Training and personal training at same time

[John Smeton]

Currently , in my life, I work a job as a delivery driver, and started training people with me. My fees are cut in half if they train with me, as they are still learning. Of course, like if its Kristin, who is 5ft4, 160 lbs our weights are going to be different. Its a way to help someone else, pressed for time.

 

[TheMovement]

Is there a question or just you wanting to tell us this?

I actually stopped doing this a long time ago. If someone is paying you for your time then devote that time to them. They can buy you lunch once in awhile if they are just tagging along but if you want clients keep them as that. Anything else isn’t ethical and will lead to issues down the road.

 

[Whisky]

I know a few trainers who do this. Think it works really well when a client is at the intermediate to advanced lifting stage. Imo tbe trainers main role is then programming and motivation with a little advanced technique critique. All of which wouldnt be inhibited (motivation can be improved) by training with the trainer.......

Good stuff bro

 

[MrKleen73]

I think this can be good, aka training with clients but only if you make it of higher value... The delivery should not as point blank in their face, but the idea there is this. "I am the trainer, and a person that you look up to and who motivates you. Working out with me is a privilege, and one I only share my best clientele.

Then it is more of a reward than something you would discount.

That or if asked when or if they can train with you, you explain that is an opportunity that is earned through hard work and is also slightly more expensive as it takes your focus away from yourself during training. Then if they still want it the value is built up for them, and they are getting an "Experience" for their money not just a session.
TheMovement, how is it not ethical? I mean if the communication is open, and it is not looked at or presented as a regular session and the client WANTS to work out with you for their sessions? How is it unethical to do so?

Obviously this wouldn't work in training for a competition or something but in general training one can program around the clients needs while keeping it also applicable to themselves. Is it ideal for the trainers training, no not at all but the client will more than likely get one of the best workouts of their life. Working out with someone I really respect makes me work harder and try to perform better.

 

[TheMovement]

I think this can be good, aka training with clients but only if you make it of higher value... The delivery should not as point blank in their face, but the idea there is this. "I am the trainer, and a person that you look up to and who motivates you. Working out with me is a privilege, and one I only share my best clientele.

Then it is more of a reward than something you would discount.

That or if asked when or if they can train with you, you explain that is an opportunity that is earned through hard work and is also slightly more expensive as it takes your focus away from yourself during training. Then if they still want it the value is built up for them, and they are getting an "Experience" for their money not just a session.
TheMovement, how is it not ethical? I mean if the communication is open, and it is not looked at or presented as a regular session and the client WANTS to work out with you for their sessions? How is it unethical to do so?

Obviously this wouldn't work in training for a competition or something but in general training one can program around the clients needs while keeping it also applicable to themselves. Is it ideal for the trainers training, no not at all but the client will more than likely get one of the best workouts of their life. Working out with someone I really respect makes me work harder and try to perform better.

Then based on that last statment and that alone there should be no charge. If its a reward or privaledge then it was earned by the client. Again no charge. If your a personal trainer and you have 8 clients in a day. You give 2 of them "personal" sessions to work out with you and your going to be gassed in no time. Now how do you really separate the clients of 2017 in categories to decide who has "worked" hard enough? Im telling you its a recipe that just opens doors to hurt feelings and a damaged name.

My personal experience:

I worked for a club as a personal trainer for almost 8 years. Small town and gossip galore at the local fitness center. I had a constant flux of clients within all ranges because of my education and experience (Athletic training and rehabilitation, Sports, Cancer rehab). I got to a road where our prices increased and some clients just wanted to occasionally join me for a session and pay me directly. I tried it but the varying hours from one day to another were rough. I found it hard to tell people no and liked tax free income. After awhile I cut it all out together because I found my older clientele unable to enjoy the same benefits as the college aged population and it honestly wasnt fair in the least. I was watching a stroke survivor pay $50 a session to just walk and allowing other able folks to just pay me.
Down the road the club instituted different rates for different trainers. If you had more than 4 years experience then members where expected to pay $20 more per SESSION. This did not go over well and led to many seasoned trainers either leaving or training under the table. Then there was a huge lawsuit. Trust me when I say ETHICS are different for everyone.

