Wife Has COVID-19

[thebigt]

man, if this thread got anymore full respect and mutual care for each other we would all be sitting cross legged in a circle passing joints around like back in the days of the real 'summer of love', lol.

 

[mavup]

Yes, and I hope all of you in this thread with natural immunity (which is basically everyone commenting) fair well and trust you will! I think we will all have to reevaluate things as the virus evolves, as well as vaccines. I am convinced us healthcare workers have gotten exposed to small viral loads since the beginning of this. So I do believe I may have a mixed immunity going on. Of course I could be completely wrong...haha.

Interestingly, I found out yesterday that we are not required to get the booster at MaineHealth even though most of us are close to 8 months out. You actually have to quality for it through having a legit immunosuppressive disease. Of course that could change.

It is likely that the minimum viral dose necessary for a full immune response from a natural infection is between 300 and 1000 virions - below that, the immune response won’t be as robust, but perhaps it would have an effect against severe disease. So it doesn’t seem that far fetched for you to have some sort of “mixed immunity”

 

[Dustin07]

man, if this thread got anymore full respect and mutual care for each other we would all be sitting cross legged in a circle passing joints around like back in the days of the real 'summer of love', lol.

for a bunch of T loaded dudes we are starting to sound a little hand-holdy lol

 

[Dustin07]

Whether you are vaccinated or not I do 100% believe in my heart that your mental health plays an extremely crucial role in everything we do, be it gym or just recovering from illness..... so I hope everyone here is able to detox their minds from the news and media from time to time, as I feel that the inundation of badnews is about as harmful as everything else we are exposed to right now.

 

[thebigt]

120,000 vaccinated bay area residents have no proof, government has no plans to help

 

[thebigt]

biden admin is now weighing covid booster shots after 5 months rather than the original 8 months....

 

[Kronic]

biden admin is now weighing covid booster shots after 5 months rather than the original 8 months....

I can't wait for employers to try to enforce booster shots

 

[thebigt]

I can't wait for employers to try to enforce booster shots

if biden tells them to i bet they will.

 

[Whisky]

man, if this thread got anymore full respect and mutual care for each other we would all be sitting cross legged in a circle passing joints around like back in the days of the real 'summer of love', lol.

**** I miss them days

 

[Whisky]

I do think this forum is actually one of the better examples of where people can have a civilised discussion with opposing views but an acceptance that everyone is entitled to their own view and that’s ok if it differs from our own.

covid as a topic can’t really have a right or wrong (too much unknown at this stage) but we can take a view based on what we do know.

when I look at Facebook it’s so black and white with people stating facts about what is the ‘truth’

the media in the uk are starting to become more clearly bias imo. Last year it was very much a consistent message that anyone under 50 who was fit and healthy shouldn’t panic at all as the risk was crazy low and the reason to socially distance was to protect others (we had campaigns based on that message). Suddenly the last 3’months it’s all about how many younger fit and healthy people are now getting really ill with covid and you have to get jabbed ASAP. That influences people to put pressure on people they know (my family keep pressuring me to get the jab now, last year literally no one was worried about me getting covid).

crazy times and imo they aren’t over yet

 

[thebigt]

I do think this forum is actually one of the better examples of where people can have a civilised discussion with opposing views but an acceptance that everyone is entitled to their own view and that’s ok if it differs from our own.

covid as a topic can’t really have a right or wrong (too much unknown at this stage) but we can take a view based on what we do know.

when I look at Facebook it’s so black and white with people stating facts about what is the ‘truth’

the media in the uk are starting to become more clearly bias imo. Last year it was very much a consistent message that anyone under 50 who was fit and healthy shouldn’t panic at all as the risk was crazy low and the reason to socially distance was to protect others (we had campaigns based on that message). Suddenly the last 3’months it’s all about how many younger fit and healthy people are now getting really ill with covid and you have to get jabbed ASAP. That influences people to put pressure on people they know (my family keep pressuring me to get the jab now, last year literally no one was worried about me getting covid).

crazy times and imo they aren’t over yet

the coercion to get vaccinated is going to reach into every facet of our lives....

ricky says that someone like me who has had covid risks possible long term side effects even though i had very mild symptoms and i feel great...if they were to infiltrate my life and make it virtually impossible for me to avoid getting vaccinated then i would face what i consider very possible side effects from the vaccine..so i would have twice the risk of getting side effects---even though many in the scientific community say that it is unnecessary for me to be vaccinated.

 

[Whisky]

the coercion to get vaccinated is going to reach into every facet of our lives....

ricky says that someone like me who has had covid risks possible long term side effects even though i had very mild symptoms and i feel great...if they were to infiltrate my life and make it virtually impossible for me to avoid getting vaccinated then i would face what i consider very possible side effects from the vaccine..so i would have twice the risk of getting side effects---even though many in the scientific community say that it is unnecessary for me to be vaccinated.

my personal view is that if you had confirmed covid and recovered that should have the same status as being vaccinated. Some of the research I’m seeing suggests the naturally produced anti bodies have a better protection and are more likely to be protective against new variants.

as far as I know in the uk proof of having recovered from covid does allow the same access as vaccination at the moment (of course that may change down the line).

personally I expect there will be additional testing requirements on those of us unvaccinated. International travel may be harder or limited. I personally don’t see private employers mandating it en mass in the UK but I definitely don’t see mine (I’m based from home and earn them too much), however the public sector organisations I deal with may be more problematic…..

