THICK BLOOD

[RipdnTxs2]

I have been on TRT for about two years at 100 ml (1/2 cc) Cyp. a week and have responded prettywell. I have been on Benicar 20 a day for about 10 years with good a BP of around 140/75. I ran my Cyp up to 200 a week for 6 weeks to see how I reacted and felt alot better in the gym and out, stopped about 10 weeks ago and came back to 100 a week, over the past year I have been having numbness in my feet and legs when not moving around. I got bad allergys recently and went to DR. two weeks ago and got a prednisone shot and antibiotics, while in DR. office I had BP of 180/105, he referred me to my Primary and had similiar BP, he switched me to Norvask and a water pill (HZT), after 4 days BP is still around 170/95. I have been having sever anxiety attacks and ended up in ER yesterday with tremors and BP way up again, my blood thickness was 18.9 on a scale of 14.0 to 18.0 and the ER Doc said it was the Cyp. causing this, I have had increasing redness in my face and neck over the past year, sometims almost purplish and generally felt tired and foggy headed for the past year. I am going to a Cardioligist tomorrow and have a stress test. I am wondering if anyone else has had these happen or what thoughts are on that low dose of Cyp. causing the thickening of the blood. I eat a pretty clean diet at 5 10 and 195 around 13 percent BF. I dont want to come off the Cyp, unless completely neccessary.
Sorry for the long post just looking for some input, I,m also 44, thanks for reading my small novel....

 

[The Matrix]

I have been on TRT for about two years at 100 ml (1/2 cc) Cyp. a week and have responded prettywell. I have been on Benicar 20 a day for about 10 years with good a BP of around 140/75. I ran my Cyp up to 200 a week for 6 weeks to see how I reacted and felt alot better in the gym and out, stopped about 10 weeks ago and came back to 100 a week, over the past year I have been having numbness in my feet and legs when not moving around. I got bad allergys recently and went to DR. two weeks ago and got a prednisone shot and antibiotics, while in DR. office I had BP of 180/105, he referred me to my Primary and had similiar BP, he switched me to Norvask and a water pill (HZT), after 4 days BP is still around 170/95. I have been having sever anxiety attacks and ended up in ER yesterday with tremors and BP way up again, my blood thickness was 18.9 on a scale of 14.0 to 18.0 and the ER Doc said it was the Cyp. causing this, I have had increasing redness in my face and neck over the past year, sometims almost purplish and generally felt tired and foggy headed for the past year. I am going to a Cardioligist tomorrow and have a stress test. I am wondering if anyone else has had these happen or what thoughts are on that low dose of Cyp. causing the thickening of the blood. I eat a pretty clean diet at 5 10 and 195 around 13 percent BF. I dont want to come off the Cyp, unless completely neccessary.
Sorry for the long post just looking for some input, I,m also 44, thanks for reading my small novel....

18.9 is not that much to be concerned with but need to be addressed if symtpoms persist. Where is your ferritin levels? You might just need to add some aspirin to help thin out the blood. Fish oils can also thin the blood. Please consult your GP for what his opinon is on this. This would be the first approach then blood letting if ferritin levels are so high.

 

[RipdnTxs2]

Thanks for your reply Matrix, do u think a low dose Cyp. could thicken the blood ?? I have been researching and have yet to find thickening at this low a dose. I have added low dose aspirin the last couple days, any ideas on why the BP is staying elevated ???

 

[3djedi]

Sure low dose cyp

 

[3djedi]

Sure a low dose of cyp can thicken the blood. Happens to quite a few folks. You can easily donate blood every few months to solve the problem. As far as blood pressure I have no idea.

 

[The Matrix]

Sure a low dose of cyp can thicken the blood. Happens to quite a few folks. You can easily donate blood every few months to solve the problem. As far as blood pressure I have no idea.

Check hypercoaguablity panel may have genetic disposition to clotting..See it alot in people.

