The dissapearing man
- Thread starter Smont
- Start date
Hyde
Legend
High frequency is the best way for me to train back, as far as my personal results. A lot of powerlifters have found this to be true, and really you see it play out in Strongman as well.
If you are using something all of the time, it will have to adapt to handle that stressor. So even if you aren’t taking it to failure or doing lots of sets in any given session, if the intensity is sufficient and the weekly volume is there it still requires adaptation.
I made my best gains with direct work picking one movement per day, 3-4x a week. I feel my upper back was probably biggest when doing strongman training with next to no direct upper back work. Just having to pick, carry, and lap objects like stones, kegs, & sangbags or cleaning & supporting logs and axles for overhead press work did all of the stimulation necessary. There’s nothing a volume DB row is going to do better than just routinely picking up stuff that weighs as much or more than you do.
60mg Epistane is the sweetspot. I’m not saying it’s low side, but it really keeps yielding through that point. I didn’t feel 80 did any more than ~60, but 60 is way better than 40.
If you are using something all of the time, it will have to adapt to handle that stressor. So even if you aren’t taking it to failure or doing lots of sets in any given session, if the intensity is sufficient and the weekly volume is there it still requires adaptation.
I made my best gains with direct work picking one movement per day, 3-4x a week. I feel my upper back was probably biggest when doing strongman training with next to no direct upper back work. Just having to pick, carry, and lap objects like stones, kegs, & sangbags or cleaning & supporting logs and axles for overhead press work did all of the stimulation necessary. There’s nothing a volume DB row is going to do better than just routinely picking up stuff that weighs as much or more than you do.
60mg Epistane is the sweetspot. I’m not saying it’s low side, but it really keeps yielding through that point. I didn’t feel 80 did any more than ~60, but 60 is way better than 40.
Smont
Legend
Yes you braise it, honestly it works better doing it in the oven.
Those Are beef shanks, Not quite as tender as a veal shank or a lamb shank. I wanted to do it 4 hours But we were pretty hungry and we rushed it, 2hrs. Because the beef wasn't as tender as I wanted it to be, I pulled it off the bone and then sliced it thin and threw it back in. All fresh ingredients, Even the tomato paste was from the garden tomatoes, I used a beef stock that we made earlier this year And the only thing that wasn't fresh was the undon noodles. My kids destroyed it lol!!! You know who Pretended like she wasn't hungry. And then I caught her eating it like two hours later.
For anyone who doesn't know what a beef shank is, I think it's basically like your bicep or your quad right before the elbow or knee
Smont
Legend
Yes!
time to eat the skittles. 50mg it is
Hyde
Legend
Yes!time to eat the skittles. 50mg it is
time to eat the skittles. 50mg it is
Good luck to your joints, can’t remember if you are on deca or not.
MrKleen73
Legend
I really enjoy working things with more frequency too. I find it a lot more manageable on my joints, and have no issues with recovery doing so. However my coach has me on a once a week deal for everything but Arms, hamstrings and glutes. They are 2 a week but they are also points that need to come up. So we shall see. I have enough gear running through me to keep my MPS going with once a week training anyway so I am just enjoying the process now.
MrKleen73
Legend
More like an Albino Rhino!
gphagan1
Legend
Well obviously it does that in humans as well. That’s cool because I had never thought about it until you brought it up, and realized it does seem to have a positive effect on mood.
But I got to be honest, I read the article to see how they determined the mice were depressed, just out of curiosity.
Smont
Legend
LolWell obviously it does that in humans as well. That’s cool because I had never thought about it until you brought it up, and realized it does seem to have a positive effect on mood.
But I got to be honest, I read the article to see how they determined the mice were depressed, just out of curiosity.
Smont
Legend
Im not on deca but i feel like we bern over this a few timw. Deca does nothing for my joints and i dont believe ive ever experiences dry or sore joints from steroids, maybe last time i used a oral but i already seem to have had knee issues and it waa only in my knees. I also have no intenisions of using 50mg of epistane, i just agree every time you say anything that i can twist into take more and pretend im gonna do it lol. Im probably just gonna put the epistane in my drawer. And im actually thinking about switching from eq to deca but im not sure how to go about it because i have not used deca in YEARS, ive done some npp 100-300mg.
So i was thinking one of 2 things.
Option 1. Keep test at 600, drop the 600eq and 70 tren (started tren at 70, went to 105 and then 140 and there was no noticable difference so i went back to 70.
So drop everything but the 600 test and start 100-200deca. Let that build while the eq dips and after 4 weeks start working the deca dose up. I would probably add in masteron too so i was eventually on 600 test, and mast with 300 deca and that would probably be the peak.
Now if i do that, this cycle might end up a total of 6 months long.
Option 2.