 

[rob112]

Anyone in here following the data coming out of Israel? Sorry if discussed. Great thread but long so I only read a handful of pages.

I do appreciate the civil discourse. Social media is nothing like that.

 

[thebigt]

Anyone in here following the data coming out of Israel? Sorry if discussed. Great thread but long so I only read a handful of pages.

I do appreciate the civil discourse. Social media is nothing like that.

i think the article poison posted about the immunity of people who have had covid was from israel---if you google it, all the information i saw that was coming from CDC said those who have had covid still need to get vaccinated-no exception.

 

[Nac]

CDC said those who have had covid still need to get vaccinated-no exception.

It did appear from the study poison posted that people who had been previously infected + had 1 shot of vaccine were in the group that fared best as far as reinfection was concerned.

 

[thebigt]

It did appear from the study poison posted that people who had been previously infected + had 1 shot of vaccine were in the group that fared best as far as reinfection was concerned.

as far as i know no workplace, university or whatever has made any concession for people who have had covid?

it wouldn't be that difficult to obtain proof of positive test from place of testing.

 

[Kronic]

Joe Rogan claims he is unvaccinated and also doesn't have antibodies, while having been exposed. so I wonder what's up with that

 

[puccah8808]

Knock on wood, but only one person at work has gotten Covid. She kept flying back and forth to visit her kids in SoCal.

 

[rob112]

i think the article poison posted about the immunity of people who have had covid was from israel---if you google it, all the information i saw that was coming from CDC said those who have had covid still need to get vaccinated-no exception.

Off the top of my head roughly 80% of their population 12 and up is vaccinated. They did a shut down. 0 cases(known). Went back to normal. Covid surge of cases with in hundred of previous high before the vaccine.

I’m not commenting on the therapeutic qualities of the vaccine, but it appears to me most likely we will continue with this regardless of vaccination and most of us will likely get it at some point.

They are fascinating to watch because such high vaccination numbers, and they were the first to get these high numbers of vaccination.

I’m not saying the vaccine can’t help, but it does not appear to stop the virus. I hate doing disclaimers but it seems necessary in the times we are in unfortunately.

 

[rob112]

Joe Rogan claims he is unvaccinated and also doesn't have antibodies, while having been exposed. so I wonder what's up with that

Could be his great health but honestly don’t know. I know a couple house holds it went through where one person did not get it. Crazy. They are no joe rogans either.

 

[Kronic]

Could be his great health but honestly don’t know. I know a couple house holds it went through where one person did not get it. Crazy. They are no joe rogans either.

ya but what everyone says is that person is probably asymptomatic and has antibodies now. my guess you'd have to stop the virus in your nasal cavity. wouldn't it be funny if it was something as simple as blowing your nose

 

[Ricky10]

the coercion to get vaccinated is going to reach into every facet of our lives....

ricky says that someone like me who has had covid risks possible long term side effects even though i had very mild symptoms and i feel great...if they were to infiltrate my life and make it virtually impossible for me to avoid getting vaccinated then i would face what i consider very possible side effects from the vaccine..so i would have twice the risk of getting side effects---even though many in the scientific community say that it is unnecessary for me to be vaccinated.

All very true. Given you live a very rural lifestyle, and have your natural immunity, I sincerely hope you don’t face any mandates that really leave you no choice. Of course I also hope you don’t become a victim of long term sides from anything.

HOPEFULLY, the virus will be more benign for everyone after this delta wave and we will all be in a better position. I know everyone is tired of this, and it has to get out of our lives before we all go insane!

While I realize it has been draining for everyone, can you picture me dealing with what everyone else does, plus the immense toll my work has had on my life. I do struggle with it a lot!

 

[thebigt]

All very true. Given you live a very rural lifestyle, and have your natural immunity, I sincerely hope you don’t face any mandates that really leave you no choice. Of course I also hope you don’t become a victim of long term sides from anything.

HOPEFULLY, the virus will be more benign for everyone after this delta wave and we will all be in a better position. I know everyone is tired of this, and it has to get out of our lives before we all go insane!

While I realize it has been draining for everyone, can you picture me dealing with what everyone else does, plus the immense toll my work has had on my life. I do struggle with it a lot!

thanks for the kind words, ricky...

one of my biggest problems with medicine is how protocols get set up to treat illnesses with a one size fits all approach-probably insurance company 'MANDATES' have a lot to do with this...but what is appropriate for one patient may not be appropriate for another...the same applies to the approach being taken with covid-no exception is being made for those who have had covid + no consideration is being made to distinguish between hard hit and not so hard hit areas.

life for those of us who live in the area where i live bears very little resemblance to what you describe life as being like where you live, so can you imagine us having to deal with mandates because of areas like yours?

