far as being corrupt. You need look no further than our own representatives to find corruption.

If Chavez decides to trade his oil in Euro's instead of Dollars. He is gonna wreck the US. Saddam decided to sell oil in Euros and he got invaded. Same goes for Iran.



You're right -- all they want is for us to apologize and leave them alone -- they take no pleasure in slaughtering domestic non-militant American citizens (including women and children).. what does this quote mean then?

"The pieces of the bodies of infidels were flying like dust particles. If you would have seen it with your own eyes, you would have been very pleased, and your heart would have been filled with joy" - Bin Laden

Hmmm..

Bin Laden and his family are extremely close with bush so I wouldn't exactly quote him. After watching the United States slaughter plenty of Civilians in the region you would probably not care if you hurt Americans civilians. That quote was taken from the USS Cole Attack. At any rate he was trained and funded by the CIA, and is probably only serves as the "face" of terrorism.

Should the US apologize? No. Should we leave. Absolutely we have no business there. We are only there as Israel's slave and for oil.



So the "recruiters" just use Islam to get people to buy into their scheme against America, but what they really want to achieve is .... what? Payback in the form of an endless cycle of murdering innocent civilians? To punish America because these righteous leaders just have such admirable and highly held morals that they feel the best retribution is murder and unrelenting hate towards everything Western?

No, Islam is used to promote Anti-American/Anti-Israel sentiment. What jihadist want is to rid the Middle East of the US and Israel. We are building tons of bases there and exploiting their national resources. If China began to install bases and steal our resources wouldn't you fight them?
they don't want to fight us because we are "free" and "prosperous" like the media sells it.

BTW, I'm assuming you aren't American -- why would you be if all the US does is make international blunders and piss everybody off? It's all our fault, so there's no way someone as enlightened as yourself would continue to be a part of this awful nation right? Don't like our foreign policy? Don't like what America does? There's the door buddy -- how about you take your anti-American rhetoric and that whole "we brought it on ourselves" bullshit justifications for terrorism and GTFO.

What justifications do we have to do what we have been doing in the area for many decades? Door swings both ways.


I am American, attempting to understand the world is a lot smarter than buying all the media b.s. on TV. You must believe the US mainstream media even though it's owned by 4 mega corporations. It's not anti-American rhetoric, our actions are in themselves are un-American, overthrowing Democracies, Supporting Dictators and imposing Sanctions on innocent civilians.

You don't seriously think that invading an entire region isn't gonna get you hated? Almost everyone who understand foreign policy agrees, even the CIA calls it Blowblack. I am very much a patriot, and I speak against actions taken by this country because they are un-American. Our military force was never meant to be used as a tool for war-corporatism. I don't support an unconstitutional war.

I suggest you start learning outside Fox news and CNN. Perhaps try understanding why people hate the US. Gore Vidal wrote: Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace. Read it.

Change our Foreign Policy. Get rid of the Israeli lobby in Washington, and we'll have our country back.

 

[nopeace]

Given that our Founders were at least nominally Christian, you'd be able t make the same conclusion about Christianity...if it weren't for the fact that the colonists were as well-armed as as the British forces. Lacking that, I have no doubt that we'd have resorted to whatever means we felt necessary to protect our homes, families, & liberties. Would that make us "bad"?

To the Redcoats, marching in line, firing in ranks & dressed all bright like that, the drab rebels and their dirty tricks of hiding in shadows, firing from the treeline, running away when possible were as bad as terrorists.

No they were more like insurgents.

 

[BodyWizard]

Guerillas, insurgents, terrorists, freedom-fighters, militant fanatics: so much depends on your point-of-view and the assumptions you make. Kinda like the assumptions you make in thinking that gainsaying somehow counters me: you haven't countered me, just contradicted me; if you have a point, make it - or skip it.

 

[EasyEJL]

Guerillas, insurgents, terrorists, freedom-fighters, militant fanatics: so much depends on your point-of-view and the assumptions you make.

perfect example is the Palestinians.

 

[Zero V]

We can all blame the Papacy (but not every individual Pope) for a lot - but not for your lack of historical grasp. Informed opinons work better. Get some.

