Where did all the love go for DAA?

Toff

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12 days, test boost - what happened?

I know something came out saying it dropped test levels long term but surely the 12/12 protocol still applies?

I feel it.. i feel something... i get bullock balls within the hour.

Seems everything else test boosting around either affects test levels and needs pct (DHEA stuff) or doesnt do anything (tribulus, maca etc.)
 
cheftepesh1

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Wasn’t there research saying that it was ineffective?
 
Young Gotti

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I was a skeptic of of DAA when it came out since I felt like it didn't do much in terms of "gym performance" or libido

but I still think it's a decent product to add as part of a pct
 
VaughnTrue

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there's no hype because far too much science came out showing it to be utterly worthless and potentially bad for hormone levels (increasing estrogen)
 
TommyTuffGuy

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I recall reading many studies out more recently that it doesn't do chit.
 
VaughnTrue

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quick google search:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4384294/

Methods
Twenty-four males, with a minimum of two years’ experience in resistance training, (age, 24.5 ± 3.2 y; training experience, 3.4 ± 1.4 y; height, 178.5 ± 6.5 cm; weight, 84.7 ± 7.2 kg; bench press 1-RM, 105.3 ± 15.2 kg) were randomised into one of three groups: 6 g.d−1 plain flour (D0); 3 g.d−1 of d-aspartic acid (D3); and 6 g.d−1 of d-aspartic acid (D6). Participants performed a two-week washout period, training four days per week. This continued through the experimental period (14 days), with participants consuming the supplement in the morning. Serum was analysed for levels of testosterone, estradiol, sex hormone binding globulin, albumin and free testosterone was determined by calculation.

Results
D-aspartic acid supplementation revealed no main effect for group in: estradiol; sex-hormone-binding-globulin; and albumin. Total testosterone was significantly reduced in D6 (P = 0.03). Analysis of free testosterone showed that D6 was significantly reduced as compared to D0 (P = 0.005), but not significantly different to D3. Analysis did not reveal any significant differences between D3 and D0. No significant correlation between initial total testosterone levels and responsiveness to d-aspartic acid was observed (r = 0.10, P = 0.70).

Conclusions
The present study demonstrated that a daily dose of six grams of d-aspartic acid decreased levels of total testosterone and free testosterone (D6), without any concurrent change in other hormones measured. Three grams of d-aspartic acid had no significant effect on either testosterone markers. It is currently unknown what effect this reduction in testosterone will have on strength and hypertrophy gains.

Keywords: D-aspartic acid, Resistance training, Testosterone, Estradiol, SHBG
lowered testosterone and lowered free testosterone.




https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5571970/

Conclusions
The results of this paper indicate that DAA supplementation is ineffective at changing testosterone levels, or positively affecting training outcomes. Reductions in estradiol and the blunting of peripheral excitability appear unrelated to improvements from resistance training.



https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531713001735

Abstract
It was hypothesized that d-aspartic acid (D-ASP) supplementation would not increase endogenous testosterone levels or improve muscular performance associated with resistance training. Therefore, body composition, muscle strength, and serum hormone levels associated with the hypothalamo-pituitary-gonadal axis were studied after 28 days of resistance training and D-ASP supplementation. Resistance-trained men resistance trained 4 times/wk for 28 days while orally ingesting either 3 g of placebo or 3 g of D-ASP. Data were analyzed with 2 × 2 analysis of variance (P < .05). Before and after resistance training and supplementation, body composition and muscle strength, serum gonadal hormones, and serum D-ASP and d-aspartate oxidase (DDO) were determined. Body composition and muscle strength were significantly increased in both groups in response to resistance training (P < .05) but not different from one another (P > .05). Total and free testosterone, luteinizing hormone, gonadotropin-releasing hormone, and estradiol were unchanged with resistance training and D-ASP supplementation (P > .05). For serum D-ASP and DDO, D-ASP resulted in a slight increase compared with baseline levels (P > .05). For the D-ASP group, the levels of serum DDO were significantly increased compared with placebo (P < .05). The gonadal hormones were unaffected by 28 days of D-ASP supplementation and not associated with the observed increases in muscle strength and mass. Therefore, at the dose provided, D-ASP supplementation is ineffective in up-regulating the activity of the hypothalamo-pituitary-gonadal axis and has no anabolic or ergogenic effects in skeletal muscle.
 

kisaj

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It was hyped up on very limited studies and the anecdotal experiences from people that used it showed that more people tended to have negative experiences with it than positive. So it died off slowly, but you'll still find some on here that believe it works. So you can still purchase it.
 

Toff

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weird, it makes me:

H*rny as hell
Big balls
Feel good.

Maybe i need more female hormone?

p.s.
those guys were 24?
 
muscleupcrohn

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weird, it makes me:

H*rny as hell
Big balls
Feel good.