 

[Dustin07]

I had a meeting with a lender friday morning (phone), and we scheduled in person 5 days later. He called me back 12 hours later and let me know that he just tested positive so we needed to cancel. in a matter of less than 24 hours he went from sounding normal on the phone to sounding like complete miserable crap. He is fully vaccinated. He and I plan to talk tomorrow on the phone to see how he's doing and if he's up for WFH... so I'll let you know how that goes.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I also find it humorous people like to throw out the fictitious .02% risk of dying as a reason that you shouldn't be afraid of the virus, but then turn around and state that you SHOULD be afraid of a vaccine because of a .001% risk.

Hang on, let's be clear about something. No one has any idea what risk the vaccine has. They've been out 6 months. Period.

 

[Dustin07]

some things we have always known. here are things we were told from the beginning and never have these facts been changed as far as I know:

Under 40, extremely low risk. Under 50 still low risk. Under 60 is pretty low risk.
Vax people will still get covid, it lowers symptoms. Vax people are still contagious even if asymptomatic.
we've always been told asymptomatic carriers are contagious.
New oxford study shows vax folks are far more contagious than unvax

Me: Under 40, already had covid, have antibodies. There isn't any science that indicates that I am better off with an experimental vaccine. there isn't enough time, data or science to tell me how long my antibodies last, or how they will fight against delta. There simply isn't any reason out there for me to get a vax. especially already being a covid "survivor".


Furthermore, in my real life experiences I'm now finding more vax'd people who are legit sick. not asymptomatic carriers. I don't see much value in the vax. My stance has always been that the vax should have only been reserved for the most sensitive demographics if anyone at all. give it to grandpa and grandma, let little charlie go to school like we used to with the chicken pox.

 

[poison]

Anyone in here following the data coming out of Israel? Sorry if discussed. Great thread but long so I only read a handful of pages.

I do appreciate the civil discourse. Social media is nothing like that.

Israeli data:

Vaxxed 7x more likely to get covid than prior infected.

Vaxxed will have to receive booster shot, prior infected won't.

 

[poison]

It did appear from the study poison posted that people who had been previously infected + had 1 shot of vaccine were in the group that fared best as far as reinfection was concerned.

That's debatable. Antibodies are not the sole indicator or immune capability or strength, if that's what they were measuring (I don't recall). You only need 100%; 105% doesn't mean you are more protected.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Israeli data:

Vaxxed 7x more likely to get covid than prior infected.

Vaxxed will have to receive booster shot, prior infected won't.

Can you please post the source for this?

 

[poison]

Natural infection vs vaccination: Which gives more protection?

Nearly 40% of new COVID patients were vaccinated - compared to just 1% who had been infected previously.

www.israelnationalnews.com

https://www.gov.il/en/departments/general/corona-certificates

Israel widens 3rd COVID booster shot to those aged 12 and over

Those who've had 3rd dose, or 2nd dose within past half-year, will be exempt from full 7-day quarantine when returning from abroad; 'Green Pass' to expire 6 months after last dose

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[rob112]

Israeli data:

Vaxxed 7x more likely to get covid than prior infected.

Vaxxed will have to receive booster shot, prior infected won't.

People should know this is probably just because the vaccine does not stop transmission and there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated. Vaccine is not causal as far as I can tell, but it doesn’t stop anything.

 

[cronikgains]

Not sure why this has become such a political fight... I am 30, vaccinated, and still wear a mask out in public. I'm not worried about me, I am worried about others. I am worried about by 11 month old baby who has never been sick so he doesn't have much of an immune system.

I'm sick of the media that brings a ton of attention to the very rare cases where the vaccine has a negative side effect. I am sick of this being such a political fight that people think wearing a mask or getting vaccinated is somehow hurting their freedom.

If we all just wore masks from the beginning, it wouldn't have spread, mutated, etc. I got religious family members who believe God is protecting them, they don't need to wear mask or get vaccinated. God gave us brains and intelligence to know how to fight something like this. One of the biggest threats to mankind is a virus, probably not this one, but one day a virus could in fact wipe out most of humanity - especially if we argue against science - which btw changes as more data is collected.

Over 648k deaths from covid in the US. How many people carry a gun for the rare chance they might need to protect themselves and people they love, but refuse to wear a damn mask? I know too many people who died from this, and I think it's such a silly thing to even fight about. This is 2021 we understand how to prevent deaths, how to prevent the virus from mutating and spreading.. one side looks for every excuse to prey on people's fears about government control.. it's sick.

Most vaccinated people aren't ending up the hospital, IDC if you happen to know one or two people who have - numbers don't lie.

 

[Dustin07]

If we all just wore masks from the beginning, it wouldn't have spread, mutated, etc. I got religious family members who believe God is protecting them, they don't need to wear mask or get vaccinated. God gave us brains and intelligence to know how to fight something like this. One of the biggest threats to mankind is a virus, probably not this one, but one day a virus could in fact wipe out most of humanity - especially if we argue against science - which btw changes as more data is collected.

