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Strength or Aesthetics

Strength or Aestetics

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Congealed said:
Btw; how does Jas123 at 6'0, 220 do 405x12 Squat? Are those full parallel squats? Damn. I can't do that. I might get 5-6.
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I could do a single real-fast negative rep *flexes muscles* mmm ahhh (if I get 2 guys to help me pick it up in the first place). *walks out the room with imaginary barrels under arms*
 
Im more strength than size, but thats doesnt mean I want to look like I bench 185 when I bench 345. Im about 60/40 I say, mass comes anyway so lift heavy!
 
TripDog said:
Oh snap my bad.

Here's a sample from what I did yesterday

-warm up 5 mins on elip
-incline chest press(machine) 5 sets
-cable crossovers(on knees)
-sprint on eliptical till heart rate is steady 170 (like 2 mins)
-incline DB fly's(slow reps/tight squeeze at top)
-Bentover rows(in smith, high reps 25+ to jack heart rate up)
-DB shrugs (high reps 20+)
-Elip 2 min sprint
-DB seated bent over side lateral raises(high reps)
-side bends (high reps)
-finish 20mins on elip Steady heartrate 160
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Intense!
 
Congealed said:
Btw; how does Jas123 at 6'0, 220 do 405x12 Squat? Are those full parallel squats? Damn. I can't do that. I might get 5-6.
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It was to a ~16'' box as an event in a strongman contest. It was measured to parallel, but I think it looks a little high in the video which is in my training log. It was a big PR for me, but guys like Kabuki and Alexander can squat quite a bit more at only 15-25# heavier.
 
tripdog, can you post an example of what your leg day looks like? I'm starting to train legs more than anything else because I feel it's the most important muscle group to train.
 
ITHURTZ said:
Im more strength than size, but thats doesnt mean I want to look like I bench 185 when I bench 345. Im about 60/40 I say, mass comes anyway so lift heavy!
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I'm with you on this,but i care more about size and say strength will come with size.Yet sometimes i do low reps to specifically increase strength,to be able to hit higher reps with more weight.Imo if you did nothing but 100 rep sets,in so many years you will be doing 100 reps with more weight then when you started.So all training,imo,increases size or strength sooner or later one way or the other.But i want to be huge and thats all their is to it.Getting stronger feels just as good as getting bigger as well,and it seems one comes with the other.My two pennies
 
Aesthetics all the way man! You can look strong while not being as long as you're ripped, but you can't look ripped if your not if your strong.

Did that make sense?
 
Bang for the buck, bites harder than his bite, pound for pound, effective and efficient. I play sports and looking good is nice for the ladies but what happens when they see you suck and get rocked. Do you want to drive a sweet car or truck with no balls? I dont. Its a matter of function for me big, small i still want to be strong vs large and comparatively weak.
 
somewhatgifted said:
Bang for the buck, bites harder than his bite, pound for pound, effective and efficient. I play sports and looking good is nice for the ladies but what happens when they see you suck and get rocked. Do you want to drive a sweet car or truck with no balls? I dont. Its a matter of function for me big, small i still want to be strong vs large and comparatively weak.
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I hear this alot,but I have yet to meet a big muscular guy who is weak.I don't think they exist.Ofcourse some are stronger than others,but thats how it goes.Also,alot of the time these big guys are using proper form with a weight that allows them to get an optimal contraction.Whereas smaller guys pick the heaviest weight possibl that they can rock,bounce,and throw for x amount of reps.Ignoring proper form and mind muscle connection.I use weights all the time that are smaller than the guys that are smaller then me.But i'm using proper form trying to abuse the muscle.Not show off for my shortcommings and abuse the joints.(ever notice ego lifters are always small and or out of shape)
 
pantera101 said:
I hear this alot,but I have yet to meet a big muscular guy who is weak.I don't think they exist.Ofcourse some are stronger than others,but thats how it goes.Also,alot of the time these big guys are using proper form with a weight that allows them to get an optimal contraction.Whereas smaller guys pick the heaviest weight possibl that they can rock,bounce,and throw for x amount of reps.Ignoring proper form and mind muscle connection.I use weights all the time that are smaller than the guys that are smaller then me.But i'm using proper form trying to abuse the muscle.Not show off for my shortcommings and abuse the joints.(ever notice ego lifters are always small and or out of shape)
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I hear ya buddy. My weights have come down lately, but it's due to the fact that my TUT has increased considerably and I've been lifting the weight under much more control. Not that I had bad form before, but I've been doing my reps much slower and have really noticed a difference. I'm also much more sore than normal.
 
