"Dragon" Machida vs "Sugar" Evans @ AM - the UFC 98 thread

[VolcomX311]

Have dl'd UFC 98, it was an all together great event. Machida is so impressive, I wonder if White will make Spider Silva vs Dragon Machida a reality. Both said "no" already, but does friendship count when Dana wants his way?

good question

 

[luclyluciano]

Glad to see Evans and his Camp/Jackson put back in their place. Nothing but mediocrity there except for GSP.

Rampage gonna get raped next. Too one-dimensional.

 

[AE14]

Seriously, Rampage cant check a kick to save his life as shown by Forrest and Jardine. I could see Machida just pounding him for 5 rounds.

The only person in the UFC (within reason of course)I can see coming up with a disciplined game plan would be Couture, however his age and lack of speed would be his downfall.

Forrest would charge Machida and get ko'd, Shogun hasnt shown enough yet, I dont know who else there is

 

[Rodja]

Evans absolutly destroyed, its not a slight on him, hes a decent tier B fighter, but should never have taken the felt from griffin who was up until he got caught winning the first 2 rounds and probably the 3rd by a fair margin.

Again Griffin was using is long legs and range in that fighter, he was catching Rashad at will with maybe 10% of the timing Machida has.

I just didnt expect Rashad to take the same approach, he basically fought the same game as he did against chuck and griffin.

You counter cant hit whats not there though as Evans found out.

Funnily there was no crotch grabbing, dancing or antics when Machida was landing was there?

My room erupted when he got KO'd, not since chuck decimated tito have i been so happy to see the belt pass hands.

He seemed humbled and hopefully he remains that way.

Chuck/Tito I wasn't a title fight.

As it currently stands, only 2 people in the UFC have a shot at beating Lyoto: Rampage and Shogun. However, they would have to fight a smart fight, but neither has shown that lately. Rampage has all but scratched his wrestling from his game and is looking for the KO shot, while Shogun still has not completely shown that he is back to his '05 GP form. After Rampage gets his shot, we'll see if he can get his head out of his ass and start using his base again.

 

[Mulletsoldier]

Chuck/Tito I wasn't a title fight.

As it currently stands, only 2 people in the UFC have a shot at beating Lyoto: Rampage and Shogun. However, they would have to fight a smart fight, but neither has shown that lately. Rampage has all but scratched his wrestling from his game and is looking for the KO shot, while Shogun still has not completely shown that he is back to his '05 GP form. After Rampage gets his shot, we'll see if he can get his head out of his ass and start using his base again.

Yes, Rampage's Sherk-Syndrome is definitely hindering his game. These wrestlers who all of the sudden become patent-boxers are ridiculous! Integrate your newly-found skills with what allowed you to emerge in the first place.

 

[Rodja]

Yes, Rampage's Sherk-Syndrome is definitely hindering his game. These wrestlers who all of the sudden become patent-boxers are ridiculous! Integrate your newly-found skills with what allowed you to emerge in the first place.

The problem, and I am guilty of this myself, is a lack of training of how to integrate them into your game. For example, while sparring, it is rare for those who are really working on their striking to work on using their striking to set-up their strengths. If Sherk, Rampage, etc. would train while integrating each element of their game, then they would effectively use them in the fight.

For example, learning how to set up a huge double-leg from striking combinations (e.g. 1, 1, 2, 3, shoot).

 

[AE14]

Chuck/Tito I wasn't a title fight.

As it currently stands, only 2 people in the UFC have a shot at beating Lyoto: Rampage and Shogun. However, they would have to fight a smart fight, but neither has shown that lately. Rampage has all but scratched his wrestling from his game and is looking for the KO shot, while Shogun still has not completely shown that he is back to his '05 GP form. After Rampage gets his shot, we'll see if he can get his head out of his ass and start using his base again.

Shogun is the wild card here, however he has not shown in his UFC fights, the ability to basically not get hit. Now keep in mind, that Machida is a better striker than Griffin, Coleman and Lidell. That could cause some major issues for him

 

[Rodja]

Shogun is the wild card here, however he has not shown in his UFC fights, the ability to basically not get hit. Now keep in mind, that Machida is a better striker than Griffin, Coleman and Lidell. That could cause some major issues for him

Watch his fight with Rogerio Noguiera for how he deals with getting hit.

