Topic of the Week: Are you worried about the long term effects of Prohormones?

I've done 4 or 5 runs about a year apart. Always use on-cycle and pct... Do I worry, well, it's like like doing extreme sports. You put on protective gear and hope you don't fall, but you recognize the risk.

I'm not super worried about PH.
I'm more concerned about the high amount of tequila I drink 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
joe123! said:
I've done 4 or 5 runs about a year apart. Always use on-cycle and pct... Do I worry, well, it's like like doing extreme sports. You put on protective gear and hope you don't fall, but you recognize the risk.

I'm not super worried about PH.
I'm more concerned about the high amount of tequila I drink 🤷🏻‍♂️
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favorite tequila?
 
Mathb33 said:
Sadly too often people on them illegal supp look like that cute little guy on the natty picture 😁
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If I had known I would become a triathlete in my late 30’s, I’d have stayed the little guy.
even after 2 years off, I can’t get rid of all this muscle. Even though I don’t lift anymore (what we consider lifting) people still think I do.
Starting in 2021 I’ve said fcuk it, back on the sauce.
now to figure out how to deal with calf pumps from running 10 miles.
 
brofessorx said:
If I had known I would become a triathlete in my late 30’s, I’d have stayed the little guy.
even after 2 years off, I can’t get rid of all this muscle. Even though I don’t lift anymore (what we consider lifting) people still think I do.
Starting in 2021 I’ve said fcuk it, back on the sauce.
now to figure out how to deal with calf pumps from running 10 miles.
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So you are lifting again, or just taking gear with the endurance work?
 
Whisky said:
Which time?
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In the wanting to be ifbb pro fellas thread where the whole pinning your quads thing started. You directed it to puccah tho, but there was this competition with her and Mathb. But anyways not important, lol 😄 Thought it was in fresh memory.
 
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KvanH said:
In the wanting to be ifbb pro fellas thread where the whole pinning your quads thing started. You directed it to puccah tho, but there was this competition with her and Mathb. But anyways not important, lol 😄 Thought it was in fresh memory.

The rule always applies; if you have explain your jk, it wasn't a good one.
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I meant which time of math pinning my quads are you referring to bro 😉😂
 
Hyde said:
So you are lifting again, or just taking gear with the endurance work?
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I’m slowly getting back into lifting, but mostly just the ped’s + endurance.
 
brofessorx said:
I’m slowly getting back into lifting, but mostly just the ped’s + endurance.
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I cant imagine what PHs would have done for me when I raced lol
I did a couple of the Hero Crossfit WODs and killed them in no time.... but an enduro MTB race would have been killer.
 
Tkcons said:
Considering many prohormones were pulled off the market because of the toxicity compared to the steroids that eventually came to market while they were legal. Yes, prohormones are kind of bad.
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They were pulled off the market so big pharma could get their hands on them and monopolize the distribution of them.

1ad/4ad, the godfathers of the industry, neither one were methyls thus not liver toxic.

Then we have the clown show of primordial getting raided like a decade ago for having legal/safe "androgens".
 
I'm worried about hidden ingredients like in Alri Jungle Warfare in the past. It ruined my test levels to single digits in 12 weeks and gave me liver issues without knowing it.

Not all natty supplements are natural...

In Ergolog you can see false ingredients and dosages in supplements.
 
Diego Manuel said:
I'm worried about hidden ingredients like in Alri Jungle Warfare in the past. It ruined my test levels to single digits in 12 weeks and gave me liver issues without knowing it.

Not all natty supplements are natural...

In Ergolog you can see false ingredients and dosages in supplements.
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how hard was it to fix your liver
 
I’m day 4 into the mandro the giant gold stack. Been taking 330mg of each/day (1 & 4 Andro) since starting and today my face had turned red and dry and I’ve been feeling nauseous. Think I may skip a day of dosage and then lower my intake to 220mg of each/day and see what happens. Any insight regarding this reaction?
 
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Dubc1231 said:
I’m day 4 into the mandro the giant gold stack. Been taking 330mg of each/day (1 & 4 Andro) since starting and today my face had turned red and dry and I’ve been feeling nauseous. Think I may skip a day of dosage and then lower my intake to 220mg of each/day and see what happens. Any insight regarding this reaction?
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The easiest, most obvious thing to check would be blood pressure.
 
