Starting Over
- Thread starter TINYTOAD
- Start date
B5150
Legend
One of the things I have found about AndroGel 1% and Testim (1%) is the insane volume of gel required to deliver the active dose.
At 1% it requires 5ml of volume of gel to achive the 50mg dose and twice the volume (10ml - two tubes) to achieve 100mg - which BTW is usually the correct dose - reason being that the 50mg at 10% absorption is just enough to shut you down but not enough to bring your levels to what they were uninhibited. IOW you end up with a lower test level than you did initially.
What can make you feel so well is that the high DHT conversion (due to the topical application) increases your DHT levels which improve many males aspects and characteristics in your life but may produce unpleasant sides like aggression, acne, bph, etc - basic androgenic sides.
So with the above statement, I personally, would be sure your doctor effectively monitors your DHT as it will likely skyrocket - I've used saw palmetto with success.
Additionally, many anti-aging clinicians will use a pharmacy compounded cream. The benefits of this are that it is compounded with a much higher concentration of test and therefore you use a significantly less volume of gel.
The cost is not too bad either. My insurance would not cover a compounding pharmacy prescription but the OOP cost was ~$110 for a two months supply shipped overnight direct to my door.
Having used AndroGel and the compounded pharmacy products I would never use AndroGel again.
If you happen to know an anti-aging clinician in your area I would very seriously use them over a PCP who is less than aware of many of the aspects of effective treatment.
At 1% it requires 5ml of volume of gel to achive the 50mg dose and twice the volume (10ml - two tubes) to achieve 100mg - which BTW is usually the correct dose - reason being that the 50mg at 10% absorption is just enough to shut you down but not enough to bring your levels to what they were uninhibited. IOW you end up with a lower test level than you did initially.
What can make you feel so well is that the high DHT conversion (due to the topical application) increases your DHT levels which improve many males aspects and characteristics in your life but may produce unpleasant sides like aggression, acne, bph, etc - basic androgenic sides.
So with the above statement, I personally, would be sure your doctor effectively monitors your DHT as it will likely skyrocket - I've used saw palmetto with success.
Additionally, many anti-aging clinicians will use a pharmacy compounded cream. The benefits of this are that it is compounded with a much higher concentration of test and therefore you use a significantly less volume of gel.
The cost is not too bad either. My insurance would not cover a compounding pharmacy prescription but the OOP cost was ~$110 for a two months supply shipped overnight direct to my door.
Having used AndroGel and the compounded pharmacy products I would never use AndroGel again.
If you happen to know an anti-aging clinician in your area I would very seriously use them over a PCP who is less than aware of many of the aspects of effective treatment.
emantest
Member
My physician started be on Androgel months ago and I ate the $385 first month but then I switched to compounded gel after the first month. Much cheaper. Went back to physician and said I thought the 50mg dose had shut me down and wanted to go higher she said I want you off. Not today. I upped the dose to 100mg and found another person to see, thanks to my compounding pharmacist. The new person put me on weekly self injections, $10 copay. I am feeling solid and back to blasting. I don't have to worry about the cream getting on my boys and causing them to go into early puberty or wearing. Tshirt to bed just in case.
tuberman
Active member
This is interesting info to me and I need to know a lot more before going this way. I've got some googling to do.
TINYTOAD
Active member
Yes, my doctor originally prescribed the 1.6% Androgel at 2 pumps per day. I was quite surprised when I picked up my prescription and found that I now had Testim at 1%, once each day. I need to follow up with the doc.
Today was the first dose, and I'm feeling more alert. My nose has finally stopped running. Tomorrow will be a full workout.
Thanks to all!!! Fantastic information!!!!
-TT
Today was the first dose, and I'm feeling more alert. My nose has finally stopped running. Tomorrow will be a full workout.
Thanks to all!!! Fantastic information!!!!
-TT
oldguns
Member
What amount of saw palmetto were you using ? Thanks for the information. TT- waiting to see how your workouts improve...more drive and energy.
B5150
Legend
Now brand SPE double strength is 160mg. I take two to three per day. It relieves the light androgenic acnes that had experienced. The DHT values were not necessarily my concern as I enjoy the virility and drier harder physique that higher DHT produces but not the androgenic side of acne. I cannot recall the influence on my bloodwork for DHT and I have an otherwise healthy prostate with no BPH on both physical exam or symptomaticaly.
