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The Lean Gains / IF learning and Discussion Log

ssbackwards said:
this has to do with poor glucose control nothing else.

It could also be due to not eating enough at the meal.

do you have high bodyfat? high carb cravings or high fat craving?

Occasionally crave chocolate ..

5' 11" 212lbs 7%bf ... BF is at 7-9% .. For last 4yrs (only time I have tracked it) .. I think I got to 11% on last bulk .. Cranky been around for at least 15yr started the half dozen meals a day when my son was born ..
I eat relatively clean .. Currently 275g carbs 275g protien and 60g fat daily .. Holding pattern for couple months .. 5/6x a day 3-600 cal per meal .. Rarely am I not full when my meal is gone ..

before you ask .. Bloods have always been good .. Choles was a little high a dozen years ago .. Family health history good also
 
I may have to give this fasting diet a shot again.

I tried it and couldn't keep up with the times to eat...

Either way some at the gym was trying it and he lost weight but his strength is down. I don't want either to happen to me.

Just heard during the fasting time to sip BCAAs
 
Occasionally crave chocolate ..

5' 11" 212lbs 7%bf ... BF is at 7-9% .. For last 4yrs (only time I have tracked it) .. I think I got to 11% on last bulk .. Cranky been around for at least 15yr started the half dozen meals a day when my son was born ..
I eat relatively clean .. Currently 275g carbs 275g protien and 60g fat daily .. Holding pattern for couple months .. 5/6x a day 3-600 cal per meal .. Rarely am I not full when my meal is gone ..

before you ask .. Bloods have always been good .. Choles was a little high a dozen years ago .. Family health history good also


then poor glucose control is not why. The other reason (not eating enough at meals) would be why.

look into carnosine, calcium, magnesium and vitamin D. Those will aid in cravings.

Carnosine will increase histamine (like clen does but wont work beta receptorS) which will sort of mimic leptins action to reduce cravings.
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something like 5htp along with it can increase seratonin. that can help reduce sugar cravings

or you can go superfood route and munch on cacao nibs.
 
Maybe someone can elaborate on something with me for lean gains.

So I got the fasting part and consuming just BCAA.
My question is should calories or macros change? That should stay the same and u just get it all in that 8 hour window correct?
Are there any other major key points I am missing?
 
AaronJP1 said:
Maybe someone can elaborate on something with me for lean gains.

So I got the fasting part and consuming just BCAA.
My question is should calories or macros change? That should stay the same and u just get it all in that 8 hour window correct?
Are there any other major key points I am missing?

Macros don't need to change. Start somewhere you are comfortable.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Macros don't need to change. Start somewhere you are comfortable.

Thx
 
As I sit back and I think about it.
I think I'm going to stick to what my daily food intake should be and stop the carbs 2-3 hours before time. That may make a little bit more sense for me.

The reason why lean gains didn't work out so well for me was because last time I tried it I couldn't stick to the times.

Some days I work at 9-5 other says 12p-9p. My schedule varies everyday.
 
AaronJP1 said:
As I sit back and I think about it.
I think I'm going to stick to what my daily food intake should be and stop the carbs 2-3 hours before time. That may make a little bit more sense for me.

The reason why lean gains didn't work out so well for me was because last time I tried it I couldn't stick to the times.

Some days I work at 9-5 other says 12p-9p. My schedule varies everyday.

I can't see why that is a problem. My wife works nights 7pm-730am and she doesn't have a set work schedule so her schedule is erratic as hell and she does it with no issues.

Your hours seem very easy to work with.
 
I can't see why that is a problem. My wife works nights 7pm-730am and she doesn't have a set work schedule so her schedule is erratic as hell and she does it with no issues.

Your hours seem very easy to work with.

Hospital employee?
 
Frank Reynolds said:
I can't see why that is a problem. My wife works nights 7pm-730am and she doesn't have a set work schedule so her schedule is erratic as hell and she does it with no issues.

Your hours seem very easy to work with.

