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steveironman

Banned
im new here and have a few questions. Why are there so many supplement manufacturer reps on this board? how come when u post and say you dont like their product they immediately swarm upon you and try to defend it? It just an opinion forum everyone should be free to express theirs and not be hounded when it disputes manufacturers claims...thats kinda silly. People (mainly manufacturers) say well you havent tried it why say you dont think it will work or dont like it. Well because a lot of times they claim it does things i wouldnt want to do ...like lower cortisol. Or it says it is better than the majority of studies on the main ingredient because it is a better extract ...i say show me that and maybe ill try it because based on most of the clinical studies in my mind it wouldnt be prudent or sensible to use it. Why is it such a big deal to ask to see that info or proof ..i mean you manufacturers are hear ..you make the claims..you must have proof ..just share it with us....what the big secret - no ones asking your secret formula or anything just test results you have to have to make your claims...seems reasonable. Also how come otc supplements are included in the steroid forum? Steroids are testosterone derivatives ... not obscure precursors etc.... kind of confuses people...makes them think that some of these products are actual steroids...we all know that isnt the case. Ive been looking at several supplement forums in the last few weeks....this is what ive observed here..
 
steveironman said:
im new here and have a few questions. Why are there so many supplement manufacturer reps on this board? how come when u post and say you dont like their product they immediately swarm upon you and try to defend it? It just an opinion forum everyone should be free to express theirs and not be hounded when it disputes manufacturers claims...thats kinda silly. People (mainly manufacturers) say well you havent tried it why say you dont think it will work or dont like it. Well because a lot of times they claim it does things i wouldnt want to do ...like lower cortisol. Or it says it is better than the majority of studies on the main ingredient because it is a better extract ...i say show me that and maybe ill try it because based on most of the clinical studies in my mind it wouldnt be prudent or sensible to use it. Why is it such a big deal to ask to see that info or proof ..i mean you manufacturers are hear ..you make the claims..you must have proof ..just share it with us....what the big secret - no ones asking your secret formula or anything just test results you have to have to make your claims...seems reasonable. Also how come otc supplements are included in the steroid forum? Steroids are testosterone derivatives ... not obscure precursors etc.... kind of confuses people...makes them think that some of these products are actual steroids...we all know that isnt the case. Ive been looking at several supplement forums in the last few weeks....this is what ive observed here..
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Where did you post and reps swarmed you?

Also, what "supplements" are in the wrong forum? You mean the ones that convert to an active after it passes?

And, who has denied giving you any proof of which product?
 
This stuff is a ripoff ..this ralp4u2c dude posted bs on anther forum (he works for them(tbol guys)or something) and he got caught in like lie after lie..he posted some study on rats ..but edited the study cause it said info didnt apply to people...and if it was to be tried on people the dose needed to even try to get it to work was like 600 times as much as this tbol stuff has in it... a guy on the site found the real study and posted it. Then he said he had labwork on people posted in a study on another site...turns out no blood work was there ....pretty funny post actually i put it (link) here yesterday but it got deleted. anyway ...this ralph dude and this tbol were def proved a fraud ..no doubt. I'll never buy it
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^^^This was about your first or second post here!

There's always an explanation for everything...it's your approach bro' ... I could post more but why bother, you get the idea.
 
The board isn't owned by a supp company, as is the case with T-Nation. The reps are obviously here to promote their own products, in exchange for supporting the site. If you are reasonably intelligent of course you should realize that it isn't the most objective perspective, and that you need to read between the lines, as well as gathering evidence from a variety of sources. C'est la vie.

OTC products are not necessarily "obscure precursors". Many such as superdrol and epistane for example, are actually legal / quasi-legal oral steroids - not even prohormones - either re-discovered or specifically designed to skirt regulations, so you should educate yourself a little more on the distinction.

cheers
 
^^^ OK forget the approach ..what about my points? Ive since amended my approach ...contributed in threads where i favor products. Made suggestion as to what products i use for certain puposes...there are still several threads where a simple request of info would end any debate but yet no manufacturer can post info to back up their claims? They have to have the proof if they say the claim ...so just sho3w it thats all. Rather than that they just try to discredit 1 opinion ...makes me wonder where the proof is??I asked several good questions above ... And precursors are not steroids...period... I know the effects well ...not even close to real roids ...btu by putting them with steroids (in an attemp to make them appear to be such ..for obvious vested interests) u are simply giving people without knowledge more ammo to make them illegal like they did with 4ad etc.....
 
I still want to know what obscure precursors?
What specifically are you talking about, in which thread...just point a few out, that would be good.