pantera101 said:
I hear this alot,but I have yet to meet a big muscular guy who is weak.I don't think they exist.Ofcourse some are stronger than others,but thats how it goes.Also,alot of the time these big guys are using proper form with a weight that allows them to get an optimal contraction.Whereas smaller guys pick the heaviest weight possibl that they can rock,bounce,and throw for x amount of reps.Ignoring proper form and mind muscle connection.I use weights all the time that are smaller than the guys that are smaller then me.But i'm using proper form trying to abuse the muscle.Not show off for my shortcommings and abuse the joints.(ever notice ego lifters are always small and or out of shape)
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I have. Almost every muscular gym rat I know is weak. I'm at the Jersey Shore and I get a lot of guidos from the tristate area that can stand around and throw up a load on the bench... or... oh no... or can REALLY max out that Cybex tricep machine.

"Hey dude, you'd better watch out! I just maxxed out the Triceptitron!"

Most meat-heads I know have no stamina as well. That's a hell of a good thing to impress people with a cable curl, but when you get winded and can't speak clearly after walking a flight of stairs, that speaks louder than words about your conditioning.

How can we define strong? Like Rocky says in his new movie? "...the ability to get hit and keep moving forward" deal? The ability to execute set after set of resistance with minimal rest? Or... to have some nice stats to write in a book or post on a website?
 
Then they must of been insanely weak to begin with.As you get bigger,you get stronger.I have never shoock my head at how weak a big guy is.I do at how strong some small guys are.But they are stronger than average and either don't know proper form,or only care abput strength gains.Or thats the only way they see results cause they haven't learned or accepted how to eat yet.
 
that's asking, basically: intimidated or envied?

i would personally rather have people envious of me as opposed to afraid of me. we all want both, and to a degree, you get both if you do it right. i still haven't figured out how, but i've seen it done, and know it can be done, and WILL DO IT!!!!
 
pantera101 said:
Then they must of been insanely weak to begin with.As you get bigger,you get stronger.I have never shoock my head at how weak a big guy is.I do at how strong some small guys are.But they are stronger than average and either don't know proper form,or only care abput strength gains.Or thats the only way they see results cause they haven't learned or accepted how to eat yet.
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I know what you are saying, however, there's more than a 'rarity' of big dudes I know who are by no means stronger than the smaller guy nearest them. I guess they may have a good 'cheated bench press' capability, but that's the extent for a lot of them.
 
Manimalia said:
that's asking, basically: intimidated or envied?

i would personally rather have people envious of me as opposed to afraid of me. we all want both, and to a degree, you get both if you do it right. i still haven't figured out how, but i've seen it done, and know it can be done, and WILL DO IT!!!!
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We all want both and a few of us have it.
 
Force of Green said:
I know what you are saying, however, there's more than a 'rarity' of big dudes I know who are by no means stronger than the smaller guy nearest them. I guess they may have a good 'cheated bench press' capability, but that's the extent for a lot of them.
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I've only been to one gym,but the guys there seem to have a direct link between size and strength.More size,more strength.Like I said earlier,most big guys know how to get a proper muscle mind connection,and they use it to grow.It requires using a weight thats not "too heavy."I remember in high school my coach telling me to back the weight down.I was pissed and thought he was crazy cause I was lifting it.Same principle applies to bb'ing.Just cause you can lift it for x amount of reps,doesn't mean it's not "too heavy"Smaller guys don't know this and think the only way to get results is to lift the weight that you have to do everything possile to lift x amount of times.A bb'r will use a weight that allows him to feel the muscle work.See what I mean?The BB'r could go heavier at the expense of proper form.
 
The only time I got one without the other,is before I learned about eating lots of food.I got stronger,but not bigger.Now that I eat lots of calories every 2-3 hrs,I get both bigger and stronger.Am I alone on this?
 
pantera101 said:
The only time I got one without the other,is before I learned about eating lots of food.I got stronger,but not bigger.Now that I eat lots of calories every 2-3 hrs,I get both bigger and stronger.Am I alone on this?
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Yeah, I have had the same thing. Your body undergoes extensive neuro-muscular adaptation. Your body will wire a super efficient network configuration so when you execute the movement, your action potentials will tell what muscles to contract and at exactly what time and more fibers will be recruited into the movement as more of the neurotransmitter receptors in the muscle are activated.

I was 19 years old, 175 lbs @ 6' tall and I will regularly doing incline dumbell press with 125 lb dumbells for about 8-10 reps and now I don't even go near that weight. I'm 25 now, 205 lbs and I switch the routine up so often I may do 80 lb dumbells for 15-18 and leave it at that.
 
