cranghel099
Member
very true i agree with u on that to really get those food behavioral changes its prob. necessary to follow it 100 percent
Velocity Diet To 10/10 Transformation
- Thread starter cranghel099
- Start date
very true i agree with u on that to really get those food behavioral changes its prob. necessary to follow it 100 percent
cranghel099
Member
Alright guys, ive been slowly transitioning the v-diet to the 10/10 diet, its been really easy!
no food cravings, energy is good
loving those veggies and lean meats that ive got back in my diet.
Right now im down to two v-diet shakes a day, the other three meals are lean meats with veggies, i will prob. do this til saturday. Sunday i will begin the 10/10 transformation FULL BLOWN. Guys if your looking to reallly boost your cut phase, look into the v-diet; even if its only run for two weeks, your gunna see awesome results which is just gunna motivate u even more! Honestly my diet habits before the v-diet were decent but not great. Just looking over the 10/10 transformation made me question whether i could even handle it. Running the v-diet before any cut diet could really help u stay the course and stay focus. I'm lookin forward to the 10/10 transformation and im really gunna give it all i got. Expect some before mesurements, and pics by sunday, i'll be measuring in and taking photos every 3 weeks (length of each phase)
no food cravings, energy is good
loving those veggies and lean meats that ive got back in my diet.
Right now im down to two v-diet shakes a day, the other three meals are lean meats with veggies, i will prob. do this til saturday. Sunday i will begin the 10/10 transformation FULL BLOWN. Guys if your looking to reallly boost your cut phase, look into the v-diet; even if its only run for two weeks, your gunna see awesome results which is just gunna motivate u even more! Honestly my diet habits before the v-diet were decent but not great. Just looking over the 10/10 transformation made me question whether i could even handle it. Running the v-diet before any cut diet could really help u stay the course and stay focus. I'm lookin forward to the 10/10 transformation and im really gunna give it all i got. Expect some before mesurements, and pics by sunday, i'll be measuring in and taking photos every 3 weeks (length of each phase)
Xodus
Well-known member
What protein did you go with? If you are not using MD, TP's 'Team Skip' blend is a decent substitute, but I didn't think it tasted as good.
Xodus
Well-known member
You are definitely going to want a Casein blend. Isolate goes through you too fast.
JDF
Active member
Sweet bro, good luck!
Are you going to be logging everything in this thread? In a thread at all? Just want to know cuz I'd like to see how this works out for you.:study:
CryingEmo
Well-known member
There is no way to get through it without casein, or micellar casein.
Word of advice: Do an insane carb refeed the day before you start.
macedaddy
Board Sponsor
SWEET!
i am on appetite suppressants, though. I think i will be fine. Leviathan cuts my appetite like nothing else since our original Stim X.
Xodus
Well-known member
Neil5585
Member
Never had an issue with that. I'm not convinced that one day of eating like this will do any harm...
Neil5585
Member
Yup. Whey is just too fast. It doesn't fill you up for ****. casein "gels up" in the stomach and is anti-catabolic, and is much better at filling you up.
The original Fat Fast Diet was with just whey....let's just say it was miserable and even the author of the diet on T-Nation didn't make it through the planned diet... lol
Xodus
Well-known member
Little bit of interesting, random trivia. The guy that 'turned' Shugart onto the diet was Invalid Link Removed. He was the R&D guy for Gaspari at the time, responsible for 'SizeOn'.
It was a diet reserved for the morbidly obese, a VLCD, typically 500 cals/day. I think he only made it like 3 or 4 days on it...
cranghel099
Member
yeah Xodus that's what i used its a great product i like how they throw some egg protien in the mix, but spend the extra dime and get the premium flavors, that or use Davinci sweetner, **** kicks asss
cranghel099
Member
Xodus
Well-known member
Two different things going on there.
The V-Diet is for rapid fat loss.
The 10/10 diet/workout is different. I don't know the specifics of the 10/10 diet though.
cranghel099
Member
LIke i said earlier this week ive been giving the first phase workouts a trial run, just to see where i am, what weight to use etc.
I'm not gunna lie i lost a little bit of strength, but lets be realistic hear, a little aint bad for such an extreme diet, such as the v-diet. I ran the second workout of the first phase today. Looks like this:
Circuit training; Sets: 5; Reps: 8; rest 45 seconds
A1 Push Press
A2 Rows
A3 Dumbbell Romanian Deadlifts
A4 Zercher Squats (CRUCIAL)
Notes: This workout kicked my ass; started alittle too heavy, but i'll tweak the weights around for next week. I made it through four circuits with the strict rest, i went to start my fifth circuit when my calf crampped up! Which brings up another point, what do u guys think of potassium supplementation? effective? i was also thinking of supplementing with some taurine and beta alanine; i did notice some lactic acid build up but nothing substantial. The zercher squats are pretty crucial have done them in a while, deff. a good exercise if u wanna check your ego.
