Why Such High Doses Of Test With TRT?

SelfMedic said:
I know a lot of men on this site may not see any benefit to more frequent pinning, but it makes a lot sense to me to pin EOD as a compromise between ED and E3.5D or E3D. This is because even ED at 10 is still a bit of a spike and EOD is twice that spike. Once a week obviously works just fine for some people, but I've just noticed the sentiment going toward more frequency. The science says the getting away from spikes and closer to lower, more frequent dosing ( up to 10 mg spread out over 24 hours being the most optimal) is better than a 70mg-spike (of actual test minus cypionate ester mass) that then dwindles over seven days.

The estradiol problems, the aromitization problems all seem to diminish when the spikes are smoothed out to resemble natural production. 70 mg (of actual test, minus the cyp ester weight) divided into EOD seem to do a lot more with lower sides than 70 mg EW.

So when I see guys saying they need 200 mg of test-c per week, I wonder if they would get better results if they just did 15 mg of test-c per day (10 mg of actual test). More with less. Yes, that's a hard pinning schedule. But it's worth thinking about.
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I have been reading more and more about more frequent injections becoming the norm protocol. I understand the spikes are reduced and it helps alleviate lot of issues. I have been searching exhaustively to see if anyone has data to suggest it reduces the issue with spiking hematocrit.

I used injectable @ 100 mg once week for about 5 years. Donating blood once a month kept hematocrit manageable. I got to a point however where it was no longer manageable. I had to have phelbotomies for weeks to get it back down. With a year off I went back on and within a month back to the same issue and it again took multi phlebotomies.

I am currently on topical but its just not getting me anywhere near decent ranges. I think perhaps more frequent injections may be a protocol that could work for me. Thoughts?
 
jcam222 said:
I have been reading more and more about more frequent injections becoming the norm protocol. I understand the spikes are reduced and it helps alleviate lot of issues. I have been searching exhaustively to see if anyone has data to suggest it reduces the issue with spiking hematocrit.

I used injectable @ 100 mg once week for about 5 years. Donating blood once a month kept hematocrit manageable. I got to a point however where it was no longer manageable. I had to have phelbotomies for weeks to get it back down. With a year off I went back on and within a month back to the same issue and it again took multi phlebotomies.

I am currently on topical but its just not getting me anywhere near decent ranges. I think perhaps more frequent injections may be a protocol that could work for me. Thoughts?
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Possibly a combination of both in lower doses will work better. Some also inject very small amounts daily, ie 15-20mgs to help the issues with spiking androgens.
 
my pharmacy was out of 18s to draw and only had 16s. I was worried about breaking the vials with those damn things :D
 
speaking of breaking vials, why the hell is it so hard to work out the prescription so that the pharmacy can give you a single 10ml vial for 3 months? goddamn well they'll do anything they can to give me 4 1mls a month (at one point they were giving me 3, as dosage was .6ml / wk)
 
A general FYI: I've found a really good place to find needles and syringes and there's prolly one near you:
Tractor Supply!

They usually don't have anything smaller than a 22, but I get my 18's there by the box.
 
EasyEJL said:
speaking of breaking vials, why the hell is it so hard to work out the prescription so that the pharmacy can give you a single 10ml vial for 3 months? goddamn well they'll do anything they can to give me 4 1mls a month (at one point they were giving me 3, as dosage was .6ml / wk)
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Pharmacist explained that Testosterone is a "controlled substance". By law, they can't issue more than what your month's worth by script. So, if your doctor scripts 1 ml per week then they only issue 4 ml.
 
but they can fill a 90 prescription, I've done that by mail before, which would be perfect as a single 10ml vial. it's just irritating to have the little bottles around, plus knowing my insurance is paying a premium for that
 
napalm said:
A general FYI: I've found a really good place to find needles and syringes and there's prolly one near you:
Tractor Supply!

They usually don't have anything smaller than a 22, but I get my 18's there by the box.
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I order all mine online and get them in 2 days. Got a couple places I use. Not sure if I can post them up? They sell all I need, all sizes from 18-25 and my 30's too. Also empty vials, filters, etc.
 
kenpoengineer said:
Pharmacist explained that Testosterone is a "controlled substance". By law, they can't issue more than what your month's worth by script. So, if your doctor scripts 1 ml per week then they only issue 4 ml.
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Not true, my pharmacy just gives me a whole 10 ml bottle a month.
 