I think your family is right. My entire family got COVID and nobody got more than the sniffles.


“When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people, if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. "

2 Chronicles 7:13-14

 

[poison]

People should know this is probably just because the vaccine does not stop transmission and there are more vaccinated than unvaccinated. Vaccine is not causal as far as I can tell, but it doesn’t stop anything.

No. '7x more likely' is NOT '7x as many'. Vaxxed are more likely to have covid than previously infected.

There could be several reasons for this:

1) Delta evades vaccines

2) Vaxxed people increase risky behaviors (ie attending an indoor crowded event 'because I'm vaxxed and therefore safe')

3) Waning vaccine effectiveness vs non-waning natural immunity

 

[poison]

Not sure why this has become such a political fight... I am 30, vaccinated, and still wear a mask out in public. I'm not worried about me, I am worried about others. I am worried about by 11 month old baby who has never been sick so he doesn't have much of an immune system.

I'm sick of the media that brings a ton of attention to the very rare cases where the vaccine has a negative side effect. I am sick of this being such a political fight that people think wearing a mask or getting vaccinated is somehow hurting their freedom.

That's NOT what the media does. Overall, the media ethers any negative vaccine reports. They DO highlight the one-off 'look a healthy 27yo ultra-endurance runner got covid and died' though, incessantly.

If we all just wore masks from the beginning, it wouldn't have spread, mutated, etc.

Wrong. Utterly false, and easily provable. Masks haven't stopped anything in countries with near 100% mask adherence. Welcome to the 4th wave, where masks will finally work even though they didn't the other 3 times!!!

I got religious family members who believe God is protecting them, they don't need to wear mask or get vaccinated. God gave us brains and intelligence to know how to fight something like this. One of the biggest threats to mankind is a virus, probably not this one, but one day a virus could in fact wipe out most of humanity - especially if we argue against science - which btw changes as more data is collected.

Over 648k deaths from covid in the US. How many people carry a gun for the rare chance they might need to protect themselves and people they love, but refuse to wear a damn mask? I know too many people who died from this, and I think it's such a silly thing to even fight about. This is 2021 we understand how to prevent deaths, how to prevent the virus from mutating and spreading.. one side looks for every excuse to prey on people's fears about government control.. it's sick.

Most vaccinated people aren't ending up the hospital, IDC if you happen to know one or two people who have - numbers don't lie.

We know how to what? More falsehoods. Name one respiratory virus with animal reservoirs that we have ever prevented from doing anything. I'll wait.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Not sure why this has become such a political fight... I am 30, vaccinated, and still wear a mask out in public. I'm not worried about me, I am worried about others. I am worried about by 11 month old baby who has never been sick so he doesn't have much of an immune system.

I'm sick of the media that brings a ton of attention to the very rare cases where the vaccine has a negative side effect. I am sick of this being such a political fight that people think wearing a mask or getting vaccinated is somehow hurting their freedom.

If we all just wore masks from the beginning, it wouldn't have spread, mutated, etc. I got religious family members who believe God is protecting them, they don't need to wear mask or get vaccinated. God gave us brains and intelligence to know how to fight something like this. One of the biggest threats to mankind is a virus, probably not this one, but one day a virus could in fact wipe out most of humanity - especially if we argue against science - which btw changes as more data is collected.

Over 648k deaths from covid in the US. How many people carry a gun for the rare chance they might need to protect themselves and people they love, but refuse to wear a damn mask? I know too many people who died from this, and I think it's such a silly thing to even fight about. This is 2021 we understand how to prevent deaths, how to prevent the virus from mutating and spreading.. one side looks for every excuse to prey on people's fears about government control.. it's sick.

Most vaccinated people aren't ending up the hospital, IDC if you happen to know one or two people who have - numbers don't lie.

You getting a vaccine doesn't help others though. That's the problem. *Maybe* it helps you, but me getting it doesn't effect you. Lastly, you're missing that both sides have politicized all of it.

Edit: I'll state again, I'm not anti-vax or anti-covid vax. I'm "wait for actual well established safety data" which we do not have.

 

[cronikgains]

Wrong. Utterly false, and easily provable. Masks haven't stopped anything in countries with near 100% mask adherence. Welcome to the 4th wave, where masks will finally work even though they didn't the other 3 times!!!

2 Stylists Had Coronavirus, but Wore Masks. 139 Clients Didn’t Fall Sick. (Published 2020)

A new study looks at what might have been a dangerous outbreak — had it not been for vigilant mask wearing.

www.nytimes.com

Masks don't work? I've been around people with covid and never got it. The problem is it doesn't work unless everyone wears one. WTH do you think doctors and nurses have been doing forever now? they wear masks. It works. Even when my city was under a mask mandate nobody wanted to wear one and only 50% of the people did, now none are, and cases are at an all-time high last time I checked.

They didn't work because not everyone listened and it only takes one good outbreak in a community for the virus to spread. People don't typically wear masks in their homes in front of family members and close friends. Obviously mask mandates don't equal no covid, but it definitely helps. Once the mask mandate where I live was lifted, covid hit us hard.