Why would you think that the board admins would want a product which converts to an active to be discussed in the supplement section? This question has been asked, at least, 75 times, and it gets the same response each and every time...If you came into my house, and I stated that my rules are to kick your shoes off as you come through the door then you have an option of kicking your shoes off, or hitting the trail backwards....
 
I am sorry bro', but from what I've read, you have hosed quite a few products yet have admitted that you have not tried many, or any of them...

You base a lot of your "facts" on white paper research. Is it not common knowledge to know that many white papers do not translate well when that substance encounters different physiological/psychological environments?

Yes, I know that many drugs are tested on humans before they are released, but that is usually in a controlled environment, and it is also not 6 billion people (each with individual physiological and psychological reactions) testing it....

Some times you must toss the whites and try it for yourself before hosing it...
 
As far as your points go, yes, i agree, some people are a bit defensive about their products...as well, I know, FOR A FACT, that some companies put out trash products; however, respect should still be there regardless of how you wish to burn them at the stake.

It's better to just tell them that their product may not work due to fact a and fact b...instead of saying "hey, your product sucks the brown eye with dingle berries hanging out"
 
steveironman said:
^^^ OK forget the approach ..what about my points? Ive since amended my approach ...contributed in threads where i favor products. Made suggestion as to what products i use for certain puposes...there are still several threads where a simple request of info would end any debate but yet no manufacturer can post info to back up their claims? They have to have the proof if they say the claim ...so just sho3w it thats all. Rather than that they just try to discredit 1 opinion ...makes me wonder where the proof is??I asked several good questions above ... And precursors are not steroids...period... I know the effects well ...not even close to real roids ...btu by putting them with steroids (in an attemp to make them appear to be such ..for obvious vested interests) u are simply giving people without knowledge more ammo to make them illegal like they did with 4ad etc.....
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So, you are saying that no prohormone can have any anabolic nor androgenic activity?

Come now ... lets not get ludicrous shall we.

Honestly, do you think that the admins on this board would intentionally place a complete "supplement" with no androgenic/anabolic activity, of any kind, in the steroid section just to drum up sales or remove the opposite for the same purpose??????

Why would I put something somewhere else to drum up sales for a competing company? That makes 0 sense.
 
i am in about 7 threasd...3 of which i will not use products because :
1 does something i dont want (lower cortisol)
2- the second stste the main diff in their main ingredient is its a better strain (maain claim to product) where in studies on the main ingredient im so dissapointed in the results i dont wanna try it BUT i said ok show me the difference in your ingredient claim which obviously you mush have proof in order to legally make the claim. Share that info and i'd def give it a try (along wiht thousands of others in sure..not here but if u posted that info publically)
3- a product with sketcky research ...where a rep was caught in lie after lie on another forum and even edited a published study to suit his claims...and on top of it even if it does everything they say it is physiologically useless at gaining muscle mass.

pretty legit questions IMO ..regardless of approach ...which as i said i have amended in future posts quoting first hand experience and even stateing brands of products i use....
 
steveironman said:
im new here and have a few questions. Why are there so many supplement manufacturer reps on this board? how come when u post and say you dont like their product they immediately swarm upon you and try to defend it? It just an opinion forum everyone should be free to express theirs and not be hounded when it disputes manufacturers claims...thats kinda silly. People (mainly manufacturers) say well you havent tried it why say you dont think it will work or dont like it. Well because a lot of times they claim it does things i wouldnt want to do ...like lower cortisol. Or it says it is better than the majority of studies on the main ingredient because it is a better extract ...i say show me that and maybe ill try it because based on most of the clinical studies in my mind it wouldnt be prudent or sensible to use it. Why is it such a big deal to ask to see that info or proof ..i mean you manufacturers are hear ..you make the claims..you must have proof ..just share it with us....what the big secret - no ones asking your secret formula or anything just test results you have to have to make your claims...seems reasonable. Also how come otc supplements are included in the steroid forum? Steroids are testosterone derivatives ... not obscure precursors etc.... kind of confuses people...makes them think that some of these products are actual steroids...we all know that isnt the case. Ive been looking at several supplement forums in the last few weeks....this is what ive observed here..
Click to expand...
a product will work for me but might not work for you.i am not a rep but i have seen people diss products that i have found to be proven and worthy of my support.so i will in fact go to that products credibility rescue because i have seen it work through experience.take dienedrone for example.if someone would say something bad about that product saying that it doesnt' work.i first would ask for proof.i would ask for diet and training stats.then if they want proof i would tell them to click on my link(log) and they would have all the proof they need.reps will ofcourse back there product and thats understandable!:thumbsup:
 
hardknock said:
So, you are saying that no prohormone can have any anabolic nor androgenic activity?