I am actually quite informed on history. The blame the pope bit was humor. Next time I will spell it out for those who need guidance...

During the revolutionary war, Americans were pretty much rebels. We were revolting.

Good and evil, right and wrong, just and unjust, are defendant upon the viewers eye. I dont think a terrorist is evil per say, just highly misguided. People who take a religion and abuse it.

Our country was built by Christians, and that is the reason we became the most powerful nation on earth. Our country in the last 40 ears has been changing, and Christians are no longer in control. Look how we have fallen, farther and farther, in 40 years.

Religion was the best thing to ever happen, considering it centers more people on God. Again every one starts with the people who have died. Again too much value is put on life, especially ones long dead. Without war, we would probably be about 500 years back technology wise. There is no better way to inspire creativity than to put man to work on how to destroy another.

Man will always fight war, and most wars were not religion based. Today our governments *politics* are more of a cult than any perverted cultish religious group. We got crazy politicians working on *world wide cooperation* basically a World Order.

It used to be when a war was fought, the enemy was utterly dismantled so as to not be able to strike back again. As the good man grows soft, we are so worried of a few innocents being harmed, that we will leave 10,000 enemy soldier alone if there are 50 civilians in the way.

The masses are a scary force. Stupid, and uneducated, because of their excessive freedoms.

 

[dsade]

Our country was built by Christians, and that is the reason we became the most powerful nation on earth. Our country in the last 40 ears has been changing, and Christians are no longer in control. Look how we have fallen, farther and farther, in 40 years.
ilians in the way.

Highly debatable, bordering on untrue.

And look around you...the Christians are still in control, don't fool yourself. You just came off of 8 years of Christians in control. The martyr bs gets old.

The majority of bad actions, based solely on statistics, is committed by "christians" in this country, since you are the majority.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I am actually quite informed on history. The blame the pope bit was humor. Next time I will spell it out for those who need guidance...

During the revolutionary war, Americans were pretty much rebels. We were revolting.

Good and evil, right and wrong, just and unjust, are defendant upon the viewers eye. I dont think a terrorist is evil per say, just highly misguided. People who take a religion and abuse it.

Our country was built by Christians, and that is the reason we became the most powerful nation on earth. Our country in the last 40 ears has been changing, and Christians are no longer in control. Look how we have fallen, farther and farther, in 40 years.

Religion was the best thing to ever happen, considering it centers more people on God. Again every one starts with the people who have died. Again too much value is put on life, especially ones long dead. Without war, we would probably be about 500 years back technology wise. There is no better way to inspire creativity than to put man to work on how to destroy another.

Man will always fight war, and most wars were not religion based. Today our governments *politics* are more of a cult than any perverted cultish religious group. We got crazy politicians working on *world wide cooperation* basically a World Order.

It used to be when a war was fought, the enemy was utterly dismantled so as to not be able to strike back again. As the good man grows soft, we are so worried of a few innocents being harmed, that we will leave 10,000 enemy soldier alone if there are 50 civilians in the way.

The masses are a scary force. Stupid, and uneducated, because of their excessive freedoms.

I doubt BodyWizard needs 'guidance', you merely take highly opinionated and uninformed positions; this is something I have expressed before.

 

[BodyWizard]

perfect example is the Palestinians.

Exactly so. So often, the terms we use to describe say as much about our POV & assumptions as they do about who or what we're describing.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Our country was built by Christians, and that is the reason we became the most powerful nation on earth. Our country in the last 40 ears has been changing, and Christians are no longer in control. Look how we have fallen, farther and farther, in 40 years.

Google, "Deist".

Also, much historical evidence suggests that the so-called, "Religionized West" [colonial powers circa fall of the Roman Empire to Enlightenment] was a detriment to science; indeed, the church sought voraciously to obfuscate any knowledge deemed to be blasphemous.

In regard to religion and technology, your point very easily bursts asunder the pressure of an empirio-historical inquiry; in fact, I feel most would claim it is the exact opposite. As a result, Google "The Dark Ages", then "The Enlightenment" and inform us of your findings.

 

[Zero V]

Highly debatable, bordering on untrue.

And look around you...the Christians are still in control, don't fool yourself. You just came off of 8 years of Christians in control. The martyr bs gets old.