Everyday is different and I can not eat at work anytime I want. So if I'm working my 12-9 then tomorrow I could be working 9-5 and the next day 11-8. Right it could be done but very difficult.
 
As I sit back and I think about it.
I think I'm going to stick to what my daily food intake should be and stop the carbs 2-3 hours before time. That may make a little bit more sense for me.

The reason why lean gains didn't work out so well for me was because last time I tried it I couldn't stick to the times.

Some days I work at 9-5 other says 12p-9p. My schedule varies everyday.

you may do well with my feast/famine 12/12 meal.

2 meals 10-12 hours apart.

2 fasting windows.

2 large meals.

workouts fasted before meal 1, or 5-8 hours after.

can have a meal at 8 30am then again when your home from work.

leucine is the BCAA of choice during this fasting protocol. and carnosine calcium magnesium can help with cravings.
 
JudoJosh said:
Hospital employee?
Indeed. Rn
AaronJP1 said:
Everyday is different and I can not eat at work anytime I want. So if I'm working my 12-9 then tomorrow I could be working 9-5 and the next day 11-8. Right it could be done but very difficult.
You don't have to eat at specific times. Maybe I am misunderstanding your dilemma but I am really not seeing an issue.

It isn't like you have to eat at 12 5 9 for example. You can eat one day at 12-5-9 the next day 12 And 7, another day 1- 3-8 it ís very flexible, that ís most of the allure.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
Indeed. Rn

You don't have to eat at specific times. Maybe I am misunderstanding your dilemma but I am really not seeing an issue.

It isn't like you have to eat at 12 5 9 for example. You can eat one day at 12-5-9 the next day 12 And 7, another day 1- 3-8 it ís very flexible, that ís most of the allure.

I get 1 meal break at work.
I'm a retail employee.
No standing in the back eating while patrons are waiting.
 
ssbackwards said:
you may do well with my feast/famine 12/12 meal.

2 meals 10-12 hours apart.

2 fasting windows.

2 large meals.

workouts fasted before meal 1, or 5-8 hours after.

can have a meal at 8 30am then again when your home from work.

leucine is the BCAA of choice during this fasting protocol. and carnosine calcium magnesium can help with cravings.

Now that's a solid idea, thanks for the tip.
 
ssbackwards said:
you may do well with my feast/famine 12/12 meal.

2 meals 10-12 hours apart.

2 fasting windows.

2 large meals.

workouts fasted before meal 1, or 5-8 hours after.

can have a meal at 8 30am then again when your home from work.

leucine is the BCAA of choice during this fasting protocol. and carnosine calcium magnesium can help with cravings.

This would be like eating a huge meal at 9am and another huge meal at 9pm
That could probably work.
 
AaronJP1 said:
I get 1 meal break at work.
I'm a retail employee.
No standing in the back eating while patrons are waiting.
You don't get 15 min breaks?

So how do you maintain a normal eating schedule eating multiple times a day?
 
This would be like eating a huge meal at 9am and another huge meal at 9pm
That could probably work.

its exactly how it works.

If your foods are low in carbs, have that first meal have a bit of saturated fat in it as it will aid your fasting time by keeping you a little more full.

i like 10 eggs 16 oz chicken and 4 oz goat cheese for my breakfast.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
You don't get 15 min breaks?

So how do you maintain a normal eating schedule eating multiple times a day?

That's part of the problem.
Basically I've been sneaking in the back rooms, and hiding areas and a lot of liquid meals I keep on a table as I walk to the back and just guzzle a huge sip each time. Usually been getting 3 meals in breakfast, lunch, dinner :)
 
ssbackwards said:
its exactly how it works.

If your foods are low in carbs, have that first meal have a bit of saturated fat in it as it will aid your fasting time by keeping you a little more full.

i like 10 eggs 16 oz chicken and 4 oz goat cheese for my breakfast.

That holds ya over huh?
 
