The Bible Study Thread

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toughchick401 said:
Perhaps I might want to try to belive in god, well scratch that I DO BELIVE IN GOD!!! but perhaps its time to not be angry at him...

This comes from my ultrasound tonight on my neck discovering 2 golf ball sized tumors or as the tech said abnormal nodules...SWEET!! so as I layed on the table, crying, (it was painful) and thinking here we go again, I decided what will be will be, and no more anger. I named my abnormal nodules (lame right) but now it's no more treatments, no more radiation, nothing....a yr, 2 or months I let "him" decide,my time is my time. And if it;s sooner than later, I can only hope to see my sister again.

Thanks for the well wishes, and advice, and the guidance in finding my way so to speak.
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Please read the book i was telling glenihan about.....it will teach you everything you need to know about faith so you can do what is necessary to be healed


This sickness is not a punishment for punishment is not in this lifetime. Your sickness has been created by your thoughts(the book will explain). This lifetime is a time for learning and is a necessary step to obtain a body.
 
DmitryWI said:
I agree with you on this one. Although, it's not nessesary you'll go to hell because you didn't believe to God. Hell is earth and after you die your soul don't go up to the light and it'll be screaming or crying or doing something else for eternity, it's what hell is and as far as I know only people who killed themselves don't get to heaven and some who died in accident because of drugs or alcohol.
If somebody pray for them hard enough they still have a chance to get to heaven.
Hitler and Stalin are in heaven too, you know.
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I dont know what religion you are in particular but in mormonism we believe that earth will become the Celestial Kingdom.(just trying to give people an idea of mormonism). As far as people dying by accident with drugs, i am sure there irresponsible behavior will be frowned upon by God but i doubt he will clump them together with intentional suicides.

Also regarding suicide and all sin for that matter. Here are some thoughts i have settled very comfortably on. Everyone in prison(actual prison not spiritual) thinks they are innocent. At the moment they committed whatever crime they committed it made perfect sense in there mind. We are all trying to do the best we can and make sense of this life. I think judgement will be very personally applied. What i am trying to say is everyone is doing the best they can......love them.
 
I was born as lutheran, raised as atheist and now I have my own understanding of God and whole spiritual world.
Like I said before it's been only a year and I still am learning, but I have learned a lot from my spiritually gifted friend, who can see things normal people can't.
 
There is nothing to fear. We are always safe. Fear is only a state of mind, replace it with thoughts of peace, love, harmony, joy, health, wealth,and abundance.
I do not fear death, I welcome it though i love and cherish my life. In death we will meet our loving Father who is in heaven, all of lifes questions will be answered (but dont worry about the questions just focus on loving one another), we will meet our ancestors and rejoice with them in paradise. Eventually our whole family will pass from this life and we will be reunited.
There is no such thing as goodbye's, do not dread a lovedone's passing.
 
I am absolutely not trying to steer anyone to God using scare tactics, nor do I find it acceptable to believe in God simply out of fear of the consequences - this is not true belief. I was only giving ideas to consider. But, honestly, I'll take any way I can get to bring someone to a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. If I scare you into knowing and loving Him, so be it, so long as the love and faith are true.
 
TheCrownedOne said:
I am absolutely not trying to steer anyone to God using scare tactics, nor do I find it acceptable to believe in God simply out of fear of the consequences - this is not true belief. I was only giving ideas to consider. But, honestly, I'll take any way I can get to bring someone to a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. If I scare you into knowing and loving Him, so be it, so long as the love and faith are true.
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If you are responding to my post i wasnt attacking you.... i was comforting toughchick and professing my sincere beliefs
 
hello to everyone! I am new here on AM and am admittedly surprised by the presence of this thread on a bodybuilding board. Not just that it is here, but that after reading the posts from the beginning I noticed that respect has the utmost importance to all involved. I enjoy discussions like this and hope to be able to share my insights and experiences as well as learn and be challenged by other members. I'm impressed!
btw WhiskeySteve, how do you know of Hermes The Thrice Great?
 
