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Supplements to get lean?

enthusedguy07

New member
I am looking to take a prohormone of some sorts and came across Epistane, which I wrote a thread on a couple days ago for feedback. However, I'm concerned this might be too potent for me. What would be a good supplement to take to add some strength and a little size, but mostly get really lean? Would taking 6-Oxo by itself work well or stacking that with something else (HGH or)? I am looking for a safer route than taking a product you really have to pay such close attention. I just don't want to take any stimulants.

I would greatly appreciate any and all advice or opinions.

Thanks.

Derrick
 
You don't want to take stimulants but you're willing to take Epistane (a steroid) and HGH? C'mon man. Getting lean is all about diet.
 
enthusedguy07 said:
I am looking to take a prohormone of some sorts and came across Epistane, which I wrote a thread on a couple days ago for feedback. However, I'm concerned this might be too potent for me. What would be a good supplement to take to add some strength and a little size, but mostly get really lean? Would taking 6-Oxo by itself work well or stacking that with something else (HGH or)? I am looking for a safer route than taking a product you really have to pay such close attention. I just don't want to take any stimulants.

I would greatly appreciate any and all advice or opinions.

Thanks.

Derrick
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Safest route would be a nice solid diet bro....Wats ur diet look like? You would be amazed at what a solid diet could do...
 
ibanezman08 said:
i agree too
diet is the base of your program to get lean.
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^^^. Read and LISTEN. Get your DIET targeted at your goal. And especially for recomping (i.e. gaining muscle mass and strength, whilst staying relatively lean or losing bodyfat) DIET is the KEY component of any plan. Recomping is slow, but it CAN be done, and diet has to be manipulated JUST RIGHT!

OR you could stack a few different products together to get the same effects withOUT turning to hormonals as the answer. For example, IGF-2 stacked with NeoVar Recomped has some awesome recomping effects.

And if your focus is more on getting lean than anything else, why don't you just consider a 'cutting' cycle.
 
Yes ... it takes a long time to adjust your diet to your various needs. This is also true of exercise in general. You have to change and tweak and learn how your body reacts. You need to know yourself inside out and then maybe supps can play a part. You can make gains ...good gains without supplements. You can get as lean as you want without supps. Yes there is a point where they might make it easier but not so much so when your not ready.
 
I appreciate everyone's feedback I truly do. My diet is quite strict. I try to keep my body clean and uncongested, which allows for your food to be processed more efficiently. So the types of foods I intake are lots of fish (salmon, halibut, cod), gluten-free types of carbs like Quinoa and Amaranth, high amounts of Omegas. I try to keep my dairy intake low, so my protein shakes are derived from Hemp and Egg Whites. Hemp is the most balanced and complete protein you can ingest in terms of amino acid makeup, plus its loaded with Omegas and fiber.

Not to make light of what you ALL said, diet is essential, but I wanted to let everyone know my diet is good. I have been working out since I was 18 years old consistently, but I am now 29 and work alot of hours. I used to take a decent amount of stimulants like caffeine and synephrine type products, but do not like the effect they have on my body anymore. I have taken more advanced types of products like 1-AD, 19-Nor and things like that, but again that is not the route I am looking to take at this stage in my life.

My question was I want a product that can help assist me in getting my body even further towards my desired goals. I'm 6'1, 200, 13% bodyfat, and have good size, but I want to get leaner and stronger from where I am currently at. I still hit the gym 5 to 6 times a week doing cardio 3x and weights 3x. Epistane is something that I would have done 5-6 years ago, but I am looking for something easier on the body and more natural.

So Guejsn you think IGF-2 stacked with NeoVar Recomped would be a good alternative? Please let me know if this meets my type of criteria. I would appreciate more comments and opinions. I am a very serious lifter and appreciate everyone's input and time they have given thus far.

Thanks.

Derrick
 
Please read all prior messages before posting. I explained I do not want to take any stimulants at this time. Thanks though for giving your opinion.
 
enthusedguy07 said:
Please read all prior messages before posting. I explained I do not want to take any stimulants at this time. Thanks though for giving your opinion.
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In that case I think recreate would be a good sup for you as there is very little stim. You could still do it by reducing your calorie intake slightly and increasing cardio. I am a real endo and I got down to contest shape diet alone, so I know it can be done with plain hard work.
 