Indeed. Rn

Haha... I knew it! 7-730 three days a week with a sporadic schedule.. Yup that sounds familiar. I have grown to love the schedule. Cant imagine ever going back to a 9-5, 5 days a week job
 
AaronJP1 said:
That's part of the problem.
Basically I've been sneaking in the back rooms, and hiding areas and a lot of liquid meals I keep on a table as I walk to the back and just guzzle a huge sip each time. Usually been getting 3 meals in breakfast, lunch, dinner :)

That modified warrior diet posted a few pages back would be another option then. 3 protein shakes while at work, then one huge feeding after work.
 
Frank Reynolds said:
That modified warrior diet posted a few pages back would be another option then. 3 protein shakes while at work, then one huge feeding after work.

That's something to look into?
A few pages back? Not sure I can find it. I'll google it unless u got a page & post # for me?
 
mkretz said:
i say u go with the 2 big meals that seems like it woul work

Agreed
 
Alright, first off I have no idea why the fck I have never gave LG a go. I literally spent all night last night reading through Martin's site and cannot believe how much I agree with his philosophy and methods. A light bulb was going off every minute as I read through that site. Everything that LG/IF has to offer seems to be absolutely perfect. Now before I write up my blueprint, I have just a couple questions for the experts on this matter. I would appreciate anyone's input as I am trying to gather as much as information on this as I can.

1) If losing body fat is the first goal and retaining/gaining muscle is second, can a ketogenic/low-carb routine be implied the first 2 weeks to kick start the process?

2) What would be better to keep the fat loss process going, a ketogenic/low-carb routine or a simple deduction of calories while keeping a 40C/40P/20F ratio?

3) I start school in January, and I will most likely be taking morning classes. What would be the best way to set this up? I actually like to do morning cardio but I also like to hit the weights. Is it possible to do two-a-day workouts on LG/IF? If so, do they both need to be done during the fasted state or can weights be done during the 8-hour eating window? This is the part I am having trouble setting up. I think I read that Martin recommends to eat 25% of total cals pre-workout but how should the remaining 75% be set up, just divide them into two meals? Also, I am going to be training partly for basketball by implementing plyos and power-lifts, can I play ball during the 8-hour eating window?

4) If I do fasted cardio in the morning, can a whey shake be taken after the session, even if I don't break my fast until say for another 3 hours? I plan on using BCAAs but I was just wondering about whey and if the artificial sweeteners can break a fast.

5) Lastly, because I cannot live without playing basketball at least 3-4 times a week, would it be OK to play ball AFTER my last meal? The reason being is that sometimes the courts don't clear out until 7 or 8pm, sometimes even later. Right now, I am trying to get my game up so I like practicing by myself. And one more thing, would it be OK to drink some Powerade while I play, if I happen to play after the last meal?

I have a really good feeling about LG/IF and cannot wait to get going. I have been wasting so much time for years trying to nail down a perfect routine when it was practically sitting right in front of me, smh. Sorry for the long read guys, but I would very much appreciate the help and insight.
 
Alright, first off I have no idea why the fck I have never gave LG a go. I literally spent all night last night reading through Martin's site and cannot believe how much I agree with his philosophy and methods. A light bulb was going off every minute as I read through that site. Everything that LG/IF has to offer seems to be absolutely perfect. Now before I write up my blueprint, I have just a couple questions for the experts on this matter. I would appreciate anyone's input as I am trying to gather as much as information on this as I can.

1) If losing body fat is the first goal and retaining/gaining muscle is second, can a ketogenic/low-carb routine be implied the first 2 weeks to kick start the process?

You can go low carb all the time if you want. You need to figure out what you respond best to, and feel best on.

2) What would be better to keep the fat loss process going, a ketogenic/low-carb routine or a simple deduction of calories while keeping a 40C/40P/20F ratio?

Again, either. Maybe even both. No carbs on non training, 40/40/20 on wo days. Really it is a very flexible protocol, and should be treated like any other time you have dieted in terms of macros. You can then adjust from there, as the results dictate.