Dubc1231 said:
I’m day 4 into the mandro the giant gold stack. Been taking 330mg of each/day (1 & 4 Andro) since starting and today my face had turned red and dry and I’ve been feeling nauseous. Think I may skip a day of dosage and then lower my intake to 220mg of each/day and see what happens. Any insight regarding this reaction?
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Did you figure out what it was?
 
Admin said:
Given the the past 20 years and evolution of ph's, do you worry about the long term effects? Heart issues, liver, kidney, etc...or do you believe its mainly blown out of proportion?
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No. Truth be told I am an extremely suicidal person, but without the balls (no pun intended) to actually commit suicide. Should I shorten my life span by using PH/DS/Anabolics, so be it.
 
any thoughts on epistaine or dmz as a cycle kickstarter over dbol? since this is about prohormones. Sometimes i wonder if there are the same risks less rewards with PH
 
jtbull said:
any thoughts on epistaine or dmz as a cycle kickstarter over dbol? since this is about prohormones. Sometimes i wonder if there are the same risks less rewards with PH
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Where do you recommend getting ph from?? I took some stuff from viscious labs that was pretty good a while back. Now I’m cycling black stone labs. Not sure how I feel about it yet
 
Good question man. Not sure of that myself these days. Vicious was damn good but THE MAN got funny so lots of research companies that had them are not doing them. Looking myself.
 
jtbull said:
Good question man. Not sure of that myself these days. Vicious was damn good but THE MAN got funny so lots of research companies that had them are not doing them. Looking myself.
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I got a lot of buddies talking about taking sarms but I’ve never seen impressive results. If there’s one place to find them some of the guys here know lol
 
Reps4Vets83 said:
Anyone ever cycled with hi tech pharmaceutical??
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Have not used them, but I'd assume their stuff to be legit. It's just that they have those proprietary blends, where you don't know how much of each compounds you're getting, their products are usually low dosed and pricy, and they use ridiculous naming on their products. All their PH's are Andros, so don't be fooled by the names. And while nothing wrong with Andros, you shouldn't call them "Halodrol", "Superdrol" etc..
 
KvanH said:
Have not used them, but I'd assume their stuff to be legit. It's just that they have those proprietary blends, where you don't know how much of each compounds you're getting, their products are usually low dosed and pricy, and they use ridiculous naming on their products. All their PH's are Andros, so don't be fooled by the names. And while nothing wrong with Andros, you shouldn't call them "Halodrol", "Superdrol" etc..
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🤣🤣🤣 Do u recommend anyone ??
 
Reps4Vets83 said:
🤣🤣🤣 Do u recommend anyone ??
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For the 1- and 4-Andro, if you can still find Iconic Formulations or Alpha gainz for transdermals. Epiandro and Androsterone they still produce. Apex Alchemy also has Epiandro td. IML has td Andros too. For oral Andros, Hard Rock and CEL.

If looking for what many still call PH's, but are actually designer steroids, like Epistane and stuff to that nature, then maybe Supreme labs, if they carry such products? Or Brawn if you'll order from Europe and Immortal Strenght and Immortal Science should be gtg.
 
KvanH said:
For the 1- and 4-Andro, if you can still find Iconic Formulations or Alpha gainz for transdermals. Epiandro and Androsterone they still produce. Apex Alchemy also has Epiandro td. IML has td Andros too. For oral Andros, Hard Rock and CEL.

If looking for what many still call PH's, but are actually designer steroids, like Epistane and stuff to that nature, then maybe Supreme labs, if they carry such products? Or Brawn if you'll order from Europe and Immortal Strenght and Immortal Science should be gtg.
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My man!! Thank you
 
KvanH said:
For the 1- and 4-Andro, if you can still find Iconic Formulations or Alpha gainz for transdermals. Epiandro and Androsterone they still produce. Apex Alchemy also has Epiandro td. IML has td Andros too. For oral Andros, Hard Rock and CEL.

If looking for what many still call PH's, but are actually designer steroids, like Epistane and stuff to that nature, then maybe Supreme labs, if they carry such products? Or Brawn if you'll order from Europe and Immortal Strenght and Immortal Science should be gtg.
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I ordered some immortal stuff. My bank initially flagged it and called me immediately. They were like someone’s making a purchase in Slovakia or somewhere crazy lmao. I was like it’s me let it go through 🤣🤣🤣
 
dvw said:
No. I'll get on trt if needed. I only run one methylated compound a year. Also I run a bridge of clomid the whole time I'm off cycle. I get bloods once per year as well.
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I’m 30 and have been stacking several things once a year for 3 years test,tren,anavar,t3,clen what should I do when I cuycle off to be safe
 
Cd2392 said:
I’m 30 and have been stacking several things once a year for 3 years test,tren,anavar,t3,clen what should I do when I cuycle off to be safe
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You’ve been doing this for 3 years without finding out what to do to be safe?
 