Sure, the media highlights cases where people die, even when it's something rare like a younger, healthier person. But, the difference between that media is that they're simply highlighting the risks, and numbers don't lie, hundreds of thousands have died. People do need to take it seriously. People don't need to be scared of a vaccine or think wearing a mask is pointless. That doesn't help anyone.

Honestly, I HATE that the government would ever have to tell us to wear masks. If health officials say it's what we need to do, then we should just do it. No government should have to tell its people to do the right thing. But I guess we also need a government and law to tell us not to kill or steal cause it isn't a perfect world. It isn't the biggest deal. I work 50/50 inside and outside in the heat, I lift heavy shyt all day at work and sweat non-stop. I still wear a mask when I'm inside - yet some of the people I know who only work inside refuse to wear one cause "it's too hot - I can't breathe" - pansies.

I think your family is right. My entire family got COVID and nobody got more than the sniffles.


“When I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or command locusts to devour the land or send a plague among my people, if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. "

2 Chronicles 7:13-14

I'm sincerely happy for you guys, as that's awesome. I just wish it was the same for everyone.

In a city near me a 7 year old boy died from covid not long ago, he had no underlying health issues. It makes me feel good knowing I won't be responsible for that, and any decent person should feel that way, that's why we wear masks. At my job with probably 40 co-workers, me and one other guy are the only ones who wear masks. An older guy was out for a month and said it was the worst sickness he ever had... people are always sick and out right now but most of us are younger.. I worry about the older folks who might not make it. Guess that's the difference between being a leader or a follower though.. masks aren't cool, I get it.

For me... I now live in a small town and if something serious happened to my baby I would have to take him to a hospital hours away from where I live as my local one is at capacity. That means I'll have to miss work days and lose money on top of everything else.

It's ignorant or narcissistic to think religion will make things better for you - how many of the people who have died were Christian? I bet it's a huge chunk of them.

 

[Jiigzz]

Thankfully, her symptoms only consist of runny nose, congestion, mild cough and a little fatigue. No fever or any other trademark symptoms. I hardly believed she was sick at all honestly but she knew something wasn't right. She's taking 600mg NAC twice per day, >10g vitamin C per day, 5000iu vitamin D, multi, GutHealth, and starting tomorrow GTE and olive leaf extract. Anyone else take anything that helped their symptoms if they had it?

I'll likely be starting quercetin tomorrow and maybe the NAC. But for me since my BP runs a little high, I'm concerned about the bizarre thing NAC can do.

One Type Of Antioxidant May Not Be As Safe As Once Thought

According to new research an antioxidant commonly used in nutritional and body-building supplements can form a red blood cell-derived molecule that makes blood vessels think they are not getting enough oxygen. This leads to pulmonary arterial hypertension, a serious condition characterized by...

www.sciencedaily.com

Is this for real or just FUD like a lot of mainstream beliefs about supplements? Any thoughts on any of this great appreciated. And if you're a praying man (or woman), we would greatly appreciate prayers for healing and safety in our family. Thanks.

Late to the party, but in case you were interested, the article is just research in mice at this stage, and very preliminary at that. Would take a bit more research to determine if it is actually an issue. What the authors are hoping is that the people doing the research in humans will explore their findings further.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Late to the party, but in case you were interested, the article is just research in mice at this stage, and very preliminary at that. Would take a bit more research to determine if it is actually an issue. What the authors are hoping is that the people doing the research in humans will explore their findings further.

Thanks. I'll be trying it out soon. NAC may be the missing piece I need from the potential benefits I've read of

 

[poison]

2 Stylists Had Coronavirus, but Wore Masks. 139 Clients Didn’t Fall Sick. (Published 2020)

A new study looks at what might have been a dangerous outbreak — had it not been for vigilant mask wearing.

www.nytimes.com

Masks don't work? I've been around people with covid and never got it. The problem is it doesn't work unless everyone wears one. WTH do you think doctors and nurses have been doing forever now? they wear masks. It works. Even when my city was under a mask mandate nobody wanted to wear one and only 50% of the people did, now none are, and cases are at an all-time high last time I checked.

They didn't work because not everyone listened and it only takes one good outbreak in a community for the virus to spread. People don't typically wear masks in their homes in front of family members and close friends. Obviously mask mandates don't equal no covid, but it definitely helps. Once the mask mandate where I live was lifted, covid hit us hard.

1) when your strongest evidence in support of masks is the CDC discussion (NOT a study) of an anecdote involving 2 hairdressers, after the fact, then you have no evidence at all.

2) Masks are tradition, not much more. Feel free to substitute 'magical', 'a talisman', 'superstition', 'adult blankies' for the word 'tradition'. All are accurate.

