3 AD Clone!

[neoborn]

Why not get the bulk powder from Custom Nutrition?

 

[slow-mun]

Why not get the bulk powder from Custom Nutrition?

I thought they were sold out, never to get any more.

 

[slow-mun]

That said, I stand by my statement that these guys were attacked unjustly. They were doing what I hope every supplement consumer does, question the products that they are purchasing. Good supplement companies can provide solid scientific backing to their products...not bash those who question them. I understand that peer reviewed journal articles regarding the use of this type of product with designer steroids will be non-existant, but there should at least be a legitimate study of a similar compound to compare. What I saw were a few guys asking for this type of verification...with only hostility in return.

You may label me as a PA "cronie" if you wish, but I think that I deserve much more credit. I have the utmost respect for the leaders in this industry (which includes PA, Sledge, Par Deus, WL, and Dr. D) but I think that every product that any of them put out should be questioned by the consumer. Following blindly will help no one.

I never once accused anyone of being a PA cronie or even threw his(PA) name out there. I feel Poopypants was unjustifiably attacked for try to post information on the spearate ingredients of Trisorbagen. The simple truth is that there is a difference in questioning the ingredients in a product and just being maliscious A-hole(often posing under the guise of pseudo-screename and an inquisitive mind). I believe the line was crossed over before I made ANY POST. If you can't see that and feel I was out of line, then I guess you're not familiar with the way most of the other forums work.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

its not hard to get legit 11-oxo/3-ad material into the country, AX labeled there's as adrenodione which is what flagged the customs officials. Any random joe smhoe can order this material from an overseas vendor and get it into the country, especially if they use the actual name (11-ketotestosterone or whatever it is). They would get it into the country the same way that epistane, pheraplex and all these other designer hormones are coming in. 11-ketot is probably easy to synthesize, i would put my money on it that this stuff is legit.

this only works for small shipments

no large company could ever do this

 

[Patrick Arnold]

yea i was kind of thinking the same thing when i read that. hoping that this new absorption product would be in the $15-20 range but my gut tells me it wont be. no way in hell im paying $40-50 to increase the absorption of a methylated oral steroid, which would be the only reason i would purchase it (for orals). i dont know the whole science behind it, may help justify cost, but im just praying its a decent/cheap and effective add-on to a cycle. something you can just drop in your cart and not have to think twice because of the price.

please run a log when you receive your product easyEJL :thumbsup:

the absorption products out there are made to target CYP450 enzymes.

these enzymes control hydoxylation reactions. this involves the attachment of a new hydroxyl group to a compound to increase water solubility as well as provide a site for a glucuronate or sulfate group to bond (which further increases water solubility). the intent is to kill biological activity and to make it so you can piss it out quickly

the hydroxylation pathway for deactivation/elimination of androgens however is very minor. Oxidation/reduction reactions are the main routes for these. So a CYP450 inhibitor will do very little to increase bioavailability of androgens

don't waste your money. take your steroids with food containing a decent amount of fat and you will be fine.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

$50??? I saw it for $25 and he retail price was listed as $40.

this trisorbagen was gonna be combined with adrenosterone and then sold at a price below 11--oxo (according to axe)

but now it sells for 40 bucks as a stand alone?


something is f'ed up here

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Xmass
trenadrol
1,4AD
1,4ADD
Finigen x
Furaz
prostan (winztrol)
Adrenosterone
M-TST
Mega TRN

do i need to keep on going????

and the science behind trisorbagen is completely sound and benifits range far beyond just increased PH absorbtion including increased nutrient uptake and immune system. look at the page and read write up.... youll be a lil suprised im sure.

Anabolic Xtreme

yeah i am surprised

but not for the reasons you are

 

[Patrick Arnold]

What's the chemical name of Trisorbagen?

bankruptalone

 

[Patrick Arnold]

He may still innovate but remember he has some new best friends that watch his every move so he has to do things like extremely underdose 11-oxo as to not draw any heat to himself. What AX did was innovate by adding double the dose and the tri complex. And because his product was out first doesnt mean anything to me. I will admit the guy is smart, but what gets me is that everyone believes him when he says hes here for the consumer......What a load of crap!

sometimes on the boards i acutally enjoy getting insults more than praises

i am weird

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Geez, next thing you are going to tell me there is no Santa Claus or Easter Bunny....

