Topic of the Week: Are you worried about the long term effects of Prohormones?

ironhands

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Guys you are awesome and I respect your opinions, however, being on TRT is NOT being natty!
 
Dthcore

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I just get a little bit upset when people take TRT and then they have the audacity to claim they are natty...the nerve!
You’re hard as shet to read. I don’t know if you are trolling, or if I should admire your commitment, or be annoyed by it.

If you’re rolling your provably a really cool dude fawking with people. If not, idk if you have an elevated ego or if you’re just honored/proud.
 

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Oh yeah. Speaking of long term health I know back in many of the guys days like Larry Scott and Arnold Dbol was like candy and most were not aware of liver issues. Now I think we all know. I was wondering short of an all in one product with 30mg dboll a day i understand about 1000mg of milk thistle is good and Nac is good. How much NAC a day? Also anything else if i were buying things seperate?
I would add TUDCA or UDCA first.
 
PoSiTiVeFLoW

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Im off prohormones for good now....tried a comeback using them after years of being natty but it just hasnt worked out for one reason or another.

Maybe ill try Sarms again not sure. But nothing ever beat that first M1-T cycle.
Pretty much at this point too, I have a reserve stash, but it may never get used.
 

jim2509

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Hey what do you mean by hasn’t worked out? As in your body not responding, side effects etc etc..
The last few times its resulted in injury barely weeks into the cycles...im not getting any younger either (44) so it maybe the time to just bin these off now, other than maybe use MK677/Cardarine/ LGD as for their individual benefits...but that is a maybe.

Just ordered Alphamax XT...going to run that for 8 weeks and see if brings any success.
 

Heavychevss

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After being off them for years I haven't seen any real side effects. I did have blood work done the other day and my test was only 200, I thought that was low for a 38yr old in "dencent" shape but not sure if PH's had anything to do with it
This was my frame of mind and had similar numbers but I’m 54yr old. Had always been cautious during cycles watching lipids, blood pressure, etc. However, recently while doing bloodwork in hopes of starting TRT I was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
The majority of my cycles were test based and twenty years ago but with some PH experimentation 3-4 years ago. I certainly believe my activities fast tracked my development of prostate cancer.
 

Nac

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This was my frame of mind and had similar numbers but I’m 54yr old. Had always been cautious during cycles watching lipids, blood pressure, etc. However, recently while doing bloodwork in hopes of starting TRT I was diagnosed with prostate cancer.
The majority of my cycles were test based and twenty years ago but with some PH experimentation 3-4 years ago. I certainly believe my activities fast tracked my development of prostate cancer.
Yikes, you only found out due to bloods for trt? You had no symptoms otherwise?
 
Admin

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Yikes, you only found out due to bloods for trt? You had no symptoms otherwise?
Yikes, you only found out due to bloods for trt? You had no symptoms otherwise?
Have gone through similar "scares", most people who actually find out they have prostate cancer is through bloods and routine checkups when they get older...not through actual symptoms
 

Nac

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Have gone through similar "scares", most people who actually find out they have prostate cancer is through bloods and routine checkups when they get older...not through actual symptoms
When you say "scares", do you mean false-positives?
 
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When you say "scares", do you mean false-positives?
No. Having symptoms that could be associated with prostate issues but not having it...I went through the whole "We need to get a PSA test done" scare....

So talking to the doctors he said most people who get it, don't even have symptoms and the ones who do, still have a 99%+ success rate in treating it.
 
Outofbody

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I just get a little bit upset when people take TRT and then they have the audacity to claim they are natty...the nerve!
MY GOSH... the nerve of them! How DARE they... hehe just a tad dramatic :D Btw we all know there is no such thing as natty in the BBing world.
 

Nac

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No. Having symptoms that could be associated with prostate issues but not having it...I went through the whole "We need to get a PSA test done" scare....