kenpoengineer said:
Pharmacist explained that Testosterone is a "controlled substance". By law, they can't issue more than what your month's worth by script. So, if your doctor scripts 1 ml per week then they only issue 4 ml.
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This is the exact explanation that was given to me at Walgreens, Rite Aid, and Costco. I said F it and now I just get it straight from my doc in a nice "old school" 10ml bottle.
 
kisaj said:
This is the exact explanation that was given to me at Walgreens, Rite Aid, and Costco. I said F it and now I just get it straight from my doc in a nice "old school" 10ml bottle.
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I wonder if this is a state law? It's a pain for sure. The pharmacist does know me by first name though! Lol
 
sammpedd88 said:
I get mine in a 10ml from a local pharmacy. That's why I've been afraid to switch pharmacies. I pay a $15 copay also.
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Frys pharmacy here use to do that also they don't carry 1ml vials so they use to issue me a 10ml vial. My insurance changed policies though so any long term maintenence meds I'm required to get through express scripts... they carry 1ml vials... *******s...
 
I have had good success (high free T, high TT) pinning with 27g-30g 1/2 inch in the deltoids, quads, and fat pads above glutes. Pulling the oil takes 5 minutes though. You can always pull with an 18g and put a smaller needle on but you'll waste a little man oil.
 
EasyEJL said:
but they can fill a 90 prescription, I've done that by mail before, which would be perfect as a single 10ml vial. it's just irritating to have the little bottles around, plus knowing my insurance is paying a premium for that
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I also get mail order prescription for roughly a 90 day supply, but mine is 3 5 mL vials. According to the label, the vial should be discarded 28 days after first use, regardless of whether the contents have been used up, because some preservative agent is no longer effective after that time.
 
EasyEJL said:
speaking of breaking vials, why the hell is it so hard to work out the prescription so that the pharmacy can give you a single 10ml vial for 3 months? goddamn well they'll do anything they can to give me 4 1mls a month (at one point they were giving me 3, as dosage was .6ml / wk)
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Agreed! If they give me the 1ml vials I have to pay a copay each month, if they give me the 10ml I only pay it once every ten weeks.
I argued with the pharmacist about this and he tries to tell me the 1ml vials were cheaper, lol. I said "for who?"
Called my Endo's office and the nurse told me it was illegal for them not to fill the script as written. I explained this the the pharmacist politely and after no response and a dirty look they followed through as instructed, lol
 
BlockBuilder said:
Because anti aging clinics are legal drug dealers and shady AF nothing more nothing less
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Nothing short of an overblown and inacurate assertion....generalization much, i think so
 
kisaj said:
The only thing inaccurate about that post was not adding, IMO. But pretty spot on.
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The IMO can not save you this time :-p

iv you want to find shadier facilities you will find them, if you want to find trustworthy facilities the work within the context of the law you'll find them....IMO
 
That_TRT_Guy said:
The IMO can not save you this time :-p

iv you want to find shadier facilities you will find them, if you want to find trustworthy facilities the work within the context of the law you'll find them....IMO
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**** the law, we are talking about our health. Let me guess, you are the receptionist at a clinic and worried about your drug dealers that found their money making loophole.
 
Did I hit a sensitive button? i had no intention to offend.

I am in no way affiliated with any clinics except for the one that which i am a patient at.
one that and has several well-known and respected doctors whom truly are looking out for patients well-being, all I'm saying is that if you are looking out for your health you can find a more reputable clinic will help you with that to the extent of the law but pushing beyond what FDA (federal dumb asses) certified facility alows i.e Tufts Medical Boston will not prescribe drugs for off label uses....like aromasin which is a breast cancer drug also used to control estrogen

If you're looking out for your health but also are looking for a place that will sell you things like I don't know Anadrol you will be able to find those, it is largely yours, the client, the patients, decision at where you going to put your efforts allocate your resources and what choose what facility to work with as most likely no one is forcing you to choose a location

So like I said in my previous statement ... if you want to find shadier facilities you will find them if you want to find trustworthy facilities that work within the context of the law you'll find them.

I'm not providing moral consequence or opposition to either option I think either are perfectly acceptable because we are dealing with a health issue and it's a personal choice that being said I just choose work with a trusted facility with respectable doctors while working within the context of the law
 
I'm just giving you a hard time because you are in a forum of people that have been on for a long time and know all too well about clinic's practices. If you found the rare exception, then that is wonderful for you, but it is only that- an exception.
 
kisaj said:
I'm just giving you a hard time because you are in a forum of people that have been on for a long time and know all too well about clinic's practices. If you found the rare exception, then that is wonderful for you, but it is only that- an exception.
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Totally fair, luckily for us it seems that there are a growing number of 'exceptions'...at least until th GOV finds out that people are living happy healthy lives then they are sure to step in....
 
