The Solution
Legend
They are meant to replicate popular drinks on the market
White Frost ---> Monster Ultra White Energy Drink
Baja Breeze --> Baja Blast Mountain Dew // Taco Bell Drink
The New Product Release Thread
- Thread starter The Solution
- Start date
They are meant to replicate popular drinks on the market
White Frost ---> Monster Ultra White Energy Drink
Baja Breeze --> Baja Blast Mountain Dew // Taco Bell Drink
The Express 42
Well-known member
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I’m probably one of the biggest ingredient sticklers on the forum, but if they actually nailed the White Monster flavor down, including some carbonation, then I may actually buy a tub just to replace the Monsters that I occasionally treat myself to because I just love the taste of them. Getting that level of carbonation right in a powder sounds hard through. Save a bit under a dollar per serving over the cans. But the formula may actually be worse than actual Monster though lol, since at least Monster gets a solid dose of taurine in, compared to pretty useless doses of everything else here, including taurine.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Yeah, I’m agreeing with you here. I normally really dislike these types of products, but some of them still try to charge $1+ a serving, so at least this one knows what it is. I don’t even like most soda, but I love energy drinks for some reason, so this may be cool; I’d just have to have some actual nootropics or something with it haha.
Mowglisml
Well-known member
I really enjoyed the sample scoop. Baja was absolutely delicious. And yes has a carbonation feel to it which made it even more delicious. Like a light soda without effecting sweet taste. I did also feel some itchiness from BA, but surprised at a 1.2 g dosage compared to minimal tingles from total war which i recently tried at a much higher dose. I also tried it at 1/2 scoop and it taste pretty good as well.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
You’re the man! I feel guilty spending $1.50-2 on an energy drink when I have a ton of nootropics, PWOs, and fat burners, but I just love the taste of them. I’ve accepted that nothing with a loaded profile will taste this good, so I separate my drinking for pleasure with drinking for purpose haha.
DEVANS89
Well-known member
If it’s not ment to be a ‘fully dosed’ pre
Then why bother at all?
Leave it out and put good dosages of focus/stim ingredients in instead
People who pick up a monster want the caffeine and the pick up so if that’s what this is going for what’s the point in under dosed stuff?
Then why bother at all?
Leave it out and put good dosages of focus/stim ingredients in instead
People who pick up a monster want the caffeine and the pick up so if that’s what this is going for what’s the point in under dosed stuff?
The Solution
Legend
So.. You just wrote exactly what I explained
If you want to spend $2 on a get me up, or do you want to spend 40-60 cents on something that tastes as good if not better, and provides a bit more of a kick?
If you buy 100 monsters in a year, think about what you save.
Case and point. Some people buy these drinks daily from convenience stores, gas stations etc.. Just like how some people drop $2-3 on a coffee everyday from Starbucks.
This is just an alternative to consumers who want to purchase those types of products and want something to "Fuel" them throughout the day hence the name.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
You’re not going to have it taste that good with a ton of nootropics, or even a ton of stims really. It may be good, but it won’t be competing-with-canned-drinks-good TBH. And I get Monsters because I enjoy them; if I just wanted caffeine I’d pop a caffeine pill and down a glass of water for a few cents. They’re not my regular or daily options by any means, but they’re a nice treat a few times a week really. To each his own though. Plus this is meant to be a cheap replacement for the energy drinks while still feeling/tasting like one; if they loaded the profile then it wouldn’t be cheap anymore, and wouldn’t taste as good either. If you’re not going to put out a top-tier PWO with loaded profiles, then this route is at least viable (cheap and delicious); much better than still at least $1/serving AND a mediocre profile. Just my $0.02 from one of the biggest ingredient sticklers on the forum.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
This. Assuming I have 2-4 (so average 3) Monsters a week, that’s 156 cans per year. Saving $1/can, and that’s $156/year saved, which I can use to buy half a years worth of actual legit supplements to use for actual PWOs or nootropics! It won’t replace my nootropic product or my dedicated PWO, but it’ll save me money to spend on them instead of on canned energy drinks on occasion.
