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Police shoot man

Manimalia said:
:fing02:
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SO you have no moral objection to me walking up and clubbing you with a baseball bat?

I mean...you can't judge me until you've been in my shoes.

Mozilla/4.0 Sprint:MotoQ (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; Smartphone; 176x220)
 
dsade said:
SO you have no moral objection to me walking up and clubbing you with a baseball bat?

I mean...you can't judge me until you've been in my shoes.

Mozilla/4.0 Sprint:MotoQ (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows CE; Smartphone; 176x220)
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I certainly wouldn't like it. And call me crazy, but I would not object to someone who's mind bent into "snapping" doing this. Life, for people, has varying degrees of difficulty. Again, if you're put into irrational environs/situations, you WILL, in time, respond irrationally.

I love/respect/fear my fellow man/life for this very reason.

I can say this, there is a difference between a man whose job it is to be the voice/hand of reason in unreasonable environs losing perspective and a man who simply assaults someone because he's
"had a bad day" and his Daewoo's dinged by the guy in the Ford behind him.
 
Manimalia said:
I certainly wouldn't like it. And call me crazy, but I would not object to someone who's mind bent into "snapping" doing this. Life, for people, has varying degrees of difficulty. Again, if you're put into irrational environs/situations, you WILL, in time, respond irrationally.

I love/respect/fear my fellow man/life for this very reason.

I can say this, there is a difference between a man whose job it is to be the voice/hand of reason in unreasonable environs losing perspective and a man who simply assaults someone because he's
"had a bad day" and his Daewoo's dinged by the guy in the Ford behind him.
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Please explain to me how his actions are consistent with this train of thought. He has a more stressful career than most, but that doesn't give him the authority to slay a subdued, non-resistant subject. Having 2 officers driving their knees into him was already excessive and they went even further without provocation.
 
Manimalia said:
I certainly wouldn't like it. And call me crazy, but I would not object to someone who's mind bent into "snapping" doing this. Life, for people, has varying degrees of difficulty. Again, if you're put into irrational environs/situations, you WILL, in time, respond irrationally.

I love/respect/fear my fellow man/life for this very reason.

I can say this, there is a difference between a man whose job it is to be the voice/hand of reason in unreasonable environs losing perspective and a man who simply assaults someone because he's
"had a bad day" and his Daewoo's dinged by the guy in the Ford behind him.
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Rodja
 
I know my view may be wrong to society. But that's just the thing, I am not a fan OF society for the most part. I am a fan of things it created in the past----community and market. I am not a fan of the things that it has created as of late, though.

I don't want to seem I am right. I apologize for trying to seem that way. I just hold a different view of this thing we call society. And the one thing I will say, err type, til I'm blue in the fingers, is that society is always a factor. Someone kills. We jail/kill them. It's like society has a big tumor on it. We only cut out the microscopic pieces that become inflamed. We need to just break out the scalpel and lop the whole tumor off. It'll never happen, though.
 
Hahahaahaha, I realize that this last post sounded like I said we need to commit mass genocide! Hahahaha, that's not the case. I meant we need to fix what needs fixing WITHOUT killing. We, anyone, who ARE in rational states of being.
 
Manimalia said:
I know my view may be wrong to society. But that's just the thing, I am not a fan OF society for the most part. I am a fan of things it created in the past----community and market. I am not a fan of the things that it has created as of late, though.

I don't want to seem I am right. I apologize for trying to seem that way. I just hold a different view of this thing we call society. And the one thing I will say, err type, til I'm blue in the fingers, is that society is always a factor. Someone kills. We jail/kill them. It's like society has a big tumor on it. We only cut out the microscopic pieces that become inflamed. We need to just break out the scalpel and lop the whole tumor off. It'll never happen, though.
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By this logic, you're solution is to eradicate all societies/communities. By ignoring this situation, all you are essentially doing is to indirectly approve of this behavior. Baytown, while not in the upper demographics in this country, is by no means a slum. Some things need more reform than others and police brutality is amongst the greater areas. The main problem is that the force continuum is not standarized. What is a level 2 for some people is a level 4 and vice versa. This is one of the reasons I train law enforcement officers, ao they learn how to defend themselves without having to increase their force.
 