Thanks DreamWeaver. I looked at your recommendation, Recreate, and it looks like it would work very well unfortunately it has enough stimulants in it to make me stay away.

I appreciate your feedback and agree with you that diet alone can net you the results you need. I am looking for something to help assist me. What Guejsn mentioned looks good and I would be interested in hearing what others think about those products (IGF-2 and Neovar Recomp) as well as other ideas for what could be a great addition for someone trying to get leaner while adding some strength.

Thanks again to everyone's advice.
 
DCP and Lean Xtreme would be a potent, NON-stim combination. Throw in some bulk NP CLA softgels for even more effect.
 
dsade said:
DCP and Lean Xtreme would be a potent, NON-stim combination. Throw in some bulk NP CLA softgels for even more effect.
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I've always liked CLA, in addition i megadose Vit-c and water for a good flush. And baby aspirin to peak my vascularity a little bit on top or arginine.

The stim free cut is a tough one, i get where you are coming from with hating the effect at times especially if you work alot. But they make things so much easier especially when your cardio time and other stuff are limited.
 
If you're scared of losing a little size and dont mind a PH I tried furazadrol a little while back. Leaned up a little, put on a little additional size. Not my fav product of all time but worked well, you could look into it
 
Thanks Elementrip. I wouldn't mind looking into Furazadrol per your recommendation, but does it need to be cycled? I know it's non-methylated so it will be much better on the body, but do I need to add anything to it? Its looks great by the way. Also, I hate to keep asking the same question, but those two products that were brought up earlier, IGF-2 and Neovar Recomp, are these good ideas as well? Or maybe one of these with Furazadrol? Just trying to get as much info from all of you since most of you are so advanced in this field.

Thanks.
 
enthusedguy07 said:
Thanks Elementrip. I wouldn't mind looking into Furazadrol per your recommendation, but does it need to be cycled? I know it's non-methylated so it will be much better on the body, but do I need to add anything to it? Its looks great by the way. Also, I hate to keep asking the same question, but those two products that were brought up earlier, IGF-2 and Neovar Recomp, are these good ideas as well? Or maybe one of these with Furazadrol? Just trying to get as much info from all of you since most of you are so advanced in this field.

Thanks.
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I'd imagine the IGF-2 would be good for fat loss.
Neovar would be better suited for a recomp, like it's name says.
For a good non-stim I'd say 7-oxo and DCP.
 
Thanks Wrasslin, but what does Recomp mean? Does that not apply to someone that is trying to do what I'm doing? But you think IGF-2 would be a good product to take?
 
enthusedguy07 said:
Thanks Elementrip. I wouldn't mind looking into Furazadrol per your recommendation, but does it need to be cycled? I know it's non-methylated so it will be much better on the body, but do I need to add anything to it?
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more furazadrol :D takes a pretty high dose, in the range of 2-3x label to be really effective
 
Any thoughts on the above supplements? IGF-2 and Neovar Recomp? Is recomp products used specifically for certain things? Like I have been explaining throughout the thread is to get stronger, but leaner as well without going too harsh on the body.
 
i think DCP and CLA would be right up your ally and where in the world do you get hemp protein? i have never seen any hemp proteins
 
Why is DCP up my alley? Of course everyone's body is different, but what exactly should I expect in terms of results from DCP?

You can get hemp protein from major health food stores and because of the numerous benefits, some supplement carriers are starting to have blends with hemp. Like Hemp/Whey, Hemp/Casein, and Hemp/Egg.

I read about those products I keep mentioning and they look good as well. The IGF-2 and Neovar Recomp. Would one of those work well as a stack with DCP? What is DCP's main purpose?

Thanks.
 
a neovar recomped/dcp would be quite the nice overall package i'd think, with the neovar aiding in you best using the carbs you take in, and the dcp mobilizing fat
 
like easy said it metabolizes fat and its not stim and you said you were lookin for some with pretty much no stim thats why i figured it would be right for yah. as far as results its personally helped me shave some pounds recently. ill definatly be ordering some more too im almost out.
 
