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How to "pulse" orals

I already started my own thread about this proposal, but I thought I'd jump in here and see if there are any differing opinions. [And I don't know what you can talk about anymore, DrD, but I always value your opinion. So feel free to contribute, if you can (even if you have to keep it kinda "general").]

The Cycle:
This would be a pulse cycle -- either 2on/5off, or 3on/4off, for as long as possible before a break is needed. [I'm wondering if the 2on/5off (or maybe even the 3on/4off) could be run indefinitely, without needing a break.]

The components:
Superdrol (original Designer Supps Superdrol) @ 20mg/day
4-AD (real 4-androstenediol, not the new AMS stuff) @ 400mg/day
1,4-andro @ 400mg/day

The reasoning:
I'm hoping for a good "synergistic" stack, with superdrol as the main mass-building component. The other 2 components are meant to complement the superdrol: 4-AD to combat the lethargy and sustain libido (and possibly help with lipids?); and 1,4-andro to increase appetite (feeding the gains). [And DrD says 1,4-andro is a decent AI, which should handle any aromitization of the testosterone to which 4-AD converts.]
The dosing of the 4-AD and the 1,4-andro may seem low, but remember that they are not really included for mass-building (that's superdrol's job), but more for their other benefits (hence, the "synergy"). Furthermore, although the individual doses may seem low, when you add them all up, the total "stack" should be sufficiently dosed (especially for a smaller guy like me -- 5'6" 140lbs).
I'm currently lining up my support supps (for liver, lipid, HPTA, etc).
Any suggestions regarding any part of this proposal will be appreciated (including the support supps). Thanks.
 
Hey Dr. D, you mentioned people dosing for two weeks, then taking two weeks off, and then doing another two weeks. Can someone still expect to see reasonable gains using this method and if you are only running it for two weeks with a mild compound such as Epistane would there be much of a need for a post cycle therapy and if so what would you recommend?
 
Any time you run a methyl steroid a PCT is highly advisable. I would recommend having a SERM on hand and also getting your blood checked pre cycle just so you know of any problems you may not be currently aware of.

Cycle support, milk thistle, hawthorn etc will help you stay healthy.

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
drewh10987 said:
Hey Dr. D, you mentioned people dosing for two weeks, then taking two weeks off, and then doing another two weeks. Can someone still expect to see reasonable gains using this method and if you are only running it for two weeks with a mild compound such as Epistane would there be much of a need for a post cycle therapy and if so what would you recommend?
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You are talking two weeks pulsed then a week off then 2 weeks pulsed again right? I'd guess with epistane that 4-7lbs would be reasonable for that 5 weeks, maybe a little more depending on what you use with it (like if you take hyperdrol x2 as your booster). For PCT, its much harder to say. you may not need anything, or you can follow any of the post cycles already in this thread. Hyperdrol X2 alone should be enough, assuming you are only talking about 30mg epistane 3x a week each of those 4 on weeks.
 
I'm currently on a 4 week pulse of m-drol @ 30mg 4 times per week and i'm on week 3 but my weight seems like it has topped out...i weigh 263 so should i go up to 40mg on my last week or just finish the cycle at 30mg???
I gained 10lbs but most of it was in my first 2 weeks.
 
pman said:
I'm currently on a 4 week pulse of m-drol @ 30mg 4 times per week and i'm on week 3 but my weight seems like it has topped out...i weigh 263 so should i go up to 40mg on my last week or just finish the cycle at 30mg???
I gained 10lbs but most of it was in my first 2 weeks.
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i dont see a reason for upping the dosage. feel free to stop the cycle perhaps and save those 1 week of pills left for another one.

others might disagree with this. but i dont see a big issue you already got most of ur gains
 
nycste said:
i dont see a reason for upping the dosage. feel free to stop the cycle perhaps and save those 1 week of pills left for another one.

others might disagree with this. but i dont see a big issue you already got most of ur gains
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Yeah...this might be a better option the more i think about it...thanks for the advise
 