If you are a personal trainer and someone is paying you for your time then that time needs to be spent assessing and safely watching the client throughout the entire agreed upon timeframe. Its ok to do a favor here and there but theres no need to gain from it. Kind of defeats the purpose.

Everyones different, what I value and hold true need not be the rule. It comes down to what you feel right within your character. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[MrKleen73]

Then based on that last statment and that alone there should be no charge. If its a reward or privaledge then it was earned by the client. Again no charge. If your a personal trainer and you have 8 clients in a day. You give 2 of them "personal" sessions to work out with you and your going to be gassed in no time. Now how do you really separate the clients of 2017 in categories to decide who has "worked" hard enough? Im telling you its a recipe that just opens doors to hurt feelings and a damaged name.

My personal experience:

I worked for a club as a personal trainer for almost 8 years. Small town and gossip galore at the local fitness center. I had a constant flux of clients within all ranges because of my education and experience (Athletic training and rehabilitation, Sports, Cancer rehab). I got to a road where our prices increased and some clients just wanted to occasionally join me for a session and pay me directly. I tried it but the varying hours from one day to another were rough. I found it hard to tell people no and liked tax free income. After awhile I cut it all out together because I found my older clientele unable to enjoy the same benefits as the college aged population and it honestly wasnt fair in the least. I was watching a stroke survivor pay $50 a session to just walk and allowing other able folks to just pay me.
Down the road the club instituted different rates for different trainers. If you had more than 4 years experience then members where expected to pay $20 more per SESSION. This did not go over well and led to many seasoned trainers either leaving or training under the table. Then there was a huge lawsuit. Trust me when I say ETHICS are different for everyone.

If you are a personal trainer and someone is paying you for your time then that time needs to be spent assessing and safely watching the client throughout the entire agreed upon timeframe. Its ok to do a favor here and there but theres no need to gain from it. Kind of defeats the purpose.

Everyones different, what I value and hold true need not be the rule. It comes down to what you feel right within your character. Nothing more nothing less.

Very interesting take, and one coming from experience which is why I asked. When I came up in training there was pretty much no management of the process. Like you said quite often we were paid cash under the table. Often we just paid 300 a month to the gym and did whatever we wanted. Then the gyms got in on everything and wouldn't even let us train there unless we worked for them, and you know the initial payscale sucked. I have no idea what the current one is but I can assure you that it is a bit more competitive than it was back then. It is really hard to go from $50-75 a session to getting $12 an hour when training and $7.25 any other time.... So I quit training altogether.

Now I am venturing into the arena of online coaching, and actually contemplated the idea of allowing someone to train with me if occasionally if they wanted to so this was a great time to stumble across this subject. I am not sure if I would say doing it was unethical under the right agreement / circumstance but can see how it could create issues for certain.

As far as people paying more for more qualified trainers, well I completely agree with that. However their results should have to be on par with this, not just a guy who can take tests really well. There is a reason that the best guys charge more, they value their knowledge and experience more. It's the same reason people pay more for them. However I imagine there is a level of success at which a person decides being employed in a gym is not the way to go and branches out on their own. So having more certs and continued education just makes sense.

 

[MrKleen73]

I just re-read and yeah $20 jump just for having 4 years experience... not even based on performance, yeah not good....

 

[John Smeton]

Then based on that last statment and that alone there should be no charge. If its a reward or privaledge then it was earned by the client. Again no charge. If your a personal trainer and you have 8 clients in a day. You give 2 of them "personal" sessions to work out with you and your going to be gassed in no time. Now how do you really separate the clients of 2017 in categories to decide who has "worked" hard enough? Im telling you its a recipe that just opens doors to hurt feelings and a damaged name.

