DEA pulls off widespread busts of steroid labs

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jomi822 said:
i live on a college campus. there are people here that came from nothing and are here only because of scholarship money and the donations of alumni. they received those scholarships because they WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF IN SCHOOL and made it apparent to someone they were worth investing a couple hundred thousand dollars in.

it is not impossible to pull yourself out of that situation. some people can do it, others cant. the people that cant, belong where they are. its that simple. it annoys the **** out of me when people blame societies problems on drugs, and not the weakness of the individual.
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Great post.
 
EasyEJL said:
I think you are mostly right jomi, but those kids are victims of their ****ty parents more than anything else.
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Yes, they're the victims of ****ty parents, but not in the sense that you seem to be arguing. Their parents had ****ty genes and their children were born of those ****ty genes. Sometimes people can magically conjure together good genes from trash-balls, but its pretty infrequent from my personal experience (and unfortunately, I know a lot of trash).
 
jomi822 said:
maybe their parents were successful because they worked harder than someone on welfare in the slums drinking their lives away with a heroine needle in their arm. your point supports mine even more. you would think these drugged up slum monkeys would kill themselves (by working hard) to get out of their situation for their future childrens' sake.
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Have you lived that life? Do you have any idea, truly, of what you’re talking about?

STFU! I find this extremely offensive an insulting to me and my family.

Do you have any idea how much more pain and hard work it takes to be successful from that position than others???

I do.

I watched my parents work themselves to death (literally).

You have no right to make judgments about someone’s work ethic or morality based solely on their circumstances.

And yes...I was one of those that received full ride scholarships to go to college....but it was based only in part on my handwork. I was Valedictorian and All State athlete, among other things, and it was still not enough to receive enough funding where I could leave my family, and not stay and help support them financially. I had to finally whore myself out to the media about my life and my circumstances to get the desired result. So in the end it had little to do with the efforts I had put into moving beyond these circumstances.

I can’t describe you upset some of your comments make me.


Sorry
Back to discussing how bad steroids are.
 
kabuki said:
Have you lived that life? Do you have any idea, truly, of what you’re talking about?

STFU! I find this extremely offensive an insulting to me and my family.

Do you have any idea how much more pain and hard work it takes to be successful from that position than others???

I do.

I watched my parents work themselves to death (literally).

You have no right to make judgments about someone’s work ethic or morality based solely on their circumstances.

And yes...I was one of those that received full ride scholarships to go to college....but it was based only in part on my handwork. I was Valedictorian and All State athlete, among other things, and it was still not enough to receive enough funding where I could leave my family, and not stay and help support them financially. I had to finally whore myself out to the media about my life and my circumstances to get the desired result. So in the end it had little to do with the efforts I had put into moving beyond these circumstances.

I can’t describe you upset some of your comments make me.


Sorry
Back to discussing how bad steroids are.
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I've been in your position, and I agree with him 100%. When I was younger I thought life was unfair, but then I closely and objectively watched my parents choices and action and realized that even though they had good intentions and are hard workers, they just didn't have what it takes and weren't willing to invest the time to figure out "why".

You'll find a common pattern amongst almost all people in a similar situation--of course there are always exceptions, but that should go without saying.
 
bigschmidt821 said:
well the best we can do is Post Cycle Support and perhaps a mega dosed AI...damnit!
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I didn't even look in this thread until right now and saw this.

VERY VERY sorry for the delay on POST Cycle Support. It should be shipping out to our resellers on Tuesday Oct 2nd.

:bruce1: :)


CROWLER
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
I've been in your position, and I agree with him 100%. When I was younger I thought life was unfair, but then I closely and objectively watched my parents choices and action and realized that even though they had good intentions and are hard workers, they just didn't have what it takes and weren't willing to invest the time to figure out "why".

