Tomatidine (potent natural anabolic?)

Danes said:
Agreed :) yes I will let you and other know how it goes. Antaeus Labs Hydra Head 6 seems also damn good
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I have heard that antaeus labs has quality stuff but pricey...never pulled the trigger because of scarcity of reviews.
 
thebigt said:
I have heard that antaeus labs has quality stuff but pricey...never pulled the trigger because of scarcity of reviews.
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Their Tomatidine supplement is definitely pricey if you run it at anymore than 2 caps a day! Which depending on how well the enhanced absorption is may or may not be necessary it seems.
 
rascal14 said:
Their Tomatidine supplement is definitely pricey if you run it at anymore than 2 caps a day! Which depending on how well the enhanced absorption is may or may not be necessary it seems.
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After BAIBA, I'd need a *lot* of unbiased data before I'd try it at the current SKU pricing. I knew there was no human data on BAIBA either, but even the high price of $45 still wasn't *that* high compared to this :D
 
These guys are big into Tomatidine. Owned by the guy who did the major study on Tomatidine and ATF-4 suppression - Christopher Adams, MD, PhD, University of Iowa Professor. Studies need to be done in healthy, young, non-muscle losing mice next, and then in both old people, and finally, young athletes.

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mmorso said:
It's in kings blood right? I'm finally getting my order of KB tomorrow... hopefully it works.. I feel like dog sh1t and just finished PCT
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KB does contain Primavie Shilajit. Kind of disappointed that they dosed everything so well but skimped out on the Shilajit dose. It should have been in the 400 mg range.
 
NoAddedHmones said:
wut?

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He may be referencing this study that used 250mg 2x daily and increased total testosterone, free testosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone in healthy volunteers:
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There's nothing wrong with 200mg, and you could always add more if you wanted.
 
muscleupcrohn said:
He may be referencing this study that used 250mg 2x daily and increased total testosterone, free testosterone and dehydroepiandrosterone in healthy volunteers:
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There's nothing wrong with 200mg, and you could always add more if you wanted.
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Well no, he would have said 500mg if he was referencing that. But either way, it is an effective dosage.
 
My own experience more so than the research as I have taken many Shilajit products. Jarrow Primavie, TestoPro Xt, Dragon Labs Shilajit, and of course Bioforge. Not a big deal, I have planned to add some Primavie while running KB to further enhance the formula.
 
I seem to recall a post stating that the person that formulated BioForge is the one who now formulates all the OL products...or at least KB. Is this true?
 
Ricky10 said:
I seem to recall a post stating that the person that formulated BioForge is the one who now formulates all the OL products...or at least KB. Is this true?
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He (xtyler/thehuge) is one of a team. Noaddedhmones is also a co-formulator on that OL R&D team.
 
rascal14 said:
Their Tomatidine supplement is definitely pricey if you run it at anymore than 2 caps a day! Which depending on how well the enhanced absorption is may or may not be necessary it seems.
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might be a good idea for them to run a limited time introductory sale at cost or even below....a lot of guys[me]would be more inclined to try and if it put up good results would not be so hesitant to shell out the bucks for another run-besides the word of mouth it would create....just my .02.
 
ordered 100 grams 98 % tomatidine and will have it 3rd party tested here in the netherlands. will update you guys about the results.
 
This is in the me AL product
 
Danes said:
This cant be cheap
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You'd be suprised sir! Anyways, people said the same about 60 % icariin. World A.B.S. is selling 60 % icariin for 70 US dollars/ 90 capsule bottle = 27 grams. I bought 2 kgs (= 2000 grams) 60 % icariin for 350 US dollars and had it 3rd party tested, confirming the 60 % (the last batch was actually 61,8 %). Don't know why A.B.S. is asking 70 US dollars for a bottle. You can sell it for 10 US dollars/bottle and still make a HUGE profit from it.
 
Imeniaan said:
ordered 100 grams 98 % tomatidine and will have it 3rd party tested here in the netherlands. will update you guys about the results.
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Respectfully, "98% Tomatidine" doesn't exist.

Look at the material from Sigma, Enzo, EMD Millipore, and Cayman. It's all, without exception, "85%+", "90%+". Not even those companies -- which charge hundreds of dollars for 100mg, and which always sell the highest purities they can get their hands on -- claim 98%. Not even close.

