Tongkat Ali

brundel said:
THis is the truth.
THere is no standard by which 200:1 is measured. Basically a company can just say it and there is no way to dis prove it aside from chemical testing.
Ill hold mine up to ANY tongkat on the market with regards to quality, strength and effect.
THe price is as good as it gets as well.
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Have to give credit where credit is due and Viron is a great tongkat product.
 
brundel said:
THis is the truth.
THere is no standard by which 200:1 is measured. Basically a company can just say it and there is no way to dis prove it aside from chemical testing.
Ill hold mine up to ANY tongkat on the market with regards to quality, strength and effect.
THe price is as good as it gets as well.
Click to expand...

1: i agree companies use those standards to sell more and almost no one would ask for lab test/quality

2. But i have seen one company showing me lab test results and i am more than happy.

3. ahelu.com is nothing than bull****.
Serge Kreutz is a big clown and no need to be rocket scientist to find out he is a big scam
 
i would use viron but what scares me is the boron, from what I've read boron effects DHT and dht relates to balding... with a bald father and 2 bald grandfathers and a thinning hairline the dh raise scares me
 
rowz4broz said:
i would use viron but what scares me is the boron, from what I've read boron effects DHT and dht relates to balding... with a bald father and 2 bald grandfathers and a thinning hairline the dh raise scares me
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Well as you maybe know, as we get older, we get more of 5 Alpha Reductase , which convert T to DHT.

No need to avoid Viron if you want to try it
 
so correct me if I'm wrong but, what you saying is that Viron (although it raises dht) will not have any impact on hair issues ?
 
rowz4broz said:
so correct me if I'm wrong but, what you saying is that Viron (although it raises dht) will not have any impact on hair issues ?
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More DHT = bigger risk for baldbess BUT..
As I know boron has minimal impact on serum DHT compared to increase free test levels etc
(Statistically Significant, p-value < 0.05)
"No significant influences on serum DHT noted"
 
ELROCK said:
5 days a week 2 days off
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If someone want to run 8 weeks then I Would say TA (found in Viron) could be taken everyday, but if the idea is to run months after months (non stop)then 5 days on and 2 days off would be great way to take it
 
kisaj said:
Definitely want to cycle it. 5/2 is what a lot of people do.
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I really see no point of cycling it like that if the goal is just 8 weeks usage. But for those who want to take it for hypogonads then a run like 5 days on and 2 days off or even 10 days on and 2-3 days off year around would be good
 
I have a bottle of tongkat Ali, but haven't taken it due to my current PH cycle. can I take tongkat Ali during pct or during my natty cycle?
 
so just to clarify, this can be taken year round, but only if following the 5 on, 2 off protocol?
 
I have been taking TA many times and as i said there is no need to take any days off if the goal is short cycle as 6-8 weeks.
there is no evidence which can prove 5 days on and 2 days off working better than taking it everyday (8 week as example)
Why brands suggest those small breaks is to avoid body get used to a ingredient which could lead to less effectiveness. But many times its just pointless IMO
 
jgntyce said:
so just to clarify, this can be taken year round, but only if following the 5 on, 2 off protocol?
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Correct

5 days on and 2 days off gives you 40% break from the product.
Its like you run it for 60 days and taking a break foe 24 days .

But honestly is it not sure if TA need to be cycled at all. Cycling from long run is to:

-mininize sides (if it is any)
-to avoid body getting used to the ingredient
 
jgntyce said:
so just to clarify, this can be taken year round, but only if following the 5 on, 2 off protocol?
Click to expand...

Yes you can run it year round.
You dont HAVE to follow a 5/2 protocol. This is just the method which seems to work best for most people.
 
Danes said:
Correct

5 days on and 2 days off gives you 40% break from the product.
Its like you run it for 60 days and taking a break foe 24 days .