 

[AE14]

Watch his fight with Rogerio Noguiera for how he deals with getting hit.

I understand what he was in Pride, and has not been the same since. That is why I only referenced his UFC fights.

 

[Rodja]

I understand what he was in Pride, and has not been the same since. That is why I only referenced his UFC fights.

2 torn ACLs will slow down anyone.

 

[AE14]

Well the result of those injuries seem to also have affected his chin a bit.

 

[Rodja]

Well the result of those injuries seem to also have affected his chin a bit.

How so? He hasn't been dropped in his fights in the UFC.

 

[AE14]

How so? He hasn't been dropped in his fights in the UFC.

I did not say he was dropped, but he was eating a lot of shots. Couple that with Machida's accuracy and surprising power, and I think it is nighty night for Shogun.

 

[Rodja]

I did not say he was dropped, but he was eating a lot of shots. Couple that with Machida's accuracy and surprising power, and I think it is nighty night for Shogun.

He's always done that actually. Mauricio has a tendency to get wild, which does 2 things:
1. Makes him susceptible to straight punches
2. Puts on a hell of a show

His fight with Rog Nog at Critical Countdown '05 was Fight of the Year and both were dropped several times. That being said, his technical striking looked much better than it has in years against Liddell. I'm not speaking of the KO, but his footwork and bringing his hands back was much more crisp than in years past.

 

[AE14]

He's always done that actually. Mauricio has a tendency to get wild, which does 2 things:
1. Makes him susceptible to straight punches
2. Puts on a hell of a show

His fight with Rog Nog at Critical Countdown '05 was Fight of the Year and both were dropped several times. That being said, his technical striking looked much better than it has in years against Liddell. I'm not speaking of the KO, but his footwork and bringing his hands back was much more crisp than in years past.

I dont disagree, however your first point is a difficult issue when facing Machida

 

[Rodja]

I dont disagree, however your first point is a difficult issue when facing Machida

I definitely agree with you. I really want to see Rampage/Shogun II at some point in the future.

 

[AE14]

I definitely agree with you. I really want to see Rampage/Shogun II at some point in the future.

Agreed, that would be a fun fight.

However, I am curious who they throw at Machida outside of these 2

 

[VolcomX311]

Yes, Rampage's Sherk-Syndrome is definitely hindering his game. These wrestlers who all of the sudden become patent-boxers are ridiculous! Integrate your newly-found skills with what allowed you to emerge in the first place.

I know people who never knew Rampage used to be a reckless slammer of heads, because all they know is Rampage the boxer. I knew and saw him primarily as a wrestler up until his first Chuck fight in the UFC. Granted, I was thoroughly impressed by his new found, technical boxing skills when he first displayed it, but when his new found skill became his sole arsenal, I raised an eye brow and my raised eye brow hasn't come down since.

 

[Rodja]

Agreed, that would be a fun fight.

However, I am curious who they throw at Machida outside of these 2

I can see them matching either Rich or Hendo with Machida.

 

[VolcomX311]

Machida really brought me around since I first saw him fight Tito. I was not a fan of his track & field skills, but I've learned to appreciate his talent over time. Although I would be rooting for Rampage 100% in a Page/Machida fight, the only way I see Rampage beating Machida is on the X-box 360.

The only reason I wanted Evans to win, was because I felt Page had a better chance against Evans then against Machida, oh well.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

a lot of people have seen pages slams and wrestling.

i think shogun would get caught he hasnt shown me jack yet. i personally think shogun wont be as good as he was in pride its a shame he got hurt twice those are terrible injuries. page and machida is up the in the air. either could get caught. i like page more hes so funny and badass but if i had to bet money i would go machida.

 

[bla55]

I know this may be slightly ahead of time, as Machida hasn't really defended his belt yet. But lets say he defends it a couple of times. Would then be the time to start taking him in consideration as one of the best MMA fighters?

