Vector, how is this thought of nowadays

Wobmarvel

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I remember a couple of years ago vector was a hot topic. Crazy claims, some called bunk. Others swore by it. I used it myself. Noticed some good nutrient partitioning on a slight calorie surplus.

Is this supplement still rated highly? I see a lot of mention of anabolic effect, and now anabolic xt. Is vector still rated?
 
Smont

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I remember a couple of years ago vector was a hot topic. Crazy claims, some called bunk. Others swore by it. I used it myself. Noticed some good nutrient partitioning on a slight calorie surplus.

Is this supplement still rated highly? I see a lot of mention of anabolic effect, and now anabolic xt. Is vector still rated?
Basically the same as all the other natty anabolics. I'm not saying they're the same product but what I'm saying is basically they all work similarly in terms of results
 
Wobmarvel

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Basically the same as all the other natty anabolics. I'm not saying they're the same product but what I'm saying is basically they all work similarly in terms of results
Okay so about 80% placebo, 15% anecdotal and 5% backed by science that will give you a 1 to 2% improvement over not using it provided training and diet are on point?

Still improvement is still improvement
 
Smont

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Okay so about 80% placebo, 15% anecdotal and 5% backed by science that will give you a 1 to 2% improvement over not using it provided training and diet are on point?

Still improvement is still improvement
😂

I would expect small improvements Yes.

Natty route to build muscle
1.Nutrition
2.training. these 2 are of equal importance

3. Creatine
4.natty anabolics
5. Everything else
 
BCseacow83

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The only fault of natty anabolics is that they are NOT strong enough to overcome mistakes in training and diet. Heck we all know MFer's on drugs that still look like crap so if the most powerful PED's in the world sometimes cannot cover for peoples lack of discipline and regimented adherence to a sound plan regarding nutrition and training then no natty product is going to.

Nothing works for everyone first off but if the user is not nailing it diet/training ALL DAYS PER WEEK none of this "76% of the time I am an on point bodybuilder" then natty anabolics will fall short of peoples, often times unrealistic, expectations.

If you work the good natty anabolics work well IMO. I have been on TRT for over a decade and still find benefits to natty anabolics.
 
LeanEngineer

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Quality sleep would be in my top 3
Agreed and I think this one out of all of them lacks the most for me unfortunately :(
 

Resolve10

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You just have to keep in mind a lot of supplement users have weird like adhd supplement purchasing habits. People love to talk about new products and some people just keep hopping from new thing to new thing so they just talk about the newest. The people that tend to stick to things (in my experience) tend to be quieter so they are just going about using the same products over and over, but they just don't talk about it as much.

As far as the product in question (I haven't used) the ingredients are pretty solid and as long as expectations are not too extreme it still should serve a solid benefit. All products benefits tend to get hyped too much to start then settles to where it really is.
 
Wobmarvel

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You just have to keep in mind a lot of supplement users have weird like adhd supplement purchasing habits. People love to talk about new products and some people just keep hopping from new thing to new thing so they just talk about the newest. The people that tend to stick to things (in my experience) tend to be quieter so they are just going about using the same products over and over, but they just don't talk about it as much.

As far as the product in question (I haven't used) the ingredients are pretty solid and as long as expectations are not too extreme it still should serve a solid benefit. All products benefits tend to get hyped too much to start then settles to where it really is.
This is so true. I can be guilty of this. People rarely stick to the same preworkouts over and over. I dont know if it's ADHD but just always thinking that maybe the next supplement will be more effective.
 
LeanEngineer

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This is so true. I can be guilty of this. People rarely stick to the same preworkouts over and over. I dont know if it's ADHD but just always thinking that maybe the next supplement will be more effective.
I'm guilty of this for sure! Gotta try out the latest and greatest! :)
 
Wobmarvel

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I'm guilty of this for sure! Gotta try out the latest and greatest! :)
Another thing I'm guilty of is wanting to be loyal to a brand but for some reason no one company is great at everything. Either their protein is great but their aminos taste like ass. Or there preworkout is amazing but they dont even make a protein powder. I think I just want all the tubs in my cupboard to match lol.
 
