Ursa Major

If I'm not mistaken the menthol and eucalyptus oil are included for absorption reasons, I'm not sure it can be removed without reformulation of the carrier.
 
Fly_boy said:
It would be cool if you offered a scentless/low smell version.
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It would just smell like the carrier ingredients and then people would say it made them smell like an alcoholic or like they'd spilled fuel on themselves...
 
Anyone else have an issue where it gels to a solid ? I’ve had it in paste and just run some hot water shake it up and it’s good to go for awhile. The batch I am using now I have to do it daily which is kinda a pain

No issues with Helios bottles just the URSA
 
Ursa does the same for me every day. I have to also run hot water over it. I believe it’s due to the special carrier they had to use.
 
nostrum420 said:
Are the bottles getting cold? Possibly overnight?
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Shouldn’t be they are in a closet I do live In northeast but lows aren’t bad at night and I have heat on 67 in room anyway . I’ll try moving them and see if I have same issue. Now that you mention it I have moved them from one room to my office closet is on outside wall and that may have been when it started. Is the Helios different carrier it doesn’t happen to those and all stored together

Thanks
 
uforce said:
what do you consider cold? my house is ranging between 65 to 68 currently.
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Hmmm, I wouldn't think that would be cold enough... try keeping them on top of the fridge, or somewhere else that stays particularly warm, if you can, and let me know if that helps.
 
nostrum420 said:
Hmmm, I wouldn't think that would be cold enough... try keeping them on top of the fridge, or somewhere else that stays particularly warm, if you can, and let me know if that helps.
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I had one Ursa that gelled out of 6 that were sitting under my bathroom sink. I put it in a old sock and it liquefied back. Only one had that issue.
 
No luck had 2.5 bottles solid Gel this morning again. Oddly enough i checked my 3 bottles of Helios and they were all fine
 
My AET has never solidified. I’d just keep it in the shower if I didn’t worry about my son getting curious. Take a shower. Dry off. Apply.
 
uforce said:
My AET has never solidified. I’d just keep it in the shower if I didn’t worry about my son getting curious. Take a shower. Dry off. Apply.
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Yeah, it seems to be isolated to Ursa Major. The thing is, I haven't seen it happen to any in inventory or any that I've used personally. I'll see if I can figure out a fix...
 
nostrum420 said:
Yeah, it seems to be isolated to Ursa Major. The thing is, I haven't seen it happen to any in inventory or any that I've used personally. I'll see if I can figure out a fix...
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so i did some testing guys..
test #1= I put one in the fridge.. to let it gel up.. and it appeared solid. couldn't suck any up into the dispenser. i ran it under hot tap water... and it does go back into a gelled liquid and could be sucked up, however the next day... solid again.
test #2= i bathed it in hot hot (not quite boiling) water for several mins.. 10-15.. seems like its stable again and has stayed liquid for several days now.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
so i did some testing guys..
test #1= I put one in the fridge.. to let it gel up.. and it appeared solid. couldn't suck any up into the dispenser. i ran it under hot tap water... and it does go back into a gelled liquid and could be sucked up, however the next day... solid again.
test #2= i bathed it in hot hot (not quite boiling) water for several mins.. 10-15.. seems like its stable again and has stayed liquid for several days now.
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Interesting... like I figured, it must be what Ursa does instead of "crashing" the way we normally think of it.

It makes sense too that if the active is staying suspended in a gel instead of recrystallising and precipitating to the bottom that it's then pretty easy to get back into solution.

I imagine this will be less of a problem as we head into the summer but I am working on a solution. I think I know whats happening it's just a matter of figuring out if fixing one thing causes another problem... I don't think it will but more testing is needed.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
so i did some testing guys..
test #1= I put one in the fridge.. to let it gel up.. and it appeared solid. couldn't suck any up into the dispenser. i ran it under hot tap water... and it does go back into a gelled liquid and could be sucked up, however the next day... solid again.
test #2= i bathed it in hot hot (not quite boiling) water for several mins.. 10-15.. seems like its stable again and has stayed liquid for several days now.
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Thanks for running these tests. I’ll try it out also

Appreciate your time testing it out
 
no problem dude! i will say this.. its nothing for us to do such things. we do so gladly. APEX just wants to put effective products in your hands. to keep doing that, we need support from our great patrons. to keep that support we will continue to address all things APEX.
 
nostrum420 said:
Interesting... like I figured, it must be what Ursa does instead of "crashing" the way we normally think of it.