I the likes of an arguably Anderson Silva and Fedor?

 

[SrT4u2Nv]

ya he'll have to defend it once or twice which i;m sad to say he may. I would love for Page to have the belt again but lets be honest Machida is years ahead of anyone in his weight class. Andy would have to step up and Fedor step down for any real competion. But id like to see a Damien Maia or Vinny Megelasha fight Machida.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

Vinny Megelasha? no lol vinny would get K.O.eddddddd

 

[Tomahawk88]

But id like to see a Damien Maia or Vinny Megelasha fight Machida.

U r joking right? Vinny would just try and pull guard would looks like it would be hard to do against Machida because of his style and Vinny's 1 dimensional fighting attack.

 

[0-hero]

Wow, Maia and Vinny would get crushed.

Listen Rashad was custom built to beat Machida, a powerful explosive striker with one punch KO power, with probably the fastest hands and best footwork in the division, thats without his wrestling base to avoid the sweeps and take downs (which he did).

We saw what happened, Machida timing was light years ahead, even the counter flurry Rashad landed didnt land clean, Machidas hip position allows him to lean back, Rashads 5-7 counters all his neck/cheek.

BUT there in lies probably the only weakness we have seen from him thus far, he countered and left his jaw totally open, so who are the best counter punchers in the division? Lets not go there lol.

The only person i could see giving him trouble is hendo at 205 and arona if he was in top shape.

And thats purely speculation because Machida hasent been on his back yet in the cage.

I also wouldnt put it past couture to drop to 205 again and take it.

 

[JZ7757]

I would say somewhat custom built to beat machida, however, it was evident that he either forgot about the wrestling aspect or didnt have enough time to feel out/establish the stand up game.

Rashads footwork has a lot to be desired, as admitted by his boxing coach up to the fight as "a work in progress". All that dancing, shifting weight from front/back is not good, nevermind his hand movments. This was one main reason Machida was able to catch him wide open at some points in the fight.

Rampage has a better chance to solve the Machida puzzle than Evans ever did; much better stand up, footwork, power, chin, etc. However, page will need to come with a great game plan and utilize his wrestling and make it a dirty clinch/inside fight, not a stand up slug match that machida can dance/score around him. Machida has never faced someone of page's power/boxing technique.

 

[AE14]

I think Page could be interesting at best, but I could see 3-4 rounds of Machida slowly picking him apart and not suffering any real damage. Page needs to go back to the power game more so than his boxing, as that will not be nearly as successful against Machida.

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

get this fool on the ground!!!! win by control

 

[SpargelJanusz]

The whole event was so great, I now dl it for the 2nd time, but now in HD quality.
Damn, I'd love to see Machida vs Page within the next 3 months.

The brawler vs the pure martial artist. A match made in heaven. Is it a sure thing that Rampage will be the Dragon's next challenger?

 

[SpargelJanusz]

Double post.

 

[AE14]

that fight probably wont happen till december or november. They are going to coach season 10 and fight at the end

 

[0-hero]

Page couldnt/wouldnt check griffins or Jardines traditional thai kicks.

How the hell is he going to evade Machida's?

His Base is good, but as we saw against Rashad, it wont both Loyoto much if he cant sweep him, but its nice to keep them aware of it.

Very suprised Rashad didnt try to muscle him down though, especially when clinched, i expected him to pummel for underhooks etc.

205 is top heavy with wrestlers and it looks like Loyoto has their number.

All of a sudden Titos close decision loss doesnt look so bad.

 

[SpargelJanusz]

The thing is, Ramapage has a steel chin. I actually see him winning vs Machida.

 

[0-hero]

Yeah true, though you wonder like Nog how much hes got left in that chin after the Wandy double.

Honestly i could see couture coming down for this, 4 years ago Loyoto would have been a good match up for him.

Again though, i wonder how much hes got left after all the TKO's.

 

[Jessep76]

Have dl'd UFC 98, it was an all together great event. Machida is so impressive, I wonder if White will make Spider Silva vs Dragon Machida a reality. Both said "no" already, but does friendship count when Dana wants his way?