Stay on test and eq and swap the 70 tren for 200 deca and go 10 weeks of that, cutting the eq week 6 of deca and id keep the deca at 100 on my cruise as long as theres no health issues or sides with 200-250 test.
My 3rd option i just thought of now and its definately the healthiest approach.
Stop what im on at newyears, pin nothing for 3weeks and go straight into a low dose sustainable cruise with some extras.
Test 250, deca 100, gh 4iu maybe, telmasartan 40mg, cailis 5mg and play around with some insulin pens on my high days. Something tells me i could hold on to everything and grow on that and when im ready to blast just up the dose 1.5-2x doses and go from there.
I did a lot of this msg talk to text while making breakfast. I went back and fixed **** but im sure theres loads of typos in there.
I guess before i make any decisions i gotta get bloods. Im actually excited to see what they are because even tho i only been on these doses a few weeks i was on 900 total mg before the bump and i feel pretty good this whole cycle. Outside some issues with the lady its been smooth sailing and ive managed to not feed in at all. Skin looks good, maybe 2 zits on my spine but thats it. I like my cyckes to feel like trt and it definately does. Only the mirror shows that im on cycle
MrKleen73
Legend
I think they all make sense, so it really comes down to this in my opinion. Do you feel you will be better served finishing this one out the rest of the year then cruising for a little bit and blasting again when you can push more on legs. That or are you comfortable running a cycle for 6 months as long as your bloodwork isn't too out of sorts? For instance this cycle I am on is going to get extended longer than my typical cycle would be so long as my blood work is looking decent. Those would be the two biggest considerations for me. I only mentioned the options on 1 or 3 because those are the ones I like the look of the best. However, we are in different situations.
gphagan1
Legend
I like the sound of the Test, Deca, Mast cycle, building up to Test 600, Deca 300, and say Mast 300. If your bloods are good that would be a great cycle with where your physique is already. But really all three options sound good.
Hyde
Legend
I wasn’t joking about the Epistane; if you get no joint sides on it I see zero reason not to play that card. Epistane is the ****, it just makes me feel like ****. If you feel fine it’s a gangster compound and you should take 50mg.
Drop the EQ out, add Epistane, then begin titrating the deca up. Use the oral to bridge that gap and help offset the progesterone receptor interaction as deca comes on board.
Drop the EQ out, add Epistane, then begin titrating the deca up. Use the oral to bridge that gap and help offset the progesterone receptor interaction as deca comes on board.
gphagan1
Legend
Epistane and Winstrol both kill my joints now, but when I could run Epistane, I liked it better than Winstrol.
Smont
Legend
Ohhhh boy. Now i have so much to ponder lol
I dont hate this lol.
I like epistane better too. A lot better.
Smont
Legend
Im headed to ups right now actually. I just tried to pull up your tracking to see if you got yiur stuff yet and the tracking dont exist. Or i should say the tracking dosent seem to be attached to the box. It should have arived wedensday or yesterday with the 3 day shipping because im pretty sure i sent it out saturday afternoon or monday afternoon.
MrKleen73
Legend
Me too except for the sides. On average when I would run a 20% under on rest days and 20% over on lifting days and would always end up much leaner with an additional 8-12lbs of scale weight. Serious results but for me serious side effects. One time I was taking a walk and my calves and shins got pumped on my way back. It got so bad I ended up having to sit down a few times for about 5 minutes so I could continue walking back and the walking was slow. I got back 30 minutes late from lunch that day. I just walked in the parking garage for the rest of the cycle so I would be close to work if it happened again. Just brutally painful pumps for me.
MrKleen73
Legend
You shipped it Wednesday so if not going for something else, hold off on that trip. I would expect it today or tomorrow if 3 day shipping.
Yeah these are brutal. I did find some relief bringing in Taurine and Magnesium, Taurine alone wouldn't do the trick.
Smont
Legend
Ive tried lots over the years, nothing really helps. So in between sets i just sit down or leqn against something to rest it and then ignore it during my sets lol. If it makes me rack a weight short, i turn it into a rest pause style so i can get more. So on my workout notes sometimes you guys see me say "rp style" that usually means i racked it a little early so im using rp to get the correct amount of reps and more. I can usually do something like..... 10-12 ish reps, rest 10-12sec and get 5 more and repeat 1 or 2 more times. Sometimes il keep cranking tho and shoot for 30. No real reason, just to see if i can do it lol
MrKleen73
Legend
Yeah, I went back and looked at our DM's to see what day it was. It was midday Wednesday.
Smont
Legend
Thank you, and sorry lol
MrKleen73
Legend
Dude, no need to be sorry at all! We are helping each other out. It's what friends do!
Smont
Legend
There nutz, i wish i knew what was the actual cause, like what does epistane do so much more of that it causes that much more of a pump there.