Rodja said:
By this logic, you're solution is to eradicate all societies/communities. By ignoring this situation, all you are essentially doing is to indirectly approve of this behavior. Baytown, while not in the upper demographics in this country, is by no means a slum. Some things need more reform than others and police brutality is amongst the greater areas. The main problem is that the force continuum is not standarized. What is a level 2 for some people is a level 4 and vice versa. This is one of the reasons I train law enforcement officers, ao they learn how to defend themselves without having to increase their force.
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Nah, see, I realize that I made it sound as though there should be genocide. What I meant was that we need to fix what needs fixing. What does "what needs fixing" entail? That's far too large of a topic for the scope of this thread. We don't wanna talk about all that. At least I don't.

But, on another note, I think it's good what you're doing.
 
scotty2 said:
I wonder how many of you are cops...........easy to make decisions from your armchair on Monday morning................until you've walked a mile in his shoes..............your opinion is irrelevent
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Bullshit.

All that needs to be said to this.
 
Eh Rodja, let me ask you a question? Why are you always so standoffish? I notice a pattern where you end the debate with your self asserted, but never really finish the debate in a civil manner. It's kind of a bad habit. Makes you seem an unfriendly guy.
 
Manimalia said:
Eh Rodja, let me ask you a question? Why are you always so standoffish? I notice a pattern where you end the debate with your self asserted, but never really finish the debate in a civil manner. It's kind of a bad habit. Makes you seem an unfriendly guy.
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In what way was I not civil? At no time did I insult or defame any person throughout my posts. I am an assertive person and I firmly believe in my opinions. What is the point of believing something if you aren't willing to defend you views?
 
CDB said:
Bullshit.

All that needs to be said to this.
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You're bright. No one ever heard of exigent circumstances. I'll explain it as simply as possible. One instance where a cuffed perp was seated in the back seat. The perp performed the "okey-doke" if you don't know what that is, sorry. Cuffed perp then got the cuffs around the driver's neck and began leg pressing the front seat. The perp was subsequently shot and killed by the passenger. EVERYONE GOT THAT? A cuffed perp, in custody was shot and killed. One other incident. Performing an arrest, a rear cuffed perp got his hands on the cops gun as he leaned in, cop was shot in the leg. Perp was subsequently shot because he would not let go of the weapon. I don't find this all that difficult to understand. If you weren't there, you don't know.....period. Don't know what those clowns did to garner the police attention in the first place, and, that cop, could actually just be a murderer. It's all possible. The rest is ignorant speculation.
 
Scotty what you're failing to add to your example is the fact that these actions were in response to an action. you can not justify deadly force on what a subject 'could have'(the ability part of ability, opportunity and intent) done. Your examples do not fit in line with what we're seeing in this video


Dr.D thanks for the correction, that is what I meant and i agree that 2 out of those 3 are not present.
 
Jayhawkk said:
Scotty what you're failing to add to your example is the fact that these actions were in response to an action. you can not justify deadly force on what a subject 'could have' done. Your examples do not fit in line with what we're seeing in this video


Dr.D thanks for the correction, that is what I meant and i agree that 2 out of those 3 are not present.
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There's a lot of ambiguity in that video. Absolutely nothing definitive. Can you tell me what was going on in that scrum. What was the reason they continued to kneel on his neck? I will not judge until after the facts. Anyone know who Justin Volpe is? He's the piece of sh1t who sexually assaulted the man in the bathroom with a baton. There is no defense for that, nor would there be a defense for this cop if he did indeed, execute that perp. A logical conclusion cannot be drawn on the basis of that video, way too much going on. Was that perp reaching for the cop's gun. I'm not saying that what he did was justified, I'm saying there are exigent circumstances as I've previously outlined.
 
Manimalia said:
I know my view may be wrong to society. But that's just the thing, I am not a fan OF society for the most part. I am a fan of things it created in the past----community and market. I am not a fan of the things that it has created as of late, though.

I don't want to seem I am right. I apologize for trying to seem that way. I just hold a different view of this thing we call society. And the one thing I will say, err type, til I'm blue in the fingers, is that society is always a factor. Someone kills. We jail/kill them. It's like society has a big tumor on it. We only cut out the microscopic pieces that become inflamed. We need to just break out the scalpel and lop the whole tumor off. It'll never happen, though.
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We live in a decaying society! You just now realizing that? Seriously, you can't cut off a tumor when it's so deep and so well cloaked that you see it daily and STILL don't realize. Unfortunately, stories like this make it even more clear what's happening. This game is almost over bro. We're in the snap count of the very last play with seconds on the clock. Somethin' has got to give.
 