So talking to the doctors he said most people who get it, don't even have symptoms and the ones who do, still have a 99%+ success rate in treating it.
Whats the general testing policy in the US? Here in NZ, they will only test before 45yo if you have family history. Otherwise, no testing til 45. Its that black and white.
 
Toren

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Whatever you do in life, no matter where it takes you, just make sure that you did what you truly wanted to do, and lived each moment the best way you knew how.

I don't ever like to speak in absolutes, as there are very few thing in life that are for certain, but living a life of regret, a life of second-guessing, a life where you worry so much about the destintion that you forget to enjoy the journey, is really just an excuse not to live at all.

Maturity in life comes with the understanding that the decisions we make always have consequences not only for ourselves but also for the ones we keep around us, no matter what. One can only hope that the end result of any one decision we make is nothing more than an opportunity to do it all over again, one decision at a time.

Know what you're doing and why you're doing it. Live it, love it, show others how to do the same.

It's all just perception anyways...
 
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Whats the general testing policy in the US? Here in NZ, they will only test before 45yo if you have family history. Otherwise, no testing til 45. Its that black and white.
Nothing. Up to the doctor and your choice.
 
ironhands

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say no to prohormones, say yes to being natty
 
gphagan1

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Wow. That's a flip phone in your profile pic.
But it’s a natty flip phone.......LOL
Seriously at 55 I’ve been natty and on AAS. AAS can be done intelligently with adequate time off, and proper support supplements. Just like someone can make ignorant choices being natty. Listen to sound solid and proven advice, and it is possible to make healthy choices either way. We just have to be smart, as safe as possible and careful. To be honest TRT has actually helped me live a healthier happier life. I just think guys need to be careful when they are young and be smart and listen to wisdom.
Not bashing anybody, just sharing an old man’s perspective.
 
benjamfzb

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But it’s a natty flip phone.......LOL
Seriously at 55 I’ve been natty and on AAS. AAS can be done intelligently with adequate time off, and proper support supplements. Just like someone can make ignorant choices being natty. Listen to sound solid and proven advice, and it is possible to make healthy choices either way. We just have to be smart, as safe as possible and careful. To be honest TRT has actually helped me live a healthier happier life. I just think guys need to be careful when they are young and be smart and listen to wisdom.
Not bashing anybody, just sharing an old man’s perspective.
Do you actually care about being natural or do you just like how the word "natty" sounds?
 
bruno.camilo

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I am in TRT with Test-E for five years now, and i am worried about my kidneys but mostly my liver.

Sad
 

Heavychevss

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But it’s a natty flip phone.......LOL
Seriously at 55 I’ve been natty and on AAS. AAS can be done intelligently with adequate time off, and proper support supplements. Just like someone can make ignorant choices being natty. Listen to sound solid and proven advice, and it is possible to make healthy choices either way. We just have to be smart, as safe as possible and careful. To be honest TRT has actually helped me live a healthier happier life. I just think guys need to be careful when they are young and be smart and listen to wisdom.
Not bashing anybody, just sharing an old man’s perspective.
When’s the last time you had a PSA rest? JMO - but on borrowed time if over 50.
 

Heavychevss

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Just saying- anyone who prefer’s looking good vs living another 10 years- yeah right.
 
