Which oral to kickstart upcoming test e cycle

Whisky

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What does a mince pie equate to in America? Is it like a pie crust filled with meat and a sauce or something? Like a chicken pot pie???

Cuz I do like myself some chicken pot pie
it’s a sweet shortcrust pastry with dried fruit and spices. Ironically has no meat at all bro. Really traditional English thing

but I’d also do some chicken pot pie 👍
 
Smont

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Also, kinda on the subjects of diuretics, a cool tip I picked up from Dante Trudel’s IG was Horse Chestnut extract for leg circulation.

Many folks won’t need it, but if you get edema/foot+ankle swelling (like I do when on test), a morning and evening cap of horse chestnut will make a serious difference. Used it the last 2 runs and I can tell if I don’t use it.

Some folks can be allergic to it, but it’s pretty cheap to try. Nature’s Way and Swanson make good ones.
Another cheap alternative is dandelion root
 
Hyde

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Another cheap alternative is dandelion root
That is what I would use for whole body water retention - we use it during a watercut to make weight or if trying to have your best pool/beach body for a day or two - the horse chestnut I would use specifically to leg circulation.
 
Smont

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That is what I would use for whole body water retention - we use it during a watercut to make weight or if trying to have your best pool/beach body for a day or two - the horse chestnut I would use specifically to leg circulation.
It's a surprisingly powerful for a natural supplement
 
Smont

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How much to take? And how long does it take to work
I've followed the label and double dosed it.
500mg 3x day and 1000mg 3day

I've seen other products say 1500mg 3x day so I dont know what the upper limit is. At 3000mg a day it was noticable in like 2 days. I was pissing like crazy the morning of day 2.

A never used it longer then 10-14 days at a time so I have no clue about long term effects
 
Smont

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I paid less then $10 for 100 x 500mg capsules, you can also get it in teas and tinctures
 
ndiguy

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After the recommendation ITT, I’ve decided I’ll be running SD as a finisher. Plan is 20mg for 3 weeks.

I acquired a couple bottles of LGI SD-10 second hand not too long ago, hoping you guys that have experience with this brand can chime in.. anyone aware if they came with a plastic seal under the cap? Opened one of the bottles this evening, it had the typical plastic wrap on the cap itself, just not the one sometimes found underneath.

thanks in advance!
 
Smont

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After the recommendation ITT, I’ve decided I’ll be running SD as a finisher. Plan is 20mg for 3 weeks.

I acquired a couple bottles of LGI SD-10 second hand not too long ago, hoping you guys that have experience with this brand can chime in.. anyone aware if they came with a plastic seal under the cap? Opened one of the bottles this evening, it had the typical plastic wrap on the cap itself, just not the one sometimes found underneath.

thanks in advance!
To me that sounds like someone used it, put something else in the bottle and resealed the lid. Every bottle of any supplement or pill I've ever bought had that other seal under the cap.
 
ndiguy

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Hopefully I'm wrong here and that's just how those use to come
Yeah, I’m really not sure. during the time that LGI was pumping out hormonals, my stockpile mostly consisted of CEL. Hopefully some prior users of LGI product stop in with some good news lol... worst case I can run M1A from Premier or Msten from Viscious instead, but was excited to experience SD for the first time
 
Smont

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Yeah, I’m really not sure. during the time that LGI was pumping out hormonals, my stockpile mostly consisted of CEL. Hopefully some prior users of LGI product stop in with some good news lol... worst case I can run M1A from Premier or Msten from Viscious instead, but was excited to experience SD for the first time
Might be a better idea going with the msten, once you take sd, or tren, pretty much every other steroid is meh, it's ok. Lol
 
ndiguy

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I misspoke. Turns out there was an inner seal, it was just stuck under the cap. Opened the other bottle as well, same thing.
 
ndiguy

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LGI is the gold standard. Never had bad quality from them.
I got the bottles from another member here, real stand up guy, so I’m sure they’re good to go. I just wasn’t used to seeing product like this without an inner seal that had to be peeled off. I suppose after 8 years, it’s very possibly that the adhesive that holds the seal down became weak and it just stuck to the inside of the cap.
 

bigdadybry

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Horse chestnut sounds like a phrase I would find on Urban Dictionary, like Angry Pirate or Double Dutch Rudder. :)
 
ndiguy

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Well, did my first ever injection last night. Opted for the quad and the process went extremely smooth! Barely felt it and leg feels just fine today. I was a little surprised how long it took to get all the oil out of the syringe, but I'm sure part of it is due to using a 25 to poke. I held the vial in my hand for a few minutes to warm it up a bit prior to, whether that was beneficial or not, I'm unsure.