Maybe i need more female hormone?

p.s.
those guys were 24?
Do you have low-T? It potentially works for people with low-T, which would mean a lot of “older” (not young) men, and also perhaps PCT. The point is that it appears to be ineffective for young men with normal T-levels.
 
muscleupcrohn

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It's too inexpensive...people tend to think the more expensive the product the better it is
Sarcasm? Otherwise this is a silly claim. Creatine monohydrate is dirt cheap and a staple for many people, as is betaine. Even things like ashwagandha are just as cheap if not cheaper, and have much more research supporting their efficacy.
 
AppJeff

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It did look good on paper at one point, the real world results though...
 
John Smeton

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I believe its still a fertility drug in italy

two big studies, one showing it works back in 2011

the newer one saying its worthless. Maybe the new one had crap quality daa.

Ive seen a guys labs , that it didnt do anything. Does that mean the daa was not good? probably or the fact it may only raise lower levels of testosterone.

Ive used sodium Daa for a company i worked for, AI Sports Nutrition, got blood tested, and mine rose. Another fact is it makes my testes increase. Ive used it on trt and testes increase every time. Its not a miracle product; although most of the products on here and subpar and may help like 0.001 percent, however at least Ive noticed consistent results with it. I rarely take it, if I do it might be two weeks here or there. That said, Im a beliver because of my lab results, and my testes get bigger.
 
mcgeier

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I believe its still a fertility drug in italy

two big studies, one showing it works back in 2011

the newer one saying its worthless. Maybe the new one had crap quality daa.

Ive seen a guys labs , that it didnt do anything. Does that mean the daa was not good? probably or the fact it may only raise lower levels of testosterone.

Ive used sodium Daa for a company i worked for, AI Sports Nutrition, got blood tested, and mine rose. Another fact is it makes my testes increase. Ive used it on trt and testes increase every time. Its not a miracle product; although most of the products on here and subpar and may help like 0.001 percent, however at least Ive noticed consistent results with it. I rarely take it, if I do it might be two weeks here or there. That said, Im a beliver because of my lab results, and my testes get bigger.
The problem with DAA is that you have to use the sodium or calcium form which have studies showing to work. Plain cheap DAA doesnt work but people always use the cheapest form....
 
muscleupcrohn

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The problem with DAA is that you have to use the sodium or calcium form which have studies showing to work. Plain cheap DAA doesnt work but people always use the cheapest form....
I find it strange that the vast majority of studies refer to the two interchangeably when discussing the studies; they don’t seem to differentiate the forms at all in discussions. Also, isn’t the entire “this form of DAA works” based on a single study that has yet to be replicated in 9 years? I mean, it’s “possible” that this form is better, but I’d hardly say it “proves” that this form of DAA works. I still think that any/all DAA is better suited for people with low-T and/or PCT than for young people with normal levels; there are plenty of more proven ingredients.
 

Toff

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Im visiting the doc for low T so maybe thats why it affects me so
 
GQdaLEGEND

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It def works.. Low-normal range
 

scump

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I find it strange that the vast majority of studies refer to the two interchangeably when discussing the studies; they don’t seem to differentiate the forms at all in discussions. Also, isn’t the entire “this form of DAA works” based on a single study that has yet to be replicated in 9 years? I mean, it’s “possible” that this form is better, but I’d hardly say it “proves” that this form of DAA works. I still think that any/all DAA is better suited for people with low-T and/or PCT than for young people with normal levels; there are plenty of more proven ingredients.
I find it strange how literally 3 tiny studies come out and all of a sudden there's "many studies" and "far too much research" to debunk something. I'm not saying the evidence to begin with was significantly better but you can't discredit peoples own experience and tell them something doesn't work because of some weak ass studies, if they have the results, it works for them.

Lets look at the studies showing a negative impact on DAA affects hey?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4384294/

This study done on a whopping 24 bros in the gym, 100% all natty yeah? how come no one cares about the fact the average total testosterone reading qualifies them to be on TRT using our new extreme measurement criteria in Australia? before you you discredit Australia for not being America, have a look where the study was done.

A total of twenty-four participants from the local area completed this study (Table 1). To be eligible participants had to be: male; aged 18–36; have no acute or chronic medical conditions; have the ability to bench press 100% bodyweight
I mean look at their selection criteria, now tell me... whats the odds 24 guys between 18-36 have a baseline testosterone so low the qualify for PBS TRT? You seriously think there has been no AAS abuse here? OFC if the study actually tested LH or FSH we would know more (which is weird considering DAA is proposed to boost LH?) instead they tested fking albumin, which is worthless.

The elsevier article i can't see the full text.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5571970/

This article are done by the same aussies who did the first article, using the same participants (only 22 of them this time) .... and guess what they all still qualify for TRT!!!.