3) I start school in January, and I will most likely be taking morning classes. What would be the best way to set this up? I actually like to do morning cardio but I also like to hit the weights. Is it possible to do two-a-day workouts on LG/IF? If so, do they both need to be done during the fasted state or can weights be done during the 8-hour eating window? This is the part I am having trouble setting up. I think I read that Martin recommends to eat 25% of total cals pre-workout but how should the remaining 75% be set up, just divide them into two meals? Also, I am going to be training partly for basketball by implementing plyos and power-lifts, can I play ball during the 8-hour eating window?

You can train fasted, fed, it doesn't matter. You can do AM cardio, PM lifting, etc.. Doesn't matter. Split your meals as you see fit, and can make work with YOUR schedule.

4) If I do fasted cardio in the morning, can a whey shake be taken after the session, even if I don't break my fast until say for another 3 hours? I plan on using BCAAs but I was just wondering about whey and if the artificial sweeteners can break a fast.
Don't drink a whey shake. Fasting means fasting. Use common sense here. If it has calories, avoid it. BCAA's are fine in the recommended quantities.

5) Lastly, because I cannot live without playing basketball at least 3-4 times a week, would it be OK to play ball AFTER my last meal? The reason being is that sometimes the courts don't clear out until 7 or 8pm, sometimes even later. Right now, I am trying to get my game up so I like practicing by myself. And one more thing, would it be OK to drink some Powerade while I play, if I happen to play after the last meal?
Sure why wouldn't it be fine to play ball after your last meal? And NO, NO powerade if you are in the fasting window. Powerade Zero is fine.
I have a really good feeling about LG/IF and cannot wait to get going. I have been wasting so much time for years trying to nail down a perfect routine when it was practically sitting right in front of me, smh. Sorry for the long read guys, but I would very much appreciate the help and insight.

..........
 
Thanks Frank, I appreciate the input. I pretty much got everything in line and now just wanted to run this by...

Since I can train during the 8-hour window, I plan on doing fasted cardio in the AM. Then during the 8-hour window I plan on working with the weights. Now what would be the best way to incorporate a pre-workout meal? Do you think starting out with 25% of total cals pre-workout is a good way to venture in and then change some things around, if need be? If anything, I'll just eat something light like 25-30g whey shake and a 1/2 cup of oats with one banana, then hit the weights an hour later. Then after workouts I'll divide the remaining cals into two meals. Would that be a good way to get my feet wet?

I'm open to suggestions. Now finding the time to play ball is going to be the tricky part because I'm not going to lie, I practically need my Powerade when I play, even if I play by myself. A lot of my cardio is going to be incorporated with basketball. I think playing right AFTER weights will be the best way to do this since it's not approriate to drink Powerade at any time other than the 8-hour window.
 
I think you are USED to drinking the powerade, and equate it to playing ball/having a good game, but don't NEED it. Sip some BCAA if need be.

You can do the 25% pre, or a smaller meal, and 2 post, it's up to you. I usually eat a whole food meal about 90min pre, which is about 20-25%
 
I think you are USED to drinking the powerade, and equate it to playing ball/having a good game, but don't NEED it. Sip some BCAA if need be.

You can do the 25% pre, or a smaller meal, and 2 post, it's up to you. I usually eat a whole food meal about 90min pre, which is about 20-25%

Well, the thing is, I actually used to play without it and just sipped water when I was getting dehydrated. After I started using Powerade, I felt my game was a lot better. I noticed a big difference in terms of sustained energy, and my ability to drive and explode. It's not like I drink two or three 32 oz. bottles every time I play. I actually get the powder mix and just use half a serving, which doesn't equal the amount found in the bottled ones, which I believe is 2 or 2.5 servings. The amount I use is just enough for me to get back up to par when I get dehydrated. If I intend to play longer than my usual duration, I'll then bump it up to 1 or 1.5 servings, but I feel like I burn it off by the time I am done anyway, so it really shouldn't hinder my gains; heck, if anything I've noticed that it helps with my recovery afterwards. I do intend on mixing BCAAs into it too. However, if I feel that it's not helping with gains (that includes fat loss), I will drop it.
 
i was wondering what everyones thoughts were on the fast and taking tests i knwo its a wier question but alot of my tests for shcool were/are in the morning an i jsut felt like my brain wasnt working.....the brain does work on glucose.....
 