The rationale of some people is dumbfounding...You can get them to believe anything...

PA does know his crap, but to act like he is consumer advocate is ludicrous. The guy has an agenda to sell product and books.

i sell books?

 

[Big BAMA]

Mr. Arnold if you have a book let me know so i can buy it.

 

[xjsynx]

i sell books?

You were planning to. You don't plan on selling a book any more?

I noticed your site http://askpatarnold.com/ isn't up any longer, where it talked about your up and coming book...

 

[Patrick Arnold]

:clap2:

those goddam clapping hands again!

god i hate those

 

[Patrick Arnold]

AX, do you have any clinical data that trisorbagen does anything with androgens, besides forum posts that say "Works great!"?

they don't necessarily have to provide evidence for the product, just the ingredients themselves

 

[Patrick Arnold]

if you dont see how that can apply to a steroid in any regards or line up with the other health benifits listed in AX's own writeup then i guess i cant help ya. i dont have any studies including nor can i find any with steroids directly being used.

CYP450 enzymes are what the two main ingredients of this product effect

these enzymes are heavily involved in the metabolism of many drugs, however androgens are not among them. they are involved only minimally in androgen metabolism

 

[poopypants]

arent you mostly referring to DHB??? what about bioprene? will that effect androgen absorption to your knowledge?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Well it does make a big difference because the compounds they used do not have the same pharmacokinetic parameters as the steroids we are trying to make more effective. .

i think the term pharmacodynamic would be more appropriate here

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Then why did he put it in his last product too? Just to copy everyone else even though it doesn't work?? Read between the lines fella.

Read THESE Lines D,

piperine (bioperine) is in 6-oxo extreme to increase the bioavailability of resveratrol. Glucuronidation of resveratrol is a main pathway of deactivation. Piperine inhibits glucuronidation of polyphenols (resveratrol is a polyphenol)

piperine is NOT in any of my steroid products however and never has been. Why? Because the evidence suggests that it would probably not be very useful

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Haha, yeah, you can see how honest and objective PA's info was on Epi now, right? It's been 86'ed with all the clones! Epi is in the upper half of the top 10 best sellers everywhere now, while the other brands PA defended are in the "where are they now" category, lol.

This will NOT turn into another Epi drama, because I will not even waste my time if that starts again. The truth always surfaces for itself and results speak louder than bs. That's how it is and it always will be.

for everyone's information

i tested four methyl-epi products

havoc, hemaguno, and epidrol all had the same mass spectral data

epistane had different data


IBE swears that they have the right stuff. I have and continue to swear that they are wrong and I believe have a very strong case

people can believe what they want.

 

[poopypants]

??????
PA they were ALL different......

 

[Patrick Arnold]

i would just like to say that i have used two halo-50 clones in the past. one of them contained a p-450 protection matrix consisting of bioperine, and few other things (one might have been dhb). the clone was called methandrol-50 by webber pharmaceuticals. not only did blood work confirm it, but the mirror did as well.

i admit that i like AX, but i am not defending their products because i have a liking towards their brand or reps. i am gauranteeing that this product works because they haven't dropped a dud yet.

unlike non-methylated steroids CYP450 enzymes do come into play for alot of methylated steroids, as these are altered to resist oxidoreductases

 

[DR.D]

Read THESE Lines D,

piperine (bioperine) is in 6-oxo extreme to increase the bioavailability of resveratrol. Glucuronidation of resveratrol is a main pathway of deactivation. Piperine inhibits glucuronidation of polyphenols (resveratrol is a polyphenol)

piperine is NOT in any of my steroid products however and never has been. Why? Because the evidence suggests that it would probably not be very useful

Sounds very counter productive in your product then. It's marketed as an anti-estro right? Yet preservation of phenolics will keep estradiol alive and kicking much longer! I think I would omit it.

And the info you gave about CYP is incorrect. You must not realize that 6-hydroxylation is a primary and significant pathway to androgen deactivation? Oh, of course you do, or 6-Oxo wouldn't even work.

Besides pat, I was not speaking to you or of your product, I was speaking to somebody else giving false info about one of my products as well as yours.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

You were planning to. You don't plan on selling a book any more?