Come now ... lets not get ludicrous shall we.

Honestly, do you think that the admins on this board would intentionally place a complete "supplement" with no androgenic/anabolic activity, of any kind, in the steroid section just to drum up sales or remove the opposite for the same purpose??????

Why would I put something somewhere else to drum up sales for a competing company? That makes 0 sense.
Click to expand...


Thats not what defines a steroid and i have no idea why they did it but it can defiantly bring about negative publicity onto the product classifying it as such thus causing the ban of more OTC prohormone type supplements.... it was a question ...not an attack ....i mean surely we are all smart enough to know that the supp companies try to make all products sound like real steroids...thats obvoius huh*L* but above is my main point...
 
baby jesus read this thread and cried. so much dumb. for the record, i am not a rep for any company.
 
1. Wrong section

2. You want your opinioned valued yet you feel that a rep for a company can not give one as well?

3. You have several 'issues' that you're trying to wrap up in one long run-on venting session.

4. Wrong section...
 
I am not quite sure what companies you had problems with, but A simple solution would be to email the owner and ask for the study conducted.
 
I think you mean well, at least I hope you do.
There are only a handful of Reps that product pimp here, and most of the time it is in their own sub-forum. Frankly, I'm known to promote other companies over my own; of course you have to take into consideration of what exactly the questionnaire is asking (supplement wise).

If you can take your first post here (in this thread), and validate your questions in a non-conformational way, I think you will get more answers.

And feel free to PM me if you would like - for whatever reason.
 
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steveironman said:
Thats not what defines a steroid and i have no idea why they did it but it can defiantly bring about negative publicity onto the product classifying it as such thus causing the ban of more OTC prohormone type supplements.... it was a question ...not an attack ....i mean surely we are all smart enough to know that the supp companies try to make all products sound like real steroids...thats obvoius huh*L* but above is my main point...
Click to expand...
Too many pronouns: make your point plainly, please!
 
Iron Lungz said:
I think you mean well, at least I hope you do.
There are only a handful of Reps that product pimp here, and most of the time it is in their own sub-forum. Frankly, I'm known to promote other companies over my own; of course you have to take into consideration of what exactly the questionnaire is asking (supplement wise).

If you can take your first post here (in this thread), and validate your questions in a non-conformational way, I think you will get more answers.

And feel free to PM me if you would like - for whatever reason.
Click to expand...

Agreed.. there are alot of great reps around, and willing to present the information and proof, or where they got the theories from. Although you must realize that there is a person at the other end that may believe in said product, and being confrontational isn't the way to go.

I am more that willing to present any required information for the company I represent, or at least share my opinions. But if someone comes at me the wrong way, I will not let my emotion get the best of me, and instead just ignore someone. Not many other people will do the same though.

Adams
 
DAdams91982 said:
Agreed.. there are alot of great reps around, and willing to present the information and proof, or where they got the theories from. Although you must realize that there is a person at the other end that may believe in said product, and being confrontational isn't the way to go.

I am more that willing to present any required information for the company I represent, or at least share my opinions. But if someone comes at me the wrong way, I will not let my emotion get the best of me, and instead just ignore someone. Not many other people will do the same though.

Adams
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agreed for the most part. I will offer you as much information as I am allowed to, from then on you must take it up with the owners of said company.
 
I hope the OP's question or statement was answered here. As anyone can see there are good company reps here who will not feed you a line of BS. They are not supplement pimps, and do indeed use and endorse others products that give them results. If that isnt fair and objective, nothing is. This is and has been one of the best boards around. Please open your eyes and lose the subjective perspective. JMO
 
it never ceases to amaze me how some people complain here about something, it's a free forum, if you don't like it...
 
I think a lot of newcomers here completely miss an important fact: many (if not most) of the company reps on AM were respected board members & stand-up guys long before their rep status: it's WHY they were chosen as reps.

Even the company folks who came here with/after their co's sponsorship have been BOARD MEMBERS AND SUPPORTERS: honest, wide-ranging participants in the board as a whole.

Consequently, "supplement pimps' like you find on other boards don't do well here - and not every company that wanders in here stays.

Since the OP is brand-new here, he can't know this yet. This is why the advice to new members is ALWAYS to lurk, get to know who's who before you post, use the search & dig through the archives.

That's how you learn - and that's when you can teach as well.
 
