Starting Over

oldguns

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Seriously OG, I would try a couple bottles of Super Cissus RX at 3 caps 15 mins before breakfast and 3 more 15 mins before dinner. I swear that stuff is beyond good. It has helped me, my wives, my family, my friends and a bunch of people from the gym. It always has a positive and often a completely positive result. For $60 I would jump on it yesterday.
I'll have to add it to my war chest, getting a product that works is a big plus right now. Thanks
 
Dutchman

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I'll have to add it to my war chest, getting a product that works is a big plus right now. Thanks
I just talked today to several guys in our gym who have now tried it and they all got 50%, 75% and some 100% relief. IMHO, it is the greatest natural thing to hit the lifting world in the past decade. Viel Glueck! (that's my Tcherman for Good Luck!).
 
TINYTOAD

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TT, how are the workouts going ?
I took a week off, to see if my back improves, and it has. I'm not sure if it was the foam roller I purchased, or my lack of cardio and core that made the improvement.

Anyhow, the week has ended, and it's back to the gym tomorrow.

I see my doctor in a couple of weeks. I'm disappointed he won't do a physical on the first visit.

As a side note, I had chicken livers for dinner tonight... I had read that they were chock full of vitamin A, B vitamins, and folic acid.

But Bleeeccchhhht!!!! I guess it will be another 30 years before I try those rotten tasting things again! What was I thinking!!! Yuck!!

-TT
 

oldguns

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TT- Hows the workouts going. Hope that foot is fine and your staying away from those chicken livers.
 
TINYTOAD

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TT- Hows the workouts going. Hope that foot is fine and your staying away from those chicken livers.
I pretty much did cardio the whole week. My back isn't bothering me anymore.

The foot is not quite back to normal, but is doing pretty good. It only bothers me once in a while now.

Today, for some odd reason, my hamstrings are aching. I'm not sure what's going on with them. They were fine yesterday.

On Tuesday, I'm finally going to see a doctor. For some odd reason, they wouldn't let me schedule a physical exam for this first visit.

I need to get checked out, since I haven't seen a doctor in about four years now.

Our team lost the weight-loss challenge at the gym. One guy on the other team lost 11 pounds in one week! How the heck to you lose 11 pounds in 1 week? Starve yourself and don't hydrate? I'm happy losing 2 pounds per week.

-TT
 

oldguns

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TT- In the past I was able to lose 10lbs in a week, but it always came right back. When I lose 1-2 lbs a week I was always able to keep it off.
 
TINYTOAD

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TT- In the past I was able to lose 10lbs in a week, but it always came right back. When I lose 1-2 lbs a week I was always able to keep it off.
Keeping the weight off has always been a struggle for me. It's really going to be a challenge for the next couple of weeks, as everybody at work brings in gobs of goodies.

I always seem to stall out about a month into any weight loss attempt. I don't know if I just get sloppy, or if my metabolism actually slows down. I'm down to losing between 0 and 1 pound a week now. The weight goes down slow, but shoots up a rocket!

Today was another 30 minutes of interval training, then some play on the circuit equipment. I maxed out the pulldown machine, but it's only like 240 pounds, or there abouts. I maxed out the mid row machine months ago.

Anyhow, tomorrow I won't be going to work in the morning, due to the doctor's appointment, so I can do a nice long workout and take my time.

The hamstrings started acting up again today. It's a very odd pain. It feels like I'm trying to stretch them too hard, but I'm not doing anything. I'm just sitting or standing there, having them ache. I wonder if it's an issue with my sciatic nerve. I'll let the doctor figure it out.

-TT
 
TINYTOAD

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Started my cardio today only to find that my heart was unstable. I just did a quick 5 minute warmup, then went upstairs for my push day.

My first set of chest press went just amazingly well. I decided to try and break my record.

I'm still not using free weights for my chest press yet, but there is a Free Motion iso chest press machine (looks like a traditional chest machine, not the one where you pull on cables) that I use to gauge my strength. Half the time it seems like it's broken, but it was in working order today.

I did 230, 250, 270, and when I got to 290, I couldn't do it. I may have burned myself out. Anyhow, I was really hoping to hit 300 by the end of the year, and I don't feel like I'm that far off now. Man! I thought I was going to rack that baby today! Almost!!!