F355 said:
Well, the thing is, I actually used to play without it and just sipped water when I was getting dehydrated. After I started using Powerade, I felt my game was a lot better. I noticed a big difference in terms of sustained energy, and my ability to drive and explode. It's not like I drink two or three 32 oz. bottles every time I play. I actually get the powder mix and just use half a serving, which doesn't equal the amount found in the bottled ones, which I believe is 2 or 2.5 servings. The amount I use is just enough for me to get back up to par when I get dehydrated. If I intend to play longer than my usual duration, I'll then bump it up to 1 or 1.5 servings, but I feel like I burn it off by the time I am done anyway, so it really shouldn't hinder my gains; heck, if anything I've noticed that it helps with my recovery afterwards. I do intend on mixing BCAAs into it too. However, if I feel that it's not helping with gains (that includes fat loss), I will drop it.

Like I said you are equating it to a good game. If you eat a whole food meal with some carbs prior you should be fine.

How about a stim free pre workout like ultima?
 
i was wondering what everyones thoughts were on the fast and taking tests i knwo its a wier question but alot of my tests for shcool were/are in the morning an i jsut felt like my brain wasnt working.....the brain does work on glucose.....

brain works better one ketones, along with other systems...

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i was wondering what everyones thoughts were on the fast and taking tests i knwo its a wier question but alot of my tests for shcool were/are in the morning an i jsut felt like my brain wasnt working.....the brain does work on glucose.....

You sure it isn't in your head? I just recently took most of my college finals during my fasting window and did extremely well on them.
 
Like I said you are equating it to a good game. If you eat a whole food meal with some carbs prior you should be fine.

How about a stim free pre workout like ultima?

I'll give it a go. I was always under the assumption that drinking a high-sugar drink during strenuous activities can be beneficial to your level of play.

Oh and I'm already ahead of you. :sly: Ultima will be the first thing in my cart as soon as that ball drops on the 31st. I literally would put an order right now but I'm a little frugal and don't want to pay for shipping twice. I have been very eager to try Ultima. I have been patiently waiting for too long now.
 
brain works better one ketones, along with other systems...

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You do feel pretty alert when your in ketosis.

I agree. When I took on a ketogenic routine for the first time, there was definitely a difference in terms of sustained energy.

Thanks for that study ssbackwards. I like the fact they state in the abstract that a very-low carbohydrate diet resulted in a decrease in fat mass and increase in lean mass in...(here's the kicker)...NORMAL-WEIGHT MEN.
 
Thanks for that study ssbackwards. I like the fact they state in the abstract that a very-low carbohydrate diet resulted in a decrease in fat mass and increase in lean mass in...(here's the kicker)...NORMAL-WEIGHT MEN.
It definitely works.


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well im bulking, u think i coul effectively do a keto diet/bulk/ and do IF?

hell yes you can.

but with keto bulk id add in all veggies.

peppers onions squash zuchini avocado, also add in nut butters etc hemp spreads. but stay away from the uber starchy ****. its not necessarily keto, bc onions and peppers and all that **** has carbs. its more paleo without the fruit.


nut butters have decent carbs per serving but i wouldnt worry about them.

for example having 10 tablespoons of PB will give 35 carb, will you care? nope. but getting direct super starchy sources like sweet potato, regular potato, pasta and all that off limits. so it essentially a low carb ketoish bulk bc of the percentages.
 