Parzival said:
hello to everyone! I am new here on AM and am admittedly surprised by the presence of this thread on a bodybuilding board. Not just that it is here, but that after reading the posts from the beginning I noticed that respect has the utmost importance to all involved. I enjoy discussions like this and hope to be able to share my insights and experiences as well as learn and be challenged by other members. I'm impressed!
btw WhiskeySteve, how do you know of Hermes The Thrice Great?
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I see by your sig that we probably share some of the same beliefs

I have heard of him in different books i have read about the mind. The particular book i have been pushing everyone to read "The Power of the Subconscious Mind", says this about him.
"In the ancient world, Hermes Trismegistus had the reputation of being the greatest, most powerful magnus the world had ever known. When his tomb was opened, centuries after his passing, those who were in touch with the wisdom of the ancients waited with great expectancy and a sense of wonder. It was said that the greatest secret of the ages would be found within the tomb. And so it was. The secret was: "As within, so without; As above so below." In other words, whatever you impress in your subcontious mind, that becomes expressed on the screen of space."

This is talking about faith. Once you believe it(As within) it will become true physically/ it will manifest itself (so without). And in the Lords prayer Christ says "thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven. (As above, so below)
 
If only the members on this board would study to know the life altering/saving importance of your sig......
What religion are you if you dont mind me asking(completely ignore this if you do not feel comfortable sharing)




Another scripture of Major significance is Mark 11:12 "What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye recieve them, and ye shall have them."
Notice the tenses, it doesnt say believe that ye will(eventually) recieve them; but instead it says believe that ye recieve them, and ye shall have them.

People ask how can i believe that i have already received them(whatever your praying for) if i do not have it. This is an important question because from that aspect you cant; your conscious mind will only believe it has it once it has it if you try it this way. So what you need to do is get into a drowsy state and picture a scenario where you have what it is you want, feel it, smell it, touch it, hear it, see it, hold it, ect. If you do this properly and really let go with your conscious mind it will feel as real as anything you have ever experienced(because it is real, you are making spritual creations). In this way you can in essence trick the conscious mind that you have recieved it(what your praying for). This needs to be repeated many times to bring the desired result into reality but youd be supprised what some of this at even minimal effort will produce. this is called scientific prayer. i hope i have explained it well

Here is a visualization exercise:
close your eyes- now picture a number one- picture it is a cut out of 1/4in thick wood- you have markers in front of you, color it any color you would like- now pick up your number one- set it down so it is standing up- now lay it back down and then turn it and balance it on its side
That is an entry level visualization but hopefully i have given you an introductory taste of how real it can be.



Another thing you can do that i kind of mentioned earlier is Endoctorinating yourself....
Many of you have probably already heard of doing positive affirmations. the problem with these though is that in most cases your conscious mind will be fighting the affirmation because it knows that it is not true. this can produce a negative effect as you will be focusing on what is wrong and not the new bright thought you are trying to absorb.
So how can you get around this...... just repeat the words: Peace, Joy, Love, Health, Wealth, Abundance, Harmony, ect. and your subconsciouse mind will eventually start to pick of these concepts (as is the nature of the subcontious to record habitual thinking) and apply them. This gets around the conscious mind because though you may be sick you are not saying i am healthy, you are just repeating the word health.
Repeat each of these word for five minutes a day a piece, repeat them slowly and meaningfully and it will make a difference.
 
That which is above is like that which is below, that which is below is like that which is above, as all things were produced by the meditation of the One...Thus will you possess the honors of the whole world, and darkness will flee from you.
Ya it is the called The Emerald Tablet of Hermes and was said to contain all that mankind hed ever known, and all we would ever know as well as being a procedure for producing the Stone of the Wise. It was studied by many great minds like Isaac Newton among others. That is very perceptive of you to equate the hermetic axiom with the Lord's Prayer, as I believe hermetic precepts are found in the teachings of Jesus if one looks hard enough. Regarding our modern Bible, I also think many christians overlook or neglect the many esoteric ideas it contains both in the Old and New Testaments. Also we tend to forget that Jesus or more correctly Yeshua or YeHoSHVaH is a Jew and that Christianity is a reformation, albeit radical, of existing Judaic doctrine. Peace
 