But honestly is it not sure if TA need to be cycled at all. Cycling from long run is to:

-mininize sides (if it is any)
-to avoid body getting used to the ingredient
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brundel said:
Yes you can run it year round.
You dont HAVE to follow a 5/2 protocol. This is just the method which seems to work best for most people.
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Question for both.How do you both run TA and do your run it year round?
 
koi1214 said:
Question for both.How do you both run TA and do your run it year round?
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Dosage REALLY depends on consumer.
600-1200mg would be a great dosage but it can be taken at higher dosage as long you dont get any sides such as feeling restless and insomnia.

I am thinking about running it year around with 10 days on and 2 days off yes

I was taking 1200mg the best quality TA you can find and i am going to do the same soon
 
For me Viron I feel it even taking just 1 capsule 2 days on - 1 day off - 2 days on - 2 days off which is same as 4 days on/3 days off the way kisaj takes it.

This way 1 bottle of Viron can last 15 weeks so almost 4 months which comes down to around $10/month which you can't beat with any other OTC on the market that not work so effectively and for probably 3x the price.

Sometimes you feel more effect on days off with Tongkat then on days that you take it so I prefer not taking it every day.

But I also start to feel a bit nipple itching after few days so I like to combine it with AI - now with formestane gone I think many of us will be waiting on brundel to release new AI.
 
ahh123 said:
But I also start to feel a bit nipple itching after few days so I like to combine it with AI - now with formestane gone I think many of us will be waiting on brundel to release new AI.
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You get nipple itching from viron just after couple of days?
I really dont know if I should laugh or cry on this one!
You believe itching is a sign of elevated estrogen due to elevated T levels?

First of all, even some of strongest wet AAS would not give you itchy nipples after couple of days and secondly there is nothing that could give you itchy nipples found in Viron

Viron contain TA and boron and here is the deal:

Boron:
Copy from one study:
10g Boron for 6 days was able to reduce estrogen without infuencing total androgen status

TA:
-inhibiting estrogen receptors
-13α,21-dihydroeurycomanone with eurycomanone from Eurycoma longifolia and their anti-estrogenic activity using the uterotrophic assay

So my answer is, your itchy nipples are not due to Viron
 
I tried Viron on many occasions and it didn't do anything for me. I was hoping for the libido increase but I unfortunately got nothing. The only strange thing I got was my allergies got out of control (allergic hay-fever) while on Viron and then when I stop it gauges back down. Not sure wether this correlates

Tried dosing 2x ED, 1x off day and many other dosages but none of them seemed to do much for me. Must be a non responder!
 
I've heard quite a few people mention nipple sensitivity from viron.
More than one within the first week. This is why I recommended formeron with it.
Soon we will have another blr ai to take up the place of formeron.
 
Personaly i have heard many nipple itching stories around..some people got it even from ZMA after just couple of days... lol
 
koi1214 said:
Can you explain this?
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If you read tongkat users feedback this is also something few people report.

This could be explain in a way that while somebody take tongkat for few days this cause body to react with increased free testosterone that already create effect that you feel but on off days this might not be enough to cause negative feedback loophole to get triggered.

Or even cause HPTA axis stimulation via tongkat's possible effect to increase LH - that signal your own body to make more testosterone in testicles.

So some people experience just that - off days even more effect (due to rise in total testosterone) that they feel compared to on days effect (rise in free testosterone).

This explanation could be off or even wrong but it's how me and few others reported to feel when taking tongkat.

Just cause some people or even 90% of tongkat users not experience this it doesn't mean it doesn't happen for some users.
 
ahh123 said:
If you read tongkat users feedback this is also something few people report.

This could be explain in a way that while somebody take tongkat for few days this cause body to react with increased free testosterone that already create effect that you feel but on off days this might not be enough to cause negative feedback loophole to get triggered.

Or even cause HPTA axis stimulation via tongkat's possible effect to increase LH - that signal your own body to make more testosterone in testicles.

So some people experience just that - off days even more effect (due to rise in total testosterone) that they feel compared to on days effect (rise in free testosterone).