The majority of bad actions, based solely on statistics, is committed by "christians" in this country, since you are the majority.

As I stated before, the Label of Christian is easily applied anymore. and many people wear it to get favor with the Christian voters. Christians, as they once were, are not the same. I see a guy walking out of a bar unable to walk with a bimbo, and it is usually a guy claiming to be Christian. Doesnt mean he is because he thinks he is, Christians are made so by their actions. Unless their belief is shown, they are not really Christian.

Bush was a Christian i guess. But he never made the same kind of stands older presidents did.

Google, "Deist".

Also, much historical evidence suggests that the so-called, "Religionized West" [colonial powers circa fall of the Roman Empire to Enlightenment] was a detriment to science; indeed, the church sought voraciously to obfuscate any knowledge deemed to be blasphemous.

In regard to religion and technology, your point very easily bursts asunder the pressure of an empirio-historical inquiry; in fact, I feel most would claim it is the exact opposite. As a result, Google "The Dark Ages", then "The Enlightenment" and inform us of your findings.

Those are the same things as videos made by people saying that the U.S. Government has hidden UFO's IN YOUR BASEMENT!!!! At least when you watch them, it carries the same bland aftertaste.

And about tthe religion and technology. I said WAR enhances it, not religion. Personally I could do without cable TV, games, and even the net. And that is because of my beliefs. I was speaking for War itself. So you go googling and see how major our tech jumps were around the war eras. I know that tech was frowned upon in those times. Then again, technology today just causes the masses to sit on their couch eating their McDee's, growing a third butt cheek, and a 4th chin.

Not everything was invented during war, but many of our modern everyday items, came from originally war based heritage.

and I should start tagging all my posts with the immortal IMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Those are the same things as videos made by people saying that the U.S. Government has hidden UFO's IN YOUR BASEMENT!!!! At least when you watch them, it carries the same bland aftertaste.

What are you speaking about? Did you Google Deist, digesting its implications to the current discussion? The word "Deist" is incredibly important to your view of the United States of America's foundations, particularly considered in regard to it being a "Christian nation".

And about tthe religion and technology. I said WAR enhances it, not religion. Personally I could do without cable TV, games, and even the net. And that is because of my beliefs. I was speaking for War itself. So you go googling and see how major our tech jumps were around the war eras. I know that tech was frowned upon in those times. Then again, technology today just causes the masses to sit on their couch eating their McDee's, growing a third butt cheek, and a 4th chin.

It was a misinterpretation of your [at times] seemingly endless and pointless blathering; my apologies.

I am not being deliberately offensive, but your lack of knowledge precedes and in fact determines the acceptance of your points in these discussions. It is easy to notice when somebody is bullshitting, and you are.

 

[nopeace]

Google, "Deist".

Also, much historical evidence suggests that the so-called, "Religionized West" [colonial powers circa fall of the Roman Empire to Enlightenment] was a detriment to science; indeed, the church sought voraciously to obfuscate any knowledge deemed to be blasphemous.

In regard to religion and technology, your point very easily bursts asunder the pressure of an empirio-historical inquiry; in fact, I feel most would claim it is the exact opposite. As a result, Google "The Dark Ages", then "The Enlightenment" and inform us of your findings.

An example of that would be "creationism" total non-science being used to fight real science.

Christian Fanatics are always way off and way too gullible when it comes world issues.

 

[nopeace]

Guerillas, insurgents, terrorists, freedom-fighters, militant fanatics: so much depends on your point-of-view and the assumptions you make. Kinda like the assumptions you make in thinking that gainsaying somehow counters me: you haven't countered me, just contradicted me; if you have a point, make it - or skip it.

It depends on which side they are on, if the US supports them "freedom fighters" if they oppose US occupation then "insurgents" or "terrorists".

 

[Zero V]

I am not being deliberately offensive

I take no offense. Usually these things are humorous anymore.

But i recognized what you mean by deist now. You mean deism? We have covered that before in a few classes. A cult if you wish. Freemasonry is all over our founding steps you know. But not everyone was included in these undertakings. The accepted way during that time was Christianity. Just as today the freemasons claim to be a club, not a religious organization with the inner circle they have(a dark one at that).