Oh just noticed your reply after I just posted that. I was raised as a christian, I prayed the sinners prayer and accepted Jesus into my life officially at age twelve. Since then my life has seen great joy, a lot of stupid mistakes and harsh trials as well but I believe Life as a creation of God is an ongoing process(some would call it The Great Work), that to use an analogy of masonry, Jesus is the cornerstone on the ground that gets laid first as well as the cornerstone that completes the building at its top. I believ that that salvation must be self-executed and self devised not something you complete just by saying a prayer. I think this what Paul meant when he said to "work out your own salvation in fear and trembling for it is God that worketh in you" (don't have my Bible handy so its not word for word)I don't believe that Heaven is a "place" we go when we "die" but rather the absolute reality of the One Life we may and can experience while still in the body i.e. "The Kingdom of Heaven is within"
 
Parzival said:
Also we tend to forget that Jesus or more correctly Yeshua or YeHoVSHuaH is a Jew and that Christianity is a reformation, albeit radical, of existing Judaic doctrine. Peace
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I think i follow. Christ was a Jew until he founded his own Church.

im headed to bed but i am sure you know a lot more about this than me or than any other board members...Please share more with us (or maybe make a new thread depending on how TheUnlikelyToad feels about all this)
 
Yeah its pretty late so later bro for sure. I enjoy sharing these things so I look forward to possibly discussing more. I'm eagerly awaiting the replies of some other members as well who seem to have something to share( and aren't night owls like me lol). Your post was well thought out btw especially in regards to the unconsious and the latent power of the imagination. good talkin and God bless.
 
Parzival said:
Oh just noticed your reply after I just posted that. I was raised as a christian, I prayed the sinners prayer and accepted Jesus into my life officially at age twelve. Since then my life has seen great joy, a lot of stupid mistakes and harsh trials as well but I believe Life as a creation of God is an ongoing process(some would call it The Great Work), that to use an analogy of masonry, Jesus is the cornerstone on the ground that gets laid first as well as the cornerstone that completes the building at its top. I don't believe that Heaven is a "place" we go when we "die" but rather the absolute reality of the One Life we may and can experience while still in the body i.e. "The Kingdom of Heaven is within"
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I believe you can experience heaven or hell in this lifetime, or both as i personally feel i have.

Furthermore i dont believe that paradise/spirit prison, the two different places people have said we will wait for judgement in are two different places. For one to go to paradise and one to go to spirit prison must mean that you have already been judged. I think rather that we all go to the same location that is paradise to those of a clean conscience and well kept mind and is spirit prison to those who cannot or have not yet forgiven themselves or accepted Christ Attonment yet.

Yes happiness is a state of mind, you can choose to be happy or you can choose to be violently depressed by the thoughts you choose to entertain in your mind.


What are your thoughts on the judgement and the three kindoms
 
could you just pm me..... i dont have and email address i just use my dads, and using his would tell you his last name which i would rather not do considering i attacked some of the errors of our church earlier on in this thread.

why cant i private message on this site, is that something reserved for gold member and whatnot or is there something wrong with my account
 
Parzival, i just realized that i did not read your post #163 all the way through. Very true concept, you do not have to wait for the judgement to enter into heaven..... or hell. We tend to think that this life is supposed to be miserable and when we die it will be all better. I encourage you all to not think of it so much as two separate phases, those who are in hell in this life will surely be in hell in the next life.

Keep in mind that the most sever anguish that can be inflicted is not upon the body but upon the mind. We tend to focus on Christ being crucified and think that was the worst part. But the Garden of Gethsemany is where the real pain took place. What you think will produce a physical result as i was mentioning earlier. But even with the best visualizations the physical result will take time. In Christ's case the mental agony that was set upon his mind for the sins of the world caused him to BLEED FROM EVERY PORE......IMMEDIATELLY!!!!! Bleading from every pore was just a byproduct of the real agony that was going on.
His death by crusifiction was just "in addition to the Attonment" but was still a nescessary step because he had to give his life to in essence "seal" the Attonment.
this post is and addition to my post #166
 
Steve, may I ask why you believe hell is only a state of mind when we have the story of the rich man and Lazarus?

