Volcom's Optimus PRIME Log

DOMSmestic Violence

I came across something worthy of noting. This is Day 11 and I might have experienced my first notable increased recovery.

I realize DOMS is not necessarily an indication of growth potential or a reflection of the quality of your most recent workout. I don't normally experience DOMS anywhere, anymore. On occasion, I'll be lucky enough to feel a little soreness in my back and traps, but those are sporadic blessings.

However, in light of none of my body parts experiencing much, if any DOMS, my chest experiences DOMS, every, single, time. Since the day I first started working out, to present day, my chest has gotten sore for a solid 3-5 days following a chest session consistent and continually, in a recycling, cycle of pectoral DOMSmestic Violence (considering it was a respectable workout). Furthermore, my chest DOMS are more prevalently perpetuated with high intensity, rather then high volume lifts, therefore, today, I should be considerably sore, right on que.

If my DOMS is not severe in the morning, then by 2:00pm, the fullness thereof will have set in, as is the pattern of my body. I'm a 24hr or less person, not a 48 hour DOMS responder. Around 2:30'ish, I went for a pec stretch and what caught my attention wasn't the amount of soreness as I was expecting (especially from yesterdays numbers), but I was caught off guard by the lack of soreness in my chest and I recalled that one of PRIME-drol's benefits were increased recovery, which is what I am suspecting is the case.

Very naaaaas Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed Invalid Link Removed
 
3clipseGT said:
Yea anywhere from 30-60mgs really. Yohimbe, sulbitiamine, pea,you can basicaly stack geranium with anything.
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Check you out, you're really on the cutting edge of stims. I suppose a GPS (geranium, pea, sulbitiamine) stack would be like a tricked out Nissan Skyline vs the old ECA '65 Ford Cobra Daytona Coupe.



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Irish Cannon said:
Does Prime have an effect on carbohydrate uptake or anything like that? I doubt it would, but I'm just trying to make sense of the lethargy.

I HATE feeling like that. Epidrol killed me in that sense. I was always tired. Passed out. Taking naps. It was rough.
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The only thing I hate worse then lethargy, is worse lethargy.


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Yeah, nice way to put it. Never tried that Reset-AD, but it looks interesting. I cycle off my stims naturally and don't have any need for that particular product, but I could see it's usefullness for some ppl.
 
snagency said:
Yeah, nice way to put it. Never tried that Reset-AD, but it looks interesting. I cycle off my stims naturally and don't have any need for that particular product, but I could see it's usefullness for some ppl.
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It worked much better for Irish then it does for me. I've used it on three separate occasions now, but I don't respond to the same degree as Irish did.
 
Irish Cannon said:
Does Prime have an effect on carbohydrate uptake or anything like that? I doubt it would, but I'm just trying to make sense of the lethargy.

I HATE feeling like that. Epidrol killed me in that sense. I was always tired. Passed out. Taking naps. It was rough.
Click to expand...
In the write-up they claim "
[How Prime Works]
It may also be something related to improved nutrient absorption or utilization.
....


The good news is, USPlabs Prime has demonstrated a very potent nutrient portioning effect so these extra calories are put to good use."
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However since the MoA is undetermined, it is clearly unknown. I think any improvement in nutrient partitioning is likely just from more intense workouts.

Edit: Thanks Ike, didn't realize I had stated it so definitively. I was trying to say that if the MoA shows that there is no effect on nutrient uptake, the benefits would be due to more intense workouts.
 
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VolcomX311 said:
Boy, it was quite difficult to wake up this morning. It was exactly as i felt when i was 3 or 4 weeks into Junlgewarfare, so either:

A). The PRIME-drol is directly causing my lethargy
B). The PRIME-2-dione is indirectly causing my lethargy due to the extra energy I'm able to exert while at the gym.
C). I'm just getting lazy.
D). Only answers A and C
E). Only answers B and C
F). All of the above.
G). None of the above, stop being a douche.