I'm not gunna lie i lost a little bit of strength, but lets be realistic hear, a little aint bad for such an extreme diet, such as the v-diet. I ran the second workout of the first phase today. Looks like this:
Circuit training; Sets: 5; Reps: 8; rest 45 seconds
A1 Push Press
A2 Rows
A3 Dumbbell Romanian Deadlifts
A4 Zercher Squats (CRUCIAL)
Notes: This workout kicked my ass; started alittle too heavy, but i'll tweak the weights around for next week. I made it through four circuits with the strict rest, i went to start my fifth circuit when my calf crampped up! Which brings up another point, what do u guys think of potassium supplementation? effective? i was also thinking of supplementing with some taurine and beta alanine; i did notice some lactic acid build up but nothing substantial. The zercher squats are pretty crucial have done them in a while, deff. a good exercise if u wanna check your ego.
Xodus
Well-known member
I think B-Alanine is essential. The affects aren't felt immediately, but the increased endurance does show up.
I use bulk taurine as my 'filler' for bulk supps that I cap, not sure how much I get, but it was enough to stave off back/calf pumps on SD.
For potassium, eat a banana or two!
Frank Reynolds
Board Supporter
What brand protein are most of you using?
I may give this a go later on in the spring..
I may give this a go later on in the spring..
Xodus
Well-known member
I used mostly Biotest Metabolic Drive. Mix of flavors (except chocolate). The banana kicks ass. Orange, not so much, mixed with vanilla it was better.
Team Skip by trueprotein is a decent alternative, not much cheaper and I thought the flavor and mouthfeel was a little lacking, more chalky and a little less 'filling'. If I ever do it again, it will be ALL Metabolic Drive.
If you go the Biotest route, they actually have a 'V-Diet Special' where it knocks like $50 or so off of the entire diet. MD, Surge, Flameout, Hot-Rox and BCAA's. You will still need Natty PB, milled flax seed and fiber tabs.
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cranghel099
Member
haha yeah i ate half a banana before the workout, i think my body is still tryin to recover from the amount of stress caused by the v-diet, i followed up my workout with some chicken breasts in a wrap, to get some more potassium. Speaking of superdrol, what do u guys think of running prohormones on the v-diet??? I was thinking something not too stessful on the body like high dosage of furazadrol
Xodus
Well-known member
I think you'd go hypo if you ran superdrol with it.
Something a little milder might not be bad, but you are already stressing your body pretty good as it is...
cranghel099
Member
The idea behind the 10/10 transformation is do it in phases, first u lose approx. five pounds of body fat, next phase u gain five pounds of muscle, followed by another fat loss, phase, and last another muscle building phase. Each phase is 3 weeks long. Waterbury includes tactical training methods to induce as much fat loss and muscle gain as possible such as, circuit training, High frequency training, asymmetrical training, and last modified high frequency training
cranghel099
Member
Xodus what is your dosage recommendation of beta alanine i was thinking anywhere up to 10 grams a day, i know that sounds a bit high, but some coaches like poliquin suggest that its pretty effective at high dosages
Neil5585
Member
I'm not entirely sure on this, really. However I would say it depends on bodyfat. If someone is quite chubby I don't think doing a 2 week bulk would be very productive, even after 2 weeks on the V diet. I'd probably jump start it with a month of V-Diet and then maybe look to do some muscle gain once leaner so insulin can properly do its job to help gain muscle.
I think people should get reasonably lean before worrying about bulking up. When you're fat and you try to bulk, it's usually pretty worthless (from a bodybuilding point of view) because you gain way too much fat compared to muscle.
I'd have to read up more on Waterbury's 10/10 program.
I rather like Poliquin's Super Accumulation Program for the fastest mass possible without using steroids. Although the results may even rival the juice...hello, 10 lbs in 6 weeks? Sheesh. Poliquin has mentioned 8 lbs in 3 weeks. I've done 5 lbs per 3 weeks, done twice. That was with only whey protein and food...I want to push the limits and see if I can hit that 8 lbs in 3 weeks mark he has mentioned with supplements like very high dose BCAAs, hydrolyzed whey/WMS shakes, Anabolic Pump, and some others. I don't think most people can handle the eating required for this to work, though, let alone the 9 full body workouts per week for two weeks....