All kinds of groups, commonly thrown together being named the Illuminati have had mischievous hands in the control of the way things go and what happens.

Might as well watch...er...National Treasure. I think it has things like this.

I am a believer that a hidden organization has had its hand on world wide direction for the longest time. I believe some wars were started by them, certain men rose to power through them, and the general people have changed because of them. It is easy to do, like I said about the masses....

I know where your coming from now, but we have another name for it.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

I take no offense. Usually these things are humorous anymore.

But i recognized what you mean by deist now. You mean deism? We have covered that before in a few classes. A cult if you wish. Freemasonry is all over our founding steps you know. But not everyone was included in these undertakings. The accepted way during that time was Christianity. Just as today the freemasons claim to be a club, not a religious organization with the inner circle they have(a dark one at that).

All kinds of groups, commonly thrown together being named the Illuminati have had mischievous hands in the control of the way things go and what happens.

Might as well watch...er...National Treasure. I think it has things like this.

I am a believer that a hidden organization has had its hand on world wide direction for the longest time. I believe some wars were started by them, certain men rose to power through them, and the general people have changed because of them. It is easy to do, like I said about the masses....

I know where your coming from now, but we have another name for it.

Unfortunately, you remain completely in the dark.

Deism is in no way a 'cult', but rather a classically defined skeptical-Agonstic viewpoint on religion - that is, a god or God may exist, but the indefinability of deities is precisely what makes these types of arguments useless.

As I have said before, and say again now, you are greatly uninformed. Google "Deism" and "Discourses on Skepticism" and, please, take a longer and harder look this time. Please.

 

[DEADn]

The conversations my post has generated is really incredible. I think some of you have a hard time keeping on topic. You deviate to things you are angry towards, ie Christianity.

I am mixed opinion with the subject. The more I read the more I find that Islam is to be peaceful but then I read of a time when Mohammed ran people out of his village because they refused to believe in Islam. I asked myself, what was the reason behind that? Just because he couldn't take people who didn't believe they way he did?

I think my paper will deal with Islam not supporting terrorism and go from there. If I have a change of heart, this paper will be done in WORD so I can easily change it. It will be due in about 3 weeks. Oh Boy!

I am amazed that the koran is not there to be read but to be recited. Makesme wonder if these muslims even realize what they are reciting? Are Muslims more robotic in that aspect or not? If so no wonder the extremist shout their Allah phrases.

 

[nopeace]

I take no offense. Usually these things are humorous anymore.

But i recognized what you mean by deist now. You mean deism? We have covered that before in a few classes. A cult if you wish. Freemasonry is all over our founding steps you know. But not everyone was included in these undertakings. The accepted way during that time was Christianity. Just as today the freemasons claim to be a club, not a religious organization with the inner circle they have(a dark one at that).

All kinds of groups, commonly thrown together being named the Illuminati have had mischievous hands in the control of the way things go and what happens.

Might as well watch...er...National Treasure. I think it has things like this.

I am a believer that a hidden organization has had its hand on world wide direction for the longest time. I believe some wars were started by them, certain men rose to power through them, and the general people have changed because of them. It is easy to do, like I said about the masses....

I know where your coming from now, but we have another name for it.

I agree, given the status of our Government and the direction the world seems to be heading, I do believe there are other forces at work dictating the future of the world.

The U.S. was officially sold out in 1913 when they signed the Federal Reserve Act.

I also support, that Illuminati who were tied into the Banking cartels started many wars because they were lending money to both sides. I firmly believe they were behind the Bolshevik Revolution after the Czar of Russia decided he was not going to have a central bank. Documents show many "donations" made to the rebellion by banking interests. Some even believe communist Russia was the first attempt at a Zionist state see as how only 6 members of the parliament weren't jewish.

But who knows not enough people are open to those ideas.

 

[dsade]

The conversations my post has generated is really incredible. I think some of you have a hard time keeping on topic. You deviate to things you are angry towards, ie Christianity.

I am mixed opinion with the subject. The more I read the more I find that Islam is to be peaceful but then I read of a time when Mohammed ran people out of his village because they refused to believe in Islam. I asked myself, what was the reason behind that? Just because he couldn't take people who didn't believe they way he did?