Theres long term risks to everything in this world not just AAS. Sugar, certain food ECT.
Even the air we breath!
 
LaserGoPewPew said:
I took some combo of Superdrol and Dielone a decade ago and I put on a lot of muscle and i felt great and turned into an absolute sex machine.
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I don't think there is any question that stacking SD and dienolone would give anyone freaky gains but I am surprised that it turned you into a sex machine. Dienolone is a lot nicer to you in that department than me.

As far as the OP - of course I am concerned. I'm concerned with long term and short term sides. That's why I waited until my late 20s (28 or 29 I believe) before I ran my first cycle. If you start early like 20, I think the list of long-term side effects becomes longer. The first reason is because you're likely going to be running more cycles and second is that some long-term sides don't matter later in life for a lot of people, like infertility. If you start cycling at 20 and become infertile at 35 that can be a problem for someone. If you start cycling at 30 and become infertile at 45 that is usually less of a problem. So I am a big proponent of waiting until a minimum of 25 to start cycling. I think there is both a physical maturity and psychological maturity that needs to be in place that you just don't see with many people younger.
 
mynewusername said:
and than his balls shrink and he goes off and feels even more like ****, is he gona keep those muscles? no.

its not his real body because the only reason his body is maintaining the bodyfat level and the amount of muscle mass is because he injects test into his ass every night, once he goes off for whatever reason the gains are gone and so is his mental state, and the fat is back. its roids at a lower dosage its still the exact same ****. its testosterone, what dont u get.
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I also feel like people on trt have a significant advantage. There are forums on here where trt users talk about concerns that their rbc count gets too high at times (huge advantage.) endogenous test fluctuates throughout the day, and trt doesnt. Not sure it gets bound up the same way endogenous does either. Im jealous of them because theyre walking around with beet red skin from all of that extra blood and they look way better than me even though theyre moving around tiny dumbbells.

To the topic, maybe those guys will ultimately be healthier than me with that boost long term. That said, there is also the risk of what you dont do when you enhance; for example, some people that have hypogonadism because of say a decent amount of bile stagnation. Plenty of natural ways to address that, but theyll never know they had that problem because they saw a low test value and started trt. Another example might be someone who goes on it because he feels he has so much more needed energy, and whatever is causing the reduced energy never gets addressed
 
thescience said:
I also feel like people on trt have a significant advantage. There are forums on here where trt users talk about concerns that their rbc count gets too high at times (huge advantage.) endogenous test fluctuates throughout the day, and trt doesnt. Not sure it gets bound up the same way endogenous does either. Im jealous of them because theyre walking around with beet red skin from all of that extra blood and they look way better than me even though theyre moving around tiny dumbbells.

To the topic, maybe those guys will ultimately be healthier than me with that boost long term. That said, there is also the risk of what you dont do when you enhance; for example, some people that have hypogonadism because of say a decent amount of bile stagnation. Plenty of natural ways to address that, but theyll never know they had that problem because they saw a low test value and started trt. Another example might be someone who goes on it because he feels he has so much more needed energy, and whatever is causing the reduced energy never gets addressed
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I kind of agree. I feel like when people see low test they automatically jump on it as being the problem of all their issues. To be honest, and I know a lot of people on this board aren't going to want to hear this, but I've had low test in the past and felt pretty fine... and I've had high test and not felt so great. Does that mean I feel better when my test is low and feel like crap when my test is high? No. But my point is, there are a lot more factors at play in determining energy, libido, mood, etc. than only looking at your test numbers.
 
Stacks1 said:
I kind of agree. I feel like when people see low test they automatically jump on it as being the problem of all their issues. To be honest, and I know a lot of people on this board aren't going to want to hear this, but I've had low test in the past and felt pretty fine... and I've had high test and not felt so great. Does that mean I feel better when my test is low and feel like crap when my test is high? No. But my point is, there are a lot more factors at play in determining energy, libido, mood, etc. than only looking at your test numbers.
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You’re right in what you say but the facts remain that a well controlled healthy test is always better than a low one. Now that number changes for everyone. But what I mean is some people will feel better on 600 TT and some on 800. But nobody can claim they feel their best on 295.

sure you can feel off on higher test (I’m not talking Supraphysiological levels but lets say 700ish total test) but in that case if you’re feeling off there’s most likely a reason, estrogen or any other values may be off. If your bloodworks are within range and everything is on point, nobody can say he feels better on low T Than healthy high end range of test levels. That’s just not how the male body works.
 