I don't kisaj my pcp prescribed me my trt started off at 1/2 e2w didn't help went weekly but the constant Rollercoaster of hormones sucked and 100mg weekly only put me at 313. So he pushed me to 200mg 1/2cc 2x a week and I sit in the high 900s. Is he shady? Not in the least he's a family Medicine Doctor who has won many awards and medical recognition nationally and in the state of Az. 200mg may be high to some but it keeps me in a clear mental focus mind state. It's not for the "on" feeling. Your test level controls so much more in your life than just muscle mass. I do agree with trt guy though because I've seen guys at metroflex here flashing their scripts from their "anti aging clinic" for deca/eq/Stano... more power to them I mean they can get it anywhere and not worry about possession but yea there are some places that don't care and just write what the patients want because that's how they make their $$$.
 
I don't follow how your experience has anything to do with what we are talking about, but if you found a great protocol for you then that's all that matters.
 
Because he said originally 200mg is a high dose. And you're complaining they are all legal drug dealers. I disagree with both of you. But at a point I agree some doses act as shady drug dealers but you do have to dig for them to find them.
 
SonnyAz said:
Because he said originally 200mg is a high dose. And you're complaining they are all legal drug dealers. I disagree with both of you. But at a point I agree some doses act as shady drug dealers but you do have to dig for them to find them.
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200mg is a high dose, regardless of whether it is what works for you. I still don't understand your point of needing a high dose and how it correlates to anti-aging clinics loading up patients on test, hcg, vitB, etc without really knowing if it is needed and generally without proper consultation and testing. Getting on TRT should not be a matter of walking into a clinic taking a testosterone lab and then getting hooked up.
 
So @ 200mg and still landing in the normal zone is high? I don't get how you can justify that claim.
If the lab justifies the need of anything that's what most places would treat. Docs always treat symptoms not all will look into underlying causes... also try and named 1 doctor that does preventative medicine. But who is it on more the clinic or the patient for requesting more?
I use to work as a pharmacy tech and my pharmacy use to hand out syringes to junkies with most likely the same thought as these "shady" clinics, they are going to get what they are asking for one way or another why not make sure they are getting it legitimately and being monitored?
 
Yes, 200mg is a high weekly dose when we are talking about hormone therapy and just because that is what it takes you to land in the "normal" area and address your symptoms doesn't change that.

The problem in your comment about doctors treating what labs justify is exactly why there needs to be more education and people need to stop going to PCP or clinics to truly know what is happening. It's much easier to just throw medicine at something than try to figure out what is wrong, but it is also a good way to fail and be on something you may not even need. As far as preventative medicine, I don't know where you are at, but it is very common. Don't get sucked into the misguided belief that you need to take what you are given- demand more and better treatment.
 
Ok my labs said everything was in the norm except my t was low extremely low. No underlying symptoms I know the cause of my low t. 200mg is my needed dose it is not high for me. All medication is dose according to the patients needs. I'm guessing you got denied trt and your e2 is high from your behavior I'm signing out of this conversation I'm done trying to get you to justify your words when all you do is complain with no backing or understanding.

Take care.
 
EasyEJL said:
speaking of breaking vials, why the hell is it so hard to work out the prescription so that the pharmacy can give you a single 10ml vial for 3 months? goddamn well they'll do anything they can to give me 4 1mls a month (at one point they were giving me 3, as dosage was .6ml / wk)
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The same thing happened to me, so my doctor switched to using a compound pharmacy. Now I'm back to getting my 10ml vials.
 
SonnyAz said:
Ok my labs said everything was in the norm except my t was low extremely low. No underlying symptoms I know the cause of my low t. 200mg is my needed dose it is not high for me.
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This makes no sense to me, unless I'm missing something. If you had no underlying symptoms, why are you on trt?
 
That_TRT_Guy said:
Nothing short of an overblown and inacurate assertion....generalization much, i think so
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Guess you haven't been to Florida. They are getting raided constantly down here. I've talked to guys who have paid for falsified blood tests from places here. If these clinics aren't shady why are they offering clients Anavar, Winstrol Depot, Nandrolone Phenyl Proprionate, sermorelin and more? I'm sorry but how do these other anabolic steroids treat low testosterone? This was sent to me by a company endorsed by the LA Fitnesses in South Florida. ?Invalid Link Removed
 
I was part of one of those Florida clinics before as a patient. They offered deca to help with bad joints. I believe they'd prescribe 200mg/week.
 
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