To Infinity.... and Beyond!

Hyde said:
Epicatechin lowers my blood sugar faster in training.
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That is sorta the sensation that was going through my head and a possibility but I'm shocked at how fast it would occur. I had carbed up about 10:30am and started lifting about 11:15am. I had the shakes on my set of 10 OHP right out of the gate and that's not heavy weight for me. I dosed the apex products around 9:30am
 
Hyde said:
Epicatechin lowers my blood sugar faster in training.
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which epicatechin products have you used? first few times I used it I thought i noticed better pumps but nothing negative, but since taking it with the triton prewo I noticed more of these symptoms so while I can't tell which one is doing it, I assumed it was the triton
 
Dustin07 said:
which epicatechin products have you used? first few times I used it I thought i noticed better pumps but nothing negative, but since taking it with the triton prewo I noticed more of these symptoms so while I can't tell which one is doing it, I assumed it was the triton
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Definitely not Triton - Triton literally gives cellular energy to have on tap, as if you had eaten more food. It raises endurance.

Epicatechin can help endurance, but the couple times I’ve used it orally over the years I definitely had to increase my intra carbs to feel decent on it. Which also helps contribute to its enhanced pumps.
 
Hyde said:
Epicatechin can help endurance, but the couple times I’ve used it orally over the years I definitely had to increase my intra carbs to feel decent on it. Which also helps contribute to its enhanced pumps.
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that makes sense to me, I had contemplated getting something from the vending machine intraworkout. I'm not used to feeling like a blood sugar crash sensation but that's likely how I would describe it
 
Dustin07 said:
that makes sense to me, I had contemplated getting something from the vending machine intraworkout. I'm not used to feeling like a blood sugar crash sensation but that's likely how I would describe it
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That is one of the worst sensations during a workout too. Part of why I love my intra drinks, plus they help me get my nutrition in easily while doing IF on training days.
 
Dustin07 said:
I'm thinking like anything else, I'll study it, go light, and work my way into it like I did bench. My bench is a LOT wider than it was a year ago, but that's a year of me moving my width like a nails thickness out each session. a wide grip used to really irritate my shoulders, as did incline, but working at it at low weight and building up has eliminated all pain in those movements. Hopefully I do the same thing with squats.

BUT I've spent the last year studying deadlifts and bench. a wide stance on squats is a little perplexing in my head as I think about knee angles etc. so it will take some practice and probably watching a lot of other's doing it to really understand it.
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Yeah definitely start light. Life sucks when you over cook your adductors!
 
If you are looking for minimal sole trail shoes, I highly rate these:

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Im told they take a little getting used to (for me everything took getting used to after broken leg) but everyone I know who run or hike in these love them.
 
BennyMagoo79 said:
If you are looking for minimal sole trail shoes, I highly rate these:

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Im told they take a little getting used to (for me everything took getting used to after broken leg) but everyone I know who run or hike in these love them.
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Ironically my feet seemed healthiest when I was using vibrams a lot. I started out with about 100 yards at a time in terms of distance but eventually got to a full trail run distance of X miles. This was at least 10+ years ago, but as I recall it's not just the foot itself, but also the achilles and calf that has to learn/stretch around this shoe. it teaches you a lot about staying off your heels, that's for sure! I still have an old pair but never wear them anymore.
 
Bench
3 x 10 x 95
3 x 135, 185, 205
2 x 6 x 225
2 x 6 x 230
12 x 185

EZ bar curls
4 x 15

SS with tri push downs
4 x 15

DB laterals
12 x 25s, 30s, 35s
15 x 30s

CGBP
3 x 10 x 135

Cardio
15 min LISS
15 min HIIT
(1:1 sprints)





Notes
Last Thursday and Friday had all day work engagements. Went 20:4 IF Friday. Saturday sore throat, runny nose, beat to hell, so I did yard work and medicated with elderberry and bourbon. Sunday, felt great and had an early round of golf. Have a work thing today again at 10am so slamming out an a.m. session, well fed.