Wobmarvel

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Another thing I'm guilty of is wanting to be loyal to a brand but for some reason no one company is great at everything. Either their protein is great but their aminos taste like ass. Or there preworkout is amazing but they dont even make a protein powder. I think I just want all the tubs in my cupboard to match lol.
That possibly is ADHD
 

jmero2

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It's strange to me that after watching the supplement industry for 35 years, nothing really comes out of it in terms of muscle gain and fat loss. This is why I do not take these shill pills. It's the same rhetoric from company to company. Don't get me wrong, I use creatine and a few vitamins and minerals but all the other **** is just bogus..... Well, let me retract the last statement. I have run FD2 from BLR and loved the way it helped with blood glucose and nutrient partitioning but that effect only lasted a few months and stopped.
My 2 cents
 
Wobmarvel

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It's strange to me that after watching the supplement industry for 35 years, nothing really comes out of it in terms of muscle gain and fat loss. This is why I do not take these shill pills. It's the same rhetoric from company to company. Don't get me wrong, I use creatine and a few vitamins and minerals but all the other **** is just bogus..... Well, let me retract the last statement. I have run FD2 from BLR and loved the way it helped with blood glucose and nutrient partitioning but that effect only lasted a few months and stopped.
My 2 cents
Your not wrong. You don't need any supplements really. It's still not proven that multivitamins and minerals actually do anything when taken in pill form. Eat a proper diet and 99% of supplements are not needed.

Some have an effect though however small and I become a bit of a supplement addict when I decide to really get into it. I find if I make the extra commitment to spend hard earned money on supplements I am much more likely to stick to my diet and workout plan to not waste it. It's kind of like a Ying and Yang thing for me.

Even looking into gear. The only safe route is really through trt if you need it and then you are only trying to be "normal" as soon as you try and go super physiological. Then something has to give. You need stuff to mitigate the sides. Protect your organs, stop your hair falling out and you reach a point where you are like...

"Is a six pack and 20 inch arms really worth all this risk"... Then you stop.

Then do it all again 6 months later because you decide "yes" lol
 
BCseacow83

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This is so true. I can be guilty of this. People rarely stick to the same preworkouts over and over. I dont know if it's ADHD but just always thinking that maybe the next supplement will be more effective.
Both. I will add: I do get lots of feedback from customers that when they take a pre for any length of time they "don't feel" it work anymore or as well. I do see this far more often with the really high stim DMHA type products. I do suggest using those sparingly and twice a week max for that very reason. I do have to CONSTANTLY bring in new products as very few purchase the same pre twice. Protein people seem to stick with far better. I also think people, like most supps, are expecting magic with the right pre despite it being one of the last things I recommend so they keep hopping around fueled by hope lol.
 
BCseacow83

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It's strange to me that after watching the supplement industry for 35 years, nothing really comes out of it in terms of muscle gain and fat loss. This is why I do not take these shill pills. It's the same rhetoric from company to company. Don't get me wrong, I use creatine and a few vitamins and minerals but all the other **** is just bogus..... Well, let me retract the last statement. I have run FD2 from BLR and loved the way it helped with blood glucose and nutrient partitioning but that effect only lasted a few months and stopped.
My 2 cents
If you don't think the stuff we have today is better than 35 years ago then I don't think you are paying very close attention.
 
Wobmarvel

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Both. I will add: I do get lots of feedback from customers that when they take a pre for any length of time they "don't feel" it work anymore or as well. I do see this far more often with the really high stim DMHA type products. I do suggest using those sparingly and twice a week max for that very reason. I do have to CONSTANTLY bring in new products as very few purchase the same pre twice. Protein people seem to stick with far better. I also think people, like most supps, are expecting magic with the right pre despite it being one of the last things I recommend so they keep hopping around fueled by hope lol.
I've actually moved on to stim free preworkouts because of the negative effects high stims and caffeine can have on the pump. Plus it avoids any kind of crash. I use stims morning and early afternoon though just as a fat burner and energy kick at work if I need it but I ensure there is a couple of hours between that and my workout plus I don't use hyper extreme pre for my afternoon energy kick.
 
djbombsquad

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I love vector still too this day . I swear by it !
 
Smont

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If you don't think the stuff we have today is better than 35 years ago then I don't think you are paying very close attention.
It's better by comparison, but as far as muscle building goes, for natural supplements creatine is still King and it's not even slightly debatable. So have we really progressed that far in natural supplements to build muscle? I'd say no, we just got more creative and more options. But until we start getting natural supplements that build muscle better than creatine I'd say we're not progressing very far
 

jmero2

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If you don't think the stuff we have today is better than 35 years ago then I don't think you are paying very close attention.
You're probably right, I'm not paying very close attention. Question for you, when you say "better" what do you mean exactly?
 

jmero2

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It's better by comparison, but as far as muscle building goes, for natural supplements creatine is still King and it's not even slightly debatable. So have we really progressed that far in natural supplements to build muscle? I'd say no, we just got more creative and more options. But until we start getting natural supplements that build muscle better than creatine I'd say we're not progressing very far
Perfectly articulated!
 