Welcome to the techniques of people that choose to gain power over others by this method. We all seek to gain an expansion of power, some by trade, some by tyrannym, some by deception. Most of the big religions use a blend of tyranny and deception for one goal only - expansion of THEIR own power. Bow to my god, whom I claim special knowledge of, and you bow to me. QED.

I am amazed that the koran is not there to be read but to be recited. Makesme wonder if these muslims even realize what they are reciting? Are Muslims more robotic in that aspect or not? If so no wonder the extremist shout their Allah phrases.

A lie repeated thousands of times, unquestioningly, can take on the ring of truth to those that do it.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

A lie repeated thousands of times, unquestioningly, can take on the ring of truth to those that do it.

Its called politics.

 

[Zero V]

The conversations my post has generated is really incredible. I think some of you have a hard time keeping on topic. You deviate to things you are angry towards, ie Christianity.

I am mixed opinion with the subject. The more I read the more I find that Islam is to be peaceful but then I read of a time when Mohammed ran people out of his village because they refused to believe in Islam. I asked myself, what was the reason behind that? Just because he couldn't take people who didn't believe they way he did?

I think my paper will deal with Islam not supporting terrorism and go from there. If I have a change of heart, this paper will be done in WORD so I can easily change it. It will be due in about 3 weeks. Oh Boy!

I am amazed that the koran is not there to be read but to be recited. Makesme wonder if these muslims even realize what they are reciting? Are Muslims more robotic in that aspect or not? If so no wonder the extremist shout their Allah phrases.

sry deadon. This tends to happen. The board has splits on beliefs. I tried avoiding it by asking people to PM disputes, but they like to go at it or something.

Both sides are dedicated to their own views, so really its just the same thing every time, with the thread eventually ending in people losing interest after pretty much every base has been touched 2 or 3 times lol.

 

[EasyEJL]

Its called politics.

or television

 

[Zero V]

A lie repeated thousands of times, unquestioningly, can take on the ring of truth to those that do it.

MUSCLETECH!!!!

 

[DEADn]

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsade
A lie repeated thousands of times, unquestioningly, can take on the ring of truth to those that do it.

MUSCLETECH!!!!

Now that ^^^ is funny!!

That statement I made in the previous post is actually something I can use in this paper.
I am reminded of when I was in pentecostal services, especially 'revivals' and there would be repeating of songs over and over again with just a few words. You see people sway back and forth in worship, supposedly but many times I wonder.
In Islam it almost seems like a blanking of the mind. They repeat these things but do they really know what they are saying? Food for thought.

I do understand the power struggle when it comes to religion. To a point I have given up that struggle until it crosses a certain line. I have my beliefs and they are not Islam. I recognize Islam has 2 branches of people. The crazy people and they 'sane' people. Yet I also recognize that the 10/40 window is the most closed window when it comes to openness to other religions. When other religions come in could this then set the stage for jihad?

 

[Zero V]

I do understand the power struggle when it comes to religion. To a point I have given up that struggle until it crosses a certain line. I have my beliefs and they are not Islam. I recognize Islam has 2 branches of people. The crazy people and they 'sane' people. Yet I also recognize that the 10/40 window is the most closed window when it comes to openness to other religions. When other religions come in could this then set the stage for jihad?

A Jihad was generally used to either retake the holy land, or to prevent someone from invading the holy land. And in general one could be possibly bw called against a "scourge" if you would call it that. It is probably a bit deeper.

The presence of another religion could be seen as a threat. Religion is generally spread by a few people moving to the local, and over time replacing its current beliefs. If Islam felt their beliefs were threatened, a Jihad would be possible.... I think alot of it depends on the size of the situation

 

[DEADn]

In my reading of this subject it appears that early Islam, in its infancy did not advocate jihad as in terrorism type of thing. Muhammad later did acts of terrorism and soon jihad unwittingly became something it was not intended to be but because of the nature of man it was translated to something more.

The problem I am having is finding material in the database the school uses. My professor says we can only use the lousy database for our material. I am looking for the incidents of terrorism that Muhammad arranged. I found one but outside of the database.

