test boosters or SERM's?

[fmfws185]

As we all know serms are used for pct to get natural test back up, I've been thinking people that run test boosters SWEAR that they work. "They can feel the test" but as we know SERM's actually raise test and has studies to back it up. if I ever wanted to run something to raise test I would use a SERM instead of "testofen". So how come the people in the supplement section log stuff like deisel test. When they can run something that has A LOT of studies behind it, and actually raises test quite a bit. This baffles me.

 

[hardknock]

I'm not sure why this is a complicated thing for you to understand.

I would rather run both or a serm but still I am confused to why you are twisted.

 

[nosnmiveins]

So ur saying ppl should be running "cycles" of nolvadex and/or clomid?

 

[chocolatemilk]

Clomid and nolvadex are medications. Clomid is sometimes prescribed to men with low testosterone levels as a medication. As you know, steroid users have low testosterone levels after a cycle and need the medication.

It's a treatment. A med. Don't look at this like it's a supplement.

Why would you take clomid if you don't have low test?

It's like medicating yourself when there is no sickness present.

Why would you take Nyquil if you don't have a cold?

 

[triton185]

As we all know serms are used for pct to get natural test back up, I've been thinking people that run test boosters SWEAR that they work. "They can feel the test" but as we know SERM's actually raise test and has studies to back it up. if I ever wanted to run something to raise test I would use a SERM instead of "testofen". So how come the people in the supplement section log stuff like deisel test. When they can run something that has A LOT of studies behind it, and actually raises test quite a bit. This baffles me.

They might feel something but it probably is not from their Test levels going up. I really don't care if I get blasted for this but....some Test boosters increase libido and make you feel better but that is about it.

SERMs have side effects and that is why you don't see people running cycles very often and they can hurt libido. BUT, they WILL increase your Test levels....fact. I have some clomid at home left over from an AAS cycle and have actually considered lately the idea of running clomid for a month to increase my Test levels.....but I keep coming back to this fact, Total Test does not necessarily equal better results in the gym and in bodybuilding.

Test levels are not the be all end all that everyone thinks they are......if we all had our test levels checked, we would probably be surprised at the hardgainers with high test levels and the built guys with low test. I just think that there are a lot of genetic factors that combine to give each of us our muscle gaining potential.

Sorry for the long post......I would love to hear others' opinions on this....hopefully someone with more formal education in these areas....the above is just what my gut tells me and the little research that I have done.

 

[deadaim]

Clomid would definitely help raise your tesosterone levels, if they are unaturally supressed or your having a steroid related hormone imbalance or deficiency.

If your homeostatic taking a SERM is retarded, i really beleive that.

 

[nosnmiveins]

Test levels are not the be all end all that everyone thinks they are......if we all had our test levels checked, we would probably be surprised at the hardgainers with high test levels and the built guys with low test. I just think that there are a lot of genetic factors that combine to give each of us our muscle gaining potential.

I can agree with this, even at high doses of test, growth isn't there (for me) unless other counpounds are present....besides water which is there unless an ai is used

 

[fmfws185]

I'm not sure why this is a complicated thing for you to understand.

I would rather run both or a serm but still I am confused to why you are twisted.

im not saying dont run it as a pct im saying running it solo like a test booster

So ur saying ppl should be running "cycles" of nolvadex and/or clomid?

we'll im not saying that they should. im saying preferably but not religiously like they run test boosters. maybe one cycle of a serm every 3-4 months idk.

Clomid and nolvadex are medications. Clomid is sometimes prescribed to men with low testosterone levels as a medication. As you know, steroid users have low testosterone levels after a cycle and need the medication.

It's a treatment. A med. Don't look at this like it's a supplement.

Why would you take clomid if you don't have low test?

It's like medicating yourself when there is no sickness present.

Why would you take Nyquil if you don't have a cold?

well its the same thing as saying why take aas when you already have muscle.

i take anitbiotics every once in a while just to make sure if there is a virus in my system or bacteria it gets wiped out. and has worked so far. i only get sick maybe once or twice a year

They might feel something but it probably is not from their Test levels going up. I really don't care if I get blasted for this but....some Test boosters increase libido and make you feel better but that is about it.