Luke
16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Everything I underlined bears witness to a physical place where physical actions take place. Now, Paradise is no longer in hell, or is no longer occupied, but hell remains in the heart of the earth (Matthew 12:40).

Mark
9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
 
TheCrownedOne said:
Steve, may I ask why you believe hell is only a state of mind when we have the story of the rich man and Lazarus?

Luke
16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Everything I underlined bears witness to a physical place where physical actions take place. Now, Paradise is no longer in hell, or is no longer occupied, but hell remains in the heart of the earth (Matthew 12:40).

Mark
9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
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I dont have all the answers yet. I guess i did goof my wording though. Of coarse there is always a spiritual and physical part/version of everything. I have i guess accidentally been speaking of paradise (immediate holding place after death) and referinging to it as heaven. I did this by accident because so many people say we die and go to heaven and i accidentaly refered to the prejudgment state as heaven.

I dont know what i think of that scripture and how to interpret it.....i have somewhat been taught that hell is a place for murderers and sons of perdition(those who have a Perfect knowledge of the truth and then walk away from it). Even then just because i say murderers go to hell doesn't mean they cant come out of it, it just means that Christ will not attone for thier sins. for example: The king in the bible(it actually might be in the book of mormon...not sure) (i cant rememer his name) who repeatedly commited adultry with a mans wife and eventually she became pregnant. This kings people were at war the king told the leaders of his army to put the womans husband on the front lines and then forsake him so he may be killed. This was done and then the king married the woman so the child would be legit. Christ told this king that he would not atone for murder but that the king would still have the opportunity to attone for his one sins.

anywho, sorry if i have accidentally said things that contradict each other.


What i have been trying to do is get everyone to abandon all fear. If they focus on the concepts I have been talking about all sins will fall away and will also cease to be a temptation.

i just edited out the part where i said (which is all i believe it will ever be)........i dont know why i put that in in the first place and thank you for bringing it up so i would realize my error
 
Whiskey Steve said:
If you are responding to my post i wasnt attacking you.... i was comforting toughchick and professing my sincere beliefs
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thanks for trying to comfort me..I am doing ok, really. Whatever happens, happens.
 
toughchick401 said:
thanks for trying to comfort me..I am doing ok, really. Whatever happens, happens.My only regret is pushing away loved ones, as i wont have anyone go through this with me ( relationships, not family) and for that i have hurt someone I love. But my intentions were good,
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Sorry this is offtopic, but since I noticed Julia Stiles in your avatar, I thought I'd like to mention, that she is one of my cousin's highschool friends.


I remember when The Devil's Own came out, we all went to the theatres together to watch it. We were all like, "This is too cool, Diana's friend is in this movie with Harrison Ford!"
 
poopypants said:
ya bro that was king david. the same who slew the giant goliath.

well whiskey seeing as your not correctly representing our faith i would just like to ask you that you refer to your comments as your beliefs and personal opinions since much of it slighlty deviates from church docterine. belive me though when i say i respect your belifs and ideas as they are your own and will be dicided by only you. the whole reason i wanted to talk to you was specifically because of some of the things you stated earlier in the thread regarding the history of the church and wanted to know the source of this information or if its just hearsay, or maybe something some proffesor or your pops told you. i dont know your still very young and impressionable and in your little utah bubble, many of these people dont have a clue what your talking about with the three degrees of glory and the celestial kingdom since i think we are the only ones who hold this belief, remember if your trying to inform these people you need to teachthem to crawl before they can walk. i would like to ask thnat you enjoy our similarites with others in this thread and dicontinue spouting off random church docterine unless asked about it. sorry im not trying to be confrontational at all just making my own request and if you really want then make an account over at atomicnutrition.com forums and pm me there so we can discuss some things, its free over there to pm. speaking of wich i need to see if BoBo will take a money order for a donation..... :run:
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THIS IS TRUE EVERYONE, NOT EVERYTHING I HAVE SAID IS COMMONLY ACCEPTED BY THE LDS CHURCH..........DO NOT TAKE ME AS A SPOKES PERSON FOR THIS CHURCH, I AM JUST TEACHING MY BELIEFS AND HOW I APPLY THEM WITH THE MORMON RELIGION.
and i deleted post 91 which is now someone elses because it was in such glaring opposition to commonly accepted mormon beliefs
 
i really cant bro, i can be severly pentalized in my standing in the mormon church for the views i expressed earlier which i now deleated....and possible others

i dont know who you know as far as mods and such on different forums who could access my email and give it to you and such. i really wish to remain unidentified at this point
 