My stance on this is that Islam, early does not support terrorism but it is evolved into the use of terrorism through the nature of man and twisting of verses and the advance of its faith.

 

[soseg]

im not reading any replies here so im just going to give my opinion as if im the first post

no.

stupid thread. i hope ur not one of those typical americans we see on tv over here that think anything arab, muslim, or non-american in general is evil and against you

 

[Naseem]

In my reading of this subject it appears that early Islam, in its infancy did not advocate jihad as in terrorism type of thing. Muhammad later did acts of terrorism and soon jihad unwittingly became something it was not intended to be but because of the nature of man it was translated to something more.

The problem I am having is finding material in the database the school uses. My professor says we can only use the lousy database for our material. I am looking for the incidents of terrorism that Muhammad arranged. I found one but outside of the database.

My stance on this is that Islam, early does not support terrorism but it is evolved into the use of terrorism through the nature of man and twisting of verses and the advance of its faith.

if any here care about a muslim who was born raised and still livin in a muslim country , who lived in what you call terrorism up to day!

ISLAM does not support terrorism actually it does condemn it firmly, but there is difefrent between real islam what deviated sects of it doing or believing!

jihad doesnt mean holy war the whole concept of "holy war" is catholic one used 1st by teh pope in the crusades, jihad means to make effort and greater jihad is against yourself fight the evil inside you , self discipline.

i really would like to know wich act of terrorism did muhammed " peace be upon him" do?

 

[dsade]

i really would like to know wich act of terrorism did muhammed " peace be upon him" do?

Does raping little girls count?


/flamewar!!!

 

[Mulletsoldier]

i really would like to know wich act of terrorism did muhammed " peace be upon him" do?

Gave Jesus a noogie: the original sin.

 

[Naseem]

Does raping little girls count?


/flamewar!!!

i thought we could develop the topic sincerely and objectively with no hate !

what do u mean raping little girlS ! , maybe when married aicha at 9 years ?
it was one girl and not plurial , that subject was debated thounds time before ,
you cnat think with 21th century concept of marriage and apply 1400 years ago!
i dont even wanna debate about her age , since there were no civil records, and she was born before islam came , and befor her father abubakr lest mecca to abyssia..etc.

plus it was her parents idea to marry her, marriage before was more for tribe alliances , if he was pedophile since it is chronic disorder why all his othere wife were old even 25 older than him.

virgin marry was 12 year when she had jesus " peace be upon him", and if i remebr well then legal marriage age in the US was 11 or 12 up to 18 19th century any in islam if the girl is sexualy mature at puberty and if she agree it is lawful to marry!

anyway this isnt teh backbone of islam wich is monotheism worship one true god taht ahs the right to be worshipped and not associate any deity with it.

i ma sure that nobdy here heard , about when muhammed peace be upon him saw the jew funeral so stand up and kept silence as mark of respect , wehn the companions askem why that since it is jew he answerd isnt a soul created by god!

 

[Zero V]

He was a raider, as in a corsair. But I am guess the raids are justified?

 

[Naseem]

He was a raider, as in a corsair. But I am guess the raids are justified?

what you talkin about be specific? tell me specific event .

 

[Zero V]

what you talkin about be specific? tell me specific event .

I dont read that book. But mohammad was a raider with a group of nomads, being drifters, no?

You seem to know the stuff, I just know parts of it. Maybe fill in some gaps, so it doesnt look so ruff.

Like Jesus was a carpenter. Their professions.

 

[Naseem]

What does the Qu'ran say about violence? Why does the Noble Quran contain Verses that command the Muslims to fight? See the justified and good reasons behind it.

In regards to Jihad and fighting the hostile enemy, Allah Almighty Made it crystal clear in the Noble Quran about being peaceful to ordinary and peaceful non-Muslims, and being very hostile to the hostile enemy:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"

"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy. (The Noble Quran, 25:68-69)"

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)"

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"

"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"

"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)"

"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"

"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"




The reason for "Jihad" Noble Verses:


The so-called "Jihad" Noble Verses came for specific times and places. They don't apply for all times and everybody! I can't slay you, a non-Muslim, just because you're not a Muslim. The pagan Arabs were very hostile people and only knew the sword as an answer. Many wars were imposed upon the Muslims, and thus, it is only normal and natural to find Noble Verses that deal with these specific hostile situations. But the Message of the Noble Quran is PEACE, as clearly proven in Noble Verses 2:190, 8:61 and 5:28 above.