Weighing in at 196lbs this morning after a weekend of Mexican food with my wife so probably up a few lbs in water.

Awesome pump today though.

Only supps at the moment:

Alpha Gel
Lean Edge by SNS
CLA by redcon (finishing old bottle so I can toss it )
 
194lbs this morning.
Yesterdays work thing post gym was a tournament with 2 customers (golf). 6hrs in the absolutely torrential downpour of rain, which is good cause we've had a drought all summer. Feet are beat to hell lol. Been wearing my Sauconys much much more which i think is helping. Might stagger my plan this week and make today a hard back day to let my feet rest and come back to squats/pulls Thursday/Friday. working in the HIIT springs yesterday I think was quite effective, but it's effective cause it's hard on the body. something I've always known and it's why I've tried to make more use of LISS and fasting instead.
 
RDLs
10 x 135, 185, 225

Superset with
Bb curls
6 sets

BB rows
3 x 10

DB curls
3 sets
+ 1 dropset

Superset with
DB rows
3 x 12

Lat pull downs
3 x 12

Cardio
10 min LISS
10 min HIIT
(Short on time)
 
Be very careful when adding in sprints. Your feet ain't ready for all the new torque your legs can provide now. Break into them in the 80% intensity range or something. Last time I picked up sprinting again around the 3rd time I was out I messed something up in my foot that had me in a boot for 9 months. It definitely was not worth it so if your feet are already feeling beat up just remember they are far more out of shape than your legs and glutes powering them.

Secondly, like you said sprints take a lot out of you, and are really going to hit your recovery ability so if you are adding in volume via sprints you need to be cognoscente of that and remove some volume from your leg training if you want to keep making progress in both areas.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Be very careful when adding in sprints. Your feet ain't ready for all the new torque your legs can provide now. Break into them in the 80% intensity range or something. Last time I picked up sprinting again around the 3rd time I was out I messed something up in my foot that had me in a boot for 9 months. It definitely was not worth it so if your feet are already feeling beat up just remember they are far more out of shape than your legs and glutes powering them.

Secondly, like you said sprints take a lot out of you, and are really going to hit your recovery ability so if you are adding in volume via sprints you need to be cognoscente of that and remove some volume from your leg training if you want to keep making progress in both areas.
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Kinda funny you say that. My wife and I were talking about cardio and she's like, why not throw in sprints? I said because that's going to open me up to a whole slew of potential injuries. She didn't agree with me, but she's tiny and built like a little runner sorta lol.

Since yesterday was my first effort throwing HIIT back in I did the long warm up on an incline then i think it ended up being 6-8 sprints over 15 minutes. 30-60 seconds on, 45-60 seconds off. I ran at speeds of like 6mph, 6, 6.5, 7, 7, 7.5, 8. Pretty sure I only hit 8 on the last lap.

10mph on a treadmill is a reasonable sprint for me but I have to be at a minimum of 6 to be able to open my gait at all. Today obviously was only like 5 interevals of 1:1 (min on, min off) and it was I think 6, 6.5, 7, 7.5, 7.5)

In addition to watching how my feet, calves, achilles, hamstring, and psoas responds (LOL) I was also watching my heart rate to see how high it got on high efforts and how fast it came down. The theory of course being that my max would be around 180bpm (220 - 40). whether anyone takes it serious or not it gives me a measurable baseline to work with.

I usually hit about 170 on the max effort sprints and would try to relax enough to get down to 120s before picking it up again. I want to watch that and see how fast I can recovery, and how my max speed / bpm ratio change with each other over time.

I also want to get my resting heart rate down. last time I checked was june around 60bpm I think (?) but that's much higher than when I was an xfit competitor. lowest I remember seeing was like 47bpm in the ER haha
 
Yeah especially when you have been primarily strength training, returning to dynamic movement presents a terrific opportunity to injure yourself. Between performing in planes of movement you haven’t been utilizing, lack of specific skill in the motor patterns you’re now taking up, and generally lacking stabilizers that haven’t been relevant…not to mention, the increased risk that would be present just from having increased strength alone vs previously. Then there can be increased bodyweight causing higher impact to joints as well.