I noticed your site http://askpatarnold.com/ isn't up any longer, where it talked about your up and coming book...

my brother put that site up there and threw a book teaser out. i took the site down

i might write a book someday, but not today

 

[Patrick Arnold]

arent you mostly referring to DHB??? what about bioprene? will that effect androgen absorption to your knowledge?

bioperene affects p450 and other things as well

i don't know how much it would effect androgens

 

[Patrick Arnold]

??????
PA they were ALL different......

these were not the same results that we got

 

[poopypants]

these were not the same results that we got

well im sorry but ill belive these 3rd party results first and foremost.... these were done by MM. you remember all that right?

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Sounds very counter productive in your product then. It's marketed as an anti-estro right? Yet preservation of phenolics will keep estradiol alive and kicking much longer! I think I would omit it.

And the info you gave about CYP is incorrect. You must not realize that 6-hydroxylation is a primary and significant pathway to androgen deactivation? Oh, of course you do, or 6-Oxo wouldn't even work.

your first point has some validity, however i believe that the impact on resveratrol bioavailability outweighs any effect on estrogen breakdown.

6-hydroxylation is a minor pathway in testosterone metabolism. the major urinary breakdown products of testosterone are androsterone, epiandrosterone, etiocholanolone, androstenedione, and 5alpha and 5beta androstandiols. None of these are products that underwent hydroxylation reactions

methylated steorids, as i said before, are different however.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

well im sorry but ill belive these 3rd party results first and foremost.... these were done by MM. you remember all that right?

yeah but i dunno if they were the same lot or whatever

the havoc and hemaguno are still very similar here nonetheless

 

[matthew76]

PA - is the del. system worth the money? (In your opinion)

 

[Zero Tolerance]

Somebody already politely asked to keep this discussion on the subject - the 3-AD clone. I can understand why some people would rather this discussion be worthless, but some of us are very interested.

Thanks, Matthew76 - for purchasing the product and considering to get it tested. Please keep us posted in regards...

Alright damnit! I purchased a bottle today (not to take - well not at this moment) I want to get this stuff tested; which is cool because I think someone else is too - then maybe compare the two studies... I def. don't want to be involved in another EPI scandal type of thing, though

Dr.D - as always, thanks for dropping some knowledge down for us!

 

[jasonschaffin]

I love the discussion on the trisorbagen, but can we keep the epi test out of this? all that ever does is get threads closed down.

 

[neoborn]

I honestly don't know why you guys engage PA, it's the same thing over and over. Drama to the maximum. While I, like everyone else appreciate his knowledge and insight it always comes with a price. The troll clan follow closely behind as does a whirlwind of contraversy and mud slinging.

Let us never forget the agenda guys... there is a chip on someones shoulder and he's gonna make everyone pay, anyway he can...

Much Love,

Neoborn

 

[neoborn]

I thought they were sold out, never to get any more.

B-Androstenetriol this is it right???

 

[rpen22]

B-Androstenetriol this is it right???

No, that's bAET.

 

[Patrick Arnold]

PA - is the del. system worth the money? (In your opinion)

negatory

 

[Rx Lift]

It's not "bro-science" at all, though there are no specific clinicals for Trisorb, there is a ton of relevant, related clinical data all over the net to justify the substrates, enzymes and mechanism involved with this product. Results are predictable. Maybe you just fail to understand the science? Reread the write-up, learn about the P450 and metabolism, then ask your questions if you still have any questions. I doubt you will because it's not that hard to grasp.

You guys are claiming a synergistic effect by combining those three items into one product to increase steroid bioavailability. What clinically relevant effect is Bioperine or Emblica Officinalis going to have on steroid metabolism? We are questioning it as bro-science, because so far no AX rep has posted any information to back up these claims. Instead we are told to look it up ourselves.

 

[neoborn]

No, that's bAET.

Oh k then......

 

[macedaddy]

I honestly don't know why you guys engage PA, it's the same thing over and over. Drama to the maximum. While I, like everyone else appreciate his knowledge and insight it always comes with a price. The troll clan follow closely behind as does a whirlwind of contraversy and mud slinging.

Let us never forget the agenda guys... there is a chip on someones shoulder and he's gonna make everyone pay, anyway he can...

Much Love,

Neoborn

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

 

[Rx Lift]

:clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2: :clap2:

As usual, no positive contribution to the discussion...