Unmasking the surgeons: the evidence base behind the use of facemasks in surgery

The use of surgical facemasks is ubiquitous in surgical practice. Facemasks have long been thought to confer protection to the patient from wound infection and contamination from the operating surgeon and other members of the surgical staff. More recently, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

A contemporary questionnaire-based study, which attempted to assess the attitudes of surgeons, revealed that 96% of responders wore facemasks.1 About equal numbers did so with the primary aim of protecting the patients compared to protecting themselves. However, it was also found that 20% of responding surgeons wore the mask for the sole purpose of respecting tradition.

-----

Intuition would suggest that facemasks offer a physical barrier preventing the emanation of droplets from the oral or nasal passages and therefore satisfy the efficacy requirement of the evidence ladder. However, there are a number of different hypotheses as to why this may not be the case. ‘Venting’ is a phenomenon whereby air leaks at the interface between mask and face which can act to disperse potential contaminants originating from the pharynx.5 The accumulation of moisture, during prolonged usage, may exacerbate this problem by increasing resistance to air flow through the filter itself. Moisture accumulation is also thought to facilitate the movement of contaminants through the material of the mask itself by capillary action. These bacteria can subsequently be dislodged by movement. Friction at the face/mask interface has also been demonstrated to disperse skin scales which can further contribute towards wound contamination.6
In the modern era, there has also been a scarcity of experimental evidence to support the effectiveness of facemasks in the prevention of surgical site infections. The earliest retrospective studies7 failed to demonstrate any statistically significant improvement in surgical site infection rates following the use of masks. Indeed, the latest National Institute for Health and Care Excellence guidelines on the matter do not require operating staff to wear a mask in theatre.8

Statistical analysis of the extracted data revealed no statistically significant association between mask usage and the incidence of surgical site infection. The study concluded that ‘it is unclear whether the wearing of surgical facemasks by members of the surgical team has any impact on surgical wound infection rates for patients undergoing clean surgery’.

Given the uncertainty in effectiveness of facemasks in preventing surgical site infection, it is impossible to perform a cost-to-benefit analysis on mask usage.

Despite clear evidence that facemasks act to protect the theatre staff from macroscopic facial contamination, there are studies to suggest that they fail to protect surgeons from potentially hazardous sub-micrometre contaminants.21 This corresponds roughly to the size range of infectious bacteria while viruses are even smaller. Therefore, the protection that masks confer in the form of macroscopic facial contamination may not necessarily extend towards any microscopic infectious agents present within that contamination.
Proponents of the surgical facemask may argue that even if they fail to completely negate the risks of infection they are likely to reduce exposure in a dose-dependent manner. While this field has not been extensively investigated, preliminary work suggests that facemasks fail to confer any degree of protection from infection due to streptococcal and staphylococcal bacterial species22 or hepatitis B virus.23 Furthermore, a facemask splash may promote a false sense of security, as surgeons may be less likely to report these as an occupational exposure to bodily fluid compared to frank facial contamination.

Facemasks do have a clear role in maintaining the social cleanliness of surgical staff, but evidence is lacking to suggest that they confer protection from infection either to patients or to the surgeons that wear them.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

It is also clear that masks serve symbolic roles. Masks are not only tools, they are also talismans that may help increase health care workers’ perceived sense of safety, well-being, and trust in their hospitals. Although such reactions may not be strictly logical, we are all subject to fear and anxiety, especially during times of crisis. One might argue that fear and anxiety are better countered with data and education than with a marginally beneficial mask, particularly in light of the worldwide mask shortage, but it is difficult to get clinicians to hear this message in the heat of the current crisis. Expanded masking protocols’ greatest contribution may be to reduce the transmission of anxiety, over and above whatever role they may play in reducing transmission of Covid-19.

lol

Keep in mind that merely addresses your comment on doctors, as if that's evidence masks work. Clearly there is no evidence they change outcomes significantly IN A HOSPITAL SETTING, WITH TRAINED INDIVIDUALS. We are not in hospital settings, nor is the general public trained in proper mask usage, not to mention the fact that operating room exposure to pathogens is primarily large droplets, while the publics exposure is primarily aerosol, which NO masks stops effectively, in the context of current public usage.

Sure, the media highlights cases where people die, even when it's something rare like a younger, healthier person. But, the difference between that media is that they're simply highlighting the risks, and numbers don't lie, hundreds of thousands have died. People do need to take it seriously. People don't need to be scared of a vaccine or think wearing a mask is pointless. That doesn't help anyone.

It's not your job, or the gov'ts, to tell me what to be scared of, or how to be scared. Maybe I take it seriously, but I'm not scared? Maybe I don't take it seriously? Maybe I rail AIDS ho's and base jump before breakfast every morning? Stay in your lane and mind your business.

Honestly, I HATE that the government would ever have to tell us to wear masks. If health officials say it's what we need to do, then we should just do it. No government should have to tell its people to do the right thing. But I guess we also need a government and law to tell us not to kill or steal cause it isn't a perfect world. It isn't the biggest deal. I work 50/50 inside and outside in the heat, I lift heavy shyt all day at work and sweat non-stop. I still wear a mask when I'm inside - yet some of the people I know who only work inside refuse to wear one cause "it's too hot - I can't breathe" - pansies.