You'll find a common pattern amongst almost all people in a similar situation--of course there are always exceptions, but that should go without saying.
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Very good point about not willing to invest the time to figure out why!!
 
kabuki said:
And yes...I was one of those that received full ride scholarships to go to college....but it was based only in part on my handwork. I was Valedictorian and All State athlete, among other things, and it was still not enough to receive enough funding where I could leave my family, and not stay and help support them financially. I had to finally whore myself out to the media about my life and my circumstances to get the desired result. So in the end it had little to do with the efforts I had put into moving beyond these circumstances.
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thank you for proving my point.
 
jomi822 said:
your students are not "victims" of drugs. they are victims of themselves. they are in the situation they are in because they do not have what it takes. if they didnt have drugs, they would certainly find something else to do the job. cough medicine, for example. the scum will always find ways to be scum. if they want to go out with a bang, by all means let them. why would you defend someone like that? i get the feeling some people just dont feel like letting people live with the consequences of their decisions.

some people just arent comfortable with the idea that they might not have something deep down that others do. case in point, the ability to fight addiction. i say let the animals wipe themselves out. stop making excuses for their weakness. and stop taking away my freedom because others cant handle themselves like human beithe founding fathers won ngs.
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You are right, my students are victims of themselves in the sense that there is actually a gene that is responsible for addiction. It doesn't always manifest itself in drugs it could come out in other ways but in many cases it is an organic disorder. This doesn't mean they don't deserve help learning how to deal with these urges in healthy ways without having to self-medicate. I am not excusing bad decisions however, if no one has ever taught them good decision making skills or that you can be better than what you see around you, how can we immediately punish them for something they never learned. I don't believe in excuses but I do believe that there is a reason for everything, nothing exists or occurs in a vacuum.

No one wants to take your freedom away. It's great that you firmly believe in something and that you feel that you have strong moral beliefs. It's even greater that we can voice our beliefs without retaliation. I would never want to take that away from you. The fact is that we live in a pluralistic society and that we need appropriate discourse in order to ensure that we continue to maintain the freedoms we all enjoy. You sound angry in your response and I can understand why as you feel that your beliefs are being attacked, however just keep in mind that if we are to be the greater society we must not let emotion overshadow logic and reason.
 
kabuki said:
Have you lived that life? Do you have any idea, truly, of what you’re talking about?

STFU! I find this extremely offensive an insulting to me and my family.

Do you have any idea how much more pain and hard work it takes to be successful from that position than others???

I do.

I watched my parents work themselves to death (literally).

You have no right to make judgments about someone’s work ethic or morality based solely on their circumstances.

And yes...I was one of those that received full ride scholarships to go to college....but it was based only in part on my handwork. I was Valedictorian and All State athlete, among other things, and it was still not enough to receive enough funding where I could leave my family, and not stay and help support them financially. I had to finally whore myself out to the media about my life and my circumstances to get the desired result. So in the end it had little to do with the efforts I had put into moving beyond these circumstances.

I can’t describe you upset some of your comments make me.


Sorry
Back to discussing how bad steroids are.
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Congrats on your perseverance. Everything is contextual and it may be hard for others to understand your position if they have never been there themselves. Smart decisions can only be made through education and awareness. :clap2:
 
psychospic said:
You are right, my students are victims of themselves in the sense that there is actually a gene that is responsible for addiction. It doesn't always manifest itself in drugs it could come out in other ways but in many cases it is an organic disorder. This doesn't mean they don't deserve help learning how to deal with these urges in healthy ways without having to self-medicate.
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Life in the 21st century is a strange conundrum. Normally animals with less than desirable traits are eventually weeded out by a process of natural selection, which, in the long run is the best outcome for the species advancement. However, we've advanced to the point where we're actually slowing the evolution of our species by piggy-backing the "less fit" and this huge and indescribably complex cerebral cortex we've got won't let us advance ourselves by obeying mother natures first law: natural selection. So strange to think about.
 
I also feel strongly about much that has been written here. I am not going to go into it really but I will say that "when you point the finger at someone, remember, there are three pointing back at you".

Be careful when you judge because you too could be judged the same way.

Love truly is a better way, and let me tell you there is alot of clanging going on here:

believe it or not it's from teh biblezors said:
1 Corinthians 13:1-8a and 13
If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
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I can see actually the judging first hand that is happening even to some here "yeah he's a drugged up steroid user"

Much love,

Neoborn
 
neoborn said:
I also feel strongly about much that has been written here. I am not going to go into it really but I will say that "when you point the finger at someone, remember, there are three pointing back at you".