Whether I am able to indicate a source or not, I am feeling all the signs of lethargy. VERY hard to get out of bed (even with 8 hours of good sleep), sluggish as heck during the day, lack of energy and general apathy as a result of the lethargy when its time to hit the gym.

Would adding caffeine to my experience be considered tainting the integrity of the "solo run" in your guys' opinions?
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Hey Volcom, in regards to lethargy, I’m in the same boat and (as much as I HATE to admit it :sad:), I agree with General Snag and DreamWeaver. Prime makes you work soooo much harder and therefore you need more rest to recover. I had a hell of a week at work, but managed a gruelling session yesterday :eek:
I didn’t even realize how hard I’ve pushed myself until about 5-6 hrs later. I barely dragged myself home and collapsed in bed Invalid Link Removed I couldn’t believe how demolished my whole body wasInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed I had a good night sleep and was really motivated to hit the gym again today. So I did, big mistake. Workout was rather horrible. Had no intensity or the usual "Dragon’s drive" Invalid Link Removed :ntome: The recovery may be enhanced with Prime but you still need to give it time. Rest soldier…so will I!
 
Day 12; I rested.

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Rest day. I probably "could have" worked out, but I felt it more beneficial to recover some more.
 
dragonfly said:
Hey Volcom, in regards to lethargy, I’m in the same boat and (as much as I HATE to admit it :sad:), I agree with General Snag and DreamWeaver. Prime makes you work soooo much harder and therefore you need more rest to recover. I had a hell of a week at work, but managed a gruelling session yesterday :eek:
I didn’t even realize how hard I’ve pushed myself until about 5-6 hrs later. I barely dragged myself home and collapsed in bed Invalid Link Removed I couldn’t believe how demolished my whole body wasInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed I had a good night sleep and was really motivated to hit the gym again today. So I did, big mistake. Workout was rather horrible. Had no intensity or the usual "Dragon’s drive" Invalid Link Removed :ntome: The recovery may be enhanced with Prime but you still need to give it time. Rest soldier…so will I!
Click to expand...


I agree and I've had that same experience. I usually know my body pretty well, but as you mentioned, PRIME has my necessity to recover in a bit of a live & learn situation.
 
VolcomX311; said:
...
Rest day. I probably "could have" worked out, but I felt it more beneficial to recover some more.
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Certainly! Better to rest voluntarily than be forced to do so due to extreme exhaustion or injury.
 
Day 13

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I had another abnormally strong experience today. However, I maybe should have rested one more day. I did skip last night and opted to recover, however, I didn't feel 100% this morning and I felt like I forced myself into the gym. My initial strength was outstanding, yet it still felt like I lacked intensity and my general stamina was much less then it normally is. I wanted to cap the workout off with traps, but I simply couldn't.

Behind The Neck, Shoulder Press
225lbs x 10 [less grunting required then last time]
240lbs x 8 reps [All Time PR]
255lbs x 6 reps [All Time PR. This is actually quite exciting, but I'm so drained right now that it's hard to write with any enthusiasm]

Hammer Shoulder Press
180lbs x 10 reps
200lbs x 10 reps
220lbs x 8 reps
[Overall improved performance compared to last delts session]

Db Side Laterals
35lbs x 10 reps
40lbs x 10 reps
45lbs x 8 reps

Db Front Raises
30lbs x 10 reps
35lbs x 8 reps
40lbs x 8 reps [I was only expecting 6]

Barbell Upright Rows - Wide Grip
95lbs x 10 reps
115lbs x 8 reps
135lbs x 6 reps

This was in fact an outstanding workout, strength wise, but again, I'm feeling severely drained, quite lethargic and my lack of enthusiasm in inscribing this workout is not an accurate reflection of my performance at all. I've never touched 240, much less 255 and I would be much more impressed with myself if I weren't feeling like a zombie right now.