So I guess when it comes down to it, the fastest fat loss diet I've seen is the Velocity Diet. The fastest program for gaining lean mass is the Super Accumulation Program. I've read lots of stuff on forums about the SAP with people saying they were doing it...well guess what? Not many people actually did the whole thing, and many complained it didn't work if they "finished" it. I just don't think they trained hard enough or ate enough. Seriously we're realistically talking 10,000 calories plus per day for the recovery week. The perpetual pump you have that week is absolutely insane...my shoulders felt so tight that my range of motion seriously was very restricted.
So yeah, depending on your BF, 3-4 weeks of V-Diet (with a big cheat day after 2 weeks) and then 2 cycles of the SAP. I'd throw in some recovery time between the two I think, like a week tapering up calories. That way realistically you'd have 9-10 weeks to lose 10 lbs of fat and gain 10 lbs of muscle, or better. If anyone thinks they have the balls to attempt this please start a log! I'd love to see that lol.
cranghel099
Member
I could see why u would think that a bulking phase would be unproductive for somebody with a high BF% to start with, but waterbury's diet plan EVEN ON THE BULK PHASES which last 3 WEEKS in length, require you to eat really clean, with the exception of some cheat meals. I think the idea behind waterbury's bulk phase is to take in just enough calories to stimulate (MAXIMIZE) lean muscle mass, while reducing the chances of fat gain. Taken directly from his ebook:
"The key, however, is to not eat so much that you gain fat. If you gain a little, it’s fine, but we want to minimize fat gain at all costs."
"I’ve never been a fan of high calorie diets because they’re too difficult for most people to follow and they tend to, of course, make people fat."
You speak of the Super Accumulation Program which sounds like an awesome program; 9 full body workouts in one week. That's High frequency training at its best; but to be honest, do you really think most traniees would have the work capacity to handle such a routine? I think most traniees who lack the experience as well as work capacity (keep in mind, this is assuming these traniees have done at least 3 total body workouts a week) would experience some real gains on waterbury's bulk phase which require 5 FULL BODY workouts a week; just a step up but not too overwhelming. Also, based on a High Frequency Training article i read over at t-nation, according to Waterbury it takes weeks to progress to over 8 full body workouts a week.
But don't get me wrong, the Super Accumulation Program prob. is a very successful program, especially if its only run for two weeks. There's just so many variables to consider set/rep volume, a.m./p.m. workouts etc.
cranghel099
Member
I could see why u would think that a bulking phase would be unproductive for somebody with a high BF% to start with, but waterbury's diet plan EVEN ON THE BULK PHASES which last 3 WEEKS in length, require you to eat really clean, with the exception of some cheat meals. I think the idea behind waterbury's bulk phase is to take in just enough calories to stimulate (MAXIMIZE) lean muscle mass, while reducing the chances of fat gain. Taken directly from his ebook:
"The key, however, is to not eat so much that you gain fat. If you gain a little, it’s fine, but we want to minimize fat gain at all costs."
"I’ve never been a fan of high calorie diets because they’re too difficult for most people to follow and they tend to, of course, make people fat."
You speak of the Super Accumulation Program which sounds like an awesome program; 9 full body workouts in one week. That's High frequency training at its best; but to be honest, do you really think most traniees would have the work capacity to handle such a routine? I think most traniees who lack the experience as well as work capacity (keep in mind, this is assuming these traniees have done at least 3 total body workouts a week) would experience some real gains on waterbury's bulk phase which require 5 FULL BODY workouts a week; just a step up but not too overwhelming. Also, based on a High Frequency Training article i read over at t-nation, according to Waterbury it takes weeks to progress to over 8 full body workouts a week.
But don't get me wrong, the Super Accumulation Program prob. is a very successful program, especially if its only run for two weeks. There's just so many variables to consider set/rep volume, a.m./p.m. workouts etc.
cranghel099
Member
that may work but how many grams of fiber does that calulate out to? Shugart suggests like 20-25 total dietary fiber
Neil5585
Member
Well I'm still not convinced that trying to gain muscle is a good idea when pretty fat, cause insulin sensitivity sucks, regardless of calories eaten.
Trust me man the SAP with 9 workouts a week is a world of difference from Waterbury's 5-8 full body workouts per week. SAP every set is balls to the walls to failure...Waterbury is non-failure. I did work into it slightly by doing 3 full body workouts a week, but that's about it. I'm no god of recovery myself here. The point is it will bury you in those 2 weeks. You walk around constantly feeling like you got jumped the night before... lol
cranghel099
Member
Yeah a BF% of 9 to 16 percent seems like the ideal range to where you would see the most results, anything above that you would have to take into consideration insulin sensitvity, but genetics play a huge role as well, even at a low bodyfat the occasional cheat meal could set back someone with inferior metabolism genes.
EasyEJL
Never enough
I think it was right at 4.5g per shake, with 23ishg of protein, and 1g of fat, maybe 1g of carbs on top of that. I did it with the ion exchange whey. came to under $10 a pound that way.