Danksta710
Active member
The new energy drink from the Myoblox CEO CAKE sounds good. Caffeine, B vits and Nootropics.
I'm currently a fan of the Hyde PP. That extra 50mg of caff and teacrine is a step up from Bang!
I'm currently a fan of the Hyde PP. That extra 50mg of caff and teacrine is a step up from Bang!
Jiigzz
Legend
Except they label it as a premium pre workout.
TIL it's ok to justify underdosed, as long as you make people believe it's to replace an energy drink.
mbonheur
Active member
You can definitely not double scoop it imo, 500mg caffeine is just too much. And if it is only a energy drink replacement, why bother putting underdosed ingredients anyways? I am not sure that they would be necessary at all, neither for performance nor for taste reasons. Imo would have been better to keep the number of ingredients lower and just add the typical ingredients to the caffeine, as they do it in Alphamine for instance.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I’m talking about utility, not marketing. I agree that the marketing/labeling is misleading. That said:
Obviously we want something that’s dosed properly and loaded with solid ingredients. This comes with at least a moderate price tag. This is what we will use for actual PWOs, nootropics, etc.
Then we have the opposite end of the spectrum, where the profile sucks, and is pretty much just flavored caffeine. If it doesn’t taste amazing, then there’s pretty much nothing redeeming about the product itself. The price here also needs to be significantly lower then what you’d pay for a good PWO.
The worst thing you can have is underdosed products that cost the same as well-dosed products; there’s no reason to buy those. Or if they don’t taste amazing; not just good, but amazing.
There’s no point in a “flavored powdered caffeine” product if it’s not cheap and delicious. I wouldn’t call it a PWO so much as an energy powder, but it has some level of utility is my underlying point, if that makes any sense.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Most energy drinks have uselessly underdosed ingredients too; ask The Solution about how many times I’ve pointed that out haha. I’d greatly have preferred just caffeine and a better dose of taurine (which energy drinks acutely tend to get right), and maybe some ornithine too, since you CAN dose that very low (<500mg) to get benefits with caffeine, but it is what it is.
But yeah, caffeine + taurine + ornithine instead of all the other nonsense would make for a more effective profile. But look at Bang; useless doses of amino acids, but people apparently like to see them on the label, so you get that BS here too.
If it tastes as good as people say, and if they nailed the carbonation, then it’s not useless, it’s just not a PWO. It has a niche use, if nothing else, yet the label is misleading, as you’re not getting pumps or a premium PWO.
I hope I’ve explained my point halfway decently.
Jiigzz
Legend
So we are OK with companies doing this, so long as there's caffeine, it tastes good and it's reasonably priced, regardless of the fact 99% of the rest of the profile may well as not be there?
Interesting perspective.
Tbh id rather buy a fully dosed pre, then 1/4 or 1/2 scoop it than buy something like this.
I still stand by my original comment where it seems that regardless of the dosages, a company can still get people to buy a product as long as the consumers start calling it an energy drink replacement. Lol.
Energy drinks in NZ cost about $3- $4 per can depending on the size. So by your reasoning, most pre workouts that fall in the price range of up to $3 per serve can be called energy drink replacements, regardless of what is actually in them lol
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Did you even read my post? I agreed that it’s misleading labeling and probably shouldn’t be marketed/labeled as a PWO. I’m merely saying that it isn’t useless as it fills a niche. It sounds like you just want an argument...
Also, 1/4-1/2 dosing a good PWO will just leave you with a mediocre to good tasting drink, not something that tastes like a replacement for an energy drink, which is the ONLY thing I’m claiming this product is even halfway decent for. Call it an energy powder, problem solved; crisis averted.
If I want something to replace an energy drink from a novelty/enjoyment perspective, NOT from an efficacy perspective, as a freaking caffeine tab can do that, it MUST be carbonated, which most (all?) good PWOs are not. Half-dosing a well-dosed PWO or fat burner, from any company, has never been something that tastes as good as an energy drink for me.