 

[neoborn]

As usual, no positive contribution to the discussion...

You are currently doing the same thing you are complaining about, why be such a hypocrit? Add some value yourself? :food: :duel:

 

[EasyEJL]

so back to the ACTUAL topic of this thread (which is not "steroid and supplement company deathmatch") my bottle of XPN AndroXtreme-D arrived, I opened it, popped one. Unless one of the other people on this board with experience with adrenosterone says otherwise, I plan to dose 300mg a day as 2 separate doses, solely for cortisol control. I considered alternatine between 300 + 150 to get closer to the average of 225 as in 11-oxo, but i'm not certain thats really wise. I could try to space em every 16 hours I guess, 6am, 10pm, 2pm, repeat if anyone thinks that makes sense. I'll only be taking till the PAL transformation contest starts, which will be no sooner than the 27th, possibly later. So that gives me at least 10 days, maybe more. At 300mg/day the bottle of 60 is 30 days.

Does anyone think the every 16 hours is a good dose plan? I happened to take it right at 2pm I just noticed looking at the clock

 

[matthew76]

were any of yours broken open?

i've got to send mine back (DAMN)

ripped with the over-night BS

 

[macedaddy]

so back to the ACTUAL topic of this thread (which is not "steroid and supplement company deathmatch") my bottle of XPN AndroXtreme-D arrived, I opened it, popped one. Unless one of the other people on this board with experience with adrenosterone says otherwise, I plan to dose 300mg a day as 2 separate doses, solely for cortisol control. I considered alternatine between 300 + 150 to get closer to the average of 225 as in 11-oxo, but i'm not certain thats really wise. I could try to space em every 16 hours I guess, 6am, 10pm, 2pm, repeat if anyone thinks that makes sense. I'll only be taking till the PAL transformation contest starts, which will be no sooner than the 27th, possibly later. So that gives me at least 10 days, maybe more. At 300mg/day the bottle of 60 is 30 days.

Does anyone think the every 16 hours is a good dose plan? I happened to take it right at 2pm I just noticed looking at the clock

if it is truly adreno, then you can dose it at the 450mg dose and still benefit formt he weight-loss effects, while also increasing anabolism. I would dose it as recommended! :thumbsup:

 

[EasyEJL]

but would I see noticeable effect in 10~14 days? and then PCT as well? I think from what i've gathered the "leaning" effect kicks in pretty fast, anabolism later.

Also for that matter, should they be dosed all at one time or split? their label says "2-3 capsules, 1x daily with food"

 

[xjsynx]

I honestly don't know why you guys engage PA, it's the same thing over and over. Drama to the maximum. While I, like everyone else appreciate his knowledge and insight it always comes with a price. The troll clan follow closely behind as does a whirlwind of contraversy and mud slinging.

Let us never forget the agenda guys... there is a chip on someones shoulder and he's gonna make everyone pay, anyway he can...

Much Love,

Neoborn

Wow, and I thought all british-canucks were dolts...

Well put...

 

[Patrick Arnold]

You are currently doing the same thing you are complaining about, why be such a hypocrit? Add some value yourself? :food: :duel:

stop complaining about the complainer

 

[stxnas]

Just an FYI, but you guys saying that Trisorbagen is $40 or $50 must have been on an overpriced site...that or they messed up the price. I have seen this already advertised for ~$25 for a 90 count bottle.

Proceed.

 

[EasyEJL]

were any of yours broken open?

i've got to send mine back (DAMN)

ripped with the over-night BS

not that I noticed. Damn addictive personality, I ripped the box open, popped the cap, peeled the foil, removed cotton, grabbed one cap, closed it + swallowed

nah no loose powder in the bottle

 

[Patrick Arnold]

Wow, and I thought all british-canucks were dolts...

Well put...

whenever i start talking factual science all these people call it drama

i never could get that


wait a minute, I get it now!!

you are supposed to never question a supplement companies marketing hype. you are suppsoed to get accept it and get excited. Join the hysteria

when you question it you are being a drama queen. you are a rabble rouser, starting trouble. much analagous to anyone that questions government policies - these people are as we all know "unpatriotic" perhaps even "treasonous"

 

[neoborn]

stop complaining about the complainer

Hehehe. Thanks Arnie, you know I love joo long time Truth be told though eh!izza: