The ultimate PCT combo

milwood said:
do you think that for a short cycle (4 weeks) relatively low shut down, and primarily using Rebound as PCT, a small dose of nolva is advisable anyway (say 10-20mg/day for 1-2 weeks?) Thanks.
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Yes! You have the right idea, I bet it turns out to work something like that. But the mg's should be roughly inversely proportional I'll say for now. The more Nolva you take the less Rebound you need and vise versa. Rebound should be a great way to short your SERM dose and avoind the toxicity. Don't get me started on the potential evils of SERM's! :whip:
 
ryansm said:
WHat exactly will you be looking for? To figure your ratio. Oh and ygpm.
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Just retaining the benefits of both with minimal overlap to keep doses as low as possible. Some DHEA converts to 7-O & OH metabolites, so if your taking LX, I figured you could short the DHEA a little.
 
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What do you peeps think about this PCT?

Would 7-keto DHEA be good at all for pct? vs normal DHEA
 
DR.D said:
I would invert the Rebound with the Nolva, for example:

Nolva...... 40/20/0/0
Rebound.. 25/25/50/75

See what I mean?
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can someone breifly explain why you taper up the Rebound XT as you taper down the nolva?

also, how is rebound different from other AI's like a-dex?

i was planning on getting some a-dex for my next cycle in case of bloat, water-retention, or gyno. could i use rebound instead in the same way?
 
Well...now that we're done with all of this theoretical nonsense...lets get back down to the planet earth and understand that there aren't too many of us that can afford PCT's like the above listed ones (especially those involving IGF-1) after running a cycle....LOL.

Here's about the Max I can afford:

Nolva:....... 40/40/30/20/0
ReboundXT: 0/0/25/50/75
LX: 150mg/day
CEE: 5g ED

That's about $100 PCT for 5wks....


Any recommendations good Doc? ;)

Mind if we switch gears to best PCT which the average joe can afford? hehehe
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Here's about the Max I can afford:

Nolva:....... 40/40/30/20/0
ReboundXT: 0/0/25/50/75
LX: 150mg/day
CEE: 5g ED
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this would be fine. I would simply add Vit C used a few times daily.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Nolva:....... 40/40/30/20/0
ReboundXT: 0/0/25/50/75
LX: 150mg/day
CEE: 5g ED
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B6 is cheap, and is probably a good idea if your cycle included tren. Then again, you should have been on it the whole time.

-kwantam
 
kwantam said:
B6 is cheap, and is probably a good idea if your cycle included tren. Then again, you should have been on it the whole time.
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Whats for?
 
Syr said:
Whats for?
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Tren doesn't aromatize, but it can still cause gyno via prolactin. B6 keeps prolactin levels down. 300 mg/day should keep tren gyno away completely, but if it pops up for you, up it to 600 mg/day until it goes away.

I've read that B6 can be toxic above 400 mg/day for extended periods of time, which is why 300 mg/day is recommended for maintainence levels.

-kwantam
 
Grassroots082 said:
Keeping Progesterone at bay, but wouldn't Nolva suffice since estrogen is the main culprit anyways?
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Tren gyno is prolactin-induced and has very little to do with estrogen. Nolva won't do anything for it.

-kwantam
 
BTW, excellent article by Dr. Noe at conversionboard:

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-kwantam
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Except that he suggests that low dose oral AAS are useful and/or are NOT counterproductive used during PCT.I know that I am not the only one who strongly disagrees with this idea.
 
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kwantam said:
Tren gyno is prolactin-induced and has very little to do with estrogen. Nolva won't do anything for it.
-kwantam
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that's not true you NEED estrogen for gyno .. bobo had a big long post about this ... i'll try to find it
 
Chemist63 said:
I am surprised that no one has talked about cAMPHIBOLIC or is it just to new?
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I ran it during my PCT cycle and dropped it (link to log below). I think its a great cutting compound, just not quite as useful for PCT. I found myself sweating a shitting far too much to consider it a mass retaining supplement.