This explanation could be off or even wrong but it's how me and few others reported to feel when taking tongkat.

Just cause some people or even 90% of tongkat users not experience this it doesn't mean it doesn't happen for some users.
Click to expand...

I am NOT bashing Viron and idea of TA and boron is not bad at all but lets be realistic here.

Tongkat Ali would NEVER give anyone ichy nipples! And deff not after couple of days of usage. You will not feel that even on anadrol (strongest oral AAS) after couple of days.
like i said, i have heard people getting ichy nipples from ZMA.

Understanding how TA works and how quassinoids (diterpenoids found in TA) such as 13alpha(21)epoxyeurycomanone, eurycomanone , 13alpha,21dihydroeurycomanone and eurycomanol stimulates T production and have SERM properties you will totaly understand its IMPOSSIBlE to get ichy nipples from TA.

I bet your problem is from:
Another supplements and maybe it could be prolactin problems but not caused by TA
 
Itchy nipples I would not even consider to be gyno symptoms in the first place. That's just the skin on or around the nipples being exposed to some sort of irritant let that be physical irritant or even just a change in the weather.
 
In an article published on the website of the world's foremost scientific journal, Nature, possible side effects of tongkat

ali (Eurycoma longifolia) were listed as "a light headache, a slight fever or even a rash" for a few days. Referred-to

results were "increased sexual desire, enhanced performance and general well-being".

Scientific journal Nature on tongkat ali side effects

As usually is the case with scientific articles, a payment is required to read the full article. However, an abstract can be

read for free on the Nature website here:
 
Lighthouse90S said:
In an article published on the website of the world's foremost scientific journal, Nature, possible side effects of tongkat

ali (Eurycoma longifolia) were listed as "a light headache, a slight fever or even a rash" for a few days. Referred-to

results were "increased sexual desire, enhanced performance and general well-being".

Scientific journal Nature on tongkat ali side effects

As usually is the case with scientific articles, a payment is required to read the full article. However, an abstract can be

read for free on the Nature website here:
Click to expand...


Strong first post :D
 
horizons said:
I tried Viron on many occasions and it didn't do anything for me. I was hoping for the libido increase but I unfortunately got nothing. The only strange thing I got was my allergies got out of control (allergic hay-fever) while on Viron and then when I stop it gauges back down. Not sure wether this correlates

Tried dosing 2x ED, 1x off day and many other dosages but none of them seemed to do much for me. Must be a non responder!
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What i noticed from viron was a libido increase and more general energy.But unfortunately no strength increase in the gym for me.
 
uubiduu said:
What i noticed from viron was a libido increase and more general energy.But unfortunately no strength increase in the gym for me.
Click to expand...

Actually thats great.
Honestly a good test booster will not give you any strength and size directly. It will NEVER elevate your T levels that will directly lead to size and strength.
But indirectly yes.

Lets say it boost your T levels from 10 nmol/L to 14. Thats 40% increase. Sounds good? Ofcourse it is not bad but you will just get some better libido and maybe nore energy (well being).
If you feel right and have good energy , you will preform better in the gym and in the bed (better libido).
It can increase apetitte (eating more of good food will help you put on the size) etc..

So you can get gains indirectly:
 
Danes said:
Actually thats great.
Honestly a good test booster will not give you any strength and size directly. It will NEVER elevate your T levels that will directly lead to size and strength.
But indirectly yes.

Lets say it boost your T levels from 10 nmol/L to 14. Thats 40% increase. Sounds good? Ofcourse it is not but you will just get some better libido and maybe nore energy (well being).
If you feel right and have good energy , you will preform better in the gym and in the bed (better libido).
It can increase apetitte etc..

So you can get gains indirectly:
Click to expand...

Exactly! Personally I love test boosters for these reasons. The real reason why so many people poo poo all over them is because their expectations are unrealistic. Well that and the marketing claims for them are so ridiculous lol.
 
ahh123 said:
If you read tongkat users feedback this is also something few people report.