Time to head over to the doctor's office...

-TT
 

oldguns

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Started my cardio today only to find that my heart was unstable. I just did a quick 5 minute warmup, then went upstairs for my push day.

My first set of chest press went just amazingly well. I decided to try and break my record.

I'm still not using free weights for my chest press yet, but there is a Free Motion iso chest press machine (looks like a traditional chest machine, not the one where you pull on cables) that I use to gauge my strength. Half the time it seems like it's broken, but it was in working order today.

I did 230, 250, 270, and when I got to 290, I couldn't do it. I may have burned myself out. Anyhow, I was really hoping to hit 300 by the end of the year, and I don't feel like I'm that far off now. Man! I thought I was going to rack that baby today! Almost!!!

Time to head over to the doctor's office...

-TT
How is your heart during your heavy lifts ? Only 10 more pounds to start the year off right.
 
TINYTOAD

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How is your heart during your heavy lifts ? Only 10 more pounds to start the year off right.
My heart seemed to stabilize once I started lifting. By the time I got to the doctor's office, it was beating with a normal rhythm, although a little fast (75 bpm). My blood pressure was great, like 112 / 72.

In three weeks, I'll go in for all the blood work. I'm having him check my free test levels too.

In four weeks, I'll have my head to toe physical. If that checks out, I'm good to go.

-TT
 
Dutchman

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TT, have you started megadosing the Taurine and Arginine and/or the Omega 3s yet? If so for how long now and at what quantities? When you talk to your Doc in Jan., he may well agree with more Omega 3s but then he will probably prescribe Lovasa which carries a very high price and gives him a substantal kickback. The Lovasa is supported by lots more hype than verity. I would suggest a different liquid Omega 3 concentrated Fish Oil type such as the highly respected Carlson "The Very Finest" liquid FO, which I buy for my wife (she has trouble swallowing the larger FO capsules) and she flat out loves it. Check out the attached article which is informative albeit biased, about the Big Phama pitch for Lovasa.

The Truth About Prescription Fish Oil
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/supplement_research_update_the_truth_about_prescription_fish_oil

Good luck on hitting that 1RM soon.
 
TINYTOAD

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TT, have you started megadosing the Taurine and Arginine and/or the Omega 3s yet? If so for how long now and at what quantities? When you talk to your Doc in Jan., he may well agree with more Omega 3s but then he will probably prescribe Lovasa which carries a very high price and gives him a substantal kickback. The Lovasa is supported by lots more hype than verity. I would suggest a different liquid Omega 3 concentrated Fish Oil type such as the highly respected Carlson "The Very Finest" liquid FO, which I buy for my wife (she has trouble swallowing the larger FO capsules) and she flat out loves it. Check out the attached article which is informative albeit biased, about the Big Phama pitch for Lovasa.

The Truth About Prescription Fish Oil
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/supplement_research_update_the_truth_about_prescription_fish_oil

Good luck on hitting that 1RM soon.
Thanks Dutchman!

I just ordered Argenine and Taurine about 2 days before my heart went nuts again. I still haven't received my order. Hopefully soon!

I just doubled my fish oil intake to 2 grams per day. I picked up some Salmon oil at Costco the other night. Consumer Reports just did a rundown on various fish oils. The article was mostly about cost, whether the oil was contaminated / rancid or if the enteric coating was any good. One of the brands offered at Costco had too high PCBs, if I'm not mistaken.

I'm thinking I might try 290 again tomorrow. Hopefully I've had enough time to recover.

-TT
 

tuberman

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TT, have you started megadosing the Taurine and Arginine and/or the Omega 3s yet? If so for how long now and at what quantities? When you talk to your Doc in Jan., he may well agree with more Omega 3s but then he will probably prescribe Lovasa which carries a very high price and gives him a substantal kickback. The Lovasa is supported by lots more hype than verity. I would suggest a different liquid Omega 3 concentrated Fish Oil type such as the highly respected Carlson "The Very Finest" liquid FO, which I buy for my wife (she has trouble swallowing the larger FO capsules) and she flat out loves it. Check out the attached article which is informative albeit biased, about the Big Phama pitch for Lovasa.