Woke up at 3am and i could barely breath, lungs are super inflamed and when i cough it feels like strep throat had a love child with the Marlboro man. Came out of nowhere
Hyde
Legend
I read that as the Marlboro man “came” out of nowhere and now there’s a love child
SSJ4GOD
Well-known member
Epistane is much better than winstrol in my opinion. It’s less one dimensional that winny
Smont
Legend
Lol
PolishHamm3r77
Well-known member
Lmfao
Dustin07
Legend
that was the first thing I noticed, solid v taper there
Dustin07
Legend
biggest back I ever had was competing in xfit doing 7 million kipping pull-ups a day.
every time I saw one of those 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 rep memes for disqualifying kipping pull-ups I'd just laugh (once I got over being offended) cause at 176lbs I measured like 46" around the chest with lats flexed.
MrKleen73
Legend
Yeah, to be fair to a bodybuilder or regular workout enthusiast it looks like a half repped kipping pull up and both things are considered bad form for a basic pull up. Those of us in the know, realize it is the base of every single get your body over the bar movement in gymnastics and was done for very specific reasons. Great for conditioning, supplies massive amounts of volume, and harder than they look because they are indeed a head to toe exercise.
Dustin07
Legend
For sure. in my early days the "taught" and "accepted" methodology for L1 and L2 coaches was that you don't introduce kipping to any athlete until they could demonstrate 10 strict pull-ups. over and over you'd see massive shoulder injuries by folks who were too impatient to develop pull-ups, so they'd kip. You wouldn't introduce butterflies until they had 10 kipping pull-ups either. But knocking out sets of 20-40 butterflies left my lats absolutely exploded. Honestly it's probably akin to doing 40 db curls with 20lbss vs 10 curls with 40s. both are valid and both might build a pump.
but I was an outlier. in high school the record was 24 pull-ups so I spent a year working until I had 25. when I was doing 40 butterflies, I could still do 25-30 strict. I did train them weighted a lot back then.
Smont
Legend
You did 25 strict pullups? Thats gnarly. My best was 22 not strict. I dont think ive ever did more then 12 strict pullups in a row without a little english
MrKleen73
Legend
DAMN IT MAN!!!!God damn it. I had a whole post typed With like 20 questions about back training and kipping pull-ups VS regular pull-ups with equal volume and all kinds of stuff blah, blah blah. And I accidentally erased it
Dustin07
Legend
God damn it. I had a whole post typed With like 20 questions about back training and kipping pull-ups VS regular pull-ups with equal volume and all kinds of stuff blah, blah blah. And I accidentally erased it
time to start over. since I assume your cat does most of the typing this is going to take a while lol
yeah I was pretty much always able to hold on to about 25/27 pretty consistently. we would occasionally have competitions and I'd win on most medium weight speed/endurance wods (say anything with up to like a 225lb deadlift, maybe 185 push press etc, and a million pull-ups) but I was never a 500lb deadlift 405lb squat guy. I have no idea why I was good at pull-ups. I went into xfit weighing around 198ish and I think spent the next 5-8years around 178lbs.
to be fair with a shitload of butterfly and strict pull-ups, I could never string together more than like 5-7 ring muscle ups or bar muscle ups. I could do them, but they really were 10x harder for me. I could do more pull-ups than some of the athletes we worked with who could knock out 10-20 MU's.
Smont
Legend
Dude i type everything with 1 thumb on a cellphone. It takes forever And usually has seven billion typos
Smont
Legend
When I interact with clients through text messages VS emails They always think it's two different people. I text like i talk, scatterbrained And always thinking about a million different things. And i type like im in school taking a test lol. On the app im basically just texting here. But in a very lazy manner with one thumb lol
Hyde
Legend
If you end up deciding to retype it just be aware that it is the kind of dumb topic I've probably thought way too much on and would probably end up writing a way too in depth post to answer.
^Shots fired
Smont
Legend
I don't think I have the mental capacity for it today, its mostly about how High frequency high rep stuff seems to work well, but i think if you were to match sets and reps a regular pull up is going to be way more Beneficial in building a big back. It's hard to compare hundreds of kipping Pull ups to a few sets of regular pull ups. But on a even playing field with the same amount of sets and reps pullups will win. Also theres a size factor. 180lb guy vs a 250lb guy. The two hundred and fifty pound guys gonna rip his shoulders out the sockets kipping So he couldn't even do them if he wanted to. I also understand that just because an exercise looks funny to me. Doesn't mean that it doesn't work. I got really good shoulders. And the majority of my shoulder training is side laterals and punching a heavy bag. But I wouldn't tell people that if they want to build shoulders like a body builder, they should hit a heavy bag. There's definitely better ways to build the shoulders.If you end up deciding to retype it just be aware that it is the kind of dumb topic I've probably thought way too much on and would probably end up writing a way too in depth post to answer.