My personal experience:

I worked for a club as a personal trainer for almost 8 years. Small town and gossip galore at the local fitness center. I had a constant flux of clients within all ranges because of my education and experience (Athletic training and rehabilitation, Sports, Cancer rehab). I got to a road where our prices increased and some clients just wanted to occasionally join me for a session and pay me directly. I tried it but the varying hours from one day to another were rough. I found it hard to tell people no and liked tax free income. After awhile I cut it all out together because I found my older clientele unable to enjoy the same benefits as the college aged population and it honestly wasnt fair in the least. I was watching a stroke survivor pay $50 a session to just walk and allowing other able folks to just pay me.
Down the road the club instituted different rates for different trainers. If you had more than 4 years experience then members where expected to pay $20 more per SESSION. This did not go over well and led to many seasoned trainers either leaving or training under the table. Then there was a huge lawsuit. Trust me when I say ETHICS are different for everyone.

If you are a personal trainer and someone is paying you for your time then that time needs to be spent assessing and safely watching the client throughout the entire agreed upon timeframe. Its ok to do a favor here and there but theres no need to gain from it. Kind of defeats the purpose.

Everyones different, what I value and hold true need not be the rule. It comes down to what you feel right within your character. Nothing more nothing less.

Interesting experience you've had. If you work another job, you think its unethical to charge someone to train with you, based on your years and years of knowledge, experience?

 

[MrKleen73]

Interesting experience you've had. If you work another job, you think its unethical to charge someone to train with you, based on your years and years of knowledge, experience?

Now we are asking opinions on other things that for me would vary the answer. If doing it as a business where everyone should be treated equally then maybe not. If you have a full time job, and are doing online coaching on the side and one local person wants to train with you during your training then it is a one off deal, and to me I can see that as being different. However there would have to be a serious conversation about how things were going to go in that scenario. Again, I am not a professional and am in the same boat a s you regarding being more online, crunched for time and wanting to squeeze a little cash out where it can be.

Personally for me there is zero benefit to training with someone who does not push me in some way. So for me to give up some of my training time for them they would need to pay IF they WANTED to train with me when I train. Otherwise they would be an inconvenience, now if I was actually getting something out of training with them then I would not want to charge them for being a good training partner so that would end up balancing itself out sooner or later.

Again, I don't know that it is unethical to do so, in my opinion ethics have to do with intent, as well as having clear and honest communication about the service you are being asked to provide and agree to providing. However I can see how it might cause issues with other clients who may or may not want to do the same if they didn't have the option.

Interestingly enough my views may change a bit. I am contemplating going to 24Hr to train for the first couple of months of the year just to get some more hands on training under my belt it has been so long since I have done the actual hands on personal training. That and see if i can't get myself ahead just a little bit. Plus I can always sell my nutrition plans on the side since 24Hr doesn't provide them.

 

[John Smeton]

Now we are asking opinions on other things that for me would vary the answer. If doing it as a business where everyone should be treated equally then maybe not. If you have a full time job, and are doing online coaching on the side and one local person wants to train with you during your training then it is a one off deal, and to me I can see that as being different. However there would have to be a serious conversation about how things were going to go in that scenario. Again, I am not a professional and am in the same boat a s you regarding being more online, crunched for time and wanting to squeeze a little cash out where it can be.

Personally for me there is zero benefit to training with someone who does not push me in some way. So for me to give up some of my training time for them they would need to pay IF they WANTED to train with me when I train. Otherwise they would be an inconvenience, now if I was actually getting something out of training with them then I would not want to charge them for being a good training partner so that would end up balancing itself out sooner or later.

Again, I don't know that it is unethical to do so, in my opinion ethics have to do with intent, as well as having clear and honest communication about the service you are being asked to provide and agree to providing. However I can see how it might cause issues with other clients who may or may not want to do the same if they didn't have the option.

Interestingly enough my views may change a bit. I am contemplating going to 24Hr to train for the first couple of months of the year just to get some more hands on training under my belt it has been so long since I have done the actual hands on personal training. That and see if i can't get myself ahead just a little bit. Plus I can always sell my nutrition plans on the side since 24Hr doesn't provide them.

Yeah I work 30 hours a week. Then do some repping on here . You make a great point about if someone isnt pushing you , its taking time away from training . Its good to help people, so I can see training them one or two times, like my manager from work, maybe itll help me in other situations at work, if I offer to workout or train him, and use his picture for my social media. Plus its helping him with knowing what to do ie inspiration or motivation

how about someone youre dating lol how about letting them train with you or charge them for training with you?