Force of Green said:
Yeah, I have had the same thing. Your body undergoes extensive neuro-muscular adaptation. Your body will wire a super efficient network configuration so when you execute the movement, your action potentials will tell what muscles to contract and at exactly what time and more fibers will be recruited into the movement as more of the neurotransmitter receptors in the muscle are activated.
I was 19 years old, 175 lbs @ 6' tall and I will regularly doing incline dumbell press with 125 lb dumbells for about 8-10 reps and now I don't even go near that weight. I'm 25 now, 205 lbs and I switch the routine up so often I may do 80 lb dumbells for 15-18 and leave it at that.
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Well you lost me there!LOL!!!Personally,getting stronger is a means to an end to getting bigger for me.My motto is "If you want to look the same tomorrow,then do what you did today"
 
pantera101 said:
Well you lost me there!LOL!!!Personally,getting stronger is a means to an end to getting bigger for me.My motto is "If you want to look the same tomorrow,then do what you did today"
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haha. Good motto. That's why I keep changing it up!
 
pantera101 said:
I've only been to one gym,but the guys there seem to have a direct link between size and strength.More size,more strength.Like I said earlier,most big guys know how to get a proper muscle mind connection,and they use it to grow.It requires using a weight thats not "too heavy."I remember in high school my coach telling me to back the weight down.I was pissed and thought he was crazy cause I was lifting it.Same principle applies to bb'ing.Just cause you can lift it for x amount of reps,doesn't mean it's not "too heavy"Smaller guys don't know this and think the only way to get results is to lift the weight that you have to do everything possile to lift x amount of times.A bb'r will use a weight that allows him to feel the muscle work.See what I mean?The BB'r could go heavier at the expense of proper form.
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:clap2: yup yuuuuup!
 
I'm glad I made this thread, there is a lot of great imput, and feedback. :thumbsup:
 
TripDog said:
I'm glad I made this thread, there is a lot of great imput, and feedback. :thumbsup:
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I like it!Did you get bigger or is that a better angle?No offense,but before I thought you were another skinny guy concerned with having a six pack who will never get big because of it.You're looking pretty good in that shot!(Hmmmm,people think bb's are gay because......?)
 
pantera101 said:
I like it!Did you get bigger or is that a better angle?No offense,but before I thought you were another skinny guy concerned with having a six pack who will never get big because of it.You're looking pretty good in that shot!(Hmmmm,people think bb's are gay because......?)
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LOL, same size, different angle. ...Thanks man.
 
AM07 said:
But isn't strength the true sign of athletic ability, as long as you can put that strength to use?

There isn't much athleticism in bodybuilding, IMO.
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OED defines 'athletic' as "physically strong, fit, and active", so no, strength is *not* the true sign of athletic ability. Bodybuilding/strength training is at least as much athletic as it is cosmetic, but ultimately, it's what you do with it that matters. Being strong doesn't make one an athlete any more than being pretty makes one an athlete; neither one will , unless you're able to DO SOMETHING with it. The extent to which one is an athlete depends heavily on the extent to which your activities and pursuits are athletic.

Put it another way: you can be strong, you can be fit, but neither (together or separately) will "make you an athlete" - get you laid OR paid: you need an activity for that. You need to use that strength and that fitness FOR SOMETHING that actually requires that you be fit and strong in order to participate and accomplish and achieve.

The entire concept of athletics comes from the ancient Greeks, and is an essential component of the Greek idea of human perfection: a healthy mind in a healthy body, which you'll often see rendered as a motto: "Mens Sana in Corpore Sano". The school WAS the gym - in Germany & Scandinavia, the equivalent of US 'high school' is *still* called 'gymnasium'. To be an athlete was to "compete to win", and while it absolutely involved physical competition and exertion (the origin of 'sport'), it also equally included intellectual and conceptual exertions and competitions. The end result was the recognition of the athletes - those who had mastered the arts of survival AND the arts of living.

A trained and capable member of society, strong and fit both mentally and physically - ready and able to GO DO SOMETHING.

(aren't you guys lucky I'm not busy this morning? :numbered: )
 
both

MB
 
I train for both. I look at the pro bodybuilders and find their physiques disgusting, and know that many of their muscles are built based on mass training and not strength. on the other hand, tons of pro powerlifters look like giant jellybeans. I think strength training should be the primary goal because it's truly practical, and aesthetics come in a close second.
 
I'm still trying to figure out how you only train for one or the other.I know certain reps focus more on one or the other,but both size and strength come with eachother.

More muscle = stronger muscles.
More strength = bigger muscles.