WTF they're friends now too?? Where did you read this?

 

[Rodja]

WTF they're friends now too?? Where did you read this?

They've been friends for years. Andy has said on a few occasions that 205 is Lyoto's domain.

 

[VolcomX311]

And if I'm not mistaken, Brazilian fighters are seriously loyal to their friendships with other fighters.

 

[VolcomX311]

And if I'm not mistaken, Brazilian fighters are seriously loyal to their friendships with other fighters. Honor & respect before money I believe.

 

[Rodja]

And if I'm not mistaken, Brazilian fighters are seriously loyal to their friendships with other fighters.

Very loyal. Anyone that has trained with BTT/Black House generally refuse to fight each other. Nova Uniao and the remnants of Chute Boxe are fair game, however.

FYI, list of BTT/BH fighters:
Vitor Belfort
Rodrigo Nogueira
Rogerio Nogueira
Andy
Lyoto
Rafael Feijao
dos Santos
Nino Schembri
Andre Galvao

Formerly:
Jacare
Filho

 

[Jessep76]

According to Sergio Non of USA Today, Jackson and Evans will fight in the traditional season-ending coach-vs.-coach fight sometime in December. Although Jackson was promised the first shot at Lyoto Machida's belt, which he won from Evans this past weekend at UFC 98, Machida will make his first title defense against an opponent to be named shortly. According to White, Jackson said his desire to coach against Evans was stronger than his desire to fight immediately for the title.

 

[Tomahawk88]

He probably wants more time to try and figure out Machida since he is such a unique fighter. Plus I think he genuinely hates Evans plus I am sure he gets a nice lil bonus for doing it and we all know he likes the attention.

 

[VolcomX311]

He probably wants more time to try and figure out Machida since he is such a unique fighter. Plus I think he genuinely hates Evans plus I am sure he gets a nice lil bonus for doing it and we all know he likes the attention.

"it's gonna be some black on black crime bebe"

 

[AE14]

what I have heard is that Shogun will get the title shot, as all other contenders are tied up (Jardine and Forrest)

 

[Jessep76]

"I'm uh knock you...clean...out"

 

[sonofsteven]

And if I'm not mistaken, Brazilian fighters are seriously loyal to their friendships with other fighters.

Generally that statement is correct . I suppose Wandy is the exception , seeing as how he and A. Silva are on an apparent collision course . If they can defeat Griffin and Franklin that is . Gotta love that about the Axe Murderer , one wrong word such as "arrogant" or whatever it was A. Silva said and Wand is down for war ! Training partners be damned ! Win or lose that cat is out for the kill . Oh yeah , Page and Shogun would both get handled by The Bulletproof Monk . :dead1:

 

[bigwhiteguy29]

wandy wont get passed A. Silva. shogun should get destroyed by machida. page doesnt want a shot at the title over doing the HW TUF against rashad?

who is jardines next oponent?

 

[sonofsteven]

wandy wont get passed A. Silva. shogun should get destroyed by machida. page doesnt want a shot at the title over doing the HW TUF against rashad?

who is jardines next oponent?

I've not read anything concrete lately but I wouldnt be surprised to see the Dean in a bout with Thiago Silva as they are both coming off losses to top tier opponents(Rampage/Machida) in which case I'd prob take T. Silva . However Luis Cane did look pretty decent against Steve Cantwell at UFC97 and he is an up and comer who would def give Jardine a scrap . Maybe if Hamill can beat Vera at 101 , he gets a shot . Kinda a lot of decent options I think . Kieth is still a good test for anyone at 205.

 

[0-hero]

If page is off the agenda, i dont see anyone else coming in that would interest me.

Griffin has Silva, if Silva wins he wont fight Machida and if Griffin wins he wont have much for the dragon.

Shogun is nowhere near ready, a KO over a guy whos been KO'd in 2 out of 3 of his last fights who is chasing your round the ring with his hands round his waist earns him a title shot? Thats bullshit if he gets one.

Id rather see Jardine, Ortiz or even Vera get a shot before him.

 

[bla55]

I do like the Vera idea. It would be a nice fight.