I've cracked into my second bottle of PRIME-drol as I was filling my vitamin dispenser packs last night. It's actually near unbelievable how well I've responded to this.

Has anything changed aesthetically? The contour of my chest has improved, but only if I flex. I was 213lbs this morning which isn't relevant, I was actually a bit excited because the last time I weighed myself I was 215. Historically, I'm most comfortable aesthetically, at around 197-200lbs. The prevalence of my delts are usually a good indication if I'm putting on good or bad weight and my delts are as cut, round and visible as they've ever been, so that's exciting. My delts actually look more defined and contoured right now at 213lbs, then they were when I was 197lbs. When I was 230lbs I had no delts, just a visible line when I carried weights, but no contour or respectable definition, it was sad times. I hated being so big (or better put, so chunk monk). I'm rambling on purpose to procrastinate having to study, so I'd better go.
 
strategicmove said:
Certainly! Better to rest voluntarily than be forced to do so due to extreme exhaustion or injury.
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Sadly, more often then not, those two elements have been my catalyst to rest (even though I know better). I am getting better, but the PRIME-2-dione has thrown a wrench in my energy estimations. Live & Learn and I'm learning as I'm living.
 
This is a bit delayed, Sam, but I know I was taking many more 'naps' a day while using PRIME. At first, I thought it was a lethargic response to the product, but realized it was due to increased intensity later on. I took a week off whilst using the product, and the necessity for naps ceased so, it was most definitely the intensity.

Not necessarily saying PRIME is working well enough for you to cause this to happen but, that was my experience.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
This is a bit delayed, Sam, but I know I was taking many more 'naps' a day while using PRIME. At first, I thought it was a lethargic response to the product, but realized it was due to increased intensity later on. I took a week off whilst using the product, and the necessity for naps ceased so, it was most definitely the intensity.
Click to expand...

That seems to be everyone's take on the sitsiation, including Dragonfly's (who's also running PRIME), Head Chef Snag and DreamWeaver (quite a consensus when you say it out loud). Apart from the element of the increased intensity in the gym, my workout frequency is a bit high for a strength routine. My frequency should be lower then what it was when I was performing a hypertrophy emphasized routine, but it's hard to break into the habit of going into the gym less.

I know product perpetuated lethargy doesn't go away with rest and I have noticed "improved" energy with rest. I still haven't taken "sufficient" rest yet. I believe I may need a full two days in a row, as oppose to my sporadic one day R&R's here and there.

Considering the rather short duration of my run, it's harder then usual to give up a full two days, as beneficial as it would be. I might just have to dig deep and rest appropriately, before I officially implode.



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Mulletsoldier said:
Not necessarily saying PRIME is working well enough for you to cause this to happen but, that was my experience.
Click to expand...

PRIME is working exceptionally well. My most relevant indicator of true, all I have, end of the line strength improvements are either my bench or my dead lifts. With other lifts, it's hard to determine whether I was somewhat able to perform them all along or if they truly are new heights, because my order of exercise can be very ambiguous and/or some of my current, opening compound exercises are fairly new in rotation, so there is still plenty of room for exponential neural adaptions to occur, and/or I am not sure that I am or have ever pushed them 100%, such as shoulder presses or lat pull downs. However, my flat bench (and dead lifts) are an all out, I know this is my limit effort each time. Furthermore, my flat bench performances will increase and decrease, or I should say, adjust (volume vs intensity) accordingly to which ever regiment I am undergoing (I re-read that last statement and I'm not sure how that's relevant, but nonetheless, fun fact for the day).

I know I have never "legitimately" hit 315 for more then 6 reps, therefore, if I can achieve that, then for me, that is a clear cut sign that PRIME has brought me beyond my means.

I was able to hit 315 for 6 very legitimately when I was 230. I'm nearing my (230lbs) strength week by week, so we'll see how far I can go with this. I was considering purchasing one more bottle of PRIME because I have yet to hit a wall on my strength improvements, and I would really like to hit 315 for 10 reps to be honest.