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kwantam said:
Tren gyno is prolactin-induced and has very little to do with estrogen. Nolva won't do anything for it.

-kwantam
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Wrong, nolva is still your best bet, no estrogen present no chance for prog.
 
kwantam said:
Nolva won't do anything for it.
-kwantam
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Wrong.

Tamoxifen inhibits prolactin signal transduction in ER - NOG-8 mammary epithelial cells.
Das R, Vonderhaar BK.
Laboratory of Tumor Immunology and Biology, National Cancer Institute

Tamoxifen (TAM), an antiestrogen, also acts as an antilactogen in mammary cells. In the present study we analyze the effect of TAM on the signal transduction pathway for prolactin (Prl). TAM bound specifically to NOG-8, an estrogen receptor-negative mammary cell line. Within 5 min of Prl treatment, raf-1, MEK and MAP kinase were induced 2-3-fold over the control level. TAM completely inhibited this Prl-induced activation of kinases as well as Prl binding and cell growth. These results indicate the potential role of TAM as an antilactogen in Prl responsive systems.
 
size said:
Wrong.
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size, riansm, glenihan:

I'm convinced :box:, though I have seen reports of people who didn't respond to Nolva once tren gyno set in, only to have bromo and/or B6 clear it up.

Either way, 10mg/day Nolva + 300mg/day B6 and you're probably totally safe.

-kwantam
 
well nolva doesn't always get rid of gyno once its formed, but using it to prevent excess estro and it should lower the risk of it forming at all
 
kwantam said:
Tren doesn't aromatize, but it can still cause gyno via prolactin. B6 keeps prolactin levels down. 300 mg/day should keep tren gyno away completely, but if it pops up for you, up it to 600 mg/day until it goes away.

I've read that B6 can be toxic above 400 mg/day for extended periods of time, which is why 300 mg/day is recommended for maintainence levels.

-kwantam
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B6 studies were done on prolacting women. Its completely different for men. Prolactin only aggravates a condition when estrogen is present even in small amounts. Nolva still is the ebst best for blocking estrogenic effects caused by the aggravting effects of prolactin/progesteron on estrogen.

With B6 and/or Bromo you are treating the side effects, not the condition. You want to eliminate the cause, not the results.
 
glenihan said:
well nolva doesn't always get rid of gyno once its formed, but using it to prevent excess estro and it should lower the risk of it forming at all
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Nolva has been shown to decrease glandular gyno but if its excessive it will not decrease the estrogenic fat deposits left behind. I doubt anyone here would let gyno form to the point in which you needed surgery. That usually only happens with long prolonged formation during puberty.
 
Is there a reaosn why people are obsessed with lowering overall plasma estrogen in this thread? Increased GnRH and LH output and subsequent Leydig cell production is achieved when the anti-estrogenic effects are at the hypothalamus and pituitary. You don't need to drive overall plasma estrogen into the ground. That will cause a rebound more than anything. I don't understand why people combine all these products when it will have no effect on how fast the testes responds. Once you create increased LH output, thats it. You sit back and wait at the point. Adding more anti-e's or SERMS won't speed it up. Only HCG can achieve this.
 
Only HCG can achieve this.
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That's the quote of the day. This whole thread seemed to forget about HCG- the one wonder drug for PCT. It is not as easy to get as all the other compounds, but a must for any cycle with much shutdown. Research HCG would be really nice; I know it's been covered before.
 
D_town said:
HCG- the one wonder drug for PCT.
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I like Swale's thoughts on HCG: run it throughout at 250-iu 2x/week. If you do it this way, it's not really PCT...