TINYTOAD
Active member
Today, I seemed to have more drive and energy for sure. I feel a bit like I've had a cup of coffee except I haven't had one.
Yeah, it went well at the gym today. I decided to give the Hoist decline press a whirl today, and managed 4 reps at 320. I dropped it down to 270 for the rest of my sets.
We'll see if the energy keeps up.
-TT
oldguns
Member
Let me know how it's working for you overall.
TINYTOAD
Active member
'got this funny letter from my insurance provider concerning their denial of my Androgel prescription...
"Coverage is provided in situations where THERAPEUTIC FAILURE has occurred with the covered alternative or the presence of intolerance to the covered alternative exists..."
Of course, there are no alternative therapies listed. It's my understanding that hypogonadism is treated by prescribing testosterone. I'm not aware of any alternative therapies. The Testim I have now is not covered either. It's $35 for a month's supply, and insurance pays nothing!
Dear UnitedHealtcare,
You Suck!!!
So far, so good with the Testim, but it's too early to tell if it's doing the job, or shutting me down. I seem to have more energy. I also seem to be developing a reddish complexion, and seem to have more oily skin.
I've been pushing myself at the gym lately, and am very sore. Tomorrow is "leg day" so hopefully this will give my chest and back some time to recover.
-TT
tuberman
Active member
It's the same with most of these.insuance companies. they expect to collect their premiums, yet they're constantly using any excuse to bail out on paying for important healthcare. The system is broken.
TINYTOAD
Active member
Insurance companies are out to make a profit, and the less they pay, the more profit they make. My ex-sister-in-law worked for corporate at some big insurance agency whose name escapes me, and told me that they do their best not to pay out.
Today was an abbreviated "pull" day. It was not a good day.
I think my lack of sleep was catching up with me. It was pathetic.Tomorrow will go better!
By the way, I saw an interesting new exercise today. Hold a 25 pound weight in each hand, with your arms down at your side, and just kinda rock side to side.
I think he was attempting to work his obliques, but I'm just not sure. Balancing the weights kinda defeats the purpose. I wish I had a video of this to share. I just had me scratching my head all morning.
-TT
oldguns
Member
I think I'll just fly down to my brother in laws in Fla. Go to a clinic, get my trt taken care of and enjoy a vacation and take it off my taxes under health expenses. I could lay on the beach waiting for my bloodwork to get back. Just a thought ! I could do the sea food and beer diet to get all those carbs. I wonder if I could write off deep sea fishing as rehab.Insurance companies are out to make a profit, and the less they pay, the more profit they make. My ex-sister-in-law worked for corporate at some big insurance agency whose name escapes me, and told me that they do their best not to pay out.
Today was an abbreviated "pull" day. It was not a good day.
Tomorrow will go better!
By the way, I saw an interesting new exercise today. Hold a 25 pound weight in each hand, with your arms down at your side, and just kinda rock side to side.
I think he was attempting to work his obliques, but I'm just not sure. Balancing the weights kinda defeats the purpose. I wish I had a video of this to share. I just had me scratching my head all morning.
-TT
TINYTOAD
Active member
Oh! That sounds soooo good!!! I just love Florida's beaches. My work sent me to Cocoa Beach back in the 90's for a few weeks.
Anyhow, it's off to the gym...
-TT
tuberman
Active member
TT,
Let us know how your blood tests go with the TRT. Have you gotten your free test put into the blood tests. Make sure that is in range.
Did you feel a lack of motivation with the low test. The last three years every time I let my testostrone go down to it's normal low I do notice a lack after a few weeks.
Let us know how your blood tests go with the TRT. Have you gotten your free test put into the blood tests. Make sure that is in range.
Did you feel a lack of motivation with the low test. The last three years every time I let my testostrone go down to it's normal low I do notice a lack after a few weeks.
TINYTOAD
Active member
I won't be getting any new blood work for a few months, but this last time, my serum test level was 221 ng/dL, and my free test was 5.3 pg/ml. I was really surprised that my levels were so low. The "normal" range as my doctor described it would be 348-1197 for serum test, and 6.8-21.5 for free test.
I'm not so sure I'd call it a lack of motivation, but I do seem to have more energy now, and I don't get really tired in the middle of the day like I would before.