EasyEJL so the neovar recomp is a great product for increasing strength and getting leaner? Its a new generation creatine supplement right? I would think IGF-2 would be good as well, but is that not your opinion? DCP has some stimulants in it which I would rather stay away from if possible. What are your thoughts?

Manbeast what are your thoughts as well on IGF-2 and Neovar Recomp?

Thanks
 
I personally lean more towards using IGF-2 on a bulk. Its been my experience it works best that way. It is versatile however, i've just never used it for a cut. Neovar is definitely good for strength increases with getting leaner, and allowing you to still keep a nice carb intake.

Which ingredient in DCP would you consider a stimulant? none of them fall into that category as far as i'm concerned
 
Thanks EasyEJL I have read some reviews saying IGF-2 was good for getting lean as well. Since you mentioned it was versatile then that might make sense. What in Neovar Recomp makes it good for getting lean? I'm not familiar with the product like you are.

In DCP its the Raspberry Ketones which are much like synephrine which elevates the heart rate and increases blood pressure. It is your opinion that Applied Nutriceuticals make ideal products for what I am trying to do?
 
enthusedguy07 said:
Thanks EasyEJL I have read some reviews saying IGF-2 was good for getting lean as well. Since you mentioned it was versatile then that might make sense. What in Neovar Recomp makes it good for getting lean? I'm not familiar with the product like you are.

In DCP its the Raspberry Ketones which are much like synephrine which elevates the heart rate and increases blood pressure. It is your opinion that Applied Nutriceuticals make ideal products for what I am trying to do?
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The main piece that helps with leanness in neovar is the nutrient partitioning ingredients. these stimulate a glut 4 reaction, which basically has the same effect as an insulin spike as far as moving materials into cells however it is cell dependent to only happen with muscle cells.

As far as the IGF-2 goes, I just have never used the product during a cut so its harder for me to say "yes it works great for that". I'm funny that way. Others who are unbiased (not related to the company) have said it does.

Raspberry ketones aren't very much like synephrine in my opinon. If anything they are closer to capzasin. They provide a thermogenic effect without stimulants
 
Thanks again EasyEJL. When taking the neovar, do I need to change my diet from how it currently is? I have a clean diet of lots of protein, high omegas, and moderate carbs.

IGF-2 is basically doing what? I just like to hear a more expanded version on what benefits I should see from someone who knows the product as thorough as you do.

I think I want to take these two together in hopes to get leaner and stronger. If there is something else someone thinks would be an ideal fit please let me know and why?

Thanks.
 
IGF-2 and NeoVar Recomped

enthusedguy07 said:
...My question was I want a product that can help assist me in getting my body even further towards my desired goals. I'm 6'1, 200, 13% bodyfat, and have good size, but I want to get leaner and stronger from where I am currently at. I still hit the gym 5 to 6 times a week doing cardio 3x and weights 3x. Epistane is something that I would have done 5-6 years ago, but I am looking for something easier on the body and more natural.

So Guejsn you think IGF-2 stacked with NeoVar Recomped would be a good alternative? Please let me know if this meets my type of criteria. I would appreciate more comments and opinions. I am a very serious lifter and appreciate everyone's input and time they have given thus far.

Thanks.

Derrick
Click to expand...

Derrick, yes I believe that IGF-2 stacked with NeoVar Recomped would benefit you. You would get increased strength (and muscle mass gains is diet manipulated right), whilst leaning up (I know that I did). IGF-2 is a natural testosterone and growth hormone booster, and NeoVar Recomped is a creatine product that also acts as a nutrient repartitioner and insulin mimic. The two products have actually been DESIGNED to be stacked together.


enthusedguy07 said:
...What Guejsn mentioned looks good and I would be interested in hearing what others think about those products (IGF-2 and Neovar Recomp) as well as other ideas for what could be a great addition for someone trying to get leaner while adding some strength.

Thanks again to everyone's advice.
Click to expand...