EasyEJL said:
You are talking two weeks pulsed then a week off then 2 weeks pulsed again right? I'd guess with epistane that 4-7lbs would be reasonable for that 5 weeks, maybe a little more depending on what you use with it (like if you take hyperdrol x2 as your booster). For post cycle therapy, its much harder to say. you may not need anything, or you can follow any of the post cycles already in this thread. Hyperdrol X2 alone should be enough, assuming you are only talking about 30mg epistane 3x a week each of those 4 on weeks.
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So just theoretically speaking, if I was to go this route and lets say use hyperdrol x2 as my booster, I would take it on days I was not pulsing and then take it every day during the two weeks off and then again only on off days of the second pulse phase. Then following up the second pulse phase I would run hyperdrol x2 every day for a couple more weeks. Is that correct? I would also pick up a SERM just in case.
 
pman said:
I'm currently on a 4 week pulse of m-drol @ 30mg 4 times per week and i'm on week 3 but my weight seems like it has topped out...i weigh 263 so should i go up to 40mg on my last week or just finish the cycle at 30mg???
I gained 10lbs but most of it was in my first 2 weeks.
Click to expand...

I agree with nycste, the back pumps + lethargy would be moderately crippling at 40, and thats where superdrol even on a pulse starts to become suppressive. just do the math, 40x3 = 120, just 20mg under 20x7.
 
drewh10987 said:
So just theoretically speaking, if I was to go this route and lets say use hyperdrol x2 as my booster, I would take it on days I was not pulsing and then take it every day during the two weeks off and then again only on off days of the second pulse phase. Then following up the second pulse phase I would run hyperdrol x2 every day for a couple more weeks. Is that correct? I would also pick up a SERM just in case.
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I think that would be fine, at 20 or 30mg of epistane on pulse days, and you likely wouldn't need a serm (but always better to have and not need than need and not have :)).
 
ok i don't want these rats to die so as a precaution i have some toremefine citrate for them. after 3 -4 weeks at 10 to 20mg 3x a week how much do you think i should give them torem and for how long. also how the heck can ii measure this, the bottle is 30ml a@ 50mg/ml???
 
Solitude said:
I would get another mouse, and put him under a different treatment.

I'm thinking of a combination between mouse number 1,2, and 4.

Which is more like this:
5th Mouse: MWF 3 weeks 20mgs superdrol with a female mouse hormone inhibitor on the other days, then take 3 weeks off, repeat.


I'm planning to perform a similar experiment to my own mouse using an old and rare poison called Ergomax LMG (AX Version) that I manage to acquired a few weeks back. It is known to be a highly androgenic poison, which I hope will bring out the angry alpha beast in my little rodent.

It will be a short and intense cycle spanning for 3 weeks dose at 30 mg, which I expect to not cause any shutdown.

My mouse: 8 dosing at 30 mg of Ergomax in 3 weeks with a female mouse hormone inhibitor ED, then take 3 weeks off, might repeat or might not.
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let us know how it turns out; 3 weeks at 30 mwf without pct should be interesting,
 
Hey guys hows your diets looking while pulsing?

Im about to start the sd pulse cycle

(SD 10MG 3x a week - weeks 1-2)
(SD 20MG 3x a week - weeks 3-6)

HX2 and Cycle Support Off Days (along with a whole bunch of the usual suspects, salmon oil, celery extract etc..)

Just curious what kind of calorie consumption you guys are having (those on a bulk). Are you consuming the same amount of calories on "off" days, because i cant remember the exact life length of SD.
 
StellaArtois said:
ok i don't want these rats to die so as a precaution i have some toremefine citrate for them. after 3 -4 weeks at 10 to 20mg 3x a week how much do you think i should give them torem and for how long. also how the heck can ii measure this, the bottle is 30ml a@ 50mg/ml???
Click to expand...

Torm is known for bringing back the "boys" quickly. Also considering this is also a mild compound you are using, I would think you would be back in a matter of days. People have reported being back to a healthy size / libido in three days at the dosing protocol of

120/ 90/ 60/ 30.

If in liquid form (not sure if there) I believe the standard format is to use a liquid ml dropper. From the information given I would say that for 120mg that would be 2ml full droppers and 1/5th of a dropper to equal 50 + 50 + 20 = 120mg.

Someone else might wanna chime in here though. Maybe just go for 2ml worth on the first day then 1ml +4/5th's of a ml to get your 90mg for the second day etc and then continue to taper etc.

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
just in case anyone was wondering this is what another member of the board suggested

"usually the droppers are metered as .25 ml increments. Or you may want to see if you can get an oral syringe at a local drugstore or veterinary supply, as that is frequently used to give animals medications

just divide by 50. So 90/50 = 1.8, 60/50 = 1.2, 30/50 = .6"


he saying divide by 50 because my bottle is 30ml @ 50mg/ml.

also do you think a bottle like that alone should be enough or would i run out?
 
ON CYCLE:
IBE Epistane @ 10,20,30 mg PULSE (M/W/F, Larger dose PRE) / ; Dermabolics e-form OFF days
IBE Epistane @ 30-40 mg PULSE (M/W/F, Larger dose PRE) / ; Dermabolics e-form OFF days
IBE Epistane @ 30-40 mg PULSE (M/W/F, Larger dose PRE) / ; Dermabolics e-form OFF days
IBE Epistane @ 40-50 mg PULSE (M/W/F, Larger dose PRE) / ; Dermabolics e-form OFF days

post cycle therapy:
E-form if needed (SERM as backup)

1) my question is basically whether i am suppose to expect a full post cycle therapy? does the AI used on cycle mean i may not need to?
2) if i need a PCT what should is look like?
 
I have an interesting cycle idea. Let me know what you think. Since it is suggested that you take a test booster on off days (or ED for max results) when pulsing. What if someone did a cycle of Epistane and dosed 4 times a week. Here's where it gets a little interesting (at least in my eyes). What if for your test booster someone was to use Dermacrine Sustain. Let's say they applied it everyday throughout the cycle and then continued for another four weeks after the end of the cycle. I have read logs where people have used Sustain in place of a SERM for their PCT. In this case I would think the Sustain would cover your test booster needs during the pulse and then cover your PCT needs once you quit pulsing. Because of the need for a less intense pulse cycle with a pulse I would think that Sustain would almost certainly be enough to get your body back to normal. Any thoughts?
 
T H E O R E M said:
ON CYCLE:
IBE Epistane @ 10,20,30 mg PULSE (M/W/F, Larger dose PRE) / ; Dermabolics e-form OFF days
IBE Epistane @ 30-40 mg PULSE (M/W/F, Larger dose PRE) / ; Dermabolics e-form OFF days
IBE Epistane @ 30-40 mg PULSE (M/W/F, Larger dose PRE) / ; Dermabolics e-form OFF days
IBE Epistane @ 40-50 mg PULSE (M/W/F, Larger dose PRE) / ; Dermabolics e-form OFF days

post cycle therapy:
E-form if needed (SERM as backup)

1) my question is basically whether i am suppose to expect a full post cycle therapy? does the AI used on cycle mean i may not need to?
2) if i need a post cycle therapy what should is look like?
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could i use 6-oxo in place of the e-form for a off day AI, or the is the transdermal-formastane absorbed quick enough to work, and the 6-oxo would lag behind? Only thing is, very low estrogen can be suppressive too, its good to keep a proper balance.
 
Im curious,

So if we are pulsing these compounds in an attempt to minimize the side effects, im just wondering how long you could keep these "pulses" going.

Im guessing a 3x weekly (or less) would be the most benefical, but if the lipid values and liver function stay good say through to week 8, Im guessing the receptor sites then become "full". Is this right?

I know you need a period of time off from normal cycles for the receptor sites to "refresh" (and your body to return to a period of normal homeostasis), but im wondering what the length of time for these "refreshments" is? And would it be a shorter period of time on the pulse cycles.

Also, if you pulse say twice a week, would the receptors ever become "full" ?
 
Can You Pulse for a 5 Day Work Out Schedule?

Currently I have been given a bottle of CTD Labs Decabolen. Each capsule contains 25mg of Halodrol, 10mg Superdrol, 10mg Phera-Plex. They recommend 2 caps a day for 4 weeks just like most companies. Looking at the dosages makes me think this would be better to pulse because a lot of members have mentioned running Halodrol at 75-100mg, not to mention all the members that run Superdrol at 30-40mg and Phera aat 30-45mg.

So here is the question, is there a 5 day pulse cycle? I train Mon-Fri with Sat & Sun off. Could I take three tabs spread through the day on training days and then off on the weekend? Would there be any benefit to pulse this way?
At the end of the week you would end up with 25mg more Halo, and 10mg more of each Superdrol & PP. With one bottle the cycle would only be three weeks, could it be extended to 6 weeks or is there too little cycling going on??

I apprieciate all imput you guys may have!
 
dawaro said:
Currently I have been given a bottle of CTD Labs Decabolen. Each capsule contains 25mg of Halodrol, 10mg Superdrol, 10mg Phera-Plex. They recommend 2 caps a day for 4 weeks just like most companies. Looking at the dosages makes me think this would be better to pulse because a lot of members have mentioned running Halodrol at 75-100mg, not to mention all the members that run Superdrol at 30-40mg and Phera aat 30-45mg.

So here is the question, is there a 5 day pulse cycle? I train Mon-Fri with Sat & Sun off. Could I take three tabs spread through the day on training days and then off on the weekend? Would there be any benefit to pulse this way?
At the end of the week you would end up with 25mg more Halo, and 10mg more of each Superdrol & PP. With one bottle the cycle would only be three weeks, could it be extended to 6 weeks or is there too little cycling going on??

I apprieciate all imput you guys may have!
Click to expand...

that would not be considered a pulse and basically defeats the purpose. you will definitely get shut down if you ran it 5 days in a row as you proposed and took the weekends off. you might as well run the full three week cycle if you were going to go that route. i would stick to 3 days a week if youre wanting to pulse it
 
what about Animal and others who say if you understand the mechanism of transcription and how AS bind to cells including those of the HPTA, then the idea of pulsing is a falacy?

same_old said:
your concerns are certainly very valid.

people in the community have been using the "morning dbol" technique for decades to avoid complete suppression and still make gains that naturally wouldnt be possible. morning dbol is typically done on an ED basis, and the dose is low...those are the real differences, but the idea is similar: reduced gains with reduced sides, and possible shutdown avoidance.

so is it for real? i think i've seen a clinical study that showed that small amounts of anavar are suppressive when used ED...and maybe bloodwork that showed that a guy using morning dbol had good blood test results, but no data on suppression.

worth looking into.

my 2cc: i used "morning tbol" @ 20mg for 30 days, with no other steroids. i had an increase in libido that dropped LOW as soon as i came off...suggesting that i was in fact suppressed. i did do post cycle therapy afterwards of course, and came back to square after about a week.

if this pulse method works, as verified by bloodwork, i would be the first in line as i am always looking to reduce sides, avoid suppression and still make gains.

and i personally think the issue of "pre-WO versus 1st thing AM" for suppression minimization deserves some discussion....
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Hey guys,

I have searched through about half of the pages of this thread and haven't found what im looking for :o, I am planning on doing a EPI pulse, and i also have 2 bottles of 11-oxo.
I was thinking of doing EPI at 40mg 3xWK for 3 weeks 2 weeks off, then another 3weeks followed by the 11-oxo at the suggested dosage for one one bottle. I am planning a recomp cycle, then a bulk cycle.

Is it viable to use 11-oxo with EPI?

Any suggestion's of a good way to work the 11-oxo into the pulse?

I also have 2 bottles of 6-oxo extreme and a tub of cycle support on the way,

would anyone like to help me design something workable with this lot? :).

Lets get creative :P.
 
hey guys iam planing an pulsing halo d(h50 clone) i weight 170 pounds should i take 50mg a day or more? I will be taking it 3 day a week. Thanks guys in advance i plan an starting next week

oh and should i take one 25mg pill prior to workout and one after or both at the same time?
 
DR.D said:
6-oxo-E is a poor choice if your looking for an anti-estrogen, for a lot of reasons. I would keep the dose low.
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Oh dear this is what i have :(, is there any particular reason besides the pricing? I thought the trans reservtrol would have been helpful?
 
zpnq said:
... I thought the trans reservtrol would have been helpful?
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It depends on the form of resveratrol and the way it is processed. I already posted on this somewhere here, breaking down the flaw of each component in that formula.
 
oh dr d just fyi, i'm now at about 3 weeks in on 1g/day of quercetin with 2g/day of resveratrol and I haven't noticed libido effects yet. I'm a little iffy as to whether I would continue this or not when I go to do a cycle of 1-t ethergels as I found that they all compete for the same liver spots so in theory continuing taking this during that cycle would further increase time in bloodstream for all 3, but who knows by how much
 
EasyEJL said:
oh dr d just fyi, i'm now at about 3 weeks in on 1g/day of quercetin with 2g/day of resveratrol and I haven't noticed libido effects yet. ...
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No effects on libido either way, pos or neg? And when you say 2g res, you mean 4g of the 50% stuff?
 
DR.D said:
It depends on the form of resveratrol and the way it is processed. I already posted on this somewhere here, breaking down the flaw of each component in that formula.
Click to expand...

ok , i'll start the 50 page search for it when i have more time :o lol,

any opinions on 11-oxo and epi togerther ina pulse?

Would 11-oxo be good as an anti cort?
 
DR.D said:
No effects on libido either way, pos or neg? And when you say 2g res, you mean 4g of the 50% stuff?
Click to expand...

yeah, 4g of 50%. maybe slightly heightened libido, not much. All other sexual aspects are noticeably enhanced. I'm not finding desire any higher, but i'm lasting longer, stronger erections, better orgasms, and ready to go again quicker. Actually the quercetin is doing much better for my allergies than any of the prescription meds i've taken.
 
EasyEJL said:
yeah, 4g of 50%. maybe slightly heightened libido, not much. All other sexual aspects are noticeably enhanced. I'm not finding desire any higher, but i'm lasting longer, stronger erections, better orgasms, and ready to go again quicker. Actually the quercetin is doing much better for my allergies than any of the prescription meds i've taken.
Click to expand...

Interesting. May suggest a vascular component. The bio's do reduce histamine release it seems, but I think the major benefit is in the modified capillary permeability. I wish it helped my allergies that well.
 
marcink99 said:
hey guys iam planing an pulsing halo d(h50 clone) i weight 170 pounds should i take 50mg a day or more? I will be taking it 3 day a week. Thanks guys in advance i plan an starting next week

oh and should i take one 25mg pill prior to workout and one after or both at the same time?
Click to expand...

anybody?
 
Thanks machine. :)

All sarcasm aside (and I apologize for that) the comments and criticisms are nonetheless legitimate.
 
machinehead said:
or not

Invalid Link Removed
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Oh crap, just wasted my money on this crap :(, I feel bad reselling it to another poor schmuck but, i really need something thats going to work and my money is tied up in this stuff :l.

I might go for 6-bromo if i can sell my current stock.


On another note, i have some Adrenosterone and was wondering about using it along side my EPI Pulse as a cort blocker, would these 2 work together? I was thinking Adrenosterone 225mg and a AI on the days i dont have EPI. note: this is for recomp.
 
I have not tried it personally, but I think it will work well enough if you stay at a reasonable dose. No more than 300mg 6-Oxo-AD is advisable IMO. Not sure how many caps that equals, but 600mg is too much after seeing the Baylor report on it. I was just making the point, it is not a very intelligently designed formula and all the components have the potential to antagonize each other. It should still "work" to some degree if it's all you've got though.

As for Adreno, 75mgx3/day is a good anti-cort, but that's all it is at that dose. No noticeable anabolic effect really.
 
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coolbreeze said:
what about Animal and others who say if you understand the mechanism of transcription and how AS bind to cells including those of the HPTA, then the idea of pulsing is a falacy?
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Add to that the fact that its steady state levels of AS that accentuate the anabolic properties and minimize the androgenic. Yet another counter point to Pulsing.
 
coolbreeze said:
what about Animal and others who say if you understand the mechanism of transcription and how AS bind to cells including those of the HPTA, then the idea of pulsing is a falacy?
Click to expand...

I'd say he's probably about as clueless as BigCat, and probably has his nose in the books more than the gym! Do you think this is some grand conspiracy to deceive the good folks at AM? How would Animal explain away the results that all these people have attained? What mechanism expresses that, placebo effect? lol

Pulsing clearly works. If you have ever tried it, you would know.
 
coolbreeze said:
Add to that the fact that its steady state levels of AS that accentuate the anabolic properties and minimize the androgenic. Yet another counter point to Pulsing.
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How in the heck can higher levels of androgenic compounds result in lower levels of androgenic sides? :confused:
 
ImJ2x said:
How in the heck can higher levels of androgenic compounds result in lower levels of androgenic sides? :confused:
Click to expand...

I think he's making the point that peaking levels are more androgenic than steady states of the same dose, in general. Which is a valid point. My point is... So what?! It doesn't explain why pulsing works and fails to dismiss the results that are observed.

Some guys just have a weakness to deny reality when it doesn't meet their ideals, but in my experience, you deny reality at your own peril.
 
ImJ2x said:
How in the heck can higher levels of androgenic compounds result in lower levels of androgenic sides? :confused:
Click to expand...

If you pulse a compound at 30mg per day (which by most accounts, would be considered an agressive dose) 3 times per week, that is only 90mg per week. As opposed to 20mg per day 7 days a week = 140mg per week. While each individual dose is indeed higher, the amount of the compound that is actually ingested is much less over time. In Addition, when you pulse, that time off (2 day break) allows the compound to clear your system and as a function of Homeostasis, your body will upregulate natural test production to account for the brief period of inhibition..

After having said that, I can attest to the validity of pulsing because it worked for me and I used very minimal post cycle therapy with no negative reprecussions


Just my @.02
 
DR.D said:
I think he's making the point that peaking levels are more androgenic than steady states of the same dose, in general.
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Hey D, I got something to ask you about comparison between steady states dosing (split evenly throughout the day) compared to higher peak levels (single large dose), but since I'm talking about conventional cycle, not a pulse, this might be out of topic, so I sent you a PM instead.

Check your PM bro, I'd like to know your opinion on which one will give greater gains overall?
 
Solitude said:
... Check your PM bro, I'd like to know your opinion on which one will give greater gains overall?
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Hey Sol, I'll check my PMs, but I'll tell you now that steady state should yield optimal anabolism per dose. Also optimal shutdown, that's the whole point in pulsing!
 
OK -- let me try to understand.
Are you guys saying to expect more of the negative androgenic sides (acne, baldness, BPH, etc.) from a (to use Leggo's example) 90mg/wk pulse than from a 140mg/wk "normal" cycle? That's just tough for me to accept. (I try to be open-minded; but not so open-minded that my brain falls out.)
 
EasyEJL said:
No, but it would be more if pulsed at 140mg/wk (46.67mg 3x) than 140mg/week steady state as 10mg every 12 hrs
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Possibly -- but so what?
The nature of pulsing results in far less consumption of the compounds. Which (in my mind, anyway) should equal less sides. [It also means less benefits. So it becomes a juggling act. Basically, if I can achieve 70% of the gains with only 30% of the sides, I'm in.]
 
ImJ2x said:
Are you guys saying to expect more of the negative androgenic sides (acne, baldness, BPH, etc.) from a (to use Leggo's example) 90mg/wk pulse than from a 140mg/wk "normal" cycle?
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No, just the opposite. Sides will be much less on a pulse. Like D mentioned above, your gains won't be as much as on a conventional cycle but inhibition will not be anywhere near as severe.

I'd rather gain 8 lbs in 8 weeks with no sides and keep it all then gain 12 lbs in 4 weeks with terrible sides and lose 4 lbs and have those PCT blues
 
ImJ2x said:
Possibly -- but so what?
The nature of pulsing results in far less consumption of the compounds. Which (in my mind, anyway) should equal less sides. [It also means less benefits. So it becomes a juggling act. Basically, if I can achieve 70% of the gains with only 30% of the sides, I'm in.]
Click to expand...

I agree :) I was just explaining the math of the coolbreeze's statement.
 
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