The only thing that sends a person to hell is their choosing to reject Christ's work on the cross. Not believing is the same as rejection. The only thing that determines where you go for eternity is whether or not you've trusted Christ alone for your salvation. Take Ted Bundy for instance. He professed to becoming a Christian while awaiting his execution. Only our Lord can know for certain if he truly got saved or if it was a ruse, but I can only take him at his word that he did repent and trust Christ. But despite the unfortunate choices he made in his life and the sins he committed, if he did get saved then he is in Christ's presence in Heaven as we speak; he's not in paradise, limbo, pergatory, or wherever some would have you believe - he's in heaven. When the Bible refers to murderers, adulterers, etc. not going to heaven it refers to those who die lost and in their sins. When you get saved, God no longer sees your sins but sees the blood of Christ: in a sense, you die sinless. But wherever one goes after death, they go there forever. You go to hell, you stay in hell; you go to heaven, you stay in heaven (although God is unclear in regards to who wil inhabit the new heaven and new earth).
 
TheCrownedOne said:
The only thing that sends a person to hell is their choosing to reject Christ's work on the cross. Not believing is the same as rejection. The only thing that determines where you go for eternity is whether or not you've trusted Christ alone for your salvation. Take Ted Bundy for instance. He professed to becoming a Christian while awaiting his execution. Only our Lord can know for certain if he truly got saved or if it was a ruse, but I can only take him at his word that he did repent and trust Christ. But despite the unfortunate choices he made in his life and the sins he committed, if he did get saved then he is in Christ's presence in Heaven as we speak; he's not in paradise, limbo, pergatory, or wherever some would have you believe - he's in heaven. When the Bible refers to murderers, adulterers, etc. not going to heaven it refers to those who die lost and in their sins. When you get saved, God no longer sees your sins but sees the blood of Christ: in a sense, you die sinless. But wherever one goes after death, they go there forever. You go to hell, you stay in hell; you go to heaven, you stay in heaven (although God is unclear in regards to who wil inhabit the new heaven and new earth).
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My mormon views (though not officially accurate, i am not a spokesperson) slightly differ from Catholic view, (i just assumed thats what you are, correct me if im wrong).
I am glad that for the most part though we have discussed what we have in common not what we dont. This thread has remained in its path of proving that God does exist and that Chrisianity is true and hasn't become a religion to religion bash fest.
 
The impression I got was that all who belive in Christ will be in the new heaven and new earth and God will dwell with people forever.
 
I have read much of the Book of Mormon and have spoken with several of its followers. Moreover, I have researched its history a great deal. These have lead me from it.
 
rockstar6181 said:
The impression I got was that all who belive in Christ will be in the new heaven and new earth and God will dwell with people forever.
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Well, all who have accepted Christ as Savior will be in His presence for eternity, but I meant that I don't know who will inhabit the new heaven and who will inhabit the new earth. We can't be in both.
 
As far as the sources of comments i was making earlier about mormonism(i deleated), a lot of it was things my Grandfather taught me who pretty well dedicated his life to the study of religion (LDS church specifically). He did nothing but research his whole life. So some of it came from him, and some of it came from other books i have read which are not anti mormon and are written by mormons who the church has turned anti agianst.lol
In reality (my beliefs) the church has turned agianst it own beliefs; it does not preach some of the same things that made mormonism so wonderful in the first place. Many instances why this has occured is because the things we were preaching (which i will not even mention) are supposed to be taught by revelation.
(again i an not a spokesperson for the LDS Church)
 
TheCrownedOne said:
I have read much of the Book of Mormon and have spoken with several of its followers. Moreover, I have researched its history a great deal. These have lead me from it.
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I greatly value your opinion as you are very well read.