The Truth About Prescription Fish Oil
T NATION | Supplement Research Update: The Truth About Prescription Fish Oil

Good luck on hitting that 1RM soon.
Dutchman,

I've been using the Taurine/AAKG combo for a couple of weeks now at 8 grams Taurine, and about 5 grams AAKG. I've been using high dose fish oil for about 3 years at a level of 4-6 grams of actives per day. The fish oil does protect from strokes and heart attacks, but has a limited effect at actual stabilizing heart beats. The Taurine/AAKG at this level has stabilize my heart beats about 60% better, but it hasn't yet totally stabilized it. I'm going to go up to 12 Taurine and 8 AAKG soon. My heart doesn't go crazy ever, and my resting HR is in the range of 56 - 62 BPM and the beats are very strong except for irregularities.

My thoughts is that this combo at high doses does work, but may only come close to total stabilization for me,but I need to give it about 3 months to see for sure.

BTW, there is some great research going on in the cancer areas in spite of Big Pharm, and some of this is well funded, and they have some incredible new info. I've looked into this a couple of months ago as a neighbor in his mid-40's found out he had brain cancer. This guy still has 3 young children (the oldest is 13 and a good friend of my niece) at home with a prognosis of 6-9 months to live. My brother and I did a couple days of intensive research into this to see what could be done. Found out some interesting things related to PET scans and glucose.
 
TINYTOAD

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Now that my shipment has arrived...

I started this evening with 2.5g argenine and 2g taurine. I'll do the same tomorrow morning, and see how that goes.

The taurine is in pill form, but the arginine is powder. I mixed in the argenine with my CEE along with some crystal light lemonade to mask the taste.

I also got some USP labs BCAAs, but they don't seem to mix worth a darn with water. If I would have gotten the unflavored kind, I could have just dumped it into my post-workout protein shake. Oh well. The white blue raspberry flavor doesn't taste half bad.

I could not sleep last night, so I didn't hit the gym this morning. I'll hit it bright and early on Monday.

-TT
 
str8jacked23

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Get back into the grove first for a few weeks then gradually start to integrate supplements and such into your plan. Always a ton of good advice here to be found.
 
Dutchman

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Glad to hear the Taurine/AAKG combo is helping Tuber. I assume when you say 4 - 6 gms of actives you mean the Omega 3s, DHA and EPA. That's a shame it didn't work for you. Following a protocol with 3 gms daily of the Omega 3s (like they mention in that article I posted above) my late wife completely eliminated her A-Fib. The "sweet spot" on much of the Fish Oil research I have read used from 3 to 6 gms. That's why I upped my usage a few months ago from 3 to 7 of the Sam's Club triple strength ie 900 mg each FO gel caps. There are interesting reports on the effect of megadosing FO on muscle development.

I've been making slow steady progress in my own workouts. Yesterday on arm day I managed to top out in my weighted DIPS at 12 reps with 90 lbs strapped on, at 6 reps with 110 on the ZBar for my Skullcrushers and for the first time with 5 difficult curls at 100 again with the ZBar. I had to laugh afterwards. I looked in the mirror and said to myself, "dang you old fart, you are looking huge!" Geez was I pumped.
 

tuberman

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Glad to hear the Taurine/AAKG combo is helping Tuber. I assume when you say 4 - 6 gms of actives you mean the Omega 3s, DHA and EPA. That's a shame it didn't work for you. Following a protocol with 3 gms daily of the Omega 3s (like they mention in that article I posted above) my late wife completely eliminated her A-Fib. The "sweet spot" on much of the Fish Oil research I have read used from 3 to 6 gms. That's why I upped my usage a few months ago from 3 to 7 of the Sam's Club triple strength ie 900 mg each FO gel caps. There are interesting reports on the effect of megadosing FO on muscle development.

I've been making slow steady progress in my own workouts. Yesterday on arm day I managed to top out in my weighted DIPS at 12 reps with 90 lbs strapped on, at 6 reps with 110 on the ZBar for my Skullcrushers and for the first time with 5 difficult curls at 100 again with the ZBar. I had to laugh afterwards. I looked in the mirror and said to myself, "dang you old fart, you are looking huge!" Geez was I pumped.
Yeah, I am getting some good results from the combo. And to Tiny -- AAKG doesn't taste bad and is slightly more effective then regular Arginine, that's why I prefer it. Taurine is tasteless or close to it. I won't do without fish oil, it's one of my can't go without supplements. I use the bottled kind 2/3 of the time.