 

[RipdnTxs2]

I had the stress test and had a BP of 170/90 at start of test and it got up to 235/80 with Cardioligist in room while testing, I had no chest pain during test, but other tests showed a slight thickening of heart was from the hypertension, nothing to severe according to Doc. He increased my Norvask to 10mg and Triamterene 37/HCTZ 25 mg daily as of Friday. I ckd yesterday and BP was 160/100, but didnt feel like it was that high. I have used celery seed extract in past to help with BP with some success, got up this morning and had the pressure in neck and headache, took celery seed and about a hour later symptoms were better, took meds and took BP two hours later and it was 155/80 and felt better, but as day has gone on headache is coming back. I have a appt. with my PC Doc. on Friday to address BP and blood thickness, this is REALLY frustrating, I have never taken better care of myself. The Cardioligist said my thickness was 15.9 in 2007 when I was on no type or steroids so maybe I am prone to it, but this BP thing is really puzzling so far, after controlling it for years on 20 mg of Benicar. I have not worked out now in about a month and I really miss my workout endorphins.......

 

[The Matrix]

I had the stress test and had a BP of 170/90 at start of test and it got up to 235/80 with Cardioligist in room while testing, I had no chest pain during test, but other tests showed a slight thickening of heart was from the hypertension, nothing to severe according to Doc. He increased my Norvask to 10mg and Triamterene 37/HCTZ 25 mg daily as of Friday. I ckd yesterday and BP was 160/100, but didnt feel like it was that high. I have used celery seed extract in past to help with BP with some success, got up this morning and had the pressure in neck and headache, took celery seed and about a hour later symptoms were better, took meds and took BP two hours later and it was 155/80 and felt better, but as day has gone on headache is coming back. I have a appt. with my PC Doc. on Friday to address BP and blood thickness, this is REALLY frustrating, I have never taken better care of myself. The Cardioligist said my thickness was 15.9 in 2007 when I was on no type or steroids so maybe I am prone to it, but this BP thing is really puzzling so far, after controlling it for years on 20 mg of Benicar. I have not worked out now in about a month and I really miss my workout endorphins.......

Clotting can also be affecting by medicine and also some supplements. Fish oils and vitamin E, aspirin have blood thinning properties

 

[Steveoph]

Did you have a full CBC done? Is your hematocrit 0.55 or higher? It's well documented that some AAS has erythropoietic effects (stimulate RBC production). Oxymetholone has been used to treat some types of anemia.

Any questions you have, just ask your docs. The cardiologist should be able to lay it out simply for you.

 

[DAdams91982]

Did you have a full CBC done? Is your hematocrit 0.55 or higher? It's well documented that some AAS has erythropoietic effects (stimulate RBC production). Oxymetholone has been used to treat some types of anemia.

Any questions you have, just ask your docs. The cardiologist should be able to lay it out simply for you.

This.

Most anabolics out there does just as Steveoph said... even weeks later from a Designer run my RBC was still in the upper range.

 

[RipdnTxs2]

BP was spiking at work yesterday 177/100 with some anxiety, so they sent me back to Doc. yesterday and he added Carvedilol 6.25 mg twice daily and after three doses my heart definitely feels like its not beating as hard and BP is in the 150/85 range, but still have major redness in face and neck, will see Doc. again on Fri., and if BP is still coming down we are going to address the blood thickness issues at that point. I have always had a hard time putting on weight and its been around six weeks since really any consistent training and my appetitie has been dimished, down 12 lbs.,(SUCKS) but I am hopefull we will get my issues resolved and I can get my ass back in the gym. I have realized lately how much I took for granted my health over the years and how great it feels to be tight and strong and kinda the alpha male feeling. Take ur health seriously guys !!!!!

 

[JanSz]

I have been on TRT for about two years at 100 ml (1/2 cc) Cyp. a week and have responded prettywell. I have been on Benicar 20 a day for about 10 years with good a BP of around 140/75. I ran my Cyp up to 200 a week for 6 weeks to see how I reacted and felt alot better in the gym and out, stopped about 10 weeks ago and came back to 100 a week, over the past year I have been having numbness in my feet and legs when not moving around. I got bad allergys recently and went to DR. two weeks ago and got a prednisone shot and antibiotics, while in DR. office I had BP of 180/105, he referred me to my Primary and had similiar BP, he switched me to Norvask and a water pill (HZT), after 4 days BP is still around 170/95. I have been having sever anxiety attacks and ended up in ER yesterday with tremors and BP way up again, my blood thickness was 18.9 on a scale of 14.0 to 18.0 and the ER Doc said it was the Cyp. causing this, I have had increasing redness in my face and neck over the past year, sometims almost purplish and generally felt tired and foggy headed for the past year. I am going to a Cardioligist tomorrow and have a stress test. I am wondering if anyone else has had these happen or what thoughts are on that low dose of Cyp. causing the thickening of the blood. I eat a pretty clean diet at 5 10 and 195 around 13 percent BF. I dont want to come off the Cyp, unless completely neccessary.
Sorry for the long post just looking for some input, I,m also 44, thanks for reading my small novel....