Be careful when you judge because you too could be judged the same way.

Love truly is a better way, and let me tell you there is alot of clanging going on here:



I can see actually the judging first hand that is happening even to some here "yeah he's a drugged up steroid user"

Much love,

Neoborn
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but we know that isnt true. pick a side man
 
jomi822 said:
but we know that isnt true. pick a side man
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I can appreciate many of the points you make, but it is true that love covers all. Love never fails. If you have loved, you have fulfilled the law in full and without love nothing else you have counts for anything. That's his point. A real man does not crush a lesser man just because he has the power to do so. He finds it infinitely more empowering to lift that man up in love and try to help him. Come on bro, you gonna honestly tell me Jomi needs nobody but Jomi and you've never once been cut a break by somebody when you really didn't deserve one?
 
DR.D said:
I can appreciate many of the points you make, but it is true that love covers all. Love never fails. If you have loved, you have fulfilled the law in full and without love nothing else you have counts for anything. That's his point. A real man does not crush a lesser man just because he has the power to do so. He finds it infinitely more empowering to lift that man up in love and try to help him. Come on bro, you gonna honestly tell me Jomi needs nobody but Jomi and you've never once been cut a break by somebody when you really didn't deserve one?
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I honestly could not say it better than that....D, that really meant something to me and was / is a beautiful explanation.....thank you

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/estrogen od.
 
DR.D said:
I can appreciate many of the points you make, but it is true that love covers all. Love never fails. If you have loved, you have fulfilled the law in full and without love nothing else you have counts for anything. That's his point. A real man does not crush a lesser man just because he has the power to do so. He finds it infinitely more empowering to lift that man up in love and try to help him. Come on bro, you gonna honestly tell me Jomi needs nobody but Jomi and you've never once been cut a break by somebody when you really didn't deserve one?
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i didnt say anything about stepping on anyone. nothing i said had anything to do with being cut a break. drug users certainly arent cut any breaks. just ask the guys that got reeled in during raw deal.

true love? its a great idea, no doubt about it. I always seem to come at you from the wrong angle on these issues. you cant argue with the bible (word of god). how about original sin then? it is impossible for us to escape human nature, therefore we really arent capable of true love are we?

i dont know how we got into discussing theology so let me condense my point to the subject of this thread. Drug enforcement laws will never work because it is not the drug themselves that make a person scum/addict (and not all addicts are scum IMO). Making drugs illegal is will not prevent the type of conditions seen in an inner city low income settings.

furthermore, steroids do not fall into the same category as other drugs, both physiologically and in purpose used for.
 
This post of yours Jomi works much better for me, not that I require you to change at all, but it is worded very well and not cold of heart in its delivery.

Yes to love is difficult but that's what is so beautiful about f'ing up and being forgiven, it helps you to forgive others and maybe understand what they go through.

Life is tough, no one disagrees.

Much Love,

Neoborn
 
psychospic said:
You are right, my students are victims of themselves in the sense that there is actually a gene that is responsible for addiction. It doesn't always manifest itself in drugs it could come out in other ways but in many cases it is an organic disorder. This doesn't mean they don't deserve help learning how to deal with these urges in healthy ways without having to self-medicate. I am not excusing bad decisions however, if no one has ever taught them good decision making skills or that you can be better than what you see around you, how can we immediately punish them for something they never learned. I don't believe in excuses but I do believe that there is a reason for everything, nothing exists or occurs in a vacuum.
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Right, but how much does it have to cost the people who make the right decisions to try and continue to help those that dont? And how long do they get to continue to make bad decisions over and over again before you stop helping? Why do I have to pay so much in taxes, so that some idiot who won't stop having kids (that they probably won't raise properly anyhow) can live in a rent free apartment and get free food?
 