SERMs have side effects and that is why you don't see people running cycles very often and they can hurt libido. BUT, they WILL increase your Test levels....fact. I have some clomid at home left over from an AAS cycle and have actually considered lately the idea of running clomid for a month to increase my Test levels.....but I keep coming back to this fact, Total Test does not necessarily equal better results in the gym and in bodybuilding.

Test levels are not the be all end all that everyone thinks they are......if we all had our test levels checked, we would probably be surprised at the hardgainers with high test levels and the built guys with low test. I just think that there are a lot of genetic factors that combine to give each of us our muscle gaining potential.

Sorry for the long post......I would love to hear others' opinions on this....hopefully someone with more formal education in these areas....the above is just what my gut tells me and the little research that I have done.

i would like to hear from someone as well with extesive knowledge on this subject.

 

[fmfws185]

Clomid would definitely help raise your tesosterone levels, if they are unaturally supressed or your having a steroid related hormone imbalance or deficiency.

If your homeostatic taking a SERM is retarded, i really beleive that.

i disagree

thats like saying taking a natural test booster when your levels are normal is retarded. but im pretty sure there are alot of people in the supplement section who would gladly debate you on this

 

[chocolatemilk]

well its the same thing as saying why take aas when you already have muscle.

Exactly! And you understand the risks of taking AAS don't you? Any time you take unnecessary medication you are putting yourself at risk. Just like I said, taking medication for no disease is not a good idea.

With antibiotics, there might not be to much of a problem with that. But taking a hormonal medication when you don't have a hormonal sickness. Ohhh nooo.

 

[deadaim]

There is a vast array of negative sides with taking SERMS and I would not want to take them if I didnt have to.

Natural test boosters are non-hormonal and pretty safe, I dont feel they have any real efficacy but I would much rather run that then a serm if its standalone.

Why not just take DAA, plenty of studies showing increase in test and its safe...

 

[deadaim]

i disagree

thats like saying taking a natural test booster when your levels are normal is retarded. but im pretty sure there are alot of people in the supplement section who would gladly debate you on this

I agree thats retarded too, minus DAA the effectiveness of test boosters is pretty much nill if your in the normal TEST range.

 

[SouthernCharm]

Exactly! And you understand the risks of taking AAS don't you? Any time you take unnecessary medication you are putting yourself at risk. Just like I said, taking medication for no disease is not a good idea.

With antibiotics, there might not be to much of a problem with that. But taking a hormonal medication when you don't have a hormonal sickness. Ohhh nooo.

Actually if you take antibiotics without a need for them you are naturally weakening your body's ability to fight off disease. Just like people using antibacterial lotion every time they touch something. Germs only get stronger. I don't know much about why a test booster or a serm would be better to run and why, but if youre comparing it to antibiotics then i certainly would not run a serm unless I needed to.

 

[SouthernCharm]

I agree thats retarded too, minus DAA the effectiveness of test boosters is pretty much nill if your in the normal TEST range.

I can back that. I took two "cycles" of different test boosters (not going to name them here) but bloodwork showed little proof that they were effective, if they were at all. My diet and training were probably a lot more influential on my test levels then the boosters were.

 

[fmfws185]

Exactly! And you understand the risks of taking AAS don't you? Any time you take unnecessary medication you are putting yourself at risk. Just like I said, taking medication for no disease is not a good idea.

With antibiotics, there might not be to much of a problem with that. But taking a hormonal medication when you don't have a hormonal sickness. Ohhh nooo.

yes i know the risks.
but im not trying to argue if its dangerous. anything you take has side effect and risks. eating too much protein a side effect is you get those nasty protein farts (lol my gf hates those) and people say "supposably" it can harm your kidneys. im just trying to say with all sides and risks aside.

how come people pay quite a bit of $ for test boosters when they raise test by a little if any. when they can buy a serm for less $ and it can significantly raise test. even 10mg of nolva can raise test quite a bit.