Torn hammy, torn foot, sprained ankle, injured knees…that’s just moving fast. When you add in combat sports like boxing & bjj, it gets even more ridiculous. Or strongman moving/carry events.

You just have to start light/easy intensities and work technique. As sessions progress, ramp up the throttle thoughtfully so you have time to accommodate soft tissues over some weeks.
 
Hyde said:
Between performing in planes of movement you haven’t been utilizing, lack of specific skill in the motor patterns you’re now taking up, and generally lacking stabilizers that haven’t been relevant
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it's also not nearly as useful in real life to simply be able to run away 😅
But I have to admit when coming back to some semi-intense cardio after a long break it feels very good on the system. Feels like the lungs and heart and everything are being "cleansed". sorta hard to explain but it feels very healthy even though I honestly do not like running much. (this from a guy who ran many many 5ks, but I think mostly just to compete more than because I wanted to run. I realized later that if that 66 yr old guy was going to beat me by 2 minutes this wasn't my sport lol)

I did love racing BMX though, and that essentially is a sprint sport. That, wrestling, football, baseball. I do miss the athleticism of quick movements I guess, just hate long distance running.
 
I also did not realize you were doing this on the treadmill. Far less forces at work here. The treadmill does the bulk of the work for you, you just have to keep up with the belt. The forces created from propelling yourself across the ground are much higher than just keeping up with a belt. So you are probably a bit safer than I was originally thinking. By the way not saying these are not challenging, just that I think the risk of tearing or spraining something goes down so long as you don't get to failure during the sprint and the belt takes you for a ride or sprains your ankle from a misstep.
 
MrKleen73 said:
By the way not saying these are not challenging, just that I think the risk of tearing or spraining something goes down so long as you don't get to failure during the sprint and the belt takes you for a ride or sprains your ankle from a misstep.
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almost exactly why I prefer running on a treadmill. Ironically, I do believe it's like the smith machine of the cardio. It does limit your gait vs being able to have full rom outdoors, but it also eliminates uneven surfaces, is slightly softer on the feet, and keeps me out of the rain and traffic since we are now in the "9 months of rain" season here in the PNW lol
 
Ugh... 9 months rainy season... No wonder you get hit so hard when the daylight fades. You are already getting minimal exposure to the sun with the rainy season then add in shorter daylight hours. YUCK!!!! At least you have great fresh seafood!
 
MrKleen73 said:
Ugh... 9 months rainy season... No wonder you get hit so hard when the daylight fades. You are already getting minimal exposure to the sun with the rainy season then add in shorter daylight hours. YUCK!!!! At least you have great fresh seafood!
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😅😅😅😅😅 my wife and I talk all the time about how crazy it is that there isn't more of a seafood presence in our area. we literally live in a fishing town and I only know of one "seafood" restaurant!

headed to mexico for work Nov 1st, then for our annual vacation in Feb so those trips will help break it up a lot! Dec/Jan is when it's super dark out here though .

Years ago, I moved our company from traditional 8-5pm hours to 7am-4pm. (you can see why on this chart below)
That helped a lot. I tend to go in more like 6-3 so you're hitting the road (hopefully) before dark. But today it's 10am and very dark. After a super dry and droughty summer I expect a very very wet winter to rebuild the snowpack.

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Oh man that sucks! I would never be outside in the sun other than lunch time. That would be horrendous for me personally. I can feel the depression sinking in just looking at it.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Oh man that sucks! I would never be outside in the sun other than lunch time. That would be horrendous for me personally. I can feel the depression sinking in just looking at it.
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That's how we made grunge

But I got bad news for you, there's no sun at lunch time either lol

I think last year or year before we had something like 9-11 days of sunshine from Nov 1 till May.
 
Dustin07 said:
That's how we made grunge

But I got bad news for you, there's no sun at lunch time either lol

I think last year or year before we had something like 9-11 days of sunshine from Nov 1 till May.
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Now I need that "Hell to the No!!!" MEME I would have to fly people in to hug my blues away... LMAO!
 