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah I work 30 hours a week. Then do some repping on here . You make a great point about if someone isnt pushing you , its taking time away from training . Its good to help people, so I can see training them one or two times, like my manager from work, maybe itll help me in other situations at work, if I offer to workout or train him, and use his picture for my social media. Plus its helping him with knowing what to do ie inspiration or motivation

how about someone youre dating lol how about letting them train with you or charge them for training with you?

If their goals are not yours then program their training and let them do it on their own.

Something I intend to get started is starter sessions. IE... I do mostly online but for locals I will offer 1 rotation of training for a set price. Say you ask me for a program with moderate intensity and frequency so I write up a 4 day split. Now you don't have the money to train with me 4 times a week every week, but lets say you have $150 for me to run you through the 4 days. We can do that... So I plan to offer something like this to local clients who want to make sure that they are doing the training as intended. That will of course be on top of the monthly programming fee. Just another way to make some extra money without going into training full time. Plus still work on your one on one coaching skills.

I remember my first personal trainers did this with me and it was honestly life changing at the time. I paid them 120 for my program, and then 120 for the 4 sessions so they could show me exactly how they wanted me to perform everything. It stuck with me as a great value in my mind ever since.

 

[John Smeton]

If their goals are not yours then program their training and let them do it on their own.

Something I intend to get started is starter sessions. IE... I do mostly online but for locals I will offer 1 rotation of training for a set price. Say you ask me for a program with moderate intensity and frequency so I write up a 4 day split. Now you don't have the money to train with me 4 times a week every week, but lets say you have $150 for me to run you through the 4 days. We can do that... So I plan to offer something like this to local clients who want to make sure that they are doing the training as intended. That will of course be on top of the monthly programming fee. Just another way to make some extra money without going into training full time. Plus still work on your one on one coaching skills.

I remember my first personal trainers did this with me and it was honestly life changing at the time. I paid them 120 for my program, and then 120 for the 4 sessions so they could show me exactly how they wanted me to perform everything. It stuck with me as a great value in my mind ever since.

I think its great you're charging more than the average training because you are superior to them in training, nutrition and supplementation.

do you charge for writing out their programs?

Something I did as a pt is give them one sample session and decide if they want to train with me or not. Not anymore. I told my manager that we could train together if I could use his picture on social media, so if he wants to train I kind of cant be an indian giver. I can give him a workout, then ask his goals and write out a plan and charge him for a program.

 

[MrKleen73]

I think its great you're charging more than the average training because you are superior to them in training, nutrition and supplementation.

do you charge for writing out their programs?

Something I did as a pt is give them one sample session and decide if they want to train with me or not. Not anymore. I told my manager that we could train together if I could use his picture on social media, so if he wants to train I kind of cant be an indian giver. I can give him a workout, then ask his goals and write out a plan and charge him for a program.

Currently I charge a monthly fee to program their training and nutrition. If they wanted me to run them through the actual split then it would be a completely separate charge. Now what I might end up doing is offer that as a package initially. Like offer a $25 discount on the training package if they paid for it initially, and if not then it would be full price if they decided to do it after the initial purchase. Right now I am not doing this, it is a service I plan to start offering only to local clients who want the added benefit of knowing they are performing the work as intended.

When it comes to training though I don't really want to just be trading my time for money, so if I start doing more actual training it would be small group training. One of the gyms here has a deal I can pay $400 a month and train as much as I want too. However they set it up there so that it is a $400 a month group training charge, and you workout with people with your same or similar goals. The coach tracks information on each person and advises them on when to do something different than the group. IE more reps, or change exercises due to an injury and the groups are kept to no more than 5 people. It seems to work really well for people who don't have the money or interest to pay for a personal trainer every session but want to be sure they are doing everything correctly and get the motivation and accountability out of it with a lesser investment. For general fitness this works great and is something I am contemplating. At $400 a month if you can train 2 sessions 4 days a week with 4-5 people in each group you have made some nice extra cash. With 10 people total that is 4000-400 for the rental fee so 3600 extra for working an additional 8-12 hours a week is pretty damn slick!!!