I definitely have not regretted my purchases.

P.S. When I say hit 315 for 6+, I mean in succession and progression of my sets. I could probably hit that record sooner if I warmed up a few sets and went right to it, which is where DC would be great, but I'm more volume based then that. The element of volume in a strength equation is a bit counter intuitive I realize, but my goal here isn't to see how PRIME can bring about the most PR's, but how PRIME effects my strength as though I were going through my regular routine. Otherwise, I could single set everything and really drive up the PR's, but as I mentioned, the quantity of PR's isn't my goal. It's how PRIME effects my bodybuilding experience.

I've never been a PR guy. My intensity PR's will obviously dramatically decrease once I become more hypertrophy focused, and vice versa, so there are only a few exercises that I can knowledgeably claim PR's, because they are so familiar and consistent and bench is one of them.
 
VolcomX311 said:
Invalid Link Removed

I had another abnormally strong experience today. However, I maybe should have rested one more day. I did skip last night and opted to recover, however, I didn't feel 100% this morning and I felt like I forced myself into the gym. My initial strength was outstanding, yet it still felt like I lacked intensity and my general stamina was much less then it normally is. I wanted to cap the workout off with traps, but I simply couldn't.

Behind The Neck, Shoulder Press
225lbs x 10 [less grunting required then last time]
240lbs x 8 reps [All Time PR]
255lbs x 6 reps [All Time PR. This is actually quite exciting, but I'm so drained right now that it's hard to write with any enthusiasm]

Hammer Shoulder Press
180lbs x 10 reps
200lbs x 10 reps
220lbs x 8 reps
[Overall improved performance compared to last delts session]

Db Side Laterals
35lbs x 10 reps
40lbs x 10 reps
45lbs x 8 reps

Db Front Raises
30lbs x 10 reps
35lbs x 8 reps
40lbs x 8 reps [I was only expecting 6]

Barbell Upright Rows - Wide Grip
95lbs x 10 reps
115lbs x 8 reps
135lbs x 6 reps

This was in fact an outstanding workout, strength wise, but again, I'm feeling severely drained, quite lethargic and my lack of enthusiasm in inscribing this workout is not an accurate reflection of my performance at all. I've never touched 240, much less 255 and I would be much more impressed with myself if I weren't feeling like a zombie right now.

I've cracked into my second bottle of PRIME-drol as I was filling my vitamin dispenser packs last night. It's actually near unbelievable how well I've responded to this.
Click to expand...

Awesome! This is so exciting to see!

Is it just me, or is your Transformer pic on Prime too? That image looks a little bigger these days, ahaa..
 
VolcomX311 said:
PRIME is working exceptionally well.
I was able to hit 315 for 6 very legitimately when I was 230. I'm nearing my (230lbs) strength week by week, so we'll see how far I can go with this. I was considering purchasing one more bottle of PRIME because I have yet to hit a wall on my strength improvements, and I would really like to hit 315 for 10 reps to be honest.

I definitely have not regretted my purchases.

I've never been a PR guy. My intensity PR's will obviously dramatically decrease once I become more hypertrophy focused, and vice versa, so there are only a few exercises that I can knowledgeably claim PR's, because they are so familiar and consistent and bench is one of them.
Click to expand...

I'm glad this has turned out to be a positive experience for you. I thought it might. Now I feel that I didn't overhype it as much as it seemed like it to even me at the time. It really is a solid product.

I'm not into the PR's soley for the sake of noting PR's either. But I feel my readers like to note the progress of my cycles and routines. It seemed at first like an easy way to track it. But now I've eased off using the term somewhat and just note if an exercise has increased or not.