gphagan1

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When’s the last time you had a PSA rest? JMO - but on borrowed time if over 50.
Thanks for your concern, but I get my Prostate checked 2 to 3 times a year and over the last 10 years it is good and healthy. My Doctor also does numerous blood tests throughout the year. I just started TRT at the beginning of 2019, and it has helped with numerous issues for me, but I didn’t want to share to much of my story, because I didn’t want any younger person to take it as that’s the way we all should do it, because we are all different.
I have worked out since playing football in the early 80’s, and stayed natural taking every supplement that seemed to work until my thirties.
At that time I learned about the new “Prohormones” coming out, and like a lot of young men thought they were safe, and tried quite a few, but did not know, at that time, I was taking Designer Steroids. M1T was the strongest and Superdrol was a close second.
I am definitely not as big or built like I was.
I quit all that by my late thirties. Over the years since then I’ve done, what I would call mild cycles. Testosterone I never went over 500 MG, with Tbol as a starter, and sometimes finish with Anavar, and my cycles were never longer than 12 weeks with proper PCT and bloodwork.
I never did too many cycles, 1 or 2 a year, and that would usually be a few years apart. I’ve tried the Andros, and don’t think they’r worth the money. To be honest the best cycle I’ve ran was a 12 week cycle with the
weeks 1-4 Superdrol at 10 mg,
weeks 1-12 Test E at 300 mg a week
1-8 Trest Ace 150 mg ( 50 EOD )
8-12 Anavar at 50 mg
Felt great, and blood work was good. ( Also proper AI on hand)
I know I will do a few more cycles spread out with plenty of recovery over the next few years.
That’s why I said we just have to be smart either way. AAS can definitely be bad when abused, but so can anything, including supplements ( just some of the stimulants in some pre workouts are a good example ).
Sorry guys, I just wanted to respond to someone that seemed concerned for my health. Please don’t take this as a rant.
I don’t condemn anyone that may have done way more. I’ve made plenty of mistakes in my life.....heavy drinker and partied through my teens and twenties and finally was delivered from a pretty hard lifestyle. I have 3 sons, 2 in their early thirties, and my youngest is 29 served in Afghanistan, and he went through a lot. Again sorry for rambling, but I truly just want to help if possible. I really want to see God bless all of you, and us all be healthy.
There are a lot good people on here, really trying to help, and I know there are some that come off wrong, but they are probably just reaching out. I would probably post more that could help, but between work and my wife has MS and in a wheelchair so I just don’t have the time. I do enjoy reading and following a lot of you on here, and I do see more guys trying to help than hurt.
 
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JoePaul39

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Have gone through similar "scares", most people who actually find out they have prostate cancer is through bloods and routine checkups when they get older...not through actual symptoms
What is the main bloodwork test that indicates prostate cancer may be present, a high PSA?
 

JoePaul39

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I’ve seen people in their 60s running cycles. I dunno if I would, likely just GH/slin/test then but that’s it.
If I have good bloodwork and remain to be
blessed in relatively good health I plan to run cycles into my sixties. That is 19 years away.
 
Admin

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OneRepMax1111

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Given the the past 20 years and evolution of ph's, do you worry about the long term effects? Heart issues, liver, kidney, etc...or do you believe its mainly blown out of proportion?
I avoid methyls. Take liver support.
This leaves only worries about sides that affect the body in other wAys like hair loss.
keeping my hair is more important to me than having muscles.
So I spend as much time and energy in finding ways of holding on to those precious follicles.
 

210LBS

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Yes, I am. But it's risk vs reward. So, in order to hedge against some of the risk I run very few cycles and keep them short. I lose some of the reward but hopefully I'm also reducing the risk.
 