 

[John Smeton]

Currently I charge a monthly fee to program their training and nutrition. If they wanted me to run them through the actual split then it would be a completely separate charge. Now what I might end up doing is offer that as a package initially. Like offer a $25 discount on the training package if they paid for it initially, and if not then it would be full price if they decided to do it after the initial purchase. Right now I am not doing this, it is a service I plan to start offering only to local clients who want the added benefit of knowing they are performing the work as intended.

When it comes to training though I don't really want to just be trading my time for money, so if I start doing more actual training it would be small group training. One of the gyms here has a deal I can pay $400 a month and train as much as I want too. However they set it up there so that it is a $400 a month group training charge, and you workout with people with your same or similar goals. The coach tracks information on each person and advises them on when to do something different than the group. IE more reps, or change exercises due to an injury and the groups are kept to no more than 5 people. It seems to work really well for people who don't have the money or interest to pay for a personal trainer every session but want to be sure they are doing everything correctly and get the motivation and accountability out of it with a lesser investment. For general fitness this works great and is something I am contemplating. At $400 a month if you can train 2 sessions 4 days a week with 4-5 people in each group you have made some nice extra cash. With 10 people total that is 4000-400 for the rental fee so 3600 extra for working an additional 8-12 hours a week is pretty damn slick!!!

cool. I think its okay if you don't have much experience to do a plan for free for a friend, that's way it helps you get better

 

[MrKleen73]

cool. I think its okay if you don't have much experience to do a plan for free for a friend, that's way it helps you get better

Oh certainly, there are people I still will draw something up for free, or friends I will send some changes to macros or calories I want them to follow. Now sample meal plans, no way that is going to be free. You have to be pretty close for me to be willing to put that kind of effort in for free. The rest is fun, lining up serving sizes to meet macros is a pain in the ass unless you are using a good software for doing so. I don't have the clientele to justify a tool like that right now.

 

[Whisky]

Currently I charge a monthly fee to program their training and nutrition. If they wanted me to run them through the actual split then it would be a completely separate charge. Now what I might end up doing is offer that as a package initially. Like offer a $25 discount on the training package if they paid for it initially, and if not then it would be full price if they decided to do it after the initial purchase. Right now I am not doing this, it is a service I plan to start offering only to local clients who want the added benefit of knowing they are performing the work as intended.

When it comes to training though I don't really want to just be trading my time for money, so if I start doing more actual training it would be small group training. One of the gyms here has a deal I can pay $400 a month and train as much as I want too. However they set it up there so that it is a $400 a month group training charge, and you workout with people with your same or similar goals. The coach tracks information on each person and advises them on when to do something different than the group. IE more reps, or change exercises due to an injury and the groups are kept to no more than 5 people. It seems to work really well for people who don't have the money or interest to pay for a personal trainer every session but want to be sure they are doing everything correctly and get the motivation and accountability out of it with a lesser investment. For general fitness this works great and is something I am contemplating. At $400 a month if you can train 2 sessions 4 days a week with 4-5 people in each group you have made some nice extra cash. With 10 people total that is 4000-400 for the rental fee so 3600 extra for working an additional 8-12 hours a week is pretty damn slick!!!

In the UK group personal training has been increasing for some years, in most functional fitness/strength & consitioning type facilities it’s far more prevalent than 1-1 or semi private.

Typically the trainer will offer anywhere from 8-16 ‘slots’ per week with clients paying a monthly fee to attend 1/2/3/unlimited sessions per week (fee obviously increases the more sessions but price per session decreases). The busier the trainer is the more slots they offer to ensure clients can normally book in around the time they want.

Basically trainer says these are my times and commits to being there. Clients book in ahead of time so a session can be planned but the key is they pay the monthly whether they attend or not - provides a consistency of income and removes the hassle of trying to arrange bookings each week.

 

[MrKleen73]

In the UK group personal training has been increasing for some years, in most functional fitness/strength & consitioning type facilities it’s far more prevalent than 1-1 or semi private.