-TT
oldguns
Member
When mine was set with correct dose, I had more motivation / energy / drive and didn't get tired as easy.
TINYTOAD
Active member
After dragging for a couple of weeks, I'm doing much better.
I'm very surprised that there hasn't been a big influx of newbies at the gym... at least at 5:30 in the morning.
Anyhow... things are bumping along. It's been almost a year now. I've made a lot of progress, but I've still got a long ways to go.
More later....
-TT
I'm very surprised that there hasn't been a big influx of newbies at the gym... at least at 5:30 in the morning.
Anyhow... things are bumping along. It's been almost a year now. I've made a lot of progress, but I've still got a long ways to go.
More later....
-TT
TINYTOAD
Active member
Oops.... I forgot all about this, after posting over on OG's page....
I've got the strangest leg cramps right now.
If I bend my left leg, my left quad starts to cramp. It happens when I put on my shoes, etc.
Today, it happened when I was stepping down to do pullups on the pullup assist machine.
At first, I blamed it on the creatine and maybe being a little dehydrated in the morning... maybe not enough calcium, etc.
I took my supplements, including calcium, taurine, and potassium. Something still is not right with my left quad. It's been going on for 2 weeks now.
Any ideas here?
Thanks!
-TT
I've got the strangest leg cramps right now.
If I bend my left leg, my left quad starts to cramp. It happens when I put on my shoes, etc.
Today, it happened when I was stepping down to do pullups on the pullup assist machine.
At first, I blamed it on the creatine and maybe being a little dehydrated in the morning... maybe not enough calcium, etc.
I took my supplements, including calcium, taurine, and potassium. Something still is not right with my left quad. It's been going on for 2 weeks now.
Any ideas here?
Thanks!
-TT
TINYTOAD
Active member
It was a great morning at the gym today.
I piled 340 pounds worth of plates onto the Hoist Chest Press machine, and got in 4 reps.
Now, was it really 340 pounds that I pressed? I kinda doubt it. Anyhow, it's 20 pounds more than I've done before with this machine.
Tomorrow will be my 1-year anniversary for my road to recovery.... My "Starting Over" date, so to speak.
Thanks again, for everybody's help!
-TT
I piled 340 pounds worth of plates onto the Hoist Chest Press machine, and got in 4 reps.
Now, was it really 340 pounds that I pressed? I kinda doubt it. Anyhow, it's 20 pounds more than I've done before with this machine.
Tomorrow will be my 1-year anniversary for my road to recovery.... My "Starting Over" date, so to speak.
Thanks again, for everybody's help!
-TT
tuberman
Active member
middleageguy
Member
Are you going to put up some Before/After pic's for the "1-year anniversary"?
TINYTOAD
Active member
I don't have any "Before" pictures. I'm really reluctant to post pictures of myself on the internet in general.
Mostly, I've been gauging my improvement by my bench press scores.
I've got a long way to go. I can tell that I've packed on some muscle in my chest and back. I think I've put an inch on my arms.
I didn't make a bunch of measurements like I should have before I started.
My biggest issue is bodyfat. That's were I need to focus this coming year.
Hopefully, getting my test levels up to where they're supposed to be, will help me out. I'll be talking to my urologist tomorrow.
-TT
TINYTOAD
Active member
It kicks in on the second Sunday in March, then reverts back again on the first Sunday in November.
I think the whole daylight savings time thing is a little silly now. It's a real pain in the tail since everybody has so many clocks that they have to reset. Clocks are in cars, ovens, televisions, and other appliances, plus there's all your wrist watches you have to reset.
Right now, I feel like I have jet lag, because I'm getting up an hour earlier. I should be back to normal in a week.
There's a funny story about an old Indian, when told the reasoning behind daylight savings time replied, "Only the government would believe that you could cut a foot off the top of a blanket, sew it to the bottom, and have a longer blanket."
That's one thing I miss about Arizona... that and the nice sunny winters.
-TT
Dutchman
Active member
Understand. I too really judge my progress by my BP/Squats/Rack Deads. Doing my 4 split/8 day week I had 4 great days last week improving everything in either reps or weight. Then 3 days ago I flubbed big-time and missed my prior Rack Deads by 40 lbs. I was disgusted and took 3 days off then today I hit chest and pushed it up to 5 X 245. I was beside myself with emotion. It went up pretty easy, strong and absolutely no help from my spotter! I don't care if BP is a bad example of our performance, I still love it, flat out love it!