The only thing even worth arguing about is them calling it a PWO and the misleading claims it makes. I can show you a myriad of products with just as terrible profiles, much worse taste, and a much worse price point. If this tastes as good as people say and is < $0.50/serving, then at least it does TWO things better than 90% of PWOs on the market that are also garbage profiles but taste mediocre at best and are expensive.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
And I’m not saying that ANY underdosed powder can be called an energy drink replacement, only ones that taste amazing (not just good), are carbonated, and are very cheap.
The other option to replace an energy drink is something that is well dosed, that will have better effects, and is at least the same price as the drink, likely still cheaper, but almost certainly isn’t carbonated and tastes good, but not amazing.
Anything besides these two extremes, these two opposite ends of the spectrum, is trying to do everything and succeeding at nothing.
Of course the later is what I use daily, like a proper PWO or fat-burner or nootropic, but the former can at least save people money while not taking away from their enjoyment on an energy drink.
The other option to replace an energy drink is something that is well dosed, that will have better effects, and is at least the same price as the drink, likely still cheaper, but almost certainly isn’t carbonated and tastes good, but not amazing.
Anything besides these two extremes, these two opposite ends of the spectrum, is trying to do everything and succeeding at nothing.
Of course the later is what I use daily, like a proper PWO or fat-burner or nootropic, but the former can at least save people money while not taking away from their enjoyment on an energy drink.
Jiigzz
Legend
You scrutinize companies for underdosing products a lot on these forums, and for good reason. It's just funny how you are OK with this one simply because it's been pitched to you as an energy drink replacement, which, as far as I can see, it was never marketed as. I don't see the point in financially rewarding a company that underdoses things and uses arginine in 2019, but all the more power to you.
To that end though, I don't see the counter argument of this product being underdosed as invalid.
Jiigzz
Legend
I agree.
I find it hard to believe that people are justifying it on the premise of flavour and carbonation. If your only metric for value is that it is cheaper than a Monster, then why is that logic not applied to all underdosed pres?
Why are we exempting this one?
Can we go back to loving BPI pre workouts if they are cheaper than $2 per serve?
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I have repeatedly and explicitly said that I wholeheartedly agree that the formula sucks, the label claims are laughable, and it really shouldn’t even be called a PWO. That said, if the carbonation is on-point and the flavor is actually comparable to White Monster, then I can use it to save a few dollars a week, as it’d achieve the same thing for me (enjoyment and a little caffeine) as the Monster. For daily use, I’ll still use good products, but I don’t drink any of them for enjoyment, I drink them for a purpose. You can argue I shouldn’t support a company that is deceptive, but maybe I just want to save a few dollars versus Monster? They’re not exactly the most honest company either, so I’m not really doing much better supporting them, or Red Bull, or Bang, as they all throw in garbage underdosed ingredients. If I’m playing the ethical role, I shouldn’t give ANY of these companies my money. But I’m not playing the ethical card, I’m playing the saving money card.
I don’t know how much more I can explain this.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Because 99.9% of underdosed PWOs don’t meet all three of the following criteria:
-Carbonation
-Well under $1/serving
-Taste actually comparable to energy drinks
And well-dosed PWOs are NEVER carbonated or that good tasting, so the idea of 1/4-1/2 scooping one to save money still doesn’t hit those 3 points.
I feel like I’m banging my head against a wall...
Jiigzz
Legend
You can carbonate any drink by adding CO2 - whether by a co2 pump or mixing an acid like Citric acid with sodium bicarb, but to me it's ironic how much of a hard time you give companies and people for producing or liking certain underdosed products, despite you vehemently defending this underdosed product because you like it.
As long as you, the purchaser, see value, who am I to judge. Perhaps the same logic can be applied to products other people enjoy
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I just explained it several times.... This product, if it lives up to the flavor and carbonation claims, does something no other does. All the products I criticize are OBJECTIVELY beat by (multiple) other products in every category. If they’re underdosed and not priced cheaply and/or don’t taste amazing, then they deserve criticism.
Take your average YouTuber’s PWO. It’s underdosed, overpriced, and almost certainly doesn’t taste energy-drink-like. That hypothetical product deserves to be torn apart, as it is objectively bodied by many other products in every category. There is nothing redeeming about any of these hypothetical products at all. At least this one (claims to) be something different than the pack.