I haven't seen a small powerlifter or a weak bb'r yet............I heard one guy put it this way.Strength is a side affect of bb'ing,and size is a side affect of power lifting.If powerlifters would cut they would be very physically pleasing to the eye.One did but I forget his name.He went from a barreled powerlifter to looking like he belongs on a bb'ing stage.
 
Vanity is important. Been working at this gym since I came back to Jersey and back into the swing of things... These girls at this restaraunt didn't think twice to say much when I was a bit chunkier ... nah mean?

...Now I go in a few months later and I have each one trying to get a conversation started with me. I'm not trying to sound conceded, but it's a sad concept of superficiality sometimes. I stay in shape for nobody, but ME. I live a bbers lifestyle for ME.

...I try to achieve great aesthetics for the b*tches though ;)
 
Force of Green said:
Vanity is important. Been working at this gym since I came back to Jersey and back into the swing of things... These girls at this restaraunt didn't think twice to say much when I was a bit chunkier ... nah mean?

...Now I go in a few months later and I have each one trying to get a conversation started with me. I'm not trying to sound conceded, but it's a sad concept of superficiality sometimes. I stay in shape for nobody, but ME. I live a bbers lifestyle for ME.

...I try to achieve great aesthetics for the b*tches though ;)
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True dat
 
Beautifully put Force!

And pantera are you talking about Beelzebub?
 
His name is Dave Gulledge.Here he is at 320.
 

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And here he is at 265 and carb depleted.A man who trains purely for strength as he is a competitive powerlifter.The second is fully carb loaded.
 

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ITHURTZ said:
god dam he is a ****ing BEAST
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Yes he is.My favorite muscle on him are his forearms for sure!I literally just started looking into DC training,and I'm fixing to start it after a few days off from the gym.Seeing him again and knowing he's a powerlifter training for strength is getting me excited about doing the DC training as it's all about getting stronger.
 
pantera101 said:
Yes he is.My favorite muscle on him are his forearms for sure!I literally just started looking into DC training,and I'm fixing to start it after a few days off from the gym.Seeing him again and knowing he's a powerlifter training for strength is getting me excited about doing the DC training as it's all about getting stronger.
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agreed, that dude is an animal. the thing about DC is, it kind of proves the majority of our answers to this threads question. BOTH! Dante explains that you will GROW AND RESHAPE your muscles completely and AT THE SAME TIME, you will gain lots of STRENGTH. i'm fvckin LOVING DC right now and it's only my 2nd session :lol:
 
Asethetics is an extra reward, and it helps your confidence for your image.

Shooting for strength helps to motivate you to achieve goals. which will carry over into your work ethic for everything. You need goals in your life.

Strength also carries over into your elder years, whereas the pump you gained through creatine and NO supplementation will wear off. If your constantly worried about how big your veins are, then you'll probably go to extreme measures (pro-hormones & more) to get what you want. That's where I draw the line.

We all look in the mirror after a workout, resistance or cardio, haha.
 
jas123 said:
It's technically clean and jerk. Press implies that you do a standing military press to lift the weight over your head (ie, no leg drive).

Don't know too much about their training routines but they include a lot of ATG front squats and core strengthening exercises. I doubt any of the best ones are natural despite the testing.
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sad sad sad some one to doubt the limitless human potencial
 
strength never got me laid... tho some girls do find it impressive being around a strong man who they can hang off

think of it this way... how many times do you hear women talk about "oh i love a guy with abs... broad shoulders... big arms..." blabla

u get the point
its all about the p...y :)
 
ps holy crap @ that pic, pantera...
tell me thats natural? and wtf do i have to eat to get to that size and look that good.. and wtf is his routine!?

thats what i am aiming for
perfect.
 
thesinner said:
Yeah, I kinda lost interest in skating near the end of high school, simply because I got tired of sharing the skate park with 10-year-olds who's mom's would come to watch them skate. Probably would've been a lot cooler if kids who skateboard had hot mom's, but from my experiences....no.
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After high school I would nail the 10yr old kids moms, some of them around here were pretty damn hot..... Worked out for me! Teach their kid some stuff and they are all for it!

Anyway, I go for looks, strenth comes along with proper training and nutrition as well though. Even as I put on lean mass, I break PRs pretty consistantly. Its just all how you train.
 
little bit of both for me. i've got to cap myself at around 200 lbs, because my knees can't handle more than that IMO. once i hit that 200 lb mark, its pure strength gains for me.
 
Most (99%) of women I come across are shallow, superficial, creatures. I'd definitely want to keep and gain strength, however, I don't need to be benching heavy weight like a retard. Aesthetics for the ladies.
 
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