TINYTOAD
Active member
The squats and bench press are my markers as well.
Rack deads just scare the pants off of me. I've been avoiding them.
I piled 360 pounds onto the chest press machine today, and made a max OTR. No, it's not the equivalent of a 360 pound bench press. No way!
Anyhow, I'm making an appointment with my urologist on Monday to set up my blood test, so we can figure out where I am, and if the Testim is doing the trick.
-TT
TINYTOAD
Active member
That's good to know!
I'm getting tested on April 13th. I'll keep you posted.
Thanks again,
-TT
TINYTOAD
Active member
My push day went well. My pull day did not.
I skipped my workout this morning, but will be back on it tomorrow for sure!
Since I started the Testim, my weight has gone up 5 pounds, but I've lost an inch off my waist.
This is a good sign!
In a few weeks, I'll find out if this Testim is doing the trick, or if I need something stronger.
I really like the idea of being popped up into the 800+ range for test. The low 200's suck...
-TT
I skipped my workout this morning, but will be back on it tomorrow for sure!
Since I started the Testim, my weight has gone up 5 pounds, but I've lost an inch off my waist.
This is a good sign!
In a few weeks, I'll find out if this Testim is doing the trick, or if I need something stronger.
I really like the idea of being popped up into the 800+ range for test. The low 200's suck...
-TT
TINYTOAD
Active member
Hey Tuberman,
I'm just really stressed, and am not sleeping well. I need to kick up the cardio. Right now, cardio consists of my leg days, nothing more.
This Friday, I go in for pre-op and blood work. The following week, I've got surgery. I've got a blockage in my urinary tract, and it's been messing me up for a while. I hope they find the problem, eliminate it, and make me whole again.
As part of the blood work, my urologist will be checking my test levels. He'll be modifiying my regime, if things need to change. Right now, I'm on Testim. I'm definitely feeling better, but I have no clue as to if I'm where I'm supposed to be, as far ast test levels.
Anyhow, I'll know what's up in a week or so. I know I'm definitely doing better with the Testim, than without, but that's not saying much.
More info to follow...
-TT
tuberman
Active member
Do you have a stone blockage? Some years back I was worried about it and took a natural remedy, lemon juice with extra virgin olive oil. I did have stones. I did pass said stones over the next 2.5 days, and had excruciating pain most of those 2.5 days. It was really hard on me, and I almost went to emergency several times, but I got through, and the last 28 hours or so, I could actually see the stones come out in pee.
I do NOT recommend my course of action.
TINYTOAD
Active member
The doctor is being vague and says he thinks I have a stricture. He wants to explore and dialate as necessary.
They've done x-rays, ultra-sound, and now it's time for the cystoscope and whatever else they use to slice through or otherwide dialate the area where things aren't flowing like they should. I'm definitely not looking forward to the procedure. They're going to knock me out for this one, otherwise it would be rather painful.
I'll know more after the procedure. All this aside, I mostly want to get my test levels up where they need to be. Funny how that's my priority!
-TT
They've done x-rays, ultra-sound, and now it's time for the cystoscope and whatever else they use to slice through or otherwide dialate the area where things aren't flowing like they should. I'm definitely not looking forward to the procedure. They're going to knock me out for this one, otherwise it would be rather painful.
I'll know more after the procedure. All this aside, I mostly want to get my test levels up where they need to be. Funny how that's my priority!
-TT
TINYTOAD
Active member
I spent my Friday afternoon at the hospital.
They did EKG, bloodwork, p1ss test, and a chest X-Ray.
I'm still not sure what the p1ss test and chest X-Ray were about, but I guess they need more income or something.
This coming Thursday is the big day. I arrive at 9:30 a.m., then (hopefully) leave at around 1:30 pm.
They do a great job of scaring the cr@p out of you, when they start asking if you have a will, medical POA, etc. LOL!
$1900 out of pocket for this little adventure. It's really going to 5uck for the next week or two. I hope it doesn't hurt too much, and if it does, I hope they prescribe for me some really great pain medication.
At the end of this, I hope all is well, the Doc will have my test levels where they need to be, and I won't have to deal with this 5hit again!