This could be explain in a way that while somebody take tongkat for few days this cause body to react with increased free testosterone that already create effect that you feel but on off days this might not be enough to cause negative feedback loophole to get triggered.

Or even cause HPTA axis stimulation via tongkat's possible effect to increase LH - that signal your own body to make more testosterone in testicles.

So some people experience just that - off days even more effect (due to rise in total testosterone) that they feel compared to on days effect (rise in free testosterone).

This explanation could be off or even wrong but it's how me and few others reported to feel when taking tongkat.

Just cause some people or even 90% of tongkat users not experience this it doesn't mean it doesn't happen for some users.
Click to expand...
I've used pure Tong Kat a number of times over the years and some brands were better than others but I always liked
to dose it 5 days on and 2 days off and once I got into the 2nd week I would feel the effects really strong the first 3 days
of the 2nd week then it would taper for the next 2 days but when I took the two days off I would really feel it on the off days.
Your body builds a tolerance to TA very fast that's why for me 5 on 2 off works well but again it's gotta be a quality extract of TA.
 
totalpackage said:
I've used pure Tong Kat a number of times over the years and some brands were better than others but I always liked
to dose it 5 days on and 2 days off and once I got into the 2nd week I would feel the effects really strong the first 3 days
of the 2nd week then it would taper for the next 2 days but when I took the two days off I would really feel it on the off days.
Your body builds a tolerance to TA very fast that's why for me 5 on 2 off works well but again it's gotta be a quality extract of TA.
Click to expand...

can you mention some of your sources for pure tongkat
 
How does the Tongkat in Viron compare to the standardized EuryGold extract that's in Bioforge? To me Bioforge is the benchmark TA product since it comes with Shilajit and Ashwagandha.
 
hpnawtik said:
How does the Tongkat in Viron compare to the standardized EuryGold extract that's in Bioforge? To me Bioforge is the benchmark TA product since it comes with Shilajit and Ashwagandha.
Click to expand...
BioForge was number 1 of testbooster.
 
hpnawtik said:
How does the Tongkat in Viron compare to the standardized EuryGold extract that's in Bioforge? To me Bioforge is the benchmark TA product since it comes with Shilajit and Ashwagandha.
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I remember reading on other board , that Biotivas raws are not that good and they been using inferior extracts to what is claimed on the label.

Couple years ago i was running bioforge 2 bottles and it was ok for me. Nothing close to stellar feedback this product received.

Now I just ordered a bottle of Viron. hope it wil deliver, cause feedbacks are good.
Plus the price is good for two month run. Even if I will get only good libido boost , I wil be happy with the product.
 
Danes said:
You get nipple itching from viron just after couple of days?
I really dont know if I should laugh or cry on this one!
You believe itching is a sign of elevated estrogen due to elevated T levels?

First of all, even some of strongest wet AAS would not give you itchy nipples after couple of days and secondly there is nothing that could give you itchy nipples found in Viron

Viron contain TA and boron and here is the deal:

Boron:
Copy from one study:
10g Boron for 6 days was able to reduce estrogen without infuencing total androgen status

TA:
-inhibiting estrogen receptors
-13α,21-dihydroeurycomanone with eurycomanone from Eurycoma longifolia and their anti-estrogenic activity using the uterotrophic assay

So my answer is, your itchy nipples are not due to Viron
Click to expand...


there is also a study that showed boron increased estrogen in the range for 50% (i think that is the percentage).
 
abudabu said:
I remember reading on other board , that Biotivas raws are not that good and they been using inferior extracts to what is claimed on the label. Couple years ago i was running bioforge 2 bottles and it was ok for me. Nothing close to stellar feedback this product received. Now I just ordered a bottle of Viron. hope it wil deliver, cause feedbacks are good. Plus the price is good for two month run. Even if I will get only good libido boost , I wil be happy with the product.
Click to expand...

I guarantee you will love viron.

Amazing product. By far the Most potent.

Bottle sure lasts a while.
 
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