Smont

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I don't wanna come off like I'm saying there's no good supplements out there because there's plenty of good supplements, the amount of new stuff that came out over the years is endless, I just think when people usually say like, what's the next best thing, or the next big thing or what's the strongest thing I can take.... Nothing ground breaking has come out since creatine in the natty realm. Honestly even in the steroids world, there's nothing new that's groundbreaking in the past 30 years. Until they make a myostatin inhibitor that works I think we're pretty much topped out
 
BCseacow83

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I don't wanna come off like I'm saying there's no good supplements out there because there's plenty of good supplements, the amount of new stuff that came out over the years is endless, I just think when people usually say like, what's the next best thing, or the next big thing or what's the strongest thing I can take.... Nothing ground breaking has come out since creatine in the natty realm. Honestly even in the steroids world, there's nothing new that's groundbreaking in the past 30 years. Until they make a myostatin inhibitor that works I think we're pretty much topped out
I put:
BA
TMG
ARA in the group as well. The quality of protein available today in easy to consume form with flavors for any pallet makes these far more useful than days past.

Given two identical twins I get to train with the exact same diet and lifting and I get to choose between lifetime supply of creatine or ARA I am going ARA hands down if the goal is as much muscle as possible in ten years.
 
Smont

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I put:
BA
TMG
ARA in the group as well. The quality of protein available today in easy to consume form with flavors for any pallet makes these far more useful than days past.

Given two identical twins I get to train with the exact same diet and lifting and I get to choose between lifetime supply of creatine or ARA I am going ARA hands down if the goal is as much muscle as possible in ten years.
I'd choose creatine, but to each there own. In the bigger scheme of things I'd be more concerned with the food, protein powder only in emergency situations if real food is available, then I'd cover micro nutrients, creatine, caffeine and then I'd worry about the other stuff.

I don't find ara to be anything special. I don't personally know of any trainers that have a hard on for ara either.

I'm not saying it's no good, I like the stuff. I just don't have it very high on my list
 
MrKleen73

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You just need to really believe in it and it will be effective. More so because you are twice as likely to push harder and adhere to something you really believe in so you will get whatever the product actually has to offer plus whatever your placebo effect is capable of generating. Of course that is just what I believe. ;)
 

Bigbri01

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I love vector still too this day . I swear by it !
Yeah I love BLR products. Vextor and particularly follidrone 2.0 have served me really well. Got the best gains of my life with Follidrone. Better than any sarms cycles I have ever run. These gains came even at the age of 54. And I have been training for over 30 years.
 
3clipseGT

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I'm this way with Follidrone. Been using it for years. 12 on 4 off, I miss the feel good when I'm off it. just makes me feel healthier for some reason.
Follidrone has multiple ingredients in it that are very good for the body, so that makes complete sense.
 

Jeremyk1

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Isn't it just epicatechin with an absorption complex?
That is a major part of it. Epicatechin itself is also super healthy. But it also has those quercetin-niacin co-crystals I think mainly for nitric oxide support, but quercetin is an antioxidant and good for allergies. Obviously niacin is a B vitamin. And the ecklonia cava I’m pretty sure has benefits for thyroid function and blood sugar regulation. It’s been a while since I looked into the product, but there is more to it.
 
Kronic

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while we don't know the amounts, afaik follidrone is more of that cava stuff than epicatechin. it's still a good product but it you want pure epicatechin go with epichaos from Apex alchemy
 
botk1161

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I have ran dozens and dozens of bottles of folidrone from the very beginning and epichaos by Apex Alchemy blows it away.
 

Bigbri01

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I have ran dozens and dozens of bottles of folidrone from the very beginning and epichaos by Apex Alchemy blows it away.
What results did you get from epichaos, and how long did you run it for?
 
SHORSE

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I have ran dozens and dozens of bottles of folidrone from the very beginning and epichaos by Apex Alchemy blows it away.
Been using Ursa for I don't know how long. bought 12 bottles on the BOGO and just busted out the last one this morning.
of course my wife loves it as well. cant keep her out of it.
Might have to give epichaos a shot.
 

Tunaking14

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It's better by comparison, but as far as muscle building goes, for natural supplements creatine is still King and it's not even slightly debatable. So have we really progressed that far in natural supplements to build muscle? I'd say no, we just got more creative and more options. But until we start getting natural supplements that build muscle better than creatine I'd say we're not progressing very far
Creatine mono does absolutely zero for me. I've read where some people are "non-responders" to it.
 

Tunaking14

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Been using Ursa for I don't know how long. bought 12 bottles on the BOGO and just busted out the last one this morning.
of course my wife loves it as well. cant keep her out of it.
Might have to give epichaos a shot.
Epichaos and Ursa are where it's at.....I love stacking those together!
 
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