2- The laws of war in Islam:

Muslims are forbidden from attacking others who do not attack them:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

Fighting in the cause of GOD Almighty those who fight us is what "Jihad" is all about. I can't go and kill a non-Muslim just because he is a non-Muslim. That is absolutely forbidden in Islam:

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Noble Quran 5:32)"

"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy. (The Noble Quran, 25:68-69)"

Jihad can only be declared when the Muslims are attacked. Muslims are not allowed to attach those who do not attack them. And even when war breaks out, if the enemy offers an honest peace, then we should accept it and end the blood shed:

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

And if a treaty of peace was made, then we must honor that treaty to the end:

"Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If God had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then God Hath opened no way for you (to war against them). (The Noble Quran, 4:90)"

"How can there be a league, before God and His Apostle, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God doth love the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 9:7)"

 

[Zero V]

The Noble Quran #:#?? its not divided into books?

 

[dsade]

What does the Qu'ran say about violence? Why does the Noble Quran contain Verses that command the Muslims to fight? See the justified and good reasons behind it.

In regards to Jihad and fighting the hostile enemy, Allah Almighty Made it crystal clear in the Noble Quran about being peaceful to ordinary and peaceful non-Muslims, and being very hostile to the hostile enemy:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"

"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy. (The Noble Quran, 25:68-69)"

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"

"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)"

"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"

"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"

"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"

"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)"

"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"

"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"




The reason for "Jihad" Noble Verses:


The so-called "Jihad" Noble Verses came for specific times and places. They don't apply for all times and everybody! I can't slay you, a non-Muslim, just because you're not a Muslim. The pagan Arabs were very hostile people and only knew the sword as an answer. Many wars were imposed upon the Muslims, and thus, it is only normal and natural to find Noble Verses that deal with these specific hostile situations. But the Message of the Noble Quran is PEACE, as clearly proven in Noble Verses 2:190, 8:61 and 5:28 above.

2- The laws of war in Islam:

Muslims are forbidden from attacking others who do not attack them:

"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"

Fighting in the cause of GOD Almighty those who fight us is what "Jihad" is all about. I can't go and kill a non-Muslim just because he is a non-Muslim. That is absolutely forbidden in Islam:

"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Noble Quran 5:32)"

"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy. (The Noble Quran, 25:68-69)"

Jihad can only be declared when the Muslims are attacked. Muslims are not allowed to attach those who do not attack them. And even when war breaks out, if the enemy offers an honest peace, then we should accept it and end the blood shed:

"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"

And if a treaty of peace was made, then we must honor that treaty to the end:

"Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If God had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then God Hath opened no way for you (to war against them). (The Noble Quran, 4:90)"

"How can there be a league, before God and His Apostle, with the Pagans, except those with whom ye made a treaty near the sacred Mosque? As long as these stand true to you, stand ye true to them: for God doth love the righteous. (The Noble Quran, 9:7)"

The problem lies then as the same problem as ALL ambiguous texts....it's a simple matter of defining everyone else's culture itself as transgression against god or islam or whatever, and you instant justification for murder and terrorism.

This is why MANY muslims do not see the attacks of 911 as murder, but that the victims deserved it because our lifestyle is offensive.

Much like western women being molested for wearing shorts.

 

[Naseem]

I dont read that book. But mohammad was a raider with a group of nomads, being drifters, no?

You seem to know the stuff, I just know parts of it. Maybe fill in some gaps, so it doesnt look so ruff.

Like Jesus was a carpenter. Their professions.

wich book u talkin about it s not about one book when it comes on history as if u said i didnt read the book about ww2.

anyway, dont get me wrong i aint here to jugde u r knowlege about islam !
Muhammed " peace be upon him" was a shepherd and comercial dealer he use to work for his wife , and his tribe too by trading species , sheeps between arabia and syria .