Wife wants a divorce

[Beau]

I feel silly considering counseling this early in the game...

My friend, I hope that you immediately dismiss any feeling of silliness about taking constructive steps to improve (save?) your relationship. It takes a real man to be able to seek the input of others. That is a sign of strength; not weakness.

But - make sure you find a GOOD counselor. A bad one can reek enormous damage.

 

[AE14]

agreed, I would recommend meeting several counselors before you settle on one. I was fortunate to have a good one, while my wife's only tells her how pretty, smart and funny she is. I understand building esteem, but there comes a point to where you gotta deal with the issues

 

[Usf97j4x4]

My friend, I hope that you immediately dismiss any feeling of silliness about taking constructive steps to improve (save?) your relationship. It takes a real man to be able to seek the input of others. That is a sign of strength; not weakness.

But - make sure you find a GOOD counselor. A bad one can reek enormous damage.

Very true. I do want to save it (if it can be saved)... you know I love her but i'm not "in" love with her. Its hard to feel like that when you feel like you're constantly on the defense. I plan on contacting a few... I wish there were better resources out there for finding good ones!

 

[Beau]

Very true. I do want to save it (if it can be saved)... you know I love her but i'm not "in" love with her. Its hard to feel like that when you feel like you're constantly on the defense. I plan on contacting a few... I wish there were better resources out there for finding good ones!

I understand the conflict; I do.

IF you are a believer, I would add this additional suggestion: Christian counseling can be great, but it shouldn't (IMO) be conducted by laypersons who have not also completed appropriate psychology-related degrees and have appropriate psychology-related experience. I tried the Christian Counseling as a Bible Study - and I needed more than Bible Study (in my case, a lot more). The counselors not having psychology-related backgrounds rendered this mostly a waste of time.

 

[Zero V]

I understand the conflict; I do.

IF you are a believer, I would add this additional suggestion: Christian counseling can be great, but it shouldn't (IMO) be conducted by laypersons who have not also completed appropriate psychology-related degrees and have appropriate psychology-related experience. I tried the Christian Counseling as a Bible Study - and I needed more than Bible Study (in my case, a lot more). The counselors not having psychology-related backgrounds rendered this mostly a waste of time.

BUT a pastor who does have a a psychology background is one powerful force against any distress. They have both knowledge of the Word(Bible) and Gods will along with it as well as the ability to assess the situation from a psychological standpoint. Christian counseling if you find the right person has a super effect. The pastor, the psychologist, the holy spirit, and God all in one sitting working to mend your wounds. Still isnt easy, but church is the only place I have ever had an insanely horrific feeling of pain lifted within seconds by a presence that felt like warm water all around me....

I am going to be a teacher/youth pastor. Teachers take a bootload of psychology classes. I plan on being able to help people, sorry its not 4 years down the road

 

[Beau]

BUT a pastor who does have a a psychology background is one powerful force against any distress. They have both knowledge of the Word(Bible) and Gods will along with it as well as the ability to assess the situation from a psychological standpoint. Christian counseling if you find the right person has a super effect. The pastor, the psychologist, the holy spirit, and God all in one sitting working to mend your wounds. Still isnt easy, but church is the only place I have ever had an insanely horrific feeling of pain lifted within seconds by a presence that felt like warm water all around me....

I am going to be a teacher/youth pastor. Teachers take a bootload of psychology classes. I plan on being able to help people, sorry its not 4 years down the road

OK - and now there is something else on which we can agree.

The two counselors I've eventually wound up with are both Clinical Psychologists; one who went to seminary, and the other is a Pastor and oversees all counsling for a nationally recognized Christian organization. For me, it is important that they are both male; although if I had found the right female counslor - that would have worked out fine, too.

For me, it was the counslor's ability to evulate my pshychological hurts and feelings from a pshychologically-based perspective, and have that perspective temptered by Christian belief - that made it work.

 

[AE14]

its interesting, I tried a male counselor when I was younger, but I have an exceptionally strong personality and he (according to other counselors) was threatened by me. It was a weird situation.

That is why you need to check many. I needed someone who would shoot straight, and if they thought I was wrong, they wouldnt be afraid to say it

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I havent been able to find a counselor that has a pyschology background... go figure.