Anyway, couldn't have asked for a better first experience. Will be on test for a minimum of 10 weeks. Will be utilizing SD for a few weeks as a finisher, as well. Here we go!
 
Smont

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Well, did my first ever injection last night. Opted for the quad and the process went extremely smooth! Barely felt it and leg feels just fine today. I was a little surprised how long it took to get all the oil out of the syringe, but I'm sure part of it is due to using a 25 to poke. I held the vial in my hand for a few minutes to warm it up a bit prior to, whether that was beneficial or not, I'm unsure.

Anyway, couldn't have asked for a better first experience. Will be on test for a minimum of 10 weeks. Will be utilizing SD for a few weeks as a finisher, as well. Here we go!
U got some balls my friend, quads can be very painful if you hit the wrong spot. Glutes are much more forgiving. But either way, the scariest part is over. Keep us posted
 
ndiguy

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U got some balls my friend, quads can be very painful if you hit the wrong spot. Glutes are much more forgiving. But either way, the scariest part is over. Keep us posted
Will do, man. I'll give the glute a try on Monday. I took a lot of shots in the ass while enlisted (no homo lol), so that should be a breeze (y)
 
ndiguy

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Did my second injection last night. Glute is a little tight this morning, but overall feels good

I didn't initially try the glute. My first quad injection went so smoothly (minus some soreness for a few days following, which I'm assuming is pretty normal) so I tried my left quad. I got the needle most of the way in and it was pretty damn uncomfortable, so I pulled out and did the glute instead.

Which brings me to my question... When you have a "bad" poke, do you swap out the needle before injecting again? I did, just to be on the safe side, but wasn't sure if that's necessary.
 
Smont

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Did my second injection last night. Glute is a little tight this morning, but overall feels good

I didn't initially try the glute. My first quad injection went so smoothly (minus some soreness for a few days following, which I'm assuming is pretty normal) so I tried my left quad. I got the needle most of the way in and it was pretty damn uncomfortable, so I pulled out and did the glute instead.

Which brings me to my question... When you have a "bad" poke, do you swap out the needle before injecting again? I did, just to be on the safe side, but wasn't sure if that's necessary.
If you wanna do everything as "correct" as possible, draw with a needle, swap and inject. If a poke dosen't go smooth, swap to a new needle again. But.... I dont really do that any more. Lots of times I draw and inject with the same pin and if a hesitate and have to pull the pin out, I usually just stick it in another spot. It's not the proper way but I never had a problem yet and I've been doing it this way for the past year or so. As long as all my stuff is sterile I'm not super concerned with the pin being slightly dulled. Now if I was running more then one injectable. I'd draw from the 2 or 3 vials and definitely would swap pins out.
 
Smont

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Did my second injection last night. Glute is a little tight this morning, but overall feels good

I didn't initially try the glute. My first quad injection went so smoothly (minus some soreness for a few days following, which I'm assuming is pretty normal) so I tried my left quad. I got the needle most of the way in and it was pretty damn uncomfortable, so I pulled out and did the glute instead.

Which brings me to my question... When you have a "bad" poke, do you swap out the needle before injecting again? I did, just to be on the safe side, but wasn't sure if that's necessary.
I'd say about 95% of the time I have zero pip or soreness at all after injecting glutes, occasionally I have a pin that leaves a little knot or is sore for a few days but it's very rare. Delts hurt like a bastard the first 4-5 times I pinned them and they got use to it and same thing. Usually no pip after that. I've currently been on 150mg only so I just have been drawing and injecting with a slinpin in the delt.
 
ndiguy

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@Smont

Thanks for the insight!

I'm only two injections in & have experienced some pip/soreness both times. I'm sure there are some variables to consider; quality of gear, pinning technique, etc. I'm sure after some more experimentation with injection sites I'll get a nice system down.
 
Smont

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@Smont

Thanks for the insight!