The gov't didn't have to, but they did anyway. Guess what? That only made the skeptical intransigent. Good job. Flex harder, you'll get more pushback.

Or, you can explain, state the actual facts, and let people do the right thing. You know, the American way, not the Chinese authoritarian pinko commie way.

It's ignorant or narcissistic to think religion will make things better for you - how many of the people who have died were Christian? I bet it's a huge chunk of them.

Is it ignorant or narcissitic to spend YOUR time worrying about others religious motivations? Probably both. Which is cute, because this covid authoritarianism has become the default religion for the anti-religion zealots on the left; they've so whole-heartedly adopted the stance of that which they spent 4+ years railing over, and are actually doing everything they said Trump would do.

 

[Kronic]

No. '7x more likely' is NOT '7x as many'. Vaxxed are more likely to have covid than previously infected.

There could be several reasons for this:

1) Delta evades vaccines

2) Vaxxed people increase risky behaviors (ie attending an indoor crowded event 'because I'm vaxxed and therefore safe')

3) Waning vaccine effectiveness vs non-waning natural immunity

have you ever heard about how HPV can ruin people's immune system because it causes people's bodies to focus on making one kind of antibody?

well what if the vaccine keeps forcing your body to produce these instructed antibodies that don't work as well with the latest variants. it could suppress your natural function I'd think

 

[Ricky10]

Hang on, let's be clear about something. No one has any idea what risk the vaccine has. They've been out 6 months. Period.

Unfortunately we don’t know to any degree of certainty how virulent the China virus could potentially get, the long term impacts of prior COVID infections, or long term sides from the vaccine. So in many ways it’s a wash on that level.

All we know right now is that there are too many delusional people who have opted to not get the vaccine that are clearly high risk, and they do in fact account for an overwhelming majority of hospital admissions. People with prior COVID infections are certainly not a problem at this point.

If I were in a high risk demographic, I would much rather roll my dice with a now FDA approved vaccine and be skeptical of long term sides than risk a devastating hospital admission for potentially up to 2 months, and/or be dead. It seems rather silly for high risk patients to question potential sides when we already know COVID can cause severe illness and death. Obviously there are many patients who don’t think as I do.

So do we wish the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were proving to be more bulletproot? Of course we do, but they are still better than nothing at this stage in the game for many Americans who are not the epitomy of good health.

 

[poison]

have you ever heard about how HPV can ruin people's immune system because it causes people's bodies to focus on making one kind of antibody?

well what if the vaccine keeps forcing your body to produce these instructed antibodies that don't work as well with the latest variants. it could suppress your natural function I'd think

Could be. There's also the issue of the vaccine antibodies only recognizing a very small portion of the sarscov2 spike, making recognition less broad. For example, natural immunity creates immunity to the whole virus, not just one small portion. And so, it's more likely a future variant will be missing the portion the vaccine stimulated antibodies recognize, whereas it's far less likely a future variant could contain NONE of the current spike.

 

[Dustin07]

Is it ignorant or narcissitic to spend YOUR time worrying about others religious motivations? Probably both. Which is cute, because this covid authoritarianism has become the default religion for the anti-religion zealots on the left; they've so whole-heartedly adopted the stance of that which they spent 4+ years railing over, and are actually doing everything they said Trump would do.

Unfortunately, a large percentage of people worldwide are quite fearful. Those that don't believe are more desperate to control the world around them, not seeing much hope in an afterlife or the omnipotent to be in control of the present. The fear presents itself as hatred, often with name calling, violence, etc. As my mom and my wife have both said hundreds of times "hurting people, hurt people".

My wife and I have contemplated turning off all media for a couple months as winter approaches to keep our minds clear of the negativity, everyone is susceptible to it. I think between Nov-Feb we had Pho at least once a week on average (home remedy) thinking maybe we had the 'rona (HAHA) then we actually did get it around end of March, lol.

But as we go into this winter season I think those people living ignorant of this 'rona **** are going to be healthier. the people who fear it get sicker. the mind is incredibly powerful when it comes to our health.

 

[Dustin07]

If I were in a high risk demographic, I would much rather roll my dice with a now FDA approved vaccine and be skeptical of long term sides than risk a devastating hospital admission for potentially up to 2 months, and/or be dead. It seems rather silly for high risk patients to question potential sides when we already know COVID can cause severe illness and death. Obviously there are many patients who don’t think as I do.

I agree with that. if the data suggests that covid will kill my relatives who are over 70 and the data suggests the vaccine is safer, the odds are they should get the vax. Where I have an issue is for them to tell me at 38, sub 10% BF and 6 minute miler that I need it when clearly, I do not.

 

[Kronic]

Unfortunately we don’t know to any degree of certainty how virulent the China virus could potentially get, the long term impacts of prior COVID infections, or long term sides from the vaccine. So in many ways it’s a wash on that level.

All we know right now is that there are too many delusional people who have opted to not get the vaccine that are clearly high risk, and they do in fact account for an overwhelming majority of hospital admissions. People with prior COVID infections are certainly not a problem at this point.