 

[Beau]

I havent been able to find a counselor that has a pyschology background... go figure.

Your church might be a good source of potential counselors; maybe they can refer you to a psychologist they have experience with?

 

[AE14]

bumping this to see if there are any updates and how the situation is going

 

[nightshift]

We have been working toward an amicable separation. While we continue to share the same house, the realization that the marriage is over is readily apparent. Things have been civil for the most part, and i feel now that this is the best and wisest course to follow. She has started looking for a new place to live and I suspect she will be moving by mid September, October at the latest. As for me, I have had the good fortune of having a trusted co-worker and my sister as people I could talk to. Along with all of you here, they have been very supportive and willing to listen. I can not thank you and them enough.

As a side note, I am 4 weeks into a 20 rep dead lift routine. It is absolutely brutal. This morning I managed 20@ 300lbs with good form. I needed something like this to regain my focus. So far so good.

 

[Jayhawkk]

Make sure you take time for yourself before jumping into another comfortable relationship man. As much as failing relationships can make us stronger, they also make it harder for the next one to succeed. Take time to work on 'you' whatever that may be then move forward.

 

[nightshift]

No worries about that. I haven't been looking and don't plan on it any time soon. Football season is right around the corner and I am looking forward to some serious downtime. Thanks for the advise.

 

[AE14]

use the time well. As jay said it is easy to just slide into something else, and that could make things 100 times worse. Hope things remain civil for all of your sakes.

 

[nightshift]

In the course of looking around the house(yes I was snooping), I discovered some things that not only turned my stomach but really support my ideas on my wife's extra-curricular activities. Do I confront her about these things or just take it for what it's worth? I realize there is going to be an end here and I have been trying to maintain my dignity during this whole big mess. This new stuff just infuriates me and at times I really feel helpless. I know the path I must follow. That much is clear. The problem is dealing with all the stuff trying to block the path.

 

[Zero V]

confronting at this point may just make her even worse, or even spiteful or angry. You already knew inside.....now you just have the proof.

Take it for what its worth bro. Let it be, it wont do you any good. I would say you could bring up up later, but after the divorce then you can find answers. But for right now, find peace in yourself, and not in answers.

Keep us updated. God bless, things will work out.

 

[oldguns]

I watched my son try to keep his marriage together , his kids are his life. She walked in one day, said she wanted a divorce and she would move out in 3 days and she was gone... Then before the ink was dry on the paper work she got married. He pulled up the logs on her cell phone and her affair was going on for years. Now he's glad she's gone, has the kids and feels that he should have done it earlier, he wanted his family together. At least his kids are with him and spends a lot of time with them... Remember divorce will affect you just as death in the family, it is an end to a part of you and your life. I would advise to get help talk to someone and this will also affect your kids, so spend time with them they need your love. Feeling your hurt you may not see their's.

 

[Zero V]

A man is someone who is not afraid to cry, and a leader is someone who will choose not to, but not for him self, but for the sake of others.

May you find true peace in your mind

 

[EasyEJL]

In the course of looking around the house(yes I was snooping), I discovered some things that not only turned my stomach but really support my ideas on my wife's extra-curricular activities. Do I confront her about these things or just take it for what it's worth? I realize there is going to be an end here and I have been trying to maintain my dignity during this whole big mess. This new stuff just infuriates me and at times I really feel helpless. I know the path I must follow. That much is clear. The problem is dealing with all the stuff trying to block the path.

Is there anything to gain by confronting her at this point? No, just continue on the path of getting her out of the house as soon as you can.

 

[AE14]

Is there anything to gain by confronting her at this point? No, just continue on the path of getting her out of the house as soon as you can.

agreed, you or your kids have nothing to gain by confronting her. SO just keep pushing forward and get her out

 

[nightshift]

We are in the process of separating all of the finances. What I need to know is does she have any claim to the money in my retirement accounts? I am considering liquidating the accounts, eating the early withdrawl penalty and safe depositing the cash. Granted, it's not a ton of money, but I don't want to lose half of it to her either.
All in all, things are still relatively civil. We talk quite a bit when the kids are in school. Once they get home, she retreats to her bedroom and locks the door. Hardly see her the rest of the day. Pretty weird. Will try to keep you posted. Thanks

 

[badbart]

We are in the process of separating all of the finances. What I need to know is does she have any claim to the money in my retirement accounts? I am considering liquidating the accounts, eating the early withdrawl penalty and safe depositing the cash. Granted, it's not a ton of money, but I don't want to lose half of it to her either.