I'm only two injections in & have experienced some pip/soreness both times. I'm sure there are some variables to consider; quality of gear, pinning technique, etc. I'm sure after some more experimentation with injection sites I'll get a nice system down.
Virgin muscle tissue, it's normal. You will get use to it very quickly. By the 3rd or 4th pin in the same muscle you will barely notice it anymore
 
BCseacow83

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I’m going to suggest a different approach. Don’t kickstart with an oral, finish with an oral like superdrol. If this is your first Test cycle you will respond really well, when the gains start to stall at the end, start using the superdrol to bust through the plateau. Plus if it’s at the end of the cycle, it’s not as big of a concern if you kill your appetite And energy, cycle will be ending. That’s what I would do in hindsight of my first cycle.
Not to mention fewer weeks with potential single-digit HDL. Test is not terrible when it comes to lipids(reasonable dosage assumed) but I highly doubt one's HDL that is rock bottom due to the oral is going to recover while still on a cycle for another 8 weeks.
 
ndiguy

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Two days from now will make 2 weeks on Test, haven't noticed much yet.

I will say that at this juncture, I prefer quad injection over glutes. It's a much easier (or less awkward, I should say) location to access. Some tightness in the area for a couple days after, but plenty manageable. I think I'll continue to utilize the quads until I inevitably hit something unpleasant haha
 
Smont

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Two days from now will make 2 weeks on Test, haven't noticed much yet.

I will say that at this juncture, I prefer quad injection over glutes. It's a much easier (or less awkward, I should say) location to access. Some tightness in the area for a couple days after, but plenty manageable. I think I'll continue to utilize the quads until I inevitably hit something unpleasant haha
If I remember correctly, my first test cycle I was like 5 weeks in and didn't really notice anything, or at least I thought I didn't. Then around 8-10 weeks in I noticed one day that I looked a little bigger and more vascular. Looked in my log book and lo and behold I was up like 15lbs in bodyweight and my lifts were all up 20-50lbs. Then started comparing pictures and it was night and day. It was just so slow and steady that i never noticed it happening. Also I will throw out there that you have used a few prohormone that are stronger then testosterone so in a sense your taking a step backwards on the strength of a cycle, but you still have the ability to continue to gain over a period of months which you dont with orals. Orals are instant short term gratification, mostly water and glycogen stores filling up. Building actual muscle tissue takes a lot longer do just ride it out.
 
ndiguy

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@Smont

I really appreciate you contributing when I bump the thread with updates (y)

Purely out of curiosity, I stepped on the scale this morning. I must be holding onto some water. Two weeks ago, when the cycle started, I was 213. Sitting at 220, currently.

I will say, which I forgot to mention previously, libido may be increasing. Been "harassing" the ol' lady a bit more than usual.. lol.
 
Smont

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@Smont

I really appreciate you contributing when I bump the thread with updates (y)

Purely out of curiosity, I stepped on the scale this morning. I must be holding onto some water. Two weeks ago, when the cycle started, I was 213. Sitting at 220, currently.

I will say, which I forgot to mention previously, libido may be increasing. Been "harassing" the ol' lady a bit more than usual.. lol.
I love this stuff. I'm not as into it as I was 6-10 years ago but I like to share what experiences I have. Every cycle is a experiment and learning experience in my eyes so your teaching me stuff by learning how other people react to things other then myself. I'm also doing my own experiment right now trying to reduce testosterone to as low as possible without loosing any weight or strength, down to 100mg test 1x week and holding strong at 198lbs and set a pr on seated shoulder press this week
 

saderboy80

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@Codybenz and @Smont

Good info guys, I really appreciate the insight. The idea behind finishing with an oral makes perfect sense.
What do you think about using an oral to kickstart, 4 weeks off orals, and finish with another 4week oral?

That’s what I’m doing for my cycle.
 
Smont

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What do you think about using an oral to kickstart, 4 weeks off orals, and finish with another 4week oral?

That’s what I’m doing for my cycle.
I think its personal preference, if you asked me this years ago or even a year ago I would think more gains, now I think it would give me a initial boost in strength and kick it up again at the end but at the same time I dont think it would make enough a difference on overall gains and I'd probably just use a higher dose of injectable instead. I was talking to a guy today that runs way too many orals but he also looked pretty damn good and pretty big as well. Hes been using 500mg of test and rotating through orals the past 16 weeks! 4 weeks dbol, 4 weeks tbol, 4 weeks yk11, 4 weeks anadrol now and bout to go 4 weeks anavar and end his cycle. 😱
 