JYD

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Thanks for your concern, but I get my Prostate checked 2 to 3 times a year and over the last 10 years it is good and healthy. My Doctor also does numerous blood tests throughout the year. I just started TRT at the beginning of 2019, and it has helped with numerous issues for me, but I didn’t want to share to much of my story, because I didn’t want any younger person to take it as that’s the way we all should do it, because we are all different.
I have worked out since playing football in the early 80’s, and stayed natural taking every supplement that seemed to work until my thirties.
At that time I learned about the new “Prohormones” coming out, and like a lot of young men thought they were safe, and tried quite a few, but did not know, at that time, I was taking Designer Steroids. M1T was the strongest and Superdrol was a close second.
I am definitely not as big or built like I was.
I quit all that by my late thirties. Over the years since then I’ve done, what I would call mild cycles. Testosterone I never went over 500 MG, with Tbol as a starter, and sometimes finish with Anavar, and my cycles were never longer than 12 weeks with proper PCT and bloodwork.
I never did too many cycles, 1 or 2 a year, and that would usually be a few years apart. I’ve tried the Andros, and don’t think they’r worth the money. To be honest the best cycle I’ve ran was a 12 week cycle with the
weeks 1-4 Superdrol at 10 mg,
weeks 1-12 Test E at 300 mg a week
1-8 Trest Ace 150 mg ( 50 EOD )
8-12 Anavar at 50 mg
Felt great, and blood work was good. ( Also proper AI on hand)
I know I will do a few more cycles spread out with plenty of recovery over the next few years.
That’s why I said we just have to be smart either way. AAS can definitely be bad when abused, but so can anything, including supplements ( just some of the stimulants in some pre workouts are a good example ).
Sorry guys, I just wanted to respond to someone that seemed concerned for my health. Please don’t take this as a rant.
I don’t condemn anyone that may have done way more. I’ve made plenty of mistakes in my life.....heavy drinker and partied through my teens and twenties and finally was delivered from a pretty hard lifestyle. I have 3 sons, 2 in their early thirties, and my youngest is 29 served in Afghanistan, and he went through a lot. Again sorry for rambling, but I truly just want to help if possible. I really want to see God bless all of you, and us all be healthy.
There are a lot good people on here, really trying to help, and I know there are some that come off wrong, but they are probably just reaching out. I would probably post more that could help, but between work and my wife has MS and in a wheelchair so I just don’t have the time. I do enjoy reading and following a lot of you on here, and I do see more guys trying to help than hurt.
Hang in there, brother. ...I have prostate cancer in my family, and that is the main reason I will stave off TRT as long as I can. All my friends are on it now in our early to late 40s and NONE are worried about prostate cancer, but me.

My bloodwork is actually decent; I'm in the middle of the range for Total and Free test. But I'm not 21 anymore and starting to feel it. Sleep, sex drive lowering, etc.

Sending you and your family good vibes. Keep fighting. My dad beat his prostate cancer twice.
 
DR.D

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I have actually been meaning to talk to my doc about this and what sides there are compared to exogenous testosterone injections. I know there is give and take with both. Plus I have no clue if my boys would even produce anything at all after years of IM TRT now. I have read people are able to maintain some pretty decent but in range levels this way.
Yeah Kleen, they'd probably come home. It might take awhile and require some finesse, but even with no countermeasures they eventually come back to some degree. At least IME.

The dilemma is choosing between prime health (but with risky exogenous dependence) or settling for far less, but at least remaining physiologically autonomous. I can make equally sound arguments for why they are both the correct choice, lol.
 
bruno.camilo

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i sincerely cant train without exogenous testosterone anymore. I hate that natty look (do u even lift? look).

i also know that im not gonna live as long as nattys though, but i made my choice.
 
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bradleyt1

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i sincerely cant train without endogenous testosterone anymore. I hate that natty look (do u even lift? look).

i also know that im not gonna live as long as nattys though, but i made my choice.
Bro I couldn’t agree more! It’s not that you can’t come off and maintain gains, but honestly there is a totally different look from me even just taking 300mg of test per week.. thinner skin, grainy, bigger veins.. and my delta get a 3D always popped look. If being at 1500 test levels year round is what it takes to have the certain look and muscle fullness and pump then im all for it as long as possible until something doesn’t look to good on blood work.
 

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You’re hard as shet to read. I don’t know if you are trolling, or if I should admire your commitment, or be annoyed by it.

If you’re rolling your provably a really cool dude fawking with people. If not, idk if you have an elevated ego or if you’re just honored/proud.
on the first page he was prolly being funny but being on trt is NOT being natty, its literally TESTOSTERONE, the exact same ones that every single anabolic is an ester of. you get your t levels from 500 to 2000 you put on mass like its nothing, its not your real body, and you still get side effects and need to run pct, just because your doctors give it to you instead of ordering online doesnt mean its magical and " natty ".
 

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