MrKleen73 said:
Now I need that "Hell to the No!!!" MEME I would have to fly people in to hug my blues away... LMAO!
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I remember when I raced BMX and we had the Nationals Event locally. everyone comes in from Cali to race cause it's a pro event and the announcer is talking about how because we've had 111 days straight of rainfall they tried to bring the dirt into the arena far in advance to dry it out early for the track but it was still a bit like wet weather riding indoors lol
 
Dustin07 said:
I remember when I raced BMX and we had the Nationals Event locally. everyone comes in from Cali to race cause it's a pro event and the announcer is talking about how because we've had 111 days straight of rainfall they tried to bring the dirt into the arena far in advance to dry it out early for the track but it was still a bit like wet weather riding indoors lol
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I imagine that gave you a little edge over the Cali boys who only see rain right before a mudslide.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I imagine that gave you a little edge over the Cali boys who only see rain right before a mudslide.
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Hyde said:
You know you can move, right?
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its a work in process.... your hometown is your whole world when you're a kid. next thing you know you're at a desk with a kid in school. My boy will graduate in 4 years and that's when my wife and I are preparing to take the shackles off. our long term plan is to retire to mexico though.

but I also have a business here with Dad and 70 employees so up and moving would be quite a ripple in the water.
 
Dustin07 said:
its a work in process.... your hometown is your whole world when you're a kid. next thing you know you're at a desk with a kid in school. My boy will graduate in 4 years and that's when my wife and I are preparing to take the shackles off. our long term plan is to retire to mexico though.

but I also have a business here with Dad and 70 employees so up and moving would be quite a ripple in the water.
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I also know you’ve mentioned your house is an ancestral family home, so even that is tougher. Like you have some duty to keep it going or some BS that doesn’t really affect other people. But it’s a social pressure.
 
Hyde said:
But it’s a social pressure.
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very much so, it's about a 100+yr old family homestead, our house in particular built in the 30s but our water lines fed the parks down below us until my plumbing project and our only neighbors are her aunt and uncle who also inherited some land on the plot. we are the 4th generation in this house. There is the potential of renting it out when we cut loose but WA politics and taxes have grown so ridiculous there are times when my wife wants to just sell it all, give the middle finger to the state and zip off. The downside, is we do have water views and from July-August Puget Sound is about the driest and most beautiful place to be in the lower 48... blessing and a curse (but mostly blessing)
 
Yeah, but there are water views in a lot of places with out 10 months of rain and gloom. ;)
 
DB Bench
3 x 15 x 50s
10 x 70s, 80s, 90s
12 x 70s

SS with DB curls
3 sets

Incline bench
3 x 10

Tri cable pull downs
3 x 10-15

SS with lateral shoulder raises
3 x 10-12
+ dropset x 12reps

Ez bar curls
3 x 10-13

SS with forward raises
3 x 10

LISS
20 min






Notes
We've had some medical issues pop up in the family that are demanding some time and energy, so I'm embracing this changing of gears right now in the gym with a more "maintain" while cutting type approach for now. Definitely won't be holding my strength, but holding onto mass just fine and working a little on mobility and conditioning.

I did bring dermacrine back in one or two weeks ago at a half dose to see what happens in a slight caloric deficit. Results were predicable but at least now I know. Massive water retention, immediately bloated 3-5lbs and both nipples started itching lol. Two days with no dermacrine and only alpha gel, itch is gone and weight this morning is back down to 196.

(Spiked to 201 after dropping to about 192-193 the week prior)
 
Good plan but sucks about the Dermacrine.
 
Dustin07 said:
DB Bench
3 x 15 x 50s
10 x 70s, 80s, 90s
12 x 70s

SS with DB curls
3 sets

Incline bench
3 x 10

Tri cable pull downs
3 x 10-15

SS with lateral shoulder raises
3 x 10-12
+ dropset x 12reps

Ez bar curls
3 x 10-13

SS with forward raises
3 x 10

LISS
20 min






Notes
We've had some medical issues pop up in the family that are demanding some time and energy, so I'm embracing this changing of gears right now in the gym with a more "maintain" while cutting type approach for now. Definitely won't be holding my strength, but holding onto mass just fine and working a little on mobility and conditioning.