Simpfan1278
New member
I'm sorry to take this thread of track, but for this cheat day after 2 weeks on the v-diet I'm planning on eatting 15,000+ cals. Is there a limit or can I go crazy?
Xodus
Well-known member
Why the f*ck would you want to do that?
Read the diet, Shugart considers the 'cheat' a restaurant meal, like a salad w/oil & vinegar and a lean steak with steamed veg. This diet is about as simple as it gets, no thinking required. Why do people constantly want to change stuff?
:aargh:
cranghel099
Member
Sounds solid go for it, but put in the extra dime and get premium flavors, true protien original flavors are god aweful
CryingEmo
Well-known member
If you go low carb, and below caloric maintenance, and totally drain your glycogen stores, you can have a day or so period where you can eat thousands of calories in just carbs, and they will go to replenish glycogen stores and never get stored as fat until glycogen is full again. And that is about 6 grams/KG of LBM. So if you have 200 lb's LBM, that's like 1200 carbs before glycogen is full again.
Xodus
Well-known member
Would that not then pretty much halt fat loss until glycogen stores are depleted again? Seems like you would take 2 steps back halfway through the diet.
Neil5585
Member
Hmm, depleted glycogen isn't needed to lose fat. That would pose a problem as glycogen stores aren't totally depleted when even keto dieting since the body produces glycogen out of amino acids, glycerol, and lactate. That's kinda like when some people say insulin stops fat loss...well good luck having no insulin unless you're totally fasting or eating a diet that's like 90-100% fat
In fact, if someone has ever tried a big ol' cheat day after weeks of very restrictive low carb dieting you may have noticed that you actually lose fat rather quickly after such a meal in the following week. However given that, I feel that 15,000+ calories is a tad ridiculous for just a cheat day. Unless you're drinking all these calories, you'd probably end up miserable. I wouldn't even worry about calories...I'd just go out and enjoy myself for a day with friends, having pizza here, burgers there, ice cream while out, etc. That should serve the purpose just fine and serve as an awesome mental vacation and still help in the fat loss/metabolism department.
Xodus
Well-known member
It just seems pretty silly to me. If you are not going to follow the diet, why waste your time and money and say you are doing the 'V-Diet', when all you are really doing is CKD. It would be cheaper to just do this with chicken breasts/roughy/tilapia. You will not get the behavioral/taste changes, etc. Save your money and do carb cycling with whole foods.
macedaddy
Board Sponsor
X, question i had about the diet is, that he uses 4 servings of Flax per day to get fiber and fat. But, then also talks aobut using fiber tabs.
what is a good ballpark for how much fiber/fat we should be getting. Cause he also talks aobut 21 salmon caps on workout days. I have fish oil that is 750mg per serving. so how do you suppose i would corelate that? jsut do 21 of the fish caps that i have?
Also, that surge he uses POST workout has all sorts of sugar and dextrose. would a WMS supp be better post workout? I was actually thinking of using it PRE-workout, though. I'm not trying to change the diet, just to understand.......
what is a good ballpark for how much fiber/fat we should be getting. Cause he also talks aobut 21 salmon caps on workout days. I have fish oil that is 750mg per serving. so how do you suppose i would corelate that? jsut do 21 of the fish caps that i have?
Also, that surge he uses POST workout has all sorts of sugar and dextrose. would a WMS supp be better post workout? I was actually thinking of using it PRE-workout, though. I'm not trying to change the diet, just to understand.......
CryingEmo
Well-known member
I wasn't refering the v-diet, I mean CKD specifically.
If you've adopted a diet like the anabolic diet, you should have made the behavoir changes already.
CryingEmo
Well-known member
If you use metabolic drive, there is 1 gram of fiber per scoop. 2 scoops = 2 grams, + 2 fiber tabs (4 more grams) and 4 more grams from flax. That's like 10 grams of fiber, 43 grams of protien, add 4 fish oils, and you've got 13 grams of fat too. 6 grams of carbs that aren't fiber.
Xodus
Well-known member
The fiber tabs are to keep you regular and solid, if you catch my drift. It also aids in feeling 'full'. I used 2/day, but I didn't think I needed them as the flax meal was pretty good at that. I would keep them on hand and use them as needed.
Regarding fish oil, I would check the EPA/DHA numbers on your caps vs. what is in Flameout and adjust the quantity up or down (probably up) to get the equivalent.
Surge was 'created' by Berardi and by his own admission, you could substitute WPI, gatorade and BCAA's. I like Surge, but its expensive. Surge is used during and post workout.
FWIW, I make my own now. 1 scoop WPI, 2 scoops WMS, 1 scoop powdered Gatorade in lots of cold water.