Typically the trainer will offer anywhere from 8-16 ‘slots’ per week with clients paying a monthly fee to attend 1/2/3/unlimited sessions per week (fee obviously increases the more sessions but price per session decreases). The busier the trainer is the more slots they offer to ensure clients can normally book in around the time they want.

Basically trainer says these are my times and commits to being there. Clients book in ahead of time so a session can be planned but the key is they pay the monthly whether they attend or not - provides a consistency of income and removes the hassle of trying to arrange bookings each week.

Exactly, and the model is similar at this gym as well, just smaller groups as they are often weight training. I think for the most part cardio is one of those okay go do 30 minutes of LISS, or go do 3 rounds of tabatta with 2 minutes rest between them... You know something they don't need you for.

With this place the max for 400 is 4 sessions a week. However if you don't do 4 then you still pay $400 I think.

 

[Whisky]

Exactly, and the model is similar at this gym as well, just smaller groups as they are often weight training. I think for the most part cardio is one of those okay go do 30 minutes of LISS, or go do 3 rounds of tabatta with 2 minutes rest between them... You know something they don't need you for.

With this place the max for 400 is 4 sessions a week. However if you don't do 4 then you still pay $400 I think.

Yeah loads of boot camp style stuff for the cardio. The group pt is normally either power lifting or oly lifting focused (with some conditioning at the end maybe)....

 

[MrKleen73]

Yeah loads of boot camp style stuff for the cardio. The group pt is normally either power lifting or oly lifting focused (with some conditioning at the end maybe)....

Yeah that type of boot camp style group training is becoming quite big as well. I wouldn't want more than 10 people in a class if there was too much going on with specifics. However if you can give people kind of some rep targets and have them select the weights more people is more manageable.

 

[Whisky]

Yeah that type of boot camp style group training is becoming quite big as well. I wouldn't want more than 10 people in a class if there was too much going on with specifics. However if you can give people kind of some rep targets and have them select the weights more people is more manageable.

At the studio im involved with we have half the unit for bootcamp classes (and people have memberships allowing them to do varying numbers per month) and the other half for pt/gpt.

We pay our trainers to take some of the bootcamp classes (gives variety and allows us to offer 50plus a week) and it means for 8 hrs a week they cover the pt rent. So any pt money they make is theirs.

The guys who do group pt will have 10 in a session sometimes but at most only 2 will be new/newish and need more attention.

The vast majority are clients theyve been working with for years and technic is well drilled, for those guys its much more about the programming, identification of weaknesses, motivation etc

Seems to work ok for us anyway.....

 

[MrKleen73]

At the studio im involved with we have half the unit for bootcamp classes (and people have memberships allowing them to do varying numbers per month) and the other half for pt/gpt.

We pay our trainers to take some of the bootcamp classes (gives variety and allows us to offer 50plus a week) and it means for 8 hrs a week they cover the pt rent. So any pt money they make is theirs.

The guys who do group pt will have 10 in a session sometimes but at most only 2 will be new/newish and need more attention.

The vast majority are clients theyve been working with for years and technic is well drilled, for those guys its much more about the programming, identification of weaknesses, motivation etc

Seems to work ok for us anyway.....

That sounds like a great system and kind of what I had in mind.

 

[TheMovement]

I had something very similar going on and had to leave it alone. Being paid on the hour instead of by the head and man was I losing out on a huge sum of money. I once sold a program, filled it to the brim of 24 members who each paid just over $250, and realized how burnout I could get. Football season in the training room didn't overwork me as hard.

Its great all the PTs in that location can work together like that. We couldn't. Too many egos.

 

[MrKleen73]

I had something very similar going on and had to leave it alone. Being paid on the hour instead of by the head and man was I losing out on a huge sum of money. I once sold a program, filled it to the brim of 24 members who each paid just over $250, and realized how burnout I could get. Football season in the training room didn't overwork me as hard.

Its great all the PTs in that location can work together like that. We couldn't. Too many egos.

What is your current business model if you don't mind me asking? Do you stick with one on one personal training now or how do you do it?