Is it ok to use StarChem Labs Evolution 10 during my fast (during workout)? I am actually going to mix a half scoop... which would be 20 calories, 2g carb, 8g protein, 10m6 vit b6, 101mg magnesium, 10mg chormium, 5g bcaa, 2.5g creatine

and im going to mix that with 1.5 scoops of xtend and .5 scoop of bulk luecine... so thats looking to be

4.3g L-Leucine
1.3g L-Glutamine
0.9g L-Isoleucine
0.9g L-Valine
0.5 Citruline Malate

Plus 5g of BCAA (L-Leucine, L-Isoleucine, and L-Valine) from Evo 10

So probably around a 4:1:1 ratio approximately. Mostly I was just wondering if its ok to use the EVO 10 with the whoping 2 carbs for a half serving.

I've already been doing a fasting/LG for the last couple weeks and my weight is up and I'm looking leaner
 
hell yes you can.

but with keto bulk id add in all veggies.

peppers onions squash zuchini avocado, also add in nut butters etc hemp spreads. but stay away from the uber starchy ****. its not necessarily keto, bc onions and peppers and all that **** has carbs. its more paleo without the fruit.


nut butters have decent carbs per serving but i wouldnt worry about them.

for example having 10 tablespoons of PB will give 35 carb, will you care? nope. but getting direct super starchy sources like sweet potato, regular potato, pasta and all that off limits. so it essentially a low carb ketoish bulk bc of the percentages.

ok so do like 6 days a week of jsut veggies/butters as "carbs" then maybe a "refeed day" on the 7nth with high carbs low fats? cuz im gonna ahve to take in like 200g fat at least to get my 3300 calories
 
thats fine i would say i easily do that.

i hit 2900 cals, not including the peppers onions and balsamic i use for my chili.

my fat was 187 and protein 274

all i had was 3 lbs 93/7 turkey, 7 ounce goat cheese, 3 servings guac.

thats what i counted in my 2890 calories.

didnt iclude 4 large bell peppers and 2 sweet onions and about 12 tablespoon balsamic (went in chili to help tenderize)

between those things i didnt add i assume... 300 calories being that each onion is bout 12 carb, and balsamic is 5 per tablespoon i used bout 12 in the entire 3 lbs.
 
ssbackwards said:
thats fine i would say i easily do that.

i hit 2900 cals, not including the peppers onions and balsamic i use for my chili.

my fat was 187 and protein 274

all i had was 3 lbs 93/7 turkey, 7 ounce goat cheese, 3 servings guac.

thats what i counted in my 2890 calories.

didnt iclude 4 large bell peppers and 2 sweet onions and about 12 tablespoon balsamic (went in chili to help tenderize)

between those things i didnt add i assume... 300 calories being that each onion is bout 12 carb, and balsamic is 5 per tablespoon i used bout 12 in the entire 3 lbs.

Interesting take on food choice. Any reason why you chose to have most of your fats come from avocado?
 
Interesting take on food choice. Any reason why you chose to have most of your fats come from avocado?

just how the day worked out.

tomorrow is another turkey chili day so itll look like that again.

great fats in avacado.

i switch to chicken on thursday, and get my fats from goat cheese and pecan/macadamia nut butter that i made. i should get in my EVCO with my broccoli but funds have been pretty tight, even thoough not expensive, when you eat over 3 lbs of meat a day, along with produce it gets costly.
 
ssbackwards said:
just how the day worked out.

tomorrow is another turkey chili day so itll look like that again.

great fats in avacado.

i switch to chicken on thursday, and get my fats from goat cheese and pecan/macadamia nut butter that i made. i should get in my EVCO with my broccoli but funds have been pretty tight, even thoough not expensive, when you eat over 3 lbs of meat a day, along with produce it gets costly.

Hear you on the cost man... Thanks for the reply.
 
That's why I love me some hunting. $65 dollars to have my deer processed. Got 87 lbs of meet off of it and it wasn't a large bodied deer. Looking to get one more for harvest to load up the deep freezer. Mmmmm, venison steaks anyone?
 
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