Mathb33 said:
You’re right in what you say but the facts remain that . Now that number changes for everyone. But what I mean is some people will feel better on 600 TT and some on 800. But nobody can claim they feel their best on 295.

sure you can feel off on higher test (I’m not talking Supraphysiological levels but lets say 700ish total test) but in that case if you’re feeling off there’s most likely a reason, estrogen or any other values may be off. If your bloodworks are within range and everything is on point, nobody can say he feels better on low T Than healthy high end range of test levels. That’s just not how the male body works.
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Of course I agree with what you're saying. I think my point is that a lot of people tend to look at their test numbers and automatically assume that is the driver behind how they feel, which is not always the case. There is obviously much more to our physical health, and of course mental health plays a huge role as well. You can be at 295 and feel better than someone at 700 based on factors outside of just test levels.

I know a guy who never touched PEDs and had bloodwork done and claimed his test levels were going to be way higher than mine because he was never enhanced and felt better than me. Well his test came back below mine around 300 I think. After he saw that he no longer felt well and claimed he started having issues; depression, libido loss, strength loss, etc. Before he had bloodwork done he was perfectly fine though. Is it a coincidence that those issues just hit him all at once at that time... or is it that his test came back lower than he expected and made him depressed and a lot of his issues are actually mental? I can tell you that if he went on TRT he would automatically feel better 20 minutes after the first shot.

I am not saying that test doesn't affect how we feel; we know for a fact that it does. I just think that everyone assumes test is always the culprit, and I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. I think it plays a significant role but I don't think test, estrogen, etc are the only things people should be looking at. But I 100% agree with you that a well controlled healthy test is always better than a low one.
 
Stacks1 said:
Of course I agree with what you're saying. I think my point is that a lot of people tend to look at their test numbers and automatically assume that is the driver behind how they feel, which is not always the case. There is obviously much more to our physical health, and of course mental health plays a huge role as well. You can be at 295 and feel better than someone at 700 based on factors outside of just test levels.

I know a guy who never touched PEDs and had bloodwork done and claimed his test levels were going to be way higher than mine because he was never enhanced and felt better than me. Well his test came back below mine around 300 I think. After he saw that he no longer felt well and claimed he started having issues; depression, libido loss, strength loss, etc. Before he had bloodwork done he was perfectly fine though. Is it a coincidence that those issues just hit him all at once at that time... or is it that his test came back lower than he expected and made him depressed and a lot of his issues are actually mental? I can tell you that if he went on TRT he would automatically feel better 20 minutes after the first shot.

I am not saying that test doesn't affect how we feel; we know for a fact that it does. I just think that everyone assumes test is always the culprit, and I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. I think it plays a significant role but I don't think test, estrogen, etc are the only things people should be looking at. But I 100% agree with you that a well controlled healthy test is always better than a low one.
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I agree :)
 
Stacks1 said:
Of course I agree with what you're saying. I think my point is that a lot of people tend to look at their test numbers and automatically assume that is the driver behind how they feel, which is not always the case. There is obviously much more to our physical health, and of course mental health plays a huge role as well. You can be at 295 and feel better than someone at 700 based on factors outside of just test levels.

I know a guy who never touched PEDs and had bloodwork done and claimed his test levels were going to be way higher than mine because he was never enhanced and felt better than me. Well his test came back below mine around 300 I think. After he saw that he no longer felt well and claimed he started having issues; depression, libido loss, strength loss, etc. Before he had bloodwork done he was perfectly fine though. Is it a coincidence that those issues just hit him all at once at that time... or is it that his test came back lower than he expected and made him depressed and a lot of his issues are actually mental? I can tell you that if he went on TRT he would automatically feel better 20 minutes after the first shot.

I am not saying that test doesn't affect how we feel; we know for a fact that it does. I just think that everyone assumes test is always the culprit, and I don't know if I necessarily agree with that. I think it plays a significant role but I don't think test, estrogen, etc are the only things people should be looking at. But I 100% agree with you that a well controlled healthy test is always better than a low one.
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I think below 400 and youre at risk for heart issues.
 
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