You could also think about stacking Drive with the IGF-2 and NeoVar Recomped.


wrasslin116 said:
I'd imagine the IGF-2 would be good for fat loss.
Neovar would be better suited for a recomp, like it's name says.
For a good non-stim I'd say 7-oxo and DCP.
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Actually, IGF-2 works for both gaining muscle mass AND losing bodyfat, or recomping, as well as for gains in strength, decrease in recovery, and better sleep, to name a few benefits. NeoVar Recomped can be used for either as well, as will also aid in recovery (the "Recomped" in the name is just because it is the second, BETTER formulation of NeoVar).


enthusedguy07 said:
Thanks Wrasslin, but what does Recomp mean? Does that not apply to someone that is trying to do what I'm doing? But you think IGF-2 would be a good product to take?
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Recomp is a term that means gaining strength and muscle mass, without gaining much bodyfat (or even LOSING some). This is a hard and slow process, but can be worthwhile, and is not so 'harsh' on the body as bulking and then cutting down drastically like many do. Diet manipulation is the KEY to this though.


enthusedguy07 said:
Any thoughts on the above supplements? IGF-2 and Neovar Recomp? Is recomp products used specifically for certain things? Like I have been explaining throughout the thread is to get stronger, but leaner as well without going too harsh on the body.
Click to expand...

What would you call a "recomp" product? ANY product could be used for recomping, given the RIGHT DIET (and training stimulus).


enthusedguy07 said:
Thanks EasyEJL I have read some reviews saying IGF-2 was good for getting lean as well. Since you mentioned it was versatile then that might make sense. What in Neovar Recomp makes it good for getting lean? I'm not familiar with the product like you are.
Click to expand...

As Eric mentioned, the nutrient repartitioning effects in NeoVar Recompedmake it good for getting lean, the Banaba Extract in particular.


enthusedguy07 said:
In DCP its the Raspberry Ketones which are much like synephrine which elevates the heart rate and increases blood pressure. It is your opinion that Applied Nutriceuticals make ideal products for what I am trying to do?
Click to expand...

Yes, IMO AN makes ideal products for what you are trying to do. Even RPM (which IS a stimulant, but very mild) could be used (I know that you mentioned you didn't want stimulants, but it doesn't give you the jittery 'stimulant' effects like say yohimbine would). In fact, stacking the big four: Drive, RPM, NeoVar Recomped, and IGF-2 would give you the BEST results, but IGF-2 and NeoVar Recomped would be fine on a limited budget.


enthusedguy07 said:
Thanks again EasyEJL. When taking the neovar, do I need to change my diet from how it currently is? I have a clean diet of lots of protein, high omegas, and moderate carbs.
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The only thing you would need to make sure is that you have a meal with ~50g of carbohydrates in 15-20 minutes after dosing NeoVar Recomped, as it is MORE effective when taken 'with' high carbohydrates, and is definitely ideal after a training session.


enthusedguy07 said:
IGF-2 is basically doing what? I just like to hear a more expanded version on what benefits I should see from someone who knows the product as thorough as you do.
Click to expand...

As mentioned IGF-2 would see increased muscle mass, leaning, improved strength, increased recovery (after 3-4 days DOMS was COMPLETELY ELIMINATeD for me), better sleep (from the greater release of growth hormone), increased muscle hardness, and improved endurance as well.

You can also check out logs from other people (or PM them) who have used IGF-2 to see what benefits they experienced (i.e. Craigmatthew, SamBoz19, Inarius, metroba, texaslifter, etc.).

One thing to note is that the first few days using IGF-2 you may want to start at HALF-dose, just to assess your tolerance to it, since many who have started out at full-dose have noticed increased lethargy.


enthusedguy07 said:
I think I want to take these two together in hopes to get leaner and stronger. If there is something else someone thinks would be an ideal fit please let me know and why?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

See answers above.
 
I cannot thank you enough for taking your time and answering every question in such detail Guejsn. I have decided to stack Neovar Recomp and IGF-2, but was wondering if I should include DCP to it as well to cover all my angles. Does this sound good?

My last couple questions are what should my dose level be on Neovar and IGF-2? And if I work out in the evening and I'm 200lbs, how should the capsules be broken down throughout the day?

Thanks.
 
enthusedguy07 said:
Why is DCP up my alley? Of course everyone's body is different, but what exactly should I expect in terms of results from DCP?

You can get hemp protein from major health food stores and because of the numerous benefits, some supplement carriers are starting to have blends with hemp. Like Hemp/Whey, Hemp/Casein, and Hemp/Egg.

I read about those products I keep mentioning and they look good as well. The IGF-2 and Neovar Recomp. Would one of those work well as a stack with DCP? What is DCP's main purpose?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

DCP causing massive fat stores to be released by fat cells, then prevents their being redeposited BACK (basically keeps them circulating in the blood stream). IN addition, DCP contains a form of Carnitine essential for the transport of fat into the mitochondria to be actually burned, as well as a thermogenic.

Carnitine shows effects on androgen receptor density and sensitivity, as well as strengthening the signal to the body that fuel is abundant and it's ok to keep growing.

It is by far the most effective, and stackable, product of it's kind. Stacking it with a stim (EC, Mitotropin, Leviathan Reloaded, SCORCH) and cortisol controlling supplement (like Lean Xtreme) as well as CLA forms pretty much an unbeatable fatloss stack.
 
I recommend IGF-2/NeoVar/Drive/DCP/Anabolic Pump.

I did that stack last summer (but also had RPM) and it completely changed my body. Here is a pic of what my stack looked like.


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I plan to run the same stack very soon. But with more IGF-2, DCP, Anabolic Pump, and Drive.

Good Luck !
 
dsade said:
IN addition, DCP contains a form of Carnitine essential for the transport of fat into the mitochondria to be actually burned, as well as a thermogenic.
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going way outside the box here, do you think that DCP in conjunction with a mitochondrial uncoupling agent would be even more effective?
 
EasyEJL said:
going way outside the box here, do you think that DCP in conjunction with a mitochondrial uncoupling agent would be even more effective?
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ABSOLUTELY.

I had good results using it with high-dose fucoxanthin. Going to be running a post-Arnold low-dose DNP stack.
 
Dsade, sounds great! I think using the Neovar Recomp, IGF-2, and DCP would make for a great stack. My two concerns are I DO NOT want to use stimulants, which I thought the Raspberry Ketones might cause? The other thing is you said for DCP, "then prevents their being redeposited BACK (basically keeps them circulating in the blood stream)," is this safe to keep it in the bloodstream?

Thanks AK for your input. I'm thinking about doing a Neovar, IGF-2, DCP stack. What would you or others recommend in terms of dosage levels and how it should be taken throughout the day? I work out in the evening and I'm 200 lbs.
 
enthusedguy07 said:
Dsade, sounds great! I think using the Neovar Recomp, IGF-2, and DCP would make for a great stack. My two concerns are I DO NOT want to use stimulants, which I thought the Raspberry Ketones might cause? The other thing is you said for DCP, "then prevents their being redeposited BACK (basically keeps them circulating in the blood stream)," is this safe to keep it in the bloodstream?

Thanks AK for your input. I'm thinking about doing a Neovar, IGF-2, DCP stack. What would you or others recommend in terms of dosage levels and how it should be taken throughout the day? I work out in the evening and I'm 200 lbs.
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IGF-2 I'd take 10 a day. 3 upon waking, 4 preworkout, and 3 before bed. All doses are 45 min before meals.

NeoVar 8 a day. 4 caps, 15 min before preworkout meal and 4 caps 15 min before postworkout meal.

DCP is 6 a day. 2 caps 30-45 min before 3 of your biggest meals for the day.
 
enthusedguy07 said:
Dsade, sounds great! I think using the Neovar Recomp, IGF-2, and DCP would make for a great stack. My two concerns are I DO NOT want to use stimulants, which I thought the Raspberry Ketones might cause? The other thing is you said for DCP, "then prevents their being redeposited BACK (basically keeps them circulating in the blood stream)," is this safe to keep it in the bloodstream?

Thanks AK for your input. I'm thinking about doing a Neovar, IGF-2, DCP stack. What would you or others recommend in terms of dosage levels and how it should be taken throughout the day? I work out in the evening and I'm 200 lbs.
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ENTH.

As long as you have a working mechanism to keep transporting the FFA in the bloodstream into the mitochondria and peroxisomes for burning, it is perfectly safe.

RKs are not stimulant, but thermogenic. they cause your body to throw the fatty acid energy off as heat (hence the DCP sweats) using a NON-stimulant m echanism.

Other products use an activation of Adrenergic receptors (whether direct stimulation, via ephedrine or prevention of negative feedback via yohimbine), with caffeine which stims you out.
 
enthusedguy07 said:
I cannot thank you enough for taking your time and answering every question in such detail Guejsn. I have decided to stack Neovar Recomp and IGF-2, but was wondering if I should include DCP to it as well to cover all my angles. Does this sound good?

My last couple questions are what should my dose level be on Neovar and IGF-2? And if I work out in the evening and I'm 200lbs, how should the capsules be broken down throughout the day?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

No worries. You should be as informed as possible whenever deciding to use a supplement.

And yes, you could add in DCP if you wanted.


Dosing/Timing:

IGF-2
Dose 1 - 4 caps first thing in the morning
Dose 2 - 4 caps last thing at night before bed.

NeoVar Recomped

Option A
Dose 1 - 3 caps 40 min pre-resistance training
Dose 2 - 3 caps immediately after resistance training (and then eat a meal with ~50g carbohydrate (CHO) in 15-20 minutes later)

Option B
Dose 1 - 3 caps immediately after resistance training (and then eat a meal with ~50g CHO in 15-20 minutes later)
Dose 2 - 3 caps 15-20 min pre-meal (that contains ~50g CHO) either earlier or later in the day

Option C
Dose 1 - 3 caps 15-20 min pre-breakfast (that contains ~50g CHO) either earlier or later in the day
Dose 2 - 3 caps 40 min pre-resistance training
Dose 3 - 3 caps immediately after resistance training (and then eat a meal with ~50g carbohydrate (CHO) in 15-20 minutes later)

With NeoVar Recomped you can choose the option that suits you best. I use Option C (and also add in a double-dose pre-bed on days when I have VERY high CHO intakes).

DCP
Dose 1 - 2 caps 30 min pre-breakfast
Dose 2 - 2 caps 30 min pre-lunch
Dose 3 - 2 caps 30 min pre-training meal (or you could use it as a pre-training thermogenic/'stimulant', because of the raspberry ketones)
 
Urban Monk said:
How would DCP + 95% Forskolin be?
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They would work well together. However you would have to dose each at separate times for them both to work effectively: Take Forskolin 45 min pre-meal and DCP 30 min pre-meal (see dosing/timing below).

Forskolin
Dose 1 - first thing in the morning
Dose 2 - 45 min pre-training
Dose 2 - last thing at night before bed

DCP
Dose 1 - 2 caps 30 min pre-breakfast
Dose 2 - 2 caps 30 min pre-lunch
Dose 3 - 2 caps 30 min pre-training meal (or you could use it as a pre-training thermogenic/'stimulant', because of the raspberry ketones)
 
IGF-2 is a solid product and conjunction with Neovar, yo can expect a nice leaning effect. Igf-2 is certainly a favourite of mine.
 
Craigmatthew said:
IGF-2 is a solid product and conjunction with Neovar, yo can expect a nice leaning effect. Igf-2 is certainly a favourite of mine.
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I have tried and liked both sepearately. I really did feel repartitioning effects of Neovar.
 
Again thanks so much for all the advice from everyone! I'm stoked to try these products out. I ordered IGF-2, Neovar, and DCP. My big emphasis is getting leaner with some added strength. So hopefully these 3 will do the trick. My big concern is I do not want to take a stimulant like caffeine, synephrine, guarana, yohimbine, or ephedra. I cannot stand the way it makes me feel, but based on everyone's input and knowledge all of you are telling me DCP is not like that and does not have an effect like that on the body, right?

Guejsn and AK both gave a nice dosage schedule, which looks great. If anyone wants to second that or give some input I would appreciate it.

Much thanks to Dsade, EasyELJ, Weaver, and the above mentioned Guejsn and AK. Great feedback.
 
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