It makes sense too that if the active is staying suspended in a gel instead of recrystallising and precipitating to the bottom that it's then pretty easy to get back into solution.

I imagine this will be less of a problem as we head into the summer but I am working on a solution. I think I know whats happening it's just a matter of figuring out if fixing one thing causes another problem... I don't think it will but more testing is needed.
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I have 3 bottles of ursa that I just checked and they're all gel. Not a big deal ill just warm them up when I go to use them. they were NOT gel the last time I used them which was a few weeks ago. I bought them in mid-March. It's definitely isolated to Ursa, because I have used almost every other Apex product and none have gone to gel.

Not promoting his products, but when I first heard Patrick Arnold talking about Ursolic Acid on the Tim Ferriss show in 2016, he talked a lot about how poor the solubility is and that even the arginine acetate salt he eventually used will never solubilize in water. Perhaps it's the water content of the carrier thats causing it to gel? I used to buy PA's Ur Spray and that also crystallizes over time and clogs up the spray nozzle.

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brick295 said:
I have 3 bottles of ursa that I just checked and they're all gel. Not a big deal ill just warm them up when I go to use them. they were NOT gel the last time I used them which was a few weeks ago. I bought them in mid-March. It's definitely isolated to Ursa, because I have used almost every other Apex product and none have gone to gel.

Not promoting his products, but when I first heard Patrick Arnold talking about Ursolic Acid on the Tim Ferriss show in 2016, he talked a lot about how poor the solubility is and that even the arginine acetate salt he eventually used will never solubilize in water. Perhaps it's the water content of the carrier thats causing it to gel? I used to buy PA's Ur Spray and that also crystallizes over time and clogs up the spray nozzle.

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I think you hit the nail right on the head.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
so i did some testing guys..
test #1= I put one in the fridge.. to let it gel up.. and it appeared solid. couldn't suck any up into the dispenser. i ran it under hot tap water... and it does go back into a gelled liquid and could be sucked up, however the next day... solid again.
test #2= i bathed it in hot hot (not quite boiling) water for several mins.. 10-15.. seems like its stable again and has stayed liquid for several days now.
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Tired this twice once left then in pan for 15 min and they looked great but went solid within a few hrs

Second time let them heat for 20min and it took longer but did gel overnight unfortunately
 
dollar662 said:
Tired this twice once left then in pan for 15 min and they looked great but went solid within a few hrs

Second time let them heat for 20min and it took longer but did gel overnight unfortunately
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where do you store them and whats the regular room temp?
its been about 5 days on the one i was testing.. looks to be slightly gelling at this point, i can still suck up the dose. my house sits right around 73 degrees f.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
where do you store them and whats the regular room temp?
its been about 5 days on the one i was testing.. looks to be slightly gelling at this point, i can still suck up the dose. my house sits right around 73 degrees f.
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In my home office. its high 70s outside here today i keep heat at 67
 
brick295 said:
I have 3 bottles of ursa that I just checked and they're all gel. Not a big deal ill just warm them up when I go to use them. they were NOT gel the last time I used them which was a few weeks ago. I bought them in mid-March. It's definitely isolated to Ursa, because I have used almost every other Apex product and none have gone to gel.

Not promoting his products, but when I first heard Patrick Arnold talking about Ursolic Acid on the Tim Ferriss show in 2016, he talked a lot about how poor the solubility is and that even the arginine acetate salt he eventually used will never solubilize in water. Perhaps it's the water content of the carrier thats causing it to gel? I used to buy PA's Ur Spray and that also crystallizes over time and clogs up the spray nozzle.