So in the end, there are two sides to the ledger. I agree with alot of what has been posted, and disagree with some. This country does indeed penalize anyone with even moderate success. Most of the social programs that rape my paycheck are worthless. However, when you read stories like that of psychospic it makes me think that some of it is worthwhile.
But getting back to the steroids, it amazes me that these are in the same category as cocaine and other "hard drugs".
I thought the whole scheduling thing was determined by: Theraputic value, potential for abuse, potential for addiction, potential for harmful side effects.
So, you can't really define abuse in any category because it literally means improper use. It seems to me that using steroids to benifit your health and well being is proper but what do I know, I'm not a journalist or a senator. Addiction, nope. Theraputic value, yes. Potential for harmful side effects, sure. Probably on par with tylenol. So, the answer then seems clear to me. Ban Tylenol! Oh wait, that would harm the drug companies. I'm all for capitalism and I don't mind people being filthy rich, but when it's done at the expense of personal liberties I get pissed. The beliefs this country was founded on are dead in the halls of justice. I am sad to say, but it is completely true, these values are never coming back.
/end rant.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Life in the 21st century is a strange conundrum. Normally animals with less than desirable traits are eventually weeded out by a process of natural selection, which, in the long run is the best outcome for the species advancement. However, we've advanced to the point where we're actually slowing the evolution of our species by piggy-backing the "less fit" and this huge and indescribably complex cerebral cortex we've got won't let us advance ourselves by obeying mother natures first law: natural selection. So strange to think about.
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We have "advanced" to the point where we are actually fighting advancement, how ironic. While this is partly true, you could also say that by your logic we shouldn't cure diseases because those individuals were too weak to fight them off; we shouldn't help those who are born with genetic mutations or abnormalities or handicaps because that is how mother nature and evolution intended for them to be. Just because things are a certain way does not mean thay have to be a certain way.

My only point through out this exchange is that narrow and extreme views only serve to alienate and villify others. Case in point: to those behind banning prohormones and cracking down on certain enclaves of the supplement industry, many of us on this board would be characterized as drug users and abusers regardless of whether or not we use steriods or PH's. The fact that we ingest certain substances to improve our physiques or performance, leads them to think that we do so solely for vain reasons and in their views we lack a sense of morality and humility that they feel is necessary and we are therefor lumped in with all that is despicable in their eyes.

Our greateness as a society and as individuals should not be contingent on our ability to villify, humiliate, and defeat others. We should be great only because when competing on a level playing field, we are able to to overcome and outperform rather than defeat and dominate.
 
EasyEJL said:
Right, but how much does it have to cost the people who make the right decisions to try and continue to help those that dont? And how long do they get to continue to make bad decisions over and over again before you stop helping? Why do I have to pay so much in taxes, so that some idiot who won't stop having kids (that they probably won't raise properly anyhow) can live in a rent free apartment and get free food?
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I do want to clarify that while I believe in helping others, I do not beleive in providing a bottomless source of help. Any help given should be done so with the end goal being self sufficiency. I also believe very much in the need for consequences that will educate the transgressor about his/her actions. To punish without trying to find a solution to society's ills does society a disservice and only creates self-perpetuating cycle.
 
jomi822 said:
Making drugs illegal is will not prevent the type of conditions seen in an inner city low income settings.

QUOTE]

I mentioned the iner city because I am based in an inner city setting and therefor most of my clients come from that setting. However my colleagues in rural and suburban areas see the same problems. Perhaps it isn't as overt due to the fact that there is more of an effort to keep family business private. However, young people and adult proffessionals in rural and suburban areas are not immune to heroine (in the form of Oxycontin), alocoholism tends to be higher, and Coke is usually the drug of choice especially in wealthier circles. The problem is widespread. Educating EVERYONE and recognizing that addiction is a disease and treating it as such rather than villifying those who suffer from it will only help. Does it still sicken me? Of course, but if I see a problem I feel that I must do my part in contributing to the advancement of society as a whole.

BTW, this type of discussion is great and we need more of it in this country. I respect your position and only ask that you respect mine.
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*sigh*

just saw am.com mentioned in an affavdavit by a postal inspector against universalkits.com.

universalkits is being reeled in as a distributor of drug paraphernalia and the owner may be going down for money laundering. looks like the chem companies may start going now.
 
kwyck, I think the war in Iraq is much more of a financial problem and burden on our country than illegal immigration. My generation, your generation, and the generation after me will be paying off these debts for years to come.