I explained the 3 points that make it have a niche. It’s on the opposite end of the spectrum of PWOs that are dosed well, a bit more pricey, and can’t taste as good. I still use the well-dosed ones 99% of the time of course. It’s things in the middle that I see as having no real utility IMO.
Surely you can at least see my point, even if you don’t agree with it, no?
muscleupcrohn
Legend
Also, if I want something convenient, adding more things isn’t that.
Jiigzz
Legend
I see your point, but I dont see how you can claim this product is objectively better than a Youtubers product, when flavour and need for carbonation are purely subjective measures. Not to mention you haven't even tried it yet.
If someone else likes a product you consider poor, then you're in the same position I am now. Despite the objective truth this product is lacklastre, subjectively you are drawn to it because it replaces a niche it never claimed to meet, but one you created for it. That's fine, but there's a deep irony in it for how often you put on blast products people enjoy despite you not seeing value in it - obviously they do, so where is the difference?
At least i know that if i decide to create a terribly underdosed product, people will love it and defend it as long as it tastes good and has a bit of carbonation.
But let's move on with our lives
Jiigzz
Legend
"Anyone can argue they like X, Y, or Z on the market, but the problem is companies like BPI continue to sell well because people don't know what clinical dosings are, they don't know what they need to see in a formula for it to be an adeuqate dose. If they feel good, if they like the taste, and they see it reccomended they will buy it"
Isn't this exactly what you are defending Fuel for????
Am i missing something here?
Fuel is underdosed. Fuel tastes good. Why are you bashing BPI for those two things but praising Fuel for them?
Surely this is a troll lol
The Solution
Legend
In Fuel's case... if you buy it to replace things you overspend on. ---> Energy Dirnks ($2-3 Each) Coffee ($2-3 think starbucks, Tim Hortons), A study aid, an everday get me up..... What are you getting?
- A better tasting product
- A cheaper alternative
- A good kick of energy for nearly 1/3-1/4th the cost.
You're looking at it from a pre-workout and clinically dosed perspective. Is every pre-workout made that way? Absolutely not
Would I rather use a clinically dosed pre-workout for workout sessions? Absolutely and I stated that in my review
Would I want to spend 40 cents on fuel if I wanted to give me some energy in the middle of the afternoon instead of dropping $2 on a monster or going to starbucks for a coffee? Absolutely.
I have even stated if I wanted a clinically dosed pre-workout for training sessions that is what I would use and keep fuel to other situations. There is no one size fits all in the industry. If there was everyone would make the same product and have the same doses in every single category. As you and I both know that is not the case.
For the large majority of everyday citizens who overpay on coffee, energy drinks, and other forms of caffeine beverages Fuel is a cost effective replacment to give them a boost and to save them money.
robshef;6174780The concept of arguing with someone said:
Exactly.
Jiigzz
Legend
:facepalm:
Rocket3015
Legend
I love internet arguments !! No one will ever win !!
muscleupcrohn
Legend
I’ve repeated ad nauseam that this product seems to (I don’t KNOW yet) replicate carbonated energy drinks better than any powdered supplement out there by virtue of carbonation and flavoring. Paired with the low price per serving, and it seems to be the most affordable way to get a comparable experience to buying a Monster while saving money. Subjective? Sure, but it’s objectively closer to White Monster than any other PWO.I see your point, but I dont see how you can claim this product is objectively better than a Youtubers product, when flavour and need for carbonation are purely subjective measures. Not to mention you haven't even tried it yet.
If someone else likes a product you consider poor, then you're in the same position I am now. Despite the objective truth this product is lacklastre, subjectively you are drawn to it because it replaces a niche it never claimed to meet, but one you created for it. That's fine, but there's a deep irony in it for how often you put on blast products people enjoy despite you not seeing value in it - obviously they do, so where is the difference?
At least i know that if i decide to create a terribly underdosed product, people will love it and defend it as long as it tastes good and has a bit of carbonation.