 

[chocolatemilk]

Actually if you take antibiotics without a need for them you are naturally weakening your body's ability to fight off disease. Just like people using antibacterial lotion every time they touch something. Germs only get stronger. I don't know much about why a test booster or a serm would be better to run and why, but if youre comparing it to antibiotics then i certainly would not run a serm unless I needed to.

Thanks for that southern fried chicken.... mmmm just had some.

 

[deadaim]

Also antibiotics dont "wipe out" viruses.

 

[fmfws185]

Actually if you take antibiotics without a need for them you are naturally weakening your body's ability to fight off disease. Just like people using antibacterial lotion every time they touch something. Germs only get stronger. I don't know much about why a test booster or a serm would be better to run and why, but if youre comparing it to antibiotics then i certainly would not run a serm unless I needed to.

well im not exactly comparing the 2. im saying preferably in my opinion a serm is WAY mor effective than a test booster. and cheaper

 

[chocolatemilk]

yes i know the risks.
but im not trying to argue if its dangerous. anything you take has side effect and risks. eating too much protein a side effect is you get those nasty protein farts (lol my gf hates those) and people say "supposably" it can harm your kidneys. im just trying to say with all sides and risks aside.

how come people pay quite a bit of $ for test boosters when they raise test by a little if any. when they can buy a serm for less $ and it can significantly raise test. even 10mg of nolva can raise test quite a bit.

Well taking testosterone is relatively safe compared to taking tren ace. There are different degrees of risks involved with every compound. So you make a good point because I don't know the exact "danger level" of taking a SERM solo.

 

[fmfws185]

Also antibiotics dont "wipe out" viruses.

well weather it does or doesnt i havent gotten sick this year (yet!)
but still this is totally off subject lol

 

[fmfws185]

Well taking testosterone is relatively safe compared to taking tren ace. There are different degrees of risks involved with every compound. So you make a good point because I don't know the exact "danger level" of taking a SERM solo.

i know clomid can raise liver values. but then again so can all the supplement we take. i know i have an arsenal of supplements and i know everybodies liver and kidney's dont like to process everything. which is why we take in adequate amount of water to help with the process

 

[chocolatemilk]

i know clomid can raise liver values. but then again so can all the supplement we take. i know i have an arsenal of supplements and i know everybodies liver and kidney's dont like to process everything. which is why we take in adequate amount of water to help with the process

It's not about the liver or kidneys. We understand everything impacts them.

It's hormones hormones hormones, you're throwing a wrench into an already working machine.

Fmf... this idea you come up with is not new at all. Don't you think people have thought about this? Yet nobody has done it and it's probably for good reason.

I would rather pump testosterone into my male body then throw in a female fertility drug anyday. Test is much safer for the male body to take then clomid IMO. If you're contemplating this, log it for us. Nobody does this, and it must be fore good reason.

 

[fmfws185]

It's not about the liver or kidneys. We understand everything impacts them.

It's hormones hormones hormones, you're throwing a wrench into an already working machine.

Fmf... this idea you come up with is not new at all. Don't you think people have thought about this? Yet nobody has done it and it's probably for good reason.

I would rather pump testosterone into my male body then throw in a female fertility drug anyday. Test is much safer for the male body to take then clomid IMO. If you're contemplating this, log it for us. Nobody does this, and it must be fore good reason.

lol i wouldn't do this. if i was gonna mess with my hormones i would just run another cycle and get 10+ lbs while im at it. i was just thinking that how come people take test boosters to raise test a little when serms have been proven to raise test by 150%

 

[UnrealMachine]

i love clomid. sometime i might try some when working all natty between cycles.

I just got mod edited for talking about natty test boosters. So i'm gonna say it again: i'd rather run a SERM than a natty test booster. OTC test boosters are selling more and implemented more because they're spiced up by advertising, bull**** claims, bright labels and broscience.

That said, there are some great OTC test boosters. I liked PP's sustain... try stacking that with clomid for the best of both worlds.

 

[triton185]

We could go on for days about this. I have a question though......