-kwantam
 
D_town said:
That's the quote of the day. This whole thread seemed to forget about HCG- the one wonder drug for PCT. It is not as easy to get as all the other compounds, but a must for any cycle with much shutdown. Research HCG would be really nice; I know it's been covered before.
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i dream of a transdermal HCG....
 
is reboundXT able to totally take the place of nolva even for seriously suppressive aas cycles? It would be cool if Sledge from DS could chime in here.
 
milwood said:
I hear that!~ What's up, Syr.
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I dont know yet, but i would like to have that weapon to my arsenal.
i'm a fan of short cycles but mid-lenght (6-8 wks) are tempting and HCG would give me a hell of a help.
 
OmarJackson said:
can someone breifly explain why you taper up the Rebound XT as you taper down the nolva?

also, how is rebound different from other AI's like a-dex?

i was planning on getting some a-dex for my next cycle in case of bloat, water-retention, or gyno. could i use rebound instead in the same way?
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As PCT goes on, test levels increase. As test levels increase, so does estrogen. So you have a greater need for the higher Rebound doses at the end of the cycle. As Bobo points out, and as I mentioned earlier, it's bad to just totally destroy estrogen levels. But estrogen rebound phenomenon is not as likely to occur with a steroidal AI. In fact, taken at high enough doses over time, Rebound may influence estrogen levels down in a permanent fashion. It has been shown to occur with non-comp suicide substrates, so we shall see.
 
kwyckemynd00 said:
Well...now that we're done with all of this theoretical nonsense...lets get back down to the planet earth ...
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:D OK, ok, if your broke (I have 3 kids so you know I am too bro) your little PCT list looks good. :p Plus Size is right, Vit.C is a good over-all addition and a cheap anti-e as well. At least 1.5g/d in 3 doses. Also, Fenugreek is less than 5-10$/bottle depending on the brand and gives fast results if you still haven't tried it, do.
 
DR.D said:
As PCT goes on, test levels increase. As test levels increase, so does estrogen. So you have a greater need for the higher Rebound doses at the end of the cycle. As Bobo points out, and as I mentioned earlier, it's bad to just totally destroy estrogen levels. But estrogen rebound phenomenon is not as likely to occur with a steroidal AI. In fact, taken at high enough doses over time, Rebound may influence estrogen levels down in a permanent fashion. It has been shown to occur with non-comp suicide substrates, so we shall see.
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I have not seen any evidence at all that Nolva causes any sort of estrogen rebound. I don't really understand where this comes from at all. The increase is in estrone due to Nolvadex use and this is quickly metabolized into estriol which will almost have no effect in men.


I believe rebound is more likekly to occur with an AI or SI due to prolonged suppression. This also occurs with testosterone when levels are suppressed. Levels rebound to above normal levels before settling to normal or below normal levels. This above normal level will cause an increase in estrogen as well but if you are using Nolvadex there really isn't any concern.
 
DR.D said:
:D OK, ok, if your broke (I have 3 kids so you know I am too bro) your little PCT list looks good. :p Plus Size is right, Vit.C is a good over-all addition and a cheap anti-e as well. At least 1.5g/d in 3 doses. Also, Fenugreek is less than 5-10$/bottle depending on the brand and gives fast results if you still haven't tried it, do.
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:D Thanks :D
 
couple quick questions, I've been taking raloxifene for a month and a half in attempt to kill off some gyno i plan on taking for another month and a half but i have not yet checked in to sides or toxicity issues, should I take a break before my next month and a half or an i cool. Also I will be having ankle surgery soon an I ok to continue use? I know this isn't the perfect topic but you guys were already talking about SERMs so i decided to throw it out there. thanks.
 
Bigfishy said:
couple quick questions, I've been taking raloxifene for a month and a half in attempt to kill off some gyno i plan on taking for another month and a half but i have not yet checked in to sides or toxicity issues, should I take a break before my next month and a half or an i cool. Also I will be having ankle surgery soon an I ok to continue use? I know this isn't the perfect topic but you guys were already talking about SERMs so i decided to throw it out there. thanks.
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How is the raloxifene working on the gyno?
 