All this thread did was make me realize that my gym is going to be super crowded until Spring.:rant::rant:
 
b unit said:
it never ceases to amaze me how some people complain here about something, it's a free forum, if you don't like it...
Click to expand...


amen....... people who take offense or get upset over a post...in an online forum....by people 100's to 1000's of miles away..... over the effectiveness of a product or the science behind it...and act like someone stepped on your new Puma's or something...
 
steveironman said:
Thats not what defines a steroid and i have no idea why they did it but it can defiantly bring about negative publicity onto the product classifying it as such thus causing the ban of more OTC prohormone type supplements.... it was a question ...not an attack ....i mean surely we are all smart enough to know that the supp companies try to make all products sound like real steroids...thats obvoius huh*L* but above is my main point...
Click to expand...
We can dicuss that determined basis on steroids over AOL or yahoo, but for now, i'd try and post my objectivity with a slight bit of political correct'ness'...

I am not saying to kiss ass, by any means, because then you would be just as terrible as the pimps.

You seems to be a possible good contributor, but things like I've seen thus far can land you, hard.
 
b unit said:
it never ceases to amaze me how some people complain here about something, it's a free forum, if you don't like it...
Click to expand...

agreed, another thing that never ceases to amaze me is that there are businesses operating out of this forum... openly.

...these businesses pay for their advertising space, and obviously promote and advertise their products to compete for the consumer dollar.... in the business world this is a normal practice.

Yet people complain about it...

For example, I saw a guy complaining in the 'Company Promotions' section about a Company That Shall Remain Nameless, regarding promoting their products... WTF?

This type of headuparse syndrome appears to be a growing phenomemon on AM!

End Rant.
 
steveironman said:
^^^ OK forget the approach ..what about my points? Ive since amended my approach ...contributed in threads where i favor products. Made suggestion as to what products i use for certain puposes...there are still several threads where a simple request of info would end any debate but yet no manufacturer can post info to back up their claims? They have to have the proof if they say the claim ...so just sho3w it thats all. Rather than that they just try to discredit 1 opinion ...makes me wonder where the proof is??I asked several good questions above ... And precursors are not steroids...period... I know the effects well ...not even close to real roids ...btu by putting them with steroids (in an attemp to make them appear to be such ..for obvious vested interests) u are simply giving people without knowledge more ammo to make them illegal like they did with 4ad etc.....
Click to expand...

Check out Blue Gene -- get chaa jackeddd!!!!! :bb3:
 
jakellpet said:
agreed, another thing that never ceases to amaze me is that there are businesses operating out of this forum... openly.

...these businesses pay for their advertising space, and obviously promote and advertise their products to compete for the consumer dollar.... in the business world this is a normal practice.

Yet people complain about it...

For example, I saw a guy complaining in the 'Company Promotions' section about a Company That Shall Remain Nameless, regarding promoting their products... WTF?

This type of headuparse syndrome appears to be a growing phenomemon on AM!

End Rant.
Click to expand...
Its just like when any musical talent (be it whatever type of music) goes from performing in smokey night clubs to mainstream media...everyone wants them to 'keep it real'. if keeping it real means to stay a nickle and dimer their whole lives then, wtf? I can see how they would love only being able to afford pizza and coke 52 weeks a yr. Who wouldn't love that? (end sarcasm).

Just like usplabs; people (some people) want them to stay the same company that shipped product in those little cheap white containers with a label stuck to it, underground style...'keep it real' and don't promote product in 'the evil gnc'.... I hate gnc but I am not the one paying jacob's rent/mortgage or feeding his family (if he has kids/wife) dunno...but still. The whole 'dont sell out' stigma has gotten over used to death...its completely broken and very few know what it means now a days.
 
BodyWizard; said:
I think a lot of newcomers here completely miss an important fact: many (if not most) of the company reps on AM were respected board members & stand-up guys long before their rep status: it's WHY they were chosen as reps.

Even the company folks who came here with/after their co's sponsorship have been BOARD MEMBERS AND SUPPORTERS: honest, wide-ranging participants in the board as a whole.

Consequently, "supplement pimps' like you find on other boards don't do well here - and not every company that wanders in here stays.

Since the OP is brand-new here, he can't know this yet. This is why the advice to new members is ALWAYS to lurk, get to know who's who before you post, use the search & dig through the archives.

That's how you learn - and that's when you can teach as well.
Click to expand...

Good post! :)
 
hey at least he didnt post this in the anonymous section. dude, you are a noob so you cant complain....yet. if you dont like it then go join another board.
 
OP, you have not learned this yet, but w/the supplement industry, the term "BUYER BEWARE" is so fitting. Consider yourself fortunate that you are conscious of the fact that there are flakes, lies, bogus products, pimping, jackoffery, etc. Also consider yourself fortunate that you are conscious of fact that there are quality products, efficacious products, honest members, etc. If you intend on purchasing any product, it's in your best interest to do your own efficacy research rather than relying on word of mouth (hearsay).
 
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