That's why I think the war is more important than illegal immigration. I can understand the Mexicans wanting to help themselves and better their life back at home, but taking advantage of the system here is bull****. **** giving them drivers' licenses, health insurance, schooling, and everything else they want.

Steroids are bad and make you kill people. Don't do it, or you'll end up like Benoit.
 
jomi822 said:
*sigh*

just saw am.com mentioned in an affavdavit by a postal inspector against universalkits.com.

universalkits is being reeled in as a distributor of drug paraphernalia and the owner may be going down for money laundering. looks like the chem companies may start going now.
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Man. You gots a link to that Jomi?

Gotta be due to the syno kits.
 
psychospic said:
I do want to clarify that while I believe in helping others, I do not beleive in providing a bottomless source of help. Any help given should be done so with the end goal being self sufficiency. I also believe very much in the need for consequences that will educate the transgressor about his/her actions. To punish without trying to find a solution to society's ills does society a disservice and only creates self-perpetuating cycle.
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Whats interesting in what I bolded above is that the exact same people who say that about welfare, section 8 housing, etc are the same people who think we should pull out of Iraq.

The problem is where to draw that line, and how. Is it punishing someone to let them starve to death because they won't take a job?
 
EasyEJL said:
Is it punishing someone to let them starve to death because they won't take a job?
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not really. if they wanted to eat, they would get a job. jesus, join the ****ing army, its always an option.

anyway, here is the u-kits indictment. i am very disturbed that anabolicminds is mentioned in the document. i hope these people burn.

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jomi822 said:
not really. if they wanted to eat, they would get a job. jesus, join the ****ing army, its always an option.

anyway, here is the u-kits indictment. i am very disturbed that anabolicminds is mentioned in the document. i hope these people burn.

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dang, and he was right here in tampa. There goes my chance of getting hs transdermal pGH-t COMPLETELY LEGAL product. I wanted that to help tighten up skin from my weight loss
 
AM07 said:
kwyck, I think the war in Iraq is much more of a financial problem and burden on our country than illegal immigration. My generation, your generation, and the generation after me will be paying off these debts for years to come.

That's why I think the war is more important than illegal immigration. I can understand the Mexicans wanting to help themselves and better their life back at home, but taking advantage of the system here is bull****. **** giving them drivers' licenses, health insurance, schooling, and everything else they want.

Steroids are bad and make you kill people. Don't do it, or you'll end up like Benoit.
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San Diego alone loses out on $100 million/year because of illegal immigration. California alone loses about $10 billion/year. Outside of loses we incur due to services illegals can't pay for, another $30-60 billion is lost, each year, by illegals who make cash here and send it out of the country. So, its safe to assume that somewhere between $50-100bn/yr is lost due to illegal immigration, and this number is increasing year after year and this has been going on for decades.

Iraq is costing us about $50/bn year and there most definitely will be an end to it.

So, illegal immigration costs at the very least as much, but most likely more than the Iraq war and the social and economic ramifications of illegal immigration are far greater than those of the Iraq war. JMO :D

I can understand anybody wanting to come into the US. Hell, its not fair we were born here and others were born elsewhere...that's just life, its the luck of the draw. And, no, we don't deserve it anymore than anyone else does. That being said, the very foundation of America is dependent upon the culture of the people who built it, so America needs people who were born and raised as Americans. If our culture is diluted away, America will follow. I'm not even going to go into detail about the fact that, largely, the people who migrate here illegally from 3rd world countries are almost always at least one of three things, if not all three: hugely under-skilled, low class, and often criminal.

Immigration is a huge problem.
 
psychospic said:
We have "advanced" to the point where we are actually fighting advancement, how ironic. While this is partly true, you could also say that by your logic we shouldn't cure diseases because those individuals were too weak to fight them off; we shouldn't help those who are born with genetic mutations or abnormalities or handicaps because that is how mother nature and evolution intended for them to be. Just because things are a certain way does not mean thay have to be a certain way.
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Exactly what that huge cerebral cortex tells all of us. In addition, it could easily be argued that by keeping our populations large and stable we have more of an opportunity to advance technologically.