Truthfully I don't think that I have the right criteria, i believe the study was done on hard gyno lumps while i have pubesent fatty titty, puffy nipps gyno. It was kinda a last ditch effort before considering surgery. That being said I'm a month and a half into my 3 month excursion... and well I think my man titties are just laughing in my face. Zero, Zip, Nada. Score = man tities 1, fish 0, wallet -120$. I will keep yopu guys posted if anything amazing happens, but it ain't lookin good.
 
donk said:
I have a bottle of clomid and rebound xt. How should I dose if I wanna use both for PCT?
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i know this is a PCT thread but both of these (especially the clomid part) have been covered ad naseaum ... do a search and ye shall find what ye seek
 
Bigfishy said:
Truthfully I don't think that I have the right criteria, i believe the study was done on hard gyno lumps while i have pubesent fatty titty, puffy nipps gyno. It was kinda a last ditch effort before considering surgery. That being said I'm a month and a half into my 3 month excursion... and well I think my man titties are just laughing in my face. Zero, Zip, Nada. Score = man tities 1, fish 0, wallet -120$. I will keep yopu guys posted if anything amazing happens, but it ain't lookin good.
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bigfishy,whats your bodyfat at?

also, glen you mentioned that rebound xt was really promising for gyno.

now is this for hard, calcified, AAS induced gyno, or for pubescent gyno like bigfishy is describing? or both?
 
OmarJackson said:
bigfishy,whats your bodyfat at?
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I was gonna ask the same thing.

Back when I was a fatass (and I do mean FATASS; I was >30%!!!) I thought I had hereditary gyno. Turns out I was just a fatass.

-kwantam
(no sign of boobies---cept the chicks, of course---at 10% (and dropping... sweeeeet...))
 
sorry i took so long guys the doc thought i had bone cancer, turned out to be just a benign tumor... still shitty. I don't know my exact BF% as i don't usually have that resource, but I have in the past (like 8 months ago) i was 11% since then i have started playin rugby and lost a substantial amout of BF. Unfortunatly the fat drops off every when except for fatty patches on my lower titties. It seems no matter how much I lose my titties always stick, and it's getting to the point where I am almost looking stupid because i droped a bunch of BF and still have droopy tities like when i was heavier. Also if i where a light Tee shirt my nipples are pointy and puffy and the pitch nice little tents, enough so that ive had to beat ass on several occations for being called bitch tits. If your tellin me that losing more weight will do it in down to try but I feel pretty confident that my titties are going no where fast. By the way I quit the Ralo when I got the leukemia scare, and i'm not sure if im going to bother with the reat as I saw 0 results a month and a half in, any thoughts? Im also Interested in givin rebound a shot a if it has in fact shown results on fatty gyno, any results on fatty Glenihan?
 
sorry man i couldn't tell you ... i just know what i read in the designer supps forum .. take a look around there should help you out

by the way i played rugby although out college was a flanker ... what position are you?
 
For me for a 4-6 week SuperD/MDHT and maybe 200-400 of 4AD (optional), the "Ultimate," meaning money is no problem, I'd go with Oratropin-1, Rebound XT, Activate and Lean XT.

If it was an M1T/4AD 4 weeker, I'd add Nolva to the above cycle.
 
I'm a Lock down at The University of Arizona, always good to hear from fellow forwards meanest toughest ugliest people on earth. Would oratropin help my PCT even if I'm only 21, or would it be a waste of cash? Also I thought I new every supplement product know man but I have never heard or activate? Sounds flashy, who makes it and what is it?
 
Bigfishy said:
I'm a Lock down at The University of Arizona, always good to hear from fellow forwards meanest toughest ugliest people on earth.
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i don't know about you but i'm beautiful not ugly :D ... most fun sport i've ever played though ... resulted in 2 concussions and a SEVERELY separated shoulder that is still fucked up a year later ... i love rugby :)
 
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