I don't think so keep them as is.

 

[EasyEJL]

she has a right to half of the retirement funds, and you can't assign someone else as beneficiary without getting her signature. However if she doesn't know about them and doesn't request half during the settlement you are ok. If she knows about them then cashing them out and trying to hide the funds wont work very well either.

 

[AE14]

EJL is correct. Anything accumulated during your time together, is fair game, sadly

 

[badbart]

I'm wrong you guys are right, its lawsuits your company retirement plans are shielded from.

 

[nightshift]

I have been told by members here and others I have talked to that my emotions during this mess will run the gamut. For the first time in my adult life I felt absolutely lonely. It has been a long time without a warm embrace or even a kiss on the cheek. Thank God for the hugs from my kids. The weird thing is that the lonely feeling happened when I was in the grocery store. I almost had to leave the store. The whole thing is really confusing I guess. I know I'm just rambling here, but I needed to get it off my chest.

 

[Zero V]

I have been told by members here and others I have talked to that my emotions during this mess will run the gamut. For the first time in my adult life I felt absolutely lonely. It has been a long time without a warm embrace or even a kiss on the cheek. Thank God for the hugs from my kids. The weird thing is that the lonely feeling happened when I was in the grocery store. I almost had to leave the store. The whole thing is really confusing I guess. I know I'm just rambling here, but I needed to get it off my chest.

We here for ya bro. That is depression setting in. It will be feelings of loneliness, then like you dont belong, then that everything is your fault, then you begin to enter into a continues circle of causing yourself more and more emotional harm.

Break the chain man, It sounds weird but you shouldn't be lonely. Think of the old roman warriors who had to go to war for 5 years before they could return, during that times friends left, children grew up, etc. This is a test that shows you are a real man. You have made the right choices, you have done the best for your kids, you should not feel lonely, but proud. Think of this as a time of training away from the world. Find something you want to improve on during this time and DO IT. Learn a new language, seriously, do model cars, find a hobby other than lifting. You need something that you create in a shorter period of time that you can see progression of that way you can feel accomplishments build up.

You will be ok man, and as for the retirement funds.....find a good lawyer, its getting more common for women to not be able to rip guys off completely, judges are realizing that its not right....just not fast enough. Have evidence ready against her, and if you could I would try to record a conversations between you to show her behavior.....If it is in YOUR house video and audio is completely legal to record I believe, double check with local laws. But its completely legal to my knowledge to record people if they dont know it in your own house unless its like a potty cam. Also its legal to record conversation in public places. Kinda like the rule that once its in the trash its public property Check your trash for evidence she might toss lol.

If it gets uncivil open full force on her in court. Paint how she is, how she destroyed your family, the emotional harm she is causing your family. I hope and pray you get the best out of this and you lose nothing more than you already have.

My personal rules were if for some reason I felt uneasy about my marriage I was selling my house, car, and all my assets to my brother for cheap and working a deal out with my job to be "fired" so as not to have any merit able income. But if things stabilize you can transfer it all back, but if after a year and a half if something goes wrong, and you sold all your assets a year and a half ago :thumbsup: All i would say is I wasn't sure of my finances back then so I gave ownership to others who could handle it and basically rented from them Its a lil more complicated involving legal papers and the likes that make it actually work, I mean heck I would rather butcher my house, car, everything and give it to a children s hospital or charities than let a divorcing wife get it. Its kinda like pulling the pin on a grenade and holding it behind your back when your going to be defeated by the enemy....

(that last bit is just from my complete disgust in the way women screw men over, and how the courts give them unfair advantages, this is not to be taken as advice)

 

[nightshift]

Thanks Zero. You are right. I need to invest some time in myself and something I enjoy doing. Right now it's work, home, and the gym. That's it. Perhaps this would be a good time to finish my motorcycle project in the garage and get my hands dirty again.

As for the loneliness, I have always been a fairly solitary person. However, during 18 years of marriage, I enjoyed and treasured the companionship and now I miss it. While writing this, I recalled a passage from Proverbs that said something like it is better to live in the desert than to share your house with a quarrelsome wife. Too true.