Of course, my DC based routine puts more emphasis on strength gains and this is only the beginning of my third blast cycle. So the numbers will continue to climb for a while longer. :thumbsup:

Keep poundin' out dat heavy iron big V!! :head:
 
dragonfly said:
Hey Volcom, in regards to lethargy, I’m in the same boat and (as much as I HATE to admit it :sad:), I agree with General Snag and DreamWeaver. Prime makes you work soooo much harder and therefore you need more rest to recover. I had a hell of a week at work, but managed a gruelling session yesterday :eek:
I didn’t even realize how hard I’ve pushed myself until about 5-6 hrs later. I barely dragged myself home and collapsed in bed Invalid Link Removed I couldn’t believe how demolished my whole body wasInvalid Link RemovedInvalid Link Removed I had a good night sleep and was really motivated to hit the gym again today. So I did, big mistake. Workout was rather horrible. Had no intensity or the usual "Dragon’s drive" Invalid Link Removed :ntome: The recovery may be enhanced with Prime but you still need to give it time. Rest soldier…so will I!
Click to expand...

true u get great recovery but you cns dose not recover as fast
 
Mulletsoldier said:
This is a bit delayed, Sam, but I know I was taking many more 'naps' a day while using PRIME. At first, I thought it was a lethargic response to the product, but realized it was due to increased intensity later on. I took a week off whilst using the product, and the necessity for naps ceased so, it was most definitely the intensity.

Not necessarily saying PRIME is working well enough for you to cause this to happen but, that was my experience.
Click to expand...

Furthermore, as I was looking into extending my cycle, because I was not certain whether PRIME had a 30 day suggested limit (which it does not), I ran into a paragraph warning of potential CNS fatigue if you should choose daily dosing vs 5 on 2 off (which Snag has previously brought up. I need to start listening to all the Snagesstions.)
 
thundergod said:
I'm glad this has turned out to be a positive experience for you. I thought it might. Now I feel that I didn't overhype it as much as it seemed like it to even me at the time. It really is a solid product.

I'm not into the PR's soley for the sake of noting PR's either. But I feel my readers like to note the progress of my cycles and routines. It seemed at first like an easy way to track it. But now I've eased off using the term somewhat and just note if an exercise has increased or not.

Of course, my DC based routine puts more emphasis on strength gains and this is only the beginning of my third blast cycle. So the numbers will continue to climb for a while longer. :thumbsup:

Keep poundin' out dat heavy iron big V!! :head:
Click to expand...

Thanks TG. I'm still contemplating being back old HIT/DC/TUT hybrid routines to really hit that upper echelon of strength, but we'll see.
 
snagency said:
Awesome! This is so exciting to see!

Is it just me, or is your Transformer pic on Prime too? That image looks a little bigger these days, ahaa..
Click to expand...

Optimus was on the off season, Lee Priest bulking plan when he took that shot.

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Day 13 you are getting into the meat of it now. My only concern is that your such a high responder that your risk for fatigue may actually be higher than for most of us. That in fact is probably the difference for you. Less frequency and volume may be just what the doctor ordered, nobody said anything about less intense...short more intense workouts are awsome for changes in physique.
 
dragonfly said:
Forgot to ask, are you noticing any changes in appetite Volcom ? Invalid Link Removed
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Nothing of note. I'm generally a hungry person and my appetite only noticeably increases (God save us all) when I'm hitting two or three-a-days (the third being a session of HIIT, not a third lift) on a consistent basis.
 
DreamWeaver said:
Day 13 you are getting into the meat of it now. My only concern is that your such a high responder that your risk for fatigue may actually be higher than for most of us. That in fact is probably the difference for you. Less frequency and volume may be just what the doctor ordered, nobody said anything about less intense...short more intense workouts are awsome for changes in physique.
Click to expand...

This seems to be the hypothesized root of my lethargic symptoms. The demand I'm placing on my body to respond is exceeding my necessary R&R time.

Less frequency seems to be the premise of the solution.
 
VolcomX311 said:
This seems to be the hypothesized root of my lethargic symptoms. The demand I'm placing on my body to respond is exceeding my necessary R&R time.