As for the members you asked i would like to say that very few members (i would estimate 20%) have actually read the The Book of Mormon, and i would guess that even less have read the Bible. And of those who have read the books, just because they have read them does not mean they understand them. There is a serious lack of nuetral mormon litterature so be sure to read pro along with the con im sure you have read.
 
The most important piece of litterature i think you could read TheCrownedOne is "The Adam-God Maze" by Culley K. Christiansen, M.D. ......do not ask me about this book on this thread as i will say no more about it
(i am not a spokesperson for the LDS Church)
 
poopypants said:
hmmm ok thats cool a little hard to understand and read into what your saying but its ok, my last word of advice is something my dad taught me and its this, dont take anything anyone says for truth, no degree (proffesor; many people take their word for truth), no stature (standing in authority) or supposed research done by someone else should be taken as truth. you should fervently pray about your beliefs and decide for yourself through the guidance of the spirit as to where you place your beliefs. i hope you do this. and with that im done.
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When i have time i will try to find the sources of the info i posted....and i completely understand your concern about their validity
 
poopypants said:
what if they were one and the same? the new heaven is the new earth reborn in all its glory?
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Revelation
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and
the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 Peter
3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

I gather that there will be a new heaven to replace the house of God that exists now and a new earth to replace our current one that will be burned away. Perhaps will we be able to pass freely from one to the other, I don't know. Regardless, whatever happens, it's going to be "worth it all."
 
I post this in the spirit of free discussion. Feel free to remove it if it is found to be unacceptable. Were I a Mormon this would be disconcerting: [unintentional offence]
 
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I do not wish to comment concerning all the antagonistic stories about mormonism. I have not studied our history enough to to combat your stories so i will not attempt to; I only know our doctorine and I am far from being an authority on that. I have not examined that link to really know what it contains. To all those who do read it dont take it as fact,( its on the internet for crying out loud).

Remember that there are a ton of people out there who visciously hate the mormon chuch (to be honest i dont know why). There have been many attempts to attack Joseph Smiths credibility. For example, i dont know who of you have heard but there was a document called the salemandar letter a while back. It talked about Joseph Smith recieving revelations from a reptile and whatnot. This was a huge shock until the document was examined and found to be fake. People are going to great lengths in attemps to destroy our reputation....dont buy into their lies/stories
Dont worry so much about our church members because man is not perfect; also many members dont know what they are talking about as i mentioned earlier. I would however encourage you to study our doctorine.
 
In respect for Poopypants and other mormons i would like the thread to return to its original intent. I do not wish to be responsible for the defense of the LDS Church in this thread.
 
TheCrownedOne said:
Revelation
21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and
the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 Peter
3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

I gather that there will be a new heaven to replace the house of God that exists now and a new earth to replace our current one that will be burned away. Perhaps will we be able to pass freely from one to the other, I don't know. Regardless, whatever happens, it's going to be "worth it all."
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this is a very interesting read that I had covered on this very topic some time ago it MAY answer some of your questions!!!

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:) I could never build a house by tearing my neighbors down. But hey that`s just me.

WS thanks for reminding me of the book you mentioned. I read it before and now after pulling it out again see that I made it maybe 75% through before moving on. First half grabbed me but the second.. Well I am not really sure why or what came next.

Hell is here on earth. I lived there for many years. Gehenna! You know what the hardest part of being an addict is? The cover up! I lied to everybody... even when the truth would do. After you tell so many lies to so many people you then have to recall what you said to each. That is a full time job! Then there comes a point where you have lied so much YOU begin to believe your own bullshit. Every waking moment is spent in defense of your addiction. Protect it at all cost!
There is no time to relax. Except maybe when your stoned but even then you need to worry about your next high. Peace?!? The only piece I needed was of the rock... which I crushed and stuck up my nose. Lying, cheating and stealing thats what I did.
Guilt? Remorse? Or any E-motion for that matter. Washed them away with the perfect solvent. Oblivion!
Or so I thought. Then things turned.
I could not do this dance anymore.

I surrendered...

It amazed me the first time I realized that there didn`t need to be anymore LIES! Talk about a stone being removed. This one hung around my neck for years. The overwhelming relief can`t be put into words. Except maybe to say it felt like a fire inside my being was extinguished.:woohoo:
 
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