 

[Mrs. Gimpy!]

My thoughts are with you and your family. I'm glad to see that you and your children get along and are able to be there for each other. that in itself is more than what most people have in their lives.

(that last bit is just from my complete disgust in the way women screw men over, and how the courts give them unfair advantages, this is not to be taken as advice)

women like that make the rest of us look hideous. I can't stand that.

 

[Zero V]

My thoughts are with you and your family. I'm glad to see that you and your children get along and are able to be there for each other. that in itself is more than what most people have in their lives.


women like that make the rest of us look hideous. I can't stand that.

lol, nice quote from proverbs mate, though i am not too knowledgeable in old testament yet. Work on that motorcycle project yeah yeah, get them hands dirty.

I know alot of girls are great girls, wonderful, and would do anything for their man and their family. And because of the all the women who just want to step all over men, or be unfaithful, etc it gives girls as a whole a bad name to some guys. It sucks. But its weird too....

The girls who are amazing are always dating/married to jerkwads/cheaters, the guys who are wonderful are dating/married to backstabbing evil women......usually that is. Why cant all the jerks and evil women stay on one side and all the nice guys/girls stay on the other lol. There are alot of great marriages/relationships, they just get overshadowed by the sheer level of negativity that comes from people who dont care about hurting others.....

 

[AE14]

I agree, find something you enjoy doing, and do it. Do the best you can with your time alone, I sympathize, trust me. For me, besides my daughter the gym is my savior. I can plug my headphones in and I am off in a different world where she will not exist or be a part of. It is the best thing for me.

It is certainly hard to get used to the lack of the physical contact, but realize that contact with her will not do anything positive for you. It is better to make a clean break IMO.

Also, even though we may be jaded right now, there are still good women out there who will treat you right, and in return you will treat right as well. It is just rough to have to redo the search so to speak.

 

[EasyEJL]

Thanks Zero. You are right. I need to invest some time in myself and something I enjoy doing. Right now it's work, home, and the gym. That's it. Perhaps this would be a good time to finish my motorcycle project in the garage and get my hands dirty again.

He's only right on that part, the rest of what he is saying is psycho


as far as the lonliness, i'm not sure how that would work given that you have your kids. Honestly i get more value contact wise from them than my wife, as their life is constantly changing, and interacting with them is always about something new

 

[Zero V]

He's only right on that part, the rest of what he is saying is psycho


as far as the lonliness, i'm not sure how that would work given that you have your kids. Honestly i get more value contact wise from them than my wife, as their life is constantly changing, and interacting with them is always about something new

thats why said its not something you should not follow lol. I dont think I could really be that bad off, but its nice to think about sticking it to them when they are trying to ruin your life....

You may have had a hard time through this, but other women, good women I think sense it in guys who have bad past relationships. The happiest marriages I come across are people who were divorced before and find the right person. Its obvious the humbleness in your heart and love in your heart, and it shows. The right woman will come along. Just make sure you take that time off in between to let the wounds heal.

I will tell you this though, to be truthful,It may heal, but it will always be a scar. One that may hurt sometimes. I still hurt over my ex, and its been a year and a half and she is married. But ts almost a good hurt, it lets me know I can love, when sometimes I feel I wont be able to say the word love again because I almost don't believe it, its those memories that say yes, yes you can.

 

[Nabisco]

Nightshift, besides the good advice on how to handle your emotional strain through this issue, I wanted to toss out a little more advice more on the legal issues.

If you haven't already sat down and fully discussed your situation with a lawyer, please do. I'm going to share a quick little bit of info with you from my family's personal experience. My parents are just finalizing their divorce and there are a few things I learned from them.

1) Upon filing of legal separation papers, there is a two year grace period before you can take the other person to court to FORCE them to come to a settlement. In other words, if desired your wife could legally refuse to come to a settlement for two years before you are able to take her to court. This leads to all kinds of issues, as if you stop paying for living habits in this time period she can accuse you of abandonment. This is definitely something you should discuss with a lawyer.