I did bring dermacrine back in one or two weeks ago at a half dose to see what happens in a slight caloric deficit. Results were predicable but at least now I know. Massive water retention, immediately bloated 3-5lbs and both nipples started itching lol. Two days with no dermacrine and only alpha gel, itch is gone and weight this morning is back down to 196.

(Spiked to 201 after dropping to about 192-193 the week prior)
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What was the rir on your db press?
 
MrKleen73 said:
Good plan but sucks about the Dermacrine.
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yeah it's good to know. I always had thought I'd reintroduce it when I felt like I was starting to lean back out and in a deficit to see if I responded differently to it. but nope, lol. I am going to give the epi another try maybe later this month as well because as far as I can tell aside from some hair shedding, that one was pretty dynamite for me. I want to give the xpg TD a try though vs caps.

GreenMachineX said:
What was the rir on your db press?
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I don't track RIR but probably 2 ish. Maybe more. I went in early and without PreWO to get a session in that was intended to be heavier than a deload but also I was prepared for it to not be ground breaking, ended up being a pretty decent session with a good pump.
 
For sure, I will be curious to hear your impression of the XPG version.
 
MrKleen73 said:
For sure, I will be curious to hear your impression of the XPG version.
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For sure. now that I am thinking back, my BP had increased in June and I am thinking that is something I will watch with an EPI run. I may try to keep it shorter but more intense vs what I did this spring, where I started with half doses, worked my way up, but also stayed on it for about twice as long as I had intended. Might be better just to run a full dose for a shorter period of time...
 
Dustin07 said:
For sure. now that I am thinking back, my BP had increased in June and I am thinking that is something I will watch with an EPI run. I may try to keep it shorter but more intense vs what I did this spring, where I started with half doses, worked my way up, but also stayed on it for about twice as long as I had intended. Might be better just to run a full dose for a shorter period of time...
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I think if you are going to test it you should run the full dose daily. Sure it can be used pre-workout with great success but with your issue with your nipples you might find that the oscillation of having high DHT then normal, then high, then normal might be a part of why you are getting issues. That more stable levels might correct the issue. Also for BP just buy some carditone for the month you are using it. It will drop BP pretty decently so it won't be much of an issue at all.
 
MrKleen73 said:
I think if you are going to test it you should run the full dose daily. Sure it can be used pre-workout with great success but with your issue with your nipples you might find that the oscillation of having high DHT then normal, then high, then normal might be a part of why you are getting issues. That more stable levels might correct the issue. Also for BP just buy some carditone for the month you are using it. It will drop BP pretty decently so it won't be much of an issue at all.
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That being said the best way would be to run 8 weeks of this.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Also for BP just buy some carditone for the month you are using it. It will drop BP pretty decently so it won't be much of an issue at all.
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MrKleen73 said:
That being said the best way would be to run 8 weeks of this.
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You're probably right. I learned a lot this year and more or less dabbled from Feb - June. that's a long run with a little break in the middle. an 8 week consistent would be much more reasonable. We have vacation mid Feb. I could start a cycle then around Dec 15th if I wanted to try to run it straight into vacation.
 
Dustin07 said:
You're probably right. I learned a lot this year and more or less dabbled from Feb - June. that's a long run with a little break in the middle. an 8 week consistent would be much more reasonable. We have vacation mid Feb. I could start a cycle then around Dec 15th if I wanted to try to run it straight into vacation.
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Also I know @sns8778 said he had a BP supplement on the way. Not sure of a release date or if it may have already been dropped and I missed it. However I am sure it will be at least as good if not better than carditone.
 
MrKleen73 said:
Also I know @sns8778 said he had a BP supplement on the way. Not sure of a release date or if it may have already been dropped and I missed it. However I am sure it will be at least as good if not better than carditone.
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We've had a blood pressure supplement for a long time. I think you may be getting it confused with Cholesterol Support XT, which is the one that will be coming up. But we had Blood Pressure Support XT out before Cardiovascular Support XT.