Rodja said:
In what way was I not civil? At no time did I insult or defame any person throughout my posts. I am an assertive person and I firmly believe in my opinions. What is the point of believing something if you aren't willing to defend you views?
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Ah, I fully agree. But I just find it strange that even when someone, on their end, typing with you, finishes in a positive manner, you have nothing positive to contribute to that end. I guess I'm too positive.
 
Jayhawkk said:
... Dr.D thanks for the correction, that is what I meant and i agree that 2 out of those 3 are not present.
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I'm just thankful there's still good men like you in LE Jay. I know a few locally too, so I know they're still out there. It gives me a ray of hope. God bless all our police and armed forces that serve with honor, and still have enough balls to say NO if they're asked to execute an unlawful order.
 
Manimalia said:
Ah, I fully agree. But I just find it strange that even when someone, on their end, typing with you, finishes in a positive manner, you have nothing positive to contribute to that end. I guess I'm too positive.
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Contradictory much...
 
There's a lot of ambiguity in that video. Absolutely nothing definitive. Can you tell me what was going on in that scrum. What was the reason they continued to kneel on his neck? I will not judge until after the facts. Anyone know who Justin Volpe is? He's the piece of sh1t who sexually assaulted the man in the bathroom with a baton. There is no defense for that, nor would there be a defense for this cop if he did indeed, execute that perp. A logical conclusion cannot be drawn on the basis of that video, way too much going on. Was that perp reaching for the cop's gun. I'm not saying that what he did was justified, I'm saying there are exigent circumstances as I've previously outlined.
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I'd be the first to say that you would need to know all of the circumstances before making a conclusion but we're not writing a paper on law here. We're commenting on what we can see and those videos will play a huge role in evidence. if there were circumstances that caused his weapon to be pulled he was still wrong in pulling the trigger. Had people been approaching those officers while trying to control the subject or an apparent show of intent of the subject to do grievous bodily harm then I may be as defensive as you seem to be of this officer.
 
I'm only defending the fact that there may be EXIGENT circumstances. We see 5 minutes of a video. By what I've seen of the video, there is NO excuse for what occurred. But, I wasn't there. This really isn't that difficult. BTW, most cops do NOT carry tasers. I know they don't in NYC. I know you don't care if there was a fight, or if someone was robbed, no one deserves to be shot dead, you're right. But does that mean someone deserves to be robbed? Or did he deserve to have that done to him by his "boy." As far as shooting a cuffed perp, I guess you didn't read all my posts. :(
 
scotty2 said:
I'm only defending the fact that there may be EXIGENT circumstances. We see 5 minutes of a video. By what I've seen of the video, there is NO excuse for what occurred. But, I wasn't there. This really isn't that difficult. BTW, most cops do NOT carry tasers. I know they don't in NYC. I know you don't care if there was a fight, or if someone was robbed, no one deserves to be shot dead, you're right. But does that mean someone deserves to be robbed? Or did he deserve to have that done to him by his "boy." As far as shooting a cuffed perp, I guess you didn't read all my posts. :(
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It's not the fact that he is just cuffed - we all read your examples. But he is cuffed, on his belly (hands still behind his back) with several cops surrounding him - one with his knee on the guy's back. This is not disputed - it is plainly clear.

What exactly do you think the guy might be doing to justify deadly force being used?

I see NO imminent threat to justify deadly force.
 
dsade said:
It's not the fact that he is just cuffed - we all read your examples. But he is cuffed, on his belly (hands still behind his back) with several cops surrounding him - one with his knee on the guy's back. This is not disputed - it is plainly clear.

What exactly do you think the guy might be doing to justify deadly force being used?

I see NO imminent threat to justify deadly force.
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I don't think anything. My gut reation is that guy is f uc ked. But, I wasn't there, so, I can't say. If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck, it probably ain't a chicken, and he's doing quite a bit of waddling. The other cops on the scene will testify and most likely corroborate the worst caase scenario for this guy. Until that happens, we don't know anything. Terrible accident at worst. Far from a murder, but, stranger things have happened.
 
scotty2 said:
The other cops on the scene will testify and most likely corroborate the worst caase scenario for this guy. .
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I have no doubt that they will (no offense Jay) - however, I doubt there IS anything they will be able to attempt to implicate with the videos in existence.
 