2) Your retirement accounts are fair game. All the assets you have acquired since you two were married are fair game. And it's not necessarily a 50/50 split. For instance, in Pennsylvania they take your ability to make money and compare it to your spouses and split on that level. Example:

-You make 100k/yr
-She makes 0k/yr (because she stays at home) but has the ability to make 25k/yr if she got some minimum wage job.

They may say that since you have a much higher earning potential, that she should get more than 50% of your combined assets and/or that you should be required to pay her $X/yr to keep her in a semblance of the life she had become accustomed to.

3) The splitting of assets is a difficult process. What if you both want the house? Then it becomes a negotiation as to what either of you would be willing to give up to keep that house.

So what I'm trying to say is make sure that you have a competent divorce attorney. And more importantly, make sure that you ask all the questions that are bouncing around in your head, no matter how stupid you think they are. The more informed you are the better this will go. Once again, I'm sorry that you're going through something as painful as a divorce, and best of luck to you and your children.

 

[nightshift]

Just when I thought things couldn't get worse, the wife crashed and totaled her car(a very sweet Saab convertible). Paramedics couldn't believe she was alive and basically unhurt. She put the car through 2 one inch steel barrier cables. It sheared the top of the car off. Unreal. The F$%#ed part is that even though she passed a field sobriety test, they did blood work at the hospital and she told me it will be dirty. A detective called and informed her that testing is ongoing and we would hear from them soon. She has retained an attorney. It's really weird because she is very nonchalant about the whole thing. Like it's no big deal. What is my liability, if any, hear. She is still under our joint auto insurance. Any advice.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

Just when I thought things couldn't get worse, the wife crashed and totaled her car(a very sweet Saab convertible). Paramedics couldn't believe she was alive and basically unhurt. She put the car through 2 one inch steel barrier cables. It sheared the top of the car off. Unreal. The F$%#ed part is that even though she passed a field sobriety test, they did blood work at the hospital and she told me it will be dirty. A detective called and informed her that testing is ongoing and we would hear from them soon. She has retained an attorney. It's really weird because she is very nonchalant about the whole thing. Like it's no big deal. What is my liability, if any, hear. She is still under our joint auto insurance. Any advice.

Let me see if I can ask some of my professors Monday, I am not up on this type of law.

 

[Zero V]

Just when I thought things couldn't get worse, the wife crashed and totaled her car(a very sweet Saab convertible). Paramedics couldn't believe she was alive and basically unhurt. She put the car through 2 one inch steel barrier cables. It sheared the top of the car off. Unreal. The F$%#ed part is that even though she passed a field sobriety test, they did blood work at the hospital and she told me it will be dirty. A detective called and informed her that testing is ongoing and we would hear from them soon. She has retained an attorney. It's really weird because she is very nonchalant about the whole thing. Like it's no big deal. What is my liability, if any, hear. She is still under our joint auto insurance. Any advice.

Well....I am sorry to hear that, and do to the forthcoming divorce you may be able to work something out with the insurance....but if her blood work comes back dirty....you just got a helping hand in court......a big one....

 

[AE14]

I think Zero is on to something here. If it comes back dirty, she is going to want to move this along quickly and quietly. You now have something extra in your pocket when you need it

 

[Beau]

I think Zero is on to something here. If it comes back dirty, she is going to want to move this along quickly and quietly. You now have something extra in your pocket when you need it

I wish I had something in my pocket - but my ex has already picked them dry. And I get the honor of attending a mandatory settlement conference on Sept 2; exactly one year after I learned that she was having and affair with Doug, her boss.

Oh, and the counseling with my daughter - her heiness just canceled again today; this time some sort of mysterious last minute soccer event. She plays Premier Club Soccer in So Cal, the tournaments are scheduled weeks in advance. I guess Mommy is a bit passive/aggressive.

I am hoping there is a very harsh menopause in her future.

 

[Usf97j4x4]

I am hoping there is a very harsh menopause in her future.

Quote of the day

 

[Zero V]

I wish I had something in my pocket - but my ex has already picked them dry. And I get the honor of attending a mandatory settlement conference on Sept 2; exactly one year after I learned that she was having and affair with Doug, her boss.

Oh, and the counseling with my daughter - her heiness just canceled again today; this time some sort of mysterious last minute soccer event. She plays Premier Club Soccer in So Cal, the tournaments are scheduled weeks in advance. I guess Mommy is a bit passive/aggressive.