If I were in a high risk demographic, I would much rather roll my dice with a now FDA approved vaccine and be skeptical of long term sides than risk a devastating hospital admission for potentially up to 2 months, and/or be dead. It seems rather silly for high risk patients to question potential sides when we already know COVID can cause severe illness and death. Obviously there are many patients who don’t think as I do.

So do we wish the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were proving to be more bulletproot? Of course we do, but they are still better than nothing at this stage in the game for many Americans who are not the epitomy of good health.

just because you don't know of something better doesn't make it a good choice. a lot of people have been doing monoclonal antibodies for example. unfortunately I think big pharma fooled Trump into project warp speed. it was a good idea but the vaccines are not good.

why do you think NAC was pulled from Amazon? people found it to help with covid. if we could stop playing fantasy flu shot then people might actually realize they need to do something more about getting healthy and find some real solutions. thymosin alpha 1 anyone?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Unfortunately we don’t know to any degree of certainty how virulent the China virus could potentially get, the long term impacts of prior COVID infections, or long term sides from the vaccine. So in many ways it’s a wash on that level.

All we know right now is that there are too many delusional people who have opted to not get the vaccine that are clearly high risk, and they do in fact account for an overwhelming majority of hospital admissions. People with prior COVID infections are certainly not a problem at this point.

If I were in a high risk demographic, I would much rather roll my dice with a now FDA approved vaccine and be skeptical of long term sides than risk a devastating hospital admission for potentially up to 2 months, and/or be dead. It seems rather silly for high risk patients to question potential sides when we already know COVID can cause severe illness and death. Obviously there are many patients who don’t think as I do.

So do we wish the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were proving to be more bulletproot? Of course we do, but they are still better than nothing at this stage in the game for many Americans who are not the epitomy of good health.

My point is it's a personal choice and if I were a senior or high risk individual, I'd likely get it. But, I'm pretty healthy, great nutritional blood levels (how many deaths or severe covid-19 in those with 25-Hydroxy Vitamin D levels above 50?), etc. So, I'll continue to do the things that make me healthier than 90% of the population that we should all be preaching, instead of "obese and type 2 diabetics are high risk, so GET THE VACCINE!" Why isn't it "obese and type 2 are high risk, lose weight and consider the vaccine!" The unhealthy are still unhealthy.

 

[Ricky10]

just because you don't know of something better doesn't make it a good choice. a lot of people have been doing monoclonal antibodies for example. unfortunately I think big pharma fooled Trump into project warp speed. it was a good idea but the vaccines are not good.

why do you think NAC was pulled from Amazon? people found it to help with covid. if we could stop playing fantasy flu shot then people might actually realize they need to do something more about getting healthy and find some real solutions. thymosin alpha 1 anyone?

My point is it's a personal choice and if I were a senior or high risk individual, I'd likely get it. But, I'm pretty healthy, great nutritional blood levels (how many deaths or severe covid-19 in those with 25-Hydroxy Vitamin D levels above 50?), etc. So, I'll continue to do the things that make me healthier than 90% of the population that we should all be preaching, instead of "obese and type 2 diabetics are high risk, so GET THE VACCINE!" Why isn't it "obese and type 2 are high risk, lose weight and consider the vaccine!" The unhealthy are still unhealthy.

Yeah, monoclonal antibodies have certainly been one of the better treatments to come along..

I appreciate the enthusiasm for those we know with chronic health conditions like obesity and diabetes. And while it’s a wonderful idea for these people to improve their health, we know that is much easier said than done.

 

[THOR 70]

have you ever heard about how HPV can ruin people's immune system because it causes people's bodies to focus on making one kind of antibody?

well what if the vaccine keeps forcing your body to produce these instructed antibodies that don't work as well with the latest variants. it could suppress your natural function I'd think

I believe you’re describing a concern that some immunologist/virologists have voiced called antibody dependent enhancement?

FDA Admits Covid-19 Vaccine Worse Than Illness - Rodef Shalom 613

Example of antibody dependent enhancement of dengue virus1 also seen with coronavirus vaccines. Notice that the antibodies actually draw the virus into the cells, where they multiply, rather than destroying it. A serious risk of coronavirus vaccines A potentially fatal risk of coronavirus...

www.rodefshalom613.org

 

[Kronic]

I believe you’re describing a concern that some immunologist/virologists have voiced called antibody dependent enhancement?

FDA Admits Covid-19 Vaccine Worse Than Illness - Rodef Shalom 613

Example of antibody dependent enhancement of dengue virus1 also seen with coronavirus vaccines. Notice that the antibodies actually draw the virus into the cells, where they multiply, rather than destroying it. A serious risk of coronavirus vaccines A potentially fatal risk of coronavirus...

www.rodefshalom613.org

I don't really understand ADE but Dr Rhonda Patric said most of the covid MRNA vaccines are not supposed to be succeptable to this. I heard the Astra zenicka (India) one is. I guess there was some other vaccine (not covid ones) that was tested and killed a bunch of people and they learned from it