None taken but if these guys have any sense at all they'll know that trying to make up a story with what's already out there would be a lesson in self defeat.
 
dsade said:
I have no doubt that they will (no offense Jay) - however, I doubt there IS anything they will be able to attempt to implicate with the videos in existence.
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The other cops on the scene are in the unenviable position of saving their own skin at the expense of this guy, it's on video. This is why I hesitate to pass judgement. The other cops not only risk their jobs, but, their freedom as well if they perjure themselves(kind of difficult, again, based on the fact that there is......................yep, VIDEO) Going to have to sit back and let this one unfold.
 
scotty2 said:
The other cops on the scene are in the unenviable position of saving their own skin at the expense of this guy, it's on video. This is why I hesitate to pass judgement. The other cops not only risk their jobs, but, their freedom as well if they perjure themselves(kind of difficult, again, based on the fact that there is......................yep, VIDEO) Going to have to sit back and let this one unfold.
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Actually, the way it looks to me is that they are as shocked as the bystanders at the rogue cop's actions. I think this was the actions of one individual, and while they might try to do what they can to back him up, in the end I don't see anything FAR over the line by the other cops present.

I agree, Jay, I think the guy is on his own on this one - as he should be. Even the most ardent apologist would would be hard pressed to find a foothold to even begin to justify.
 
The officer has now been charged with murder. This does not make me happy. Here is a man who has been protecting our country for at least three years that I know of. He was an officer for two, and served in the Iraq Conflict as a soldier for at least one year. Here's a man who has been doing the two most "noble" jobs a man can do in this country, sentenced to go to prison for 50 to life.

They have mediums in prison. This is known by everyone. People on the outside/mediums turned this into a "racial crime." Now, this man goes to prison. He will likely face greater danger than most going there.

So he has two choices. Apply koolaid to his lips and tie his shirt into a tube top knot. Or, he'll find a "click" to join. The "click" will likely congratulate his "accomplishment." This man's life is ruined, if not ended. Another man is already dead. End of story.
 
Manimalia said:
The officer has now been charged with murder. This does not make me happy. Here is a man who has been protecting our country for at least three years that I know of. He was an officer for two, and served in the Iraq Conflict as a soldier for at least one year. Here's a man who has been doing the two most "noble" jobs a man can do in this country, sentenced to go to prison for 50 to life.

They have mediums in prison. This is known by everyone. People on the outside/mediums turned this into a "racial crime." Now, this man goes to prison. He will likely face greater danger than most going there.

So he has two choices. Apply koolaid to his lips and tie his shirt into a tube top knot. Or, he'll find a "click" to join. The "click" will likely congratulate his "accomplishment." This man's life is ruined, if not ended. Another man is already dead. End of story.
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Son...stay off the drugs.
 
Rodja said:
Contradictory much...
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Man, I try to be nice. But honestly Rodja, you're an *******. Whew. It feels so much better saying that.

Not a thing I said was contradictory. It was actually complimentary. I did say that us citizens should stop stating our opinions as to what should be done with him. But WE, you and I, began debating a whole different topic.

It's official. You simply must contort things to make yourself appear right and others wrong. But you're not fooling ME, the other half of OUR debate.

You've got issues. Say what you want. You know it's true, though. Me, I'm adjusted and .....:yup:
 
Manimalia said:
The officer has now been charged with murder. This does not make me happy. Here is a man who has been protecting our country for at least three years that I know of. He was an officer for two, and served in the Iraq Conflict as a soldier for at least one year. Here's a man who has been doing the two most "noble" jobs a man can do in this country, sentenced to go to prison for 50 to life.

They have mediums in prison. This is known by everyone. People on the outside/mediums turned this into a "racial crime." Now, this man goes to prison. He will likely face greater danger than most going there.

So he has two choices. Apply koolaid to his lips and tie his shirt into a tube top knot. Or, he'll find a "click" to join. The "click" will likely congratulate his "accomplishment." This man's life is ruined, if not ended. Another man is already dead. End of story.
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How do you think the family of the victim feels? Do you honestly expect them to not wish for justice in this situation?
 
What happened to the "Rodney King" beat down. As bad as it was even that would have been better than what happened. I don't think the cop meant to execute him but he screwed up in the worst possible way that you can then ultimately ran away. So now he is being charged with 2nd degree murder because he was basically incompetent.

:bruce3:
 
Manimalia said:
Man, I try to be nice. But honestly Rodja, you're an *******. Whew. It feels so much better saying that.

Not a thing I said was contradictory. It was actually complimentary. I did say that us citizens should stop stating our opinions as to what should be done with him. But WE, you and I, began debating a whole different topic.

It's official. You simply must contort things to make yourself appear right and others wrong. But you're not fooling ME, the other half of OUR debate.

You've got issues. Say what you want. You know it's true, though. Me, I'm adjusted and .....:yup:
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You called yourself overly positive, yet you have such a misanthropic attitude towards the actions of others. Do you honestly not see the contradiction there?