I am hoping there is a very harsh menopause in her future.

Bro, it doesn't sound possible. But what goes around comes around...if not in this life....then in the next. Regardless of your beliefs, I think men of every color, from every country, and of every type agree about cheating women.....and so does all their beliefs lol.

I think America should allow stoning for cheating spouses...

 

[Beau]

Bro, it doesn't sound possible. But what goes around comes around...if not in this life....then in the next

Thanks - and I really am trying to fight the good fight. Divorce in a no-fault state, for a man who didn't do a damn thing and who makes much more money than his boss-humping, serial adulteress wife, is an emotional drain and is financial ruinous. I get to subsidize her cellulite-ridden buttocks for cheating on me.

I jut hope to be able to save my house.

And all the while, she twists my 15 year old daughter's mind, and my two college age sons will no longer even talk to their mother.

But looking at the good news - she is almost out of my life (except financially).

 

[EasyEJL]

Just when I thought things couldn't get worse, the wife crashed and totaled her car(a very sweet Saab convertible). Paramedics couldn't believe she was alive and basically unhurt. She put the car through 2 one inch steel barrier cables. It sheared the top of the car off. Unreal. The F$%#ed part is that even though she passed a field sobriety test, they did blood work at the hospital and she told me it will be dirty. A detective called and informed her that testing is ongoing and we would hear from them soon. She has retained an attorney. It's really weird because she is very nonchalant about the whole thing. Like it's no big deal. What is my liability, if any, hear. She is still under our joint auto insurance. Any advice.

you have no real legal liability for the accident itself. However, there are a few areas you DO have liability for. The major one being somewhat responsible for her transportation if she does end up loosing her license. Another is any deductible on the insurance, and any remaining balance on a car loan. My suggestion is to get her to move out of the house ASAP. Help her get another car as a part of it, but get her the hell out. She might even have drugs stashed in the house, and if the blood tests come back positive for marijuana, cocaine, heroin, etc do you feel like potentially being held responsible because you own the house as well? That is potentially your biggest liability area.

 

[AE14]

I am hoping there is a very harsh menopause in her future.

Best line I have heard in a long time

:thumbsup:

 

[Zero V]

if its positive for drugs can you call the cops to search your own house?!?!

 

[broken7]

shitty deal man, keep your head up.

 

[Irish Cannon]

I think America should allow stoning for cheating spouses...

We just need to adopt Israel's justice system.

If there is a wrongdoing among your family, you get to pick the penalty and carry it out yourself. Woot. I doubt affairs count in that though.

 

[Zero V]

We just need to adopt Israel's justice system.

If there is a wrongdoing among your family, you get to pick the penalty and carry it out yourself. Woot. I doubt affairs count in that though.

Actually they do.

In most other countries where faith s their basis for law(most faiths work) cheating is worse than murder. Its death of the spirit, not the body. The pain you can cause someone is worse than killing them, because they would have went to their heaven/other side/etc depending on the faith. They also hurt the children, and their family's honor.

I think only 1% of America has actual honor. Worthy of it at least.

I mean if you killed all the cheaters in america you would probably reduce population by 50%

 

[Omen]

Actually they do.

In most other countries where faith s their basis for law(most faiths work) cheating is worse than murder. Its death of the spirit, not the body. The pain you can cause someone is worse than killing them, because they would have went to their heaven/other side/etc depending on the faith. They also hurt the children, and their family's honor.

I think only 1% of America has actual honor. Worthy of it at least.

I mean if you killed all the cheaters in america you would probably reduce population by 50%

About the religion and faith, first paragraph, that is some grade A, home grown, grass fed bull f*cking sh*t. :thumbsup:

You'd rather die, than have your wife cheat on you? mmmmkay....

1. Sweden (up to 85% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)
2. Vietnam
3. Denmark
4. Norway
5. Japan
6. Czech Republic
7. Finland
8. France
9. South Korea
10. Estonia (up to 49% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)

The one that surprised me was Israel, ranking 19th, with up to 37% claiming to be non-believer, atheist, agnostic. Compare that with the United States, ranking 44th, with 3-9% non-believers, atheists, agnostics. (I think I have met them all on the streets of New York City, too.)