Oh, and I just wanted to clear one thing up: I just said we're slowing our own advancement. I didn't say I'd be the one to leave the weak behind :D
 
Ok so I think it's time to stop the loose talk and see some back up studies / stats to make firm your claim Kwyck, you know how we do with supps that people say A) B) or C) about.

kwyckemynd00 said:
largely, the people who migrate here from 3rd world countries are almost always at least one of three things, if not all three: hugely under-skilled, low class, and often criminal.
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Maybe I'm just not as politically/socially involved as some of you people, but the only reason I keep checking this thread is to find out information about the status of UG labs, the consequences for people who have recently placed orders, and other things that would typically be found in a thread of this title on an anabolic board.....
 
It's not you. The discussions are is notorious for going way off topic and never finding their way back.

"E.T. phone home!"
 
neoborn said:
Ok so I think it's time to stop the loose talk and see some back up studies / stats to make firm your claim Kwyck, you know how we do with supps that people say A) B) or C) about.
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I missed one word in there, people who migrate "illegally". Most legal migrants are well-educated.

A/B)
Immigrants in general, but especially the unauthorized are considerably more likely than natives to have very low levels of education. For example, less than 2% of natives have less than a 9thgrade education, but 15% of legal immigrants and 32% of unauthorized migrants have this little education. (Note that education in Mexico is currently compulsory only through the 8thgrade, so finding this many with this little education is not surprising. Further, the level of compulsory school attendance was recently raised from 6thgrade.)
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C)
Citing an Urban Institute study, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: "Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That's a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population."
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Iraq War, I believe, has costs upwards of $80-90 billion a year.

I think our whole entire goddamn government needs a complete revamping. I don't trust the Republicans or Democrats. The best way to start this off is genocide of all politicians currently in office except Ron Paul, and people who share his values.

The main problem with today's government is career politicians. There should be term limits on every position in government. And their salaries should be cut by 90%. It's a position in which the people are meant to SERVE the people of this country. The current job description of a politician is a complete 180 of what the founding fathers meant it to be.
 
AM07 said:
Iraq War, I believe, has costs upwards of $80-90 billion a year.
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Somewhere between 50-70 from what I can see. Extrapolate from that. Maybe my eyes are slanted. :D

I think our whole entire goddamn government needs a complete revamping. I don't trust the Republicans or Democrats. The best way to start this off is genocide of all politicians currently in office except Ron Paul, and people who share his values.

The main problem with today's government is career politicians. There should be term limits on every position in government. And their salaries should be cut by 90%. It's a position in which the people are meant to SERVE the people of this country. The current job description of a politician is a complete 180 of what the founding fathers meant it to be.
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Agree w/ everything there. :thumbsup:
 
I am now attempting to return this thread to its topic, lets open a new thread for the illegal alien / thug life discussion.

I'm very concerned about the universal kits thing, and what it means. Looks like all the research chem places are on their way out too. UK was hit as "a distributor of drug paraphenilia". How many companies sell (or sold) ingredients or equipment that potentially could be used that way? transdermal solutions, capping kits, etc. All it takes from the UK thing is a couple of "how much 1ad powder fits into a 00 cap" for a place to be liable for selling paraphenilia
 
AM07 said:
Iraq War, I believe, has costs upwards of $80-90 billion a year.

I think our whole entire goddamn government needs a complete revamping. I don't trust the Republicans or Democrats. The best way to start this off is genocide of all politicians currently in office except Ron Paul, and people who share his values.

The main problem with today's government is career politicians. There should be term limits on every position in government. And their salaries should be cut by 90%. It's a position in which the people are meant to SERVE the people of this country. The current job description of a politician is a complete 180 of what the founding fathers meant it to be.
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Great post :thumbsup: This is the way I've felt for some time now. As they say on south park, you basically have a choice between a turd sandwich and a giant douche. Bush was elected for his second term because people were brainwashed into thinking it was the right thing to do. I'm gonna vote for John Stewart, at least he's funny.
 
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