As to your psychoanalysis of me based upon my posts on an internet forum, you have never met me, and I highly doubt you will, but it is foolish and arrogant of you to think you can attach a label to me. You do not know my personality, theology, sense of humor, etc., so how can you say I have issues. Stubborn, yes; strong-willed, yes, but I do not have "issues." I have a hunch that because I train MMA that you automatically assume I have some sort of anger problem.
 
Rodja said:
You called yourself overly positive, yet you have such a misanthropic attitude towards the actions of others. Do you honestly not see the contradiction there?

As to your psychoanalysis of me based upon my posts on an internet forum, you have never met me, and I highly doubt you will, but it is foolish and arrogant of you to think you can attach a label to me. You do not know my personality, theology, sense of humor, etc., so how can you say I have issues. Stubborn, yes; strong-willed, yes, but I do not have "issues." I have a hunch that because I train MMA that you automatically assume I have some sort of anger problem.
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he DID call you a bunch of asterisks....are you?
 
Rodja said:
You called yourself overly positive, yet you have such a misanthropic attitude towards the actions of others. Do you honestly not see the contradiction there?

As to your psychoanalysis of me based upon my posts on an internet forum, you have never met me, and I highly doubt you will, but it is foolish and arrogant of you to think you can attach a label to me. You do not know my personality, theology, sense of humor, etc., so how can you say I have issues. Stubborn, yes; strong-willed, yes, but I do not have "issues." I have a hunch that because I train MMA that you automatically assume I have some sort of anger problem.
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Nah, your poetry and online disposition gave them away.
 
Manimalia said:
Nah, your poetry and online disposition gave them away.
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Kinda sad that you put that much thought into it. Maybe you should spend less time worrying about me and more time learning to actually construct a diet and training routine.
 
Rodja said:
Kinda sad that you put that much thought into it. Maybe you should spend less time worrying about me and more time learning to actually construct a diet and training routine.
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Hahaha. Sad but true. I won't dance around the ring and throw more low blows at you, Rodja....simply because I KNOW I'll lose (I ain't got big dog reps and a rep position with other reps that'll dogpile for me).

Also, I'm happy with my fitness level and my diet. Oh, I wish I could bench more, but I never did have a great bench, even when I was a behemoth. But now I can do many pullups! Even weighted ones! And I can run all the way to my campus and back! That's four miles! And I don't even get but a little bit winded from that! And hey, I can deadlift more than twice my weight! Wow, I'm in great shape! Hahha, sorry we're not all, you know, fighters who do extreme training. What a joke.
 
Rodja said:
Kinda sad that you put that much thought into it. Maybe you should spend less time worrying about me and more time learning to actually construct a diet and training routine.
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Oh, and another thing, wouldn't you kind of have to be skulking around the board here to KNOW what I, ME, is up to? Pot callin' kettle black. Hahah.
 
Manimalia said:
Oh, and another thing, wouldn't you kind of have to be skulking around the board here to KNOW what I, ME, is up to? Pot callin' kettle black. Hahah.
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I have been perusing this board for several years and always remember those with really bad, almost clueless advice. Despite the head trauma I receive on a consistent basis, I have a great memory.
 
Rodja said:
I have been perusing this board for several years and always remember those with really bad, almost clueless advice. Despite the head trauma I receive on a consistent basis, I have a great memory.
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Cough it up then. Link me to that sheyit.
 
I just took a minute to go back and look at some things I've posted in that past pertaining to training/diet. I DID post some bonehead stuff. I WAS and am still ignorant to most exacting methods. I have only fundamental knowledge. I am a novice. I have no problems admitting that here and now.

I mean, I was telling folk when I first joined, who were asking about how to "cut", what to do. The advice I gave was stuff I had done that DIDN'T work. You actually do have me there, Rodja.

But I've put trying to find the exact numbers and exact rep/set schemes behind me now because I realize I don't have the same goals I once had. I don't have the same mindset I once had. I wanted to blanket my self in muscle a couple years back because I wasn't secure with my self. Went so far as to cycle even. No more, as my problems are no more.

Now, I simply exercise because it's what I like to call "dynamic meditation." Short story long, Rodja, is that through your reminding me, I realize I have thrown shotty advice around the board. That has been and will continue to be done. I'm the guy who's happy he can even exercise now, the guy who eats when he's hungry. I have no advice to give.

Sorry OP for getting this thread jacked up. Over and out out out, y'all.
 
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