The survey concluded that "high levels of organic atheism are strongly correlated with high levels of societal health, such as low homicide rates, low poverty rates, low infant mortality rates, and low illiteracy rates, as well as high levels of educational attainment, per capita income, and gender equality. Most nations characterized by high degrees of individual and societal security have the highest rates of organic atheism, and conversely, nations characterized by low degrees of individual and societal security have the lowest rates of organic atheism. In some societies, particularly Europe, atheism is growing. However, throughout much of the world -- particularly nations with high birth rates -- atheism is barely discernable."

Source: Invalid Link Removed

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are diseases of society.

Regarding honor and cheating:

Honor: I agree a lot with this, that the honor or loyalty in this country is dropping big time and cowardice is rampant, when you see a woman and her kid get beat up and 10-20 people, including "men" that just stand there and watch like idiots and dial 911 and you're the only one that interferes, you know there's something ****ing wrong with this country, Cowardice, Treason and Lying are too ****ing rampant in this country, stupidity too....oh and religion (no homo)

Cheating: If you kill all the cheaters, which IMO is too harsh, you'd lose a big ****ing chunk of the population, personally, I've slept with a large amount of married women or with bfs, but I'm never in a relationship so I'm not cheating, rather than force a "solution" tackle the problem, Monogamy(marriage) isn't natural for some/most people, once the social stigma of being single and having sex with whoever is gone less people will get married and eventually, less cheating.

In fact, marriages should expire every 1,2,5,10,15,20 years, you choose , but you have to choose one, 2 months before expiration, they send you a letter, to each person, and each of them must sign it and notarize and send it before the deadline, if both renewals are not received, the marriage is no longer valid.

 

[Zero V]

About the religion and faith, first paragraph, that is some grade A, home grown, grass fed bull f*cking sh*t. :thumbsup:

You'd rather die, than have your wife cheat on you? mmmmkay....

1. Sweden (up to 85% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)
2. Vietnam
3. Denmark
4. Norway
5. Japan
6. Czech Republic
7. Finland
8. France
9. South Korea
10. Estonia (up to 49% non-believer, atheist, agnostic)

The one that surprised me was Israel, ranking 19th, with up to 37% claiming to be non-believer, atheist, agnostic. Compare that with the United States, ranking 44th, with 3-9% non-believers, atheists, agnostics. (I think I have met them all on the streets of New York City, too.)

The survey concluded that "high levels of organic atheism are strongly correlated with high levels of societal health, such as low homicide rates, low poverty rates, low infant mortality rates, and low illiteracy rates, as well as high levels of educational attainment, per capita income, and gender equality. Most nations characterized by high degrees of individual and societal security have the highest rates of organic atheism, and conversely, nations characterized by low degrees of individual and societal security have the lowest rates of organic atheism. In some societies, particularly Europe, atheism is growing. However, throughout much of the world -- particularly nations with high birth rates -- atheism is barely discernable."

Source: Invalid Link Removed

Judaism, Christianity and Islam are diseases of society.

Regarding honor and cheating:

Honor: I agree a lot with this, that the honor or loyalty in this country is dropping big time and cowardice is rampant, when you see a woman and her kid get beat up and 10-20 people, including "men" that just stand there and watch like idiots and dial 911 and you're the only one that interferes, you know there's something ****ing wrong with this country, Cowardice, Treason and Lying are too ****ing rampant in this country, stupidity too....oh and religion (no homo)

Cheating: If you kill all the cheaters, which IMO is too harsh, you'd lose a big ****ing chunk of the population, personally, I've slept with a large amount of married women or with bfs, but I'm never in a relationship so I'm not cheating, rather than force a "solution" tackle the problem, Monogamy(marriage) isn't natural for some/most people, once the social stigma of being single and having sex with whoever is gone less people will get married and eventually, less cheating.

In fact, marriages should expire every 1,2,5,10,15,20 years, you choose , but you have to choose one, 2 months before expiration, they send you a letter, to each person, and each of them must sign it and notarize and send it before the deadline, if both renewals are not received, the marriage is no longer valid.

If you sleep with a married woman you are nothing but crap that cape out of a fly's rear end after it ate the crap that came from the back end of a dung beetle who was feeding off of bush's toilet....