Our extraction closed in on 95%. Final purity was 94.6%. We've already posted the test results, if I recall correctly. The other 5.4% consists of a methylated tomatidine analog, at 4.7%, and an oxygenated tomatidine analog, at 0.7% -- these natural variants cannot easily be separated from tomatidine.

We've tested the material from those Chinese vendors that have recently popped-up. If you're lucky, you're going to get 100g of diosgenin. Otherwise, it'll be something even less useful, less valuable. That they're even claiming 98% purity is something of a joke; shows how little they know about the compound. We're working on getting them de-listed from Alibaba on account of fraud.

Anyway, if you'd like, I'll test some of that material for you for free. I'd also be willing to place a wager on the results. What odds would you like?
 
JakeAntaeus said:
Respectfully, "98% Tomatidine" doesn't exist.

Look at the material from Sigma, Enzo, EMD Millipore, and Cayman. It's all, without exception, "85%+", "90%+". Not even those companies -- which charge hundreds of dollars for 100mg, and which always sell the highest purities they can get their hands on -- claim 98%. Not even close.

Our extraction closed in on 95%. Final purity was 94.6%. We've already posted the test results, if I recall correctly. The other 5.4% consists of a methylated tomatidine analog, at 4.7%, and an oxygenated tomatidine analog, at 0.7% -- these natural variants cannot easily be separated from tomatidine.

We've tested the material from those Chinese vendors that have recently popped-up. If you're lucky, you're going to get 100g of diosgenin. Otherwise, it'll be something even less useful, less valuable. That they're even claiming 98% purity is something of a joke; shows how little they know about the compound. We're working on getting them de-listed from Alibaba on account of fraud.

Anyway, if you'd like, I'll test some of that material for you for free. I'd also be willing to place a wager on the results. What odds would you like?
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I know exactly how those vendors are trying to fool. Claiming to have 98% HPLC purity etc. When 3rd part testing, it gets back as MAX 50% UV
 
Danes said:
I know exactly how those vendors are trying to fool. Claiming to have 98% HPLC purity etc. When 3rd part testing, it gets back as MAX 50% UV
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have you started it yet? I am curious for feedback!!!
 
I'm hopeful for any non hormonal anabolic, but...

Left unsaid here is that the effective human dose equivalent is .5g or 500mg/day*. Given that, how is the recommended dose of this product (100mg/day of "tomatodine") going to work??

To be fair, I ordered a bottle to give it run and will report back here..

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Mixelflick said:
I'm hopeful for any non hormonal anabolic, but...

Left unsaid here is that the effective human dose equivalent is .5g or 500mg/day*. Given that, how is the recommended dose of this product (100mg/day of "tomatodine") going to work??

To be fair, I ordered a bottle to give it run and will report back here..

* Invalid Link Removed
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what delivery method are you using?
 
Mixelflick said:
I'm hopeful for any non hormonal anabolic, but...

Left unsaid here is that the effective human dose equivalent is .5g or 500mg/day*. Given that, how is the recommended dose of this product (100mg/day of "tomatodine") going to work??

To be fair, I ordered a bottle to give it run and will report back here..

* Invalid Link Removed
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I think its huge difference between plain Tomatidine and bonding/complexing to Absorption/bioavailability enchancers (in this case Shilajit).
Its worth trying
 
Mixelflick said:
I'm hopeful for any non hormonal anabolic, but...

Left unsaid here is that the effective human dose equivalent is .5g or 500mg/day*. Given that, how is the recommended dose of this product (100mg/day of "tomatodine") going to work??

To be fair, I ordered a bottle to give it run and will report back here..

* Invalid Link Removed
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Shilajit complexing is apparently better than other complexing methods.
 
Danes said:
I think its huge difference between plain Tomatidine and bonding to Absorption/bioavailability enchancers (in this case Shilajit).
Its worth trying
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we shall see!!!
 
Mixelflick said:
I'm hopeful for any non hormonal anabolic, but...

Left unsaid here is that the effective human dose equivalent is .5g or 500mg/day*. Given that, how is the recommended dose of this product (100mg/day of "tomatodine") going to work??