Smont

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I think its personal preference, if you asked me this years ago or even a year ago I would think more gains, now I think it would give me a initial boost in strength and kick it up again at the end but at the same time I dont think it would make enough a difference on overall gains and I'd probably just use a higher dose of injectable instead. I was talking to a guy today that runs way too many orals but he also looked pretty damn good and pretty big as well. Hes been using 500mg of test and rotating through orals the past 16 weeks! 4 weeks dbol, 4 weeks tbol, 4 weeks yk11, 4 weeks anadrol now and bout to go 4 weeks anavar and end his cycle. 😱
I'm not suggesting that lol, just saying personal preference
 

saderboy80

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I think its personal preference, if you asked me this years ago or even a year ago I would think more gains, now I think it would give me a initial boost in strength and kick it up again at the end but at the same time I dont think it would make enough a difference on overall gains and I'd probably just use a higher dose of injectable instead. I was talking to a guy today that runs way too many orals but he also looked pretty damn good and pretty big as well. Hes been using 500mg of test and rotating through orals the past 16 weeks! 4 weeks dbol, 4 weeks tbol, 4 weeks yk11, 4 weeks anadrol now and bout to go 4 weeks anavar and end his cycle.

Yeah that’s a lot of orals haha. As of now I’m only running test. Would it be better to add an injectable instead of an oral.
What are the benefits and side effects?
 
Hyde

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Yeah that’s a lot of orals haha. As of now I’m only running test. Would it be better to add an injectable instead of an oral.
What are the benefits and side effects?
So what @Smont mentioned is absolutely doable for some. I have more or less done this a bunch. But what I have gotten into is even being able to reinforce my liver with TUDCA, NAC, lots of water, Milk Thistle after cycle to help, I can’t get away from the fact that orals trash my lipid profile, which means all the time I am on them and for a long time thereafter I am promoting atherosclerosis. Even if my body can take it now, what kind of permanent damage am I doing to my longevity down the road?

By the time my lipids are barely recovered, it’s time to start another blast, and beginning with an oral means lipids tank right away and stay bad all cycle. So they are trashed almost year round by running 2 ~12wk blasts every year that use orals up front.

I think you can probably do this for a couple years to get your initial base built up faster, but it’s a recipe for a stroke/heart attack in your 40s - it is NOT a sustainable practice. Tren also can be in the same camp as orals as far as how it effects bloodwork - this is why bloodwork is so important off and on cycle. About 4 times a year honestly; some guys really pushing or careful will do 6-12x a year. At least a CBC, CMP & Lipids (gives values for blood, organs, cholesterol).

SO yes an injectable would be healthier probably (excluding tren), but they have their own negatives and still depend on your personal response - the only way to know how things effect you is to take it without introducing other variables at the same time and draw bloods after a period of use.
 
Smont

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I was talking to the same guy again today and apparently the neverending oral cycle is a Boston lloyd thing. Something strong to start, something more mild like tbol or anavar next to lighten up the load on the liver then back to something stronger and repeat, this guy just threw in the yk11 in the middle because he had some kicking around
 
Smont

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Back to op, what's your training style and diet look like right now, other supplements ect, just curious.
 
ndiguy

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Back to op, what's your training style and diet look like right now, other supplements ect, just curious.
How am I just now seeing this?! My bad, man.
I lift 4 days a week. Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Bro-split.

Chest/Bi's
Back/Tri's/Abs
Legs/Calves
Shoulders/Traps/Abs

I generally stay in the hypertrophy rep range. These days, I prefer training with more volume while really focusing on good form.. Though I occasionally go heavy (2-3 rep range) with compound lifts, just to gauge where I'm at. Once I left my ego at the door and dropped the weight a bit, I really started to notice a difference in isolating the particular muscle group that I was trying to target.

Diet isn't perfect, but as long as I'm around 3000 calories daily and hitting my protein goal I'm happy. If I had to guess, I'm around 15% BF. Will look to drop calories and pick up the cardio next spring. Right now, I'm just looking to add size for this inevitably cold North Dakota winter haha.

Supplement wise, I'm currently utilizing Super Swole for my pre, with a 200mg caffeine capsule. I use Intra Blast and Super Carb by Nutrabio during my workout. I throw in 5g of creatine mono in there daily, as well.

Any more questions, feel free to ask! I'm an open book (y)
 
Hyde

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How am I just now seeing this?! My bad, man.
I lift 4 days a week. Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Bro-split.

Chest/Bi's
Back/Tri's/Abs
Legs/Calves
Shoulders/Traps/Abs

I generally stay in the hypertrophy rep range. These days, I prefer training with more volume while really focusing on good form.. Though I occasionally go heavy (2-3 rep range) with compound lifts, just to gauge where I'm at. Once I left my ego at the door and dropped the weight a bit, I really started to notice a difference in isolating the particular muscle group that I was trying to target.