But let's move on with our lives
I’ll explicitly say, and have already said, it’s a terrible formula, and a misleadingly labeled product that shouldn’t really be labeled as a PWO.
What differentiates it from the pack (95% of garbage PWOs on the market), and I will have to confirm this when I taste it, is that at it fills a niche that they don’t. I never claimed it’s not a garbage PWO, just that it may not be a useless supplement, and may have a niche role that other supplements don’t by virtue of the combination of three factors (flavoring, carbonation, and price) that no other product hits on all points in replacing an energy drink in terms of the experience.
TL;DR: it’s objectively different than non-carbonated overpriced PWOs. And I never even said it’s not a terrible PWO, just that it has a unique niche as a supplement, not a PWO.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
This whole argument boils down to it shouldn’t be marketed as a PWO really. Because if it’s aiming to emulate energy drinks, which are underdosed by nature, then it hits that mark haha. So the whole argument is that it’s a terrible PWO, which I can agree too, but I then say that it has a unique niche as a supplement to replace energy drinks while saving money and not sacrificing on the taste/experience.
Jiigzz
Legend
Haha this is true. I just find some of the comments very ironic when you compare it to other comments they make about other underdosed products lol.
A tip for all formulators out there: carbonate EVERYTHING
But anyway, back to new products.
muscleupcrohn
Legend
In all fairness, carbonating a product with tons of exotic stimulants, adaptogens, nootropics, etc. is never going to make it taste like an energy drink. And it won’t stop underdosed products from still selling for $1+ per serving. I really don’t think you’re even trying to listen to anyone’s points.Haha this is true. I just find some of the comments very ironic when you compare it to other comments they make about other underdosed products lol.
A tip for all formulators out there: carbonate EVERYTHING
But anyway, back to new products.
The Solution
Legend
muscleupcrohn will know in a few days
Anyways
Primeval Labs teasing a new intra for Intra7Cell in the black series
Curious on the additions to this from the OG
Invalid Link Removed
Super HD reformulated and now includes both forms of Yohimbine and has opened up how much Green Tea/Caffeine per serving
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150mg Green Tea/160mg Caffeine
aaronuconn
Well-known member
Of note to remember is that Campus Protein just closed a Series A not too long ago and are marketing their “pre” to the masses. Appealing to the smart guys on a forum isn’t really their objective.
So, pre for the masses and energy drink for the smart guys on a forum?
Eh, I’m not keen on having it marketed both ways. Not my company or product though. Doesn’t impact me either way. If you like the product, enjoy it
So, pre for the masses and energy drink for the smart guys on a forum?
Eh, I’m not keen on having it marketed both ways. Not my company or product though. Doesn’t impact me either way. If you like the product, enjoy it
nostrum420
Well-known member
muscleupcrohn will know in a few days
Anyways
Primeval Labs teasing a new intra for Intra7Cell in the black series
Curious on the additions to this from the OG
Invalid Link Removed
Super HD reformulated and now includes both forms of Yohimbine and has opened up how much Green Tea/Caffeine per serving
Invalid Link Removed
150mg Green Tea/160mg Caffeine
But how much slack fill is there?
00A
Well-known member
How you know underdosed? Is this common with there products?
Danksta710
Active member
What was underwhelming by it?
I ran it in the fall and really liked the results. Currently running two bottles back to back.
Do you think I'd get better results doubling the dose? Is there a better Recomp product you recommend?
PJ admits this on YT. His excuse is he knows guys take more than the recommended dose so they underdose for people's safety.
patrick25
Active member
Wow what a con.
Danksta710
Active member
He's an interesting "character" to follow for sure. He has a new show on Generation Iron.
A hustler knows a hustler when he sees one. PJ is a massive one.
Recomp RX is the only product I've enjoyed from them really and I never pay full price or order from them.
But I'll admit I'm curious about his next product...
A hustler knows a hustler when he sees one. PJ is a massive one.
Recomp RX is the only product I've enjoyed from them really and I never pay full price or order from them.
But I'll admit I'm curious about his next product...
carguy123
Active member
Strong this^^^ and tried to fukk over John Meadows in the process too.