Invalid Link Removed
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I have had minor issue with Ursa and adding a very small amount of 90% isopropyl made the solution stay liquid for me. I simply added a little extra volume to each application to account for the lowered concentration.
 
BCseacow83 said:
I have had minor issue with Ursa and adding a very small amount of 90% isopropyl made the solution stay liquid for me. I simply added a little extra volume to each application to account for the lowered concentration.
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sorry if this is a dumb question, but the alcohol won’t diminish the effectiveness?
 
uforce said:
sorry if this is a dumb question, but the alcohol won’t diminish the effectiveness?
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IMO if the quantity is small and you account for the diminshed concentration then no or not enough to notice. Now if you have 30ml URSA and add 120ml isp then yes but I don't think anyone is going to do that. I think I added about 5ml to a bottle that was about 25ml left.

Yes this "waters" down the carrier a bit and hopefully NOS will check in but I believe it to be a minor difference.
 
BCseacow83 said:
IMO if the quantity is small and you account for the diminshed concentration then no or not enough to notice. Now if you have 30ml URSA and add 120ml isp then yes but I don't think anyone is going to do that. I think I added about 5ml to a bottle that was about 25ml left.

Yes this "waters" down the carrier a bit and hopefully NOS will check in but I believe it to be a minor difference.
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The carrier is already made from benzyl alcohol, so I doubt adding some isopropyl alcohol is going to damage the active ingredients
 
BCseacow83 said:
IMO if the quantity is small and you account for the diminshed concentration then no or not enough to notice. Now if you have 30ml URSA and add 120ml isp then yes but I don't think anyone is going to do that. I think I added about 5ml to a bottle that was about 25ml left.

Yes this "waters" down the carrier a bit and hopefully NOS will check in but I believe it to be a minor difference.
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You are correct, sir.
 
test #3: today i will put a partially gelling bottle of ursa in my garage. the temp today will be close to 90 degrees f.
the inside ambient temp of my garage will likely get closer to 100. its uninsulated and the roof is black. I will report the findings later.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
test #3: today i will put a partially gelling bottle of ursa in my garage. the temp today will be close to 90 degrees f.
the inside ambient temp of my garage will likely get closer to 100. its uninsulated and the roof is black. I will report the findings later.
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I did another test last night turned it to a liquid left it in heat for 15min. Put a thermometer in room room was 72 and this morning i had solid gel again. I wonder if heating it to much burned off some of the alcohol?

If it wasn’t for my kids I would just leave them out somewhere but I have to leave them in my office I did turn heat up to see if it helped but it didn’t.

It’s something since the spray bottles as those never gelled on me
 
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lol i just realized i left a bottle of Ursa in my garage.. the test is a fail. it got cold and rainy after that hot day.... i will have to try another test next warm day that comes!~
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
lol i just realized i left a bottle of Ursa in my garage.. the test is a fail. it got cold and rainy after that hot day.... i will have to try another test next warm day that comes!~
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Out of curiosity, what is the condition of that bottle, now?
 
I keep all my Apex products in the same place. Standard indoor temps. All 4 bottles of Ursa from my last order are still looking good, no issues at all. Dienogen from last year looking good as well. But 6 bottles of Triton have started to or have crystallized. First 2 bottles I went through were fine. Looking for some advice. Is it recommend to shake Apex topical products, under normal conditions or when they have crystallized? I appreciate any information.
 
pnuma2 said:
I keep all my Apex products in the same place. Standard indoor temps. All 4 bottles of Ursa from my last order are still looking good, no issues at all. Dienogen from last year looking good as well. But 6 bottles of Triton have started to or have crystallized. First 2 bottles I went through were fine. Looking for some advice. Is it recommend to shake Apex topical products, under normal conditions or when they have crystallized? I appreciate any information.
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Bring a pot of water to a boil
Turn stove off

Fill dropper with compound
Tighten dropper back on bottle
Add bottle for about 10min (submerged up to dropper)

This has worked for me
 
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