Diet isn't perfect, but as long as I'm around 3000 calories daily and hitting my protein goal I'm happy. If I had to guess, I'm around 15% BF. Will look to drop calories and pick up the cardio next spring. Right now, I'm just looking to add size for this inevitably cold North Dakota winter haha.

Supplement wise, I'm currently utilizing Super Swole for my pre, with a 200mg caffeine capsule. I use Intra Blast and Super Carb by Nutrabio during my workout. I throw in 5g of creatine mono in there daily, as well.

Any more questions, feel free to ask! I'm an open book (y)
You know your winter is no joke when in a first world country in 2020 there are still people literally bulking up to better survive the season
 
Smont

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How am I just now seeing this?! My bad, man.
I lift 4 days a week. Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Bro-split.

Chest/Bi's
Back/Tri's/Abs
Legs/Calves
Shoulders/Traps/Abs

I generally stay in the hypertrophy rep range. These days, I prefer training with more volume while really focusing on good form.. Though I occasionally go heavy (2-3 rep range) with compound lifts, just to gauge where I'm at. Once I left my ego at the door and dropped the weight a bit, I really started to notice a difference in isolating the particular muscle group that I was trying to target.

Diet isn't perfect, but as long as I'm around 3000 calories daily and hitting my protein goal I'm happy. If I had to guess, I'm around 15% BF. Will look to drop calories and pick up the cardio next spring. Right now, I'm just looking to add size for this inevitably cold North Dakota winter haha.

Supplement wise, I'm currently utilizing Super Swole for my pre, with a 200mg caffeine capsule. I use Intra Blast and Super Carb by Nutrabio during my workout. I throw in 5g of creatine mono in there daily, as well.

Any more questions, feel free to ask! I'm an open book (y)
How am I just now seeing this?! My bad, man.
I lift 4 days a week. Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday. Bro-split.

Chest/Bi's
Back/Tri's/Abs
Legs/Calves
Shoulders/Traps/Abs

I generally stay in the hypertrophy rep range. These days, I prefer training with more volume while really focusing on good form.. Though I occasionally go heavy (2-3 rep range) with compound lifts, just to gauge where I'm at. Once I left my ego at the door and dropped the weight a bit, I really started to notice a difference in isolating the particular muscle group that I was trying to target.

Diet isn't perfect, but as long as I'm around 3000 calories daily and hitting my protein goal I'm happy. If I had to guess, I'm around 15% BF. Will look to drop calories and pick up the cardio next spring. Right now, I'm just looking to add size for this inevitably cold North Dakota winter haha.

Supplement wise, I'm currently utilizing Super Swole for my pre, with a 200mg caffeine capsule. I use Intra Blast and Super Carb by Nutrabio during my workout. I throw in 5g of creatine mono in there daily, as well.

Any more questions, feel free to ask! I'm an open book (y)
I would eat more, I dont know how active your daily life is but right now that's how I'm eating, 3000cal and 200gm protein and that's my maintenance area at 197lbs not on cycle, I'd assume you being on and over 210lbs would need more food to grow
 
ndiguy

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You know your winter is no joke when in a first world country in 2020 there are still people literally bulking up to better survive the season
The town I live in, Grand Forks, is the coldest city in the continental US with a population over 10k. It's not uncommon here to experience -60 to -70 degree w/ wind chill temps during Jan & February. **** sucks lol
 
Smont

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The town I live in, Grand Forks, is the coldest city in the continental US with a population over 10k. It's not uncommon here to experience -60 to -70 degree w/ wind chill temps during Jan & February. **** sucks lol
That sounds horrible lol
 
ndiguy

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I would eat more, I dont know how active your daily life is but right now that's how I'm eating, 3000cal and 200gm protein and that's my maintenance area at 197lbs not on cycle, I'd assume you being on and over 210lbs would need more food to grow
Unfortunately, if I go much over 3k daily I'll gain unwanted weight. My job requires me to be behind a a desk most of the day, so unless I'm in the gym I'm not doing much to burn calories. My metabolism at 30, just isn't what it once was... haha
 
Smont

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Unfortunately, if I go much over 3k daily I'll gain unwanted weight. My job requires me to be behind a a desk most of the day, so unless I'm in the gym I'm not doing much to burn calories. My metabolism at 30, just isn't what it once was... haha
Ok desk job makes sense. I'm on my feet all day and up and down ladders a couple days a week as well
 

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