The formula is much better and much more clinically sound than Carditone, and doesn't contain any proprietary blends.

Blood Pressure Support XT is a great and comprehensive blood pressure support product that contains multiple ingredients that have great clinical studies on them, and the real world feedback has been great on it.

Here's a link to the product write up:

https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/blood-pressure-support-xt-120-veg-caps/
 
sns8778 said:
We've had a blood pressure supplement for a long time. I think you may be getting it confused with Cholesterol Support XT, which is the one that will be coming up. But we had Blood Pressure Support XT out before Cardiovascular Support XT.

The formula is much better and much more clinically sound than Carditone, and doesn't contain any proprietary blends.

Blood Pressure Support XT is a great and comprehensive blood pressure support product that contains multiple ingredients that have great clinical studies on them, and the real world feedback has been great on it.

Here's a link to the product write up:

https://seriousnutritionsolutions.com/product/blood-pressure-support-xt-120-veg-caps/
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That's right, it was the Cholesterol Support XT I was thinking about that was soon to be released. I remember us talking about them both at the same time and must have gotten them confused. I am currently using Telmisartan @40mg a day so I haven't bought any more BP supps while this is doing the trick. However, if your BP stuff is better than Carditone which wouldn't surprise me then it is a damn good product because I was impressed with Carditone when I used it.

About how many points are you seeing BP drop with the BP Support XT?
 
MrKleen73 said:
That's right, it was the Cholesterol Support XT I was thinking about that was soon to be released. I remember us talking about them both at the same time and must have gotten them confused. I am currently using Telmisartan @40mg a day so I haven't bought any more BP supps while this is doing the trick. However, if your BP stuff is better than Carditone which wouldn't surprise me then it is a damn good product because I was impressed with Carditone when I used it.

About how many points are you seeing BP drop with the BP Support XT?
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That is going to vary by the individual, but I will say that when formulating it, my concern wasn't it not working, my concern was on it being too strong for some people. It's potent enough that some people find that they only need to use half the daily dose.

When you look at the drop in bp with anything, its important to not just look at how quickly numbers drop, but to also look at if they stay down. And also many ingredients have a cumulative effect in where best results will be seen over the course of weeks to months of use.

Blood Pressure Support XT is designed to help support healthy blood pressure levels and most people see results very quickly and also see a cumulative effect and results continue to get better.

It's helped my blood pressure pretty dramatically on my end. My levels are the best and most consistent they've been in over 20 years.
 
sns8778 said:
That is going to vary by the individual, but I will say that when formulating it, my concern wasn't it not working, my concern was on it being too strong for some people. It's potent enough that some people find that they only need to use half the daily dose.

When you look at the drop in bp with anything, its important to not just look at how quickly numbers drop, but to also look at if they stay down. And also many ingredients have a cumulative effect in where best results will be seen over the course of weeks to months of use.

Blood Pressure Support XT is designed to help support healthy blood pressure levels and most people see results very quickly and also see a cumulative effect and results continue to get better.

It's helped my blood pressure pretty dramatically on my end. My levels are the best and most consistent they've been in over 20 years.
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Awesome, so do you still use meds and supplement them or are you only using the BP Support XT now?
 
MrKleen73 said:
Awesome, so do you still use meds and supplement them or are you only using the BP Support XT now?
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You've probably seen me mention over the years that I have a genetic heart condition; there is a medicine that I have to use for that that does help with BP somewhat. I have to use it though bc part of the condition I have is that my body struggles to properly put oxygen into the bloodstream.

In addition to that, I was on a BP medication at one time that I'm not longer on. My blood pressure runs consistently better on Blood Pressure Support XT.

That's just my personal experience. I never would tell anyone to come off of a medication without discussing it with their doctor because most bp meds need to be weened down, not just stopped.
 
Yep, that all sounds promising! @Dustin07 now you know which way to go for your BP support!
 
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