Less frequency seems to be the premise of the solution.
Click to expand...

Logically arrived at... the solution is apparent.
 
dragonfly said:
Yeah, it is like your body is telling you: One day's enough, ready to go NOW :clean: :dl::squat: :head:, while your CNS is screaming : :nono: Think AGAIN !!!
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This would be the most accurate exchange of dialogue between the body & CNS.

Body: LETS WORKOUT!!!
CNS: not yet, I need more rest.
Body: SOMEBODY SAY SOMETHING?
 
Day 14; Rest Day

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I could have worked out today, but I think I'm going to see if a 2 day "in-a-row" (though still dosing) rest will improve my energy levels.
 
VolcomX311 said:
Yes I am, as was suggested to me by The Mullet Mullisha Invalid Link Removed
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I also be a warrior in that infamous militia. Stand down and get your rest. That's an order, soldier!! Tomorrow we attack at dawn!!
 
Volc!

I'm heading back home tomorrow and starting a couple new logs. I can't wait to hit the weights again. It's felt like a lifetime!

I haven't had much time to spend on AM in the last few days, so I'm way behind. I'll have to catch up with everything later. Hope all is well!

Cheers!
 
VolcomX311 said:
Yes I am, as was suggested to me by The Mullet Mullisha Invalid Link Removed
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Thundergod said:
I also be a warrior in that infamous militia. Stand down and get your rest. That's an order, soldier!! Tomorrow we attack at dawn!!
Click to expand...

The Mullitia! I love it.

MULLET.jpg
 
Irish Cannon said:
Volc!

I'm heading back home tomorrow and starting a couple new logs. I can't wait to hit the weights again. It's felt like a lifetime!

I haven't had much time to spend on AM in the last few days, so I'm way behind. I'll have to catch up with everything later. Hope all is well!

Cheers!
Click to expand...

I have noticed a lack of Irish'ness around these parts. A "couple" new logs says yee? I've never had multiple logs running at once, I don't think that would be a good idea (parami). I'm almost certain I'd get fired when they notice my pile of files have not budged, yet I seem to be furiously typing away at my computer. I could hear the whispering now, "which one of our legal documents have animated smiley's on them? Did we not get the Legal Solutions update discs?"

"These are not California documents people, I'm doing a super-covert, under the table thing-a-majig for somebody out in, and their documents incorporate smiley's, and that middle finger one just means you've been served....the pizza one means Plaintiff.. stop hawking!"

That's the gist of my theoretical situation.
 
I seriously lucked out.

Yesterday was day 1 of 2, planned rest days. However, I woke up with a runny nose, which developed into a nose stuffed up like a damn, couple with heavy & constant sneezing and I felt like hell. I thought I was going to have to extend my rest up to 3 or 4 days, but this morning, I woke up 100%. No runny or stuffy nose and no sneezing. I've never had a 24hr cold before. Lucky me!

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Those are the best kind. Usually, if I feel rundown or a headache or runny nose like you said, I'll slam mega vita C & echinacea, and if it's really feeling big I'll throw in some Nyquil Nighttime Cold & Flu before bed, and this has never failed to nip things in the bud for me.. until after Thanksgiving this year, got sick for the first time in like over 3 yrs..
 
VolcomX311 said:
I seriously lucked out.

Yesterday was day 1 of 2, planned rest days. However, I woke up with a runny nose, which developed into a nose stuffed up like a damn, couple with heavy & constant sneezing and I felt like hell. I thought I was going to have to extend my rest up to 3 or 4 days, but this morning, I woke up 100%. No runny or stuffy nose and no sneezing. I've never had a 24hr cold before. Lucky me!

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

I tend to get those as a default... Traditionally less than once per year. I guess my immune system is pretty strong. If I ever feel anything coming on (scratchy throat) I go immediately to the store and grab a bag of Cold-EZE drops which are essentially zinc losenges. I swear by them. Expensive, but worth every penny.
 
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