You have
Hemoglobin=18.9(14-18)

You have vent to optimistic laboratory.
Top range usually is at 17.

After you finish reading this post, get up and go to let pint of blood out.
You will have to do it number of times until you hemoglobin is less than 16.

All that assuming that you are otherwise normal.
If you have hemachromatosis or polychytemia
you will have to go much lower then 16, probably 13 more likely.
13 is not fun, you will be weak, feel crap.
But that is to let the excessive iron out.
Do not eat vit C, until further notice.

With this current level of Hgb=18.9
you will not accomplish much by regular blood donations.
They are allowed only every two months.
You need to do it few times every two weeks, then switch to monthly.
I suggest that you donate a pint right now,
and get appointment with hematologist.

Keep us posted of your progress.

You are not allowed to use testosterone until your iron status is sorted out.

You may discuss with hematologist, going back on testosterone when your Hbg is below 16.

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Read Bryce720 strory.
First on this board, latter on another board.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/male-anti-aging/144018-low-lh-fsh.html#post2303260

remove space to make link below work

http://musc lechatroom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13233&highlight=bryce720



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[RipdnTxs2]

Thanks for ur input JanSz, am going in the morning to ck level again. My level was 15.7 before starting TRT, sounds like I am going to feel like crap one way or the other, coming off the Cyp. will not be pleasant, but if that is causing the elevation, I will have no choice. My BP is down in the 130/74 range so that is a definite improvement.....

 

[JanSz]

Thanks for ur input JanSz, am going in the morning to ck level again. My level was 15.7 before starting TRT, sounds like I am going to feel like crap one way or the other, coming off the Cyp. will not be pleasant, but if that is causing the elevation, I will have no choice. My BP is down in the 130/74 range so that is a definite improvement.....

Yes you have a choice.

In your current situation you have to stop supplementing with testosterone,
but on the long term basis,
you should investigate if you can do balancing act
stay on decent level of BAT or FreeT using testosterone
AND
if you can stay at decent level of Hgb using phlebotomies.

You must consult with hematologist,
you may have some unusual situation,
but (depending on his outlook at medicine) some of his advice you may want to take with grain of salt.
Many MD's have peculiar outlook on medicine, often geared toward making $$ for BigPharma.
You may want to consult also with Osteopath (they have variety of specialties, so you have to find right one for this discussion)

You may want to join the other board, so you will be able to contact Bryce720.

He is making similar decisions, he may help you.

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I do not know what actually makes your Hgb raise so much.
I will tell you my situation.

I have been on testosterone supplementation for about 6 years, no problem with Hgb,

Few years ago i noted that my Ferritin was rather low, started supplementing with iron pills, ferritin newer really raised, no problem with Hcg

Year ago I started eating UNILIVER 10tabs/day, ferritin went up, no problem with Hgb.

March 31/10 tested, Ferritin still little higher, no problem with Hbg=15.8.

April 4/10 Green Laser Prostate surgery (reamed bigger hole).
April 20/10 Hgb=16.8
7/21/10 Hgb=17.5 cant give blood, must get script
7/28/10 Hgb=17.1 given pint of blood
9/1/10 Hgb=16.8 given pint of blood
10/6/10 Hgb=15.6 no blood given

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I can see you giving 4-5 pints of blood
and then have a smooth sailing
first three pints every two weeks, then change to a monthly frequency

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Stop eating high iron food.
But, likely, you should be able to eat beef after you are stable.

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The draw back of your (and mine) situation is that we have to forget about decent Ferritin levels.

Ferritin=energy

I am still looking for a ways to increase Ferritin without having Hgb/Hct problems.


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