So 2 of the 3 articles "debunking" DAA are done on participants who should actually be on TRT, the third article i can't look at.

So what can we actually conclude? DAA may not have a benefit on those requiring TRT.

Btw this isn't a personal attack at you, i just know that you're always examining research for what it is, as opposed to the majority here who just parrot what someone else says. Others in here and myself have bloods showing DAA worked, afaic there is not sufficient evidence to suggest it doesn't, these studies are garbage and should not be held as any scientific relevance.
 
muscleupcrohn

muscleupcrohn

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I find it strange how literally 3 tiny studies come out and all of a sudden there's "many studies" and "far too much research" to debunk something. I'm not saying the evidence to begin with was significantly better but you can't discredit peoples own experience and tell them something doesn't work because of some weak ass studies, if they have the results, it works for them.

Lets look at the studies showing a negative impact on DAA affects hey?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4384294/

This study done on a whopping 24 bros in the gym, 100% all natty yeah? how come no one cares about the fact the average total testosterone reading qualifies them to be on TRT using our new extreme measurement criteria in Australia? before you you discredit Australia for not being America, have a look where the study was done.



I mean look at their selection criteria, now tell me... whats the odds 24 guys between 18-36 have a baseline testosterone so low the qualify for PBS TRT? You seriously think there has been no AAS abuse here? OFC if the study actually tested LH or FSH we would know more (which is weird considering DAA is proposed to boost LH?) instead they tested fking albumin, which is worthless.

The elsevier article i can't see the full text.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5571970/

This article are done by the same aussies who did the first article, using the same participants (only 22 of them this time) .... and guess what they all still qualify for TRT!!!.

So 2 of the 3 articles "debunking" DAA are done on participants who should actually be on TRT, the third article i can't look at.

So what can we actually conclude? DAA may not have a benefit on those requiring TRT.

Btw this isn't a personal attack at you, i just know that you're always examining research for what it is, as opposed to the majority here who just parrot what someone else says. Others in here and myself have bloods showing DAA worked, afaic there is not sufficient evidence to suggest it doesn't, these studies are garbage and should not be held as any scientific relevance.
There is more than one study that showed it didn't work. I'll go back and re-read the full texts of both and check through the methodology and selection criteria, etc, but I still stand by my (primary) claim that, for young people with normal testosterone levels, there are better options for increasing testosterone, and, more importantly, improving body composition, performance, mood, libido, etc. than DAA. Something like ashwagandha has been shown in numerous studies to have tangible benefits on body composition, endurance, mood, etc. But now I'm getting a bit off topic I suppose. I do think that there's not really much point using DAA if you aren't older, have low-T, or are in PCT (which I suppose "is" low-T); there are just so much better options out there, and small increases in normal T-levels doesn't do much (things like ashwagandha and forskolin have other MoAs that provide benefits besides just T-levels).
 
muscleupcrohn

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Study 1:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4384294/

Subjects:
A total of twenty-four participants from the local area completed this study (Table 1). To be eligible participants had to be: male; aged 18–36; have no acute or chronic medical conditions; have the ability to bench press 100% bodyweight; and had been performing regular resistance training exercise for at least three days per week for the previous two years.
Baseline testosterone levels:
5.85-6.95 ng/ml (depending on which treatment group we're looking at)

The study claims that the "normal healthy level" is 4.9-8.6 ng/ml, which means that the subjects were within this range.

Study 2:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24074738

Subjects:
apparently healthy, recreationally active, resistancetrained
(consistent [at least thrice weekly] resistance training
for 1 year before the study) men with an average age of 22.8 ±
4.67 years, height of 179.5 ± 6.38 cm, and total body mass of
79.1 ± 16.13 kg completed the study
Subjects' starting testosterone levels were ~8ng/ml (7.84 and 8.08 ng/ml for the two groups).

Wouldn't the subjects of both studies then be within the normal range? Furthermore, it looks like the two studies were conducted by different authors, so I'm not sure what you're talking about exactly.

What is your claimed range/criteria for "low-T?"
 

Toff

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I wish it was 36+ year old when our T tanks.

so what we saying, yay, nay?
 
muscleupcrohn

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I wish it was 36+ year old when our T tanks.

so what we saying, yay, nay?
What exactly is your situation? Age? T-levels? PCT? Etc. What are you looking for benefit wise? Improved body composition, performance, mood, libido, etc. Knowing this will help people make relevant suggestions.
 
Beau

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Do you have low-T? It potentially works for people with low-T, which would mean a lot of “older” (not young) men, and also perhaps PCT. The point is that it appears to be ineffective for young men with normal T-levels.
This is what I "understand".

To what extent does it actually help us old-timers?
 
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