Let's say you have Total Test in the 400 range then you take a Test Booster (for argument's sake ie total BS) or you take a SERM and bump your Test up to the 600 range.

What happens? Am I going to start packing on muscle? I personally don't think so. I have low test and have never had a problem putting on muscle (except right now...shoulder and back fubared)

 

[UnrealMachine]

yeah you are right a 50% increase in test doesn't mean very much. A test cycle is probably closer to a 500% increase.

 

[UKStrength]

We could go on for days about this. I have a question though......

Let's say you have Total Test in the 400 range then you take a Test Booster (for argument's sake ie total BS) or you take a SERM and bump your Test up to the 600 range.

What happens? Am I going to start packing on muscle? I personally don't think so. I have low test and have never had a problem putting on muscle (except right now...shoulder and back fubared)

True, but that increase in testosterone might improve your drive and intensity exerted in the gym which will lead to an increase in muscle mass surely?

 

[UnrealMachine]

True, but that increase in testosterone might improve your drive and intensity exerted in the gym which will lead to an increase in muscle mass surely?

test doesn't give me drive and intensity in the gym, even large amounts of it. That sounds like a job better suited for a pre-WO drink.

maybe other people though

in general a "boost" in test is kinda insignificant in terms of gains. It would be like injecting 150mg to 200mg of test a week. It increases your test levels, but not enough to do anything.

 

[hardknock]

So ur saying ppl should be running "cycles" of nolvadex and/or clomid?

No, I was saying that during PCT, I would run both but if I had to choose one then I would run a SERM only.

I wasn't referring to running SERMS as cycles, or you may have been talking to the other guy.

 

[hardknock]

i love clomid. sometime i might try some when working all natty between cycles.

I just got mod edited for talking about natty test boosters. So i'm gonna say it again: i'd rather run a SERM than a natty test booster. OTC test boosters are selling more and implemented more because they're spiced up by advertising, bull**** claims, bright labels and broscience.

That said, there are some great OTC test boosters. I liked PP's sustain... try stacking that with clomid for the best of both worlds.

Do what? Mod edited?

 

[hardknock]

We could go on for days about this. I have a question though......

Let's say you have Total Test in the 400 range then you take a Test Booster (for argument's sake ie total BS) or you take a SERM and bump your Test up to the 600 range.

What happens? Am I going to start packing on muscle? I personally don't think so. I have low test and have never had a problem putting on muscle (except right now...shoulder and back fubared)

Actually, you are correct. I have seen guys jump their test from 500 to 900 and it really didn't do anything for muscle building, but it did do something for their sex drive....which is why I no longer screw around with test boosters UNLESS I want an extra kick for sex drive.

 

[deadaim]

To further Unreals point, if test levels were that drastic to gains, then peoples size would be very dependent on their test levels, there are plenty of people at 400-500 test levels that probably crush kids at 800-900.

 

[hardknock]

To further Unreals point, if test levels were that drastic to gains, then peoples size would be very dependent on their test levels, there are plenty of people at 400-500 test levels that probably crush kids at 800-900.

Only thing to remember though, SOME people seek higher test levels for much more than building muscle.

Bottom line, if you want to build freakish muscle and are using test boosters, then your best bet is to go all steroidal...unless you want a safe alternative which are boosters, yet, that may not increase test levels enough to really build any significant muscle. Perhaps a small recomp but freakish? No!

 

[deadaim]

Yeah but nolva can kill your libido and negatively affect your workouts, dizzyness, fatigue and other ways, which would negate those "other" effects.

Im not saying you dont have a valid point, I just think the cons outweigh the pros. Your better off running a few oral cycles a year.

 

[wontstop985]

Yeah but nolva can kill your libido and negatively affect your workouts, dizzyness, fatigue and other ways, which would negate those "other" effects.

Im not saying you dont have a valid point, I just think the cons outweigh the pros. Your better off running a few oral cycles a year.

Clomid doesn't do this. I personally get 0 sides from clomid, at any dose. Just wondering what downside there would be to taking 25mg clomid/day for an extended period of time.