To be fair, I ordered a bottle to give it run and will report back here..
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First of all, thanks for the support. It's truly appreciated, and I would really like to hear how the product works out for you, so I'd be much obliged if you would take the time to share your honest feedback.

With that out of the way, a couple of comments on dosing:

-That it was effective at a .5g HED does not imply that it would be ineffective at a lower dose. A dose-response curve has simply not been established. Figures 8 & 9 from the study you referenced represent experiments done at a lower dose (approx 150-200mg HED), via IP injection, and the results attained at that lower dose were very encouraging.

-The tomatidine-shilajit complex is practically an order of magnitude more water-soluble than plain tomatidine. It is very likely that this translates to much better bioavaiability and potency. I wouldn't be surprised at all if bioavailability gains are significantly greater than 5x.

...PMID 23302635 may be worth looking at. (I still can't post links.) Diosgenin is, like tomatidine, essentially insoluble in water -- and the two molecules are also similar in terms of structure and molecular weight. We've also noticed similarities in absolute solubility between shilajit complexes and cyclodextrin complexes. With all that said, diosgenin-beta-cyclodextrin displayed nearly 10x better oral bioavailablity than plain diosgenin.

We've tested this ingredient at various dose levels -- though admittedly not ultra rigorously -- and the 100mg/day dose was the sweet spot. But I don't attach too much weight to that. At this point, I simply look forward to seeing feedback from customers.

Thanks again!
 
JakeAntaeus said:
First of all, thanks for the support. It's truly appreciated, and I would really like to hear how the product works out for you, so I'd be much obliged if you would take the time to share your honest feedback.

With that out of the way, a couple of comments on dosing:

-That it was effective at a .5g HED does not imply that it would be ineffective at a lower dose. A dose-response curve has simply not been established. Figures 8 & 9 from the study you referenced represent experiments done at a lower dose (approx 150-200mg HED), via IP injection, and the results attained at that lower dose were very encouraging.

-The tomatidine-shilajit complex is practically an order of magnitude more water-soluble than plain tomatidine. It is very likely that this translates to much better bioavaiability and potency. I wouldn't be surprised at all if bioavailability gains are significantly greater than 5x.

...PMID 23302635 may be worth looking at. (I still can't post links.) Diosgenin is, like tomatidine, essentially insoluble in water -- and the two molecules are also similar in terms of structure and molecular weight. We've also noticed similarities in absolute solubility between shilajit complexes and cyclodextrin complexes. With all that said, diosgenin-beta-cyclodextrin displayed nearly 10x better oral bioavailablity than plain diosgenin.

We've tested this ingredient at various dose levels -- though admittedly not ultra rigorously -- and the 100mg/day dose was the sweet spot. But I don't attach too much weight to that. At this point, I simply look forward to seeing feedback from customers.

Thanks again!
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I am getting mine soon and I will be honest with my run
 
JakeAntaeus said:
First of all, thanks for the support. It's truly appreciated, and I would really like to hear how the product works out for you, so I'd be much obliged if you would take the time to share your honest feedback.

With that out of the way, a couple of comments on dosing:

-That it was effective at a .5g HED does not imply that it would be ineffective at a lower dose. A dose-response curve has simply not been established. Figures 8 & 9 from the study you referenced represent experiments done at a lower dose (approx 150-200mg HED), via IP injection, and the results attained at that lower dose were very encouraging.

-The tomatidine-shilajit complex is practically an order of magnitude more water-soluble than plain tomatidine. It is very likely that this translates to much better bioavaiability and potency. I wouldn't be surprised at all if bioavailability gains are significantly greater than 5x.

...PMID 23302635 may be worth looking at. (I still can't post links.) Diosgenin is, like tomatidine, essentially insoluble in water -- and the two molecules are also similar in terms of structure and molecular weight. We've also noticed similarities in absolute solubility between shilajit complexes and cyclodextrin complexes. With all that said, diosgenin-beta-cyclodextrin displayed nearly 10x better oral bioavailablity than plain diosgenin.

We've tested this ingredient at various dose levels -- though admittedly not ultra rigorously -- and the 100mg/day dose was the sweet spot. But I don't attach too much weight to that. At this point, I simply look forward to seeing feedback from customers.

Thanks again!
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This post has convinced me to jump on this later on this year. Need to do a solo Or1gin run first. Thanks!
 
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