All this aside, my priority is really getting my test levels back to normal. Averting kidney failure would be a plus as well.
-TT
They did EKG, bloodwork, p1ss test, and a chest X-Ray.
I'm still not sure what the p1ss test and chest X-Ray were about, but I guess they need more income or something.
This coming Thursday is the big day. I arrive at 9:30 a.m., then (hopefully) leave at around 1:30 pm.
They do a great job of scaring the cr@p out of you, when they start asking if you have a will, medical POA, etc. LOL!
$1900 out of pocket for this little adventure. It's really going to 5uck for the next week or two. I hope it doesn't hurt too much, and if it does, I hope they prescribe for me some really great pain medication.
At the end of this, I hope all is well, the Doc will have my test levels where they need to be, and I won't have to deal with this 5hit again!
All this aside, my priority is really getting my test levels back to normal. Averting kidney failure would be a plus as well.
-TT
tuberman
Active member
All those extra tests such as EKG and chest X-ray is to see if your heart is up to an operation, if not they will postpone it until they can normalize the problem or problems. It's now standard procedure.
Basically, they are looking for any and all potential problems that may hurt you on the operating table, and they emphasize heart stuff. Even though it's tedious, in some ways it's a good thing.
TINYTOAD
Active member
After all the tests last week, I got a call this morning explaining that they botched the blood work, and I have to go back.
Last Friday, the gal messed up one of my chest X-Rays, and I had to do three instead of two.
They had me stop the glucosamine. Aparently it makes you bleed more.
I also get to wipe myself down with chlorhexidine gluconate cloth before the procedure.
-TT
Last Friday, the gal messed up one of my chest X-Rays, and I had to do three instead of two.
They had me stop the glucosamine. Aparently it makes you bleed more.
I also get to wipe myself down with chlorhexidine gluconate cloth before the procedure.
-TT
TINYTOAD
Active member
Thanks Dutchman! I need all the luck I can get.
I'll be leaving for the hospital in about 2 hours.
I'll probably know in a few days when I can return to the gym. It might be a week, or maybe a little longer.
Thanks again,
-TT
TINYTOAD
Active member
My doctor says the surgery went well. He'll take the catheter tube out in a week.
I'll be really glad to get rid of it.
I was surprised that he prescribed Cipro. 'better safe than sorry. I need to do some more reading on it.
I have to steer clear of calcium and multivitamins while I'm on it. I'll take some probiotics afterwards, to restore all the good bugs that it killed.
I asked about my Test levels, and he said they were on his computer and would get back with me. I guess I'll know in a week.
For a few days, I'll work out with bands, as best as I can. Maybe I'll be bold and go the gym anyway, with this bag strapped to my leg.
-TT
I'll be really glad to get rid of it.
I was surprised that he prescribed Cipro. 'better safe than sorry. I need to do some more reading on it.
I have to steer clear of calcium and multivitamins while I'm on it. I'll take some probiotics afterwards, to restore all the good bugs that it killed.
I asked about my Test levels, and he said they were on his computer and would get back with me. I guess I'll know in a week.
For a few days, I'll work out with bands, as best as I can. Maybe I'll be bold and go the gym anyway, with this bag strapped to my leg.
-TT
tuberman
Active member
Sounds good so far. Did he give any details about what was the cause of your problem yet?
TINYTOAD
Active member
The doctor didn't talk to me much after the surgery. I will see him again on Thursday, and hope to learn more.
At the end of this, if my urinary tract is back to normal, and my test levels are back to normal, I'll be very very happy.
In fact, when they take this darn catheter out of me, I think I'll be very very happy as well.
I'll let you know what I know, come Thursday.
This Cipro stuff sounds like it may cause me tendon issues. Not good. I need my tendons to be as strong as they can be, not brittle!
-TT
TINYTOAD
Active member
Today, I just saw the nurse. She removed my catheter. I'm sure glad that's out!
I really thought I'd get to talk to the doctor today, but I guess I'll have to wait.
I'm just really anxious to know if my Testim gel is working, or if I need something different.
It's back to the gym tomorrow.
-TT
I really thought I'd get to talk to the doctor today, but I guess I'll have to wait.
I'm just really anxious to know if my Testim gel is working, or if I need something different.
It's back to the gym tomorrow.
-TT