Those are great training numbers Dutch! Congrats!
 
TINYTOAD

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Well, yahoo!

I racked that baby this morning! 290!!!
I got in two reps, then couldn't get the third.

Now I move on to the machine sitting behind it that has "295" written on it.

-TT
 

oldguns

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Well, yahoo!

I racked that baby this morning! 290!!!
I got in two reps, then couldn't get the third.

Now I move on to the machine sitting behind it that has "295" written on it.

-TT
Thats the way to start your day..
 

tuberman

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Well, yahoo!

I racked that baby this morning! 290!!!
I got in two reps, then couldn't get the third.

Now I move on to the machine sitting behind it that has "295" written on it.

-TT
That's great! You're good at cardio too, so how is that going.
 
TINYTOAD

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That's great! You're good at cardio too, so how is that going.
I definitely need to do more cardio. I was doing pretty good with running on the treadmill, until my lower back started hurting.
I switched back over to the recumbent bike, and have been doing that for cardio, pretty much exclusively for the past couple months.
The problem with repetitive motion like that, is that the body seems to adapt pretty quickly. Now that my back is feeling better, I need to change things up.

I forgot to mention that I found a work-around for the BCAA lack of mixability. I picked up some vanilla protein, and just mix the two. It works great! I've got a raspberry-vanilla shake packed in my lunch box this morning for after my workout.

As a side note, the other day I was reading an article on strange food ingredients. In the article, they mentioned "castoreum" which is allegedly used to make vanilla and sometimes raspberry taste better. As it turns out, "castoreum" is an euphemism for a substance extracted from the anal glands of the male American beaver.

So, my mom is in the grocery store, shopping with her friend. He's picking up a carton of vanilla ice cream when my mom drops this little piece of trivia about his ice cream being flavored with extract of beaver butt. He puts the icecream back, as does another lady who overhears the conversation! LOL!! Anyhow, I read conflicting stories as to whether castoreum is still even used in food.

-TT
 

oldguns

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I definitely need to do more cardio. I was doing pretty good with running on the treadmill, until my lower back started hurting.
I switched back over to the recumbent bike, and have been doing that for cardio, pretty much exclusively for the past couple months.
The problem with repetitive motion like that, is that the body seems to adapt pretty quickly. Now that my back is feeling better, I need to change things up.

I forgot to mention that I found a work-around for the BCAA lack of mixability. I picked up some vanilla protein, and just mix the two. It works great! I've got a raspberry-vanilla shake packed in my lunch box this morning for after my workout.

As a side note, the other day I was reading an article on strange food ingredients. In the article, they mentioned "castoreum" which is allegedly used to make vanilla and sometimes raspberry taste better. As it turns out, "castoreum" is an euphemism for a substance extracted from the anal glands of the male American beaver.

So, my mom is in the grocery store, shopping with her friend. He's picking up a carton of vanilla ice cream when my mom drops this little piece of trivia about his ice cream being flavored with extract of beaver butt. He puts the icecream back, as does another lady who overhears the conversation! LOL!! Anyhow, I read conflicting stories as to whether castoreum is still even used in food.

-TT
I wish that my cardio was that good. I think I will skip the two scoops of beaver butt, during the Holiday ! LOL....
 
Dutchman

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Think I'll pass on the beaver butt as well, but I damn well plan on keeping the log jam!!LOL
 

tuberman

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As a side note, the other day I was reading an article on strange food ingredients. In the article, they mentioned "castoreum" which is allegedly used to make vanilla and sometimes raspberry taste better. As it turns out, "castoreum" is an euphemism for a substance extracted from the anal glands of the male American beaver.

So, my mom is in the grocery store, shopping with her friend. He's picking up a carton of vanilla ice cream when my mom drops this little piece of trivia about his ice cream being flavored with extract of beaver butt. He puts the icecream back, as does another lady who overhears the conversation! LOL!! Anyhow, I read conflicting stories as to whether castoreum is still even used in food. -TT
Yeah, just leave the butt off and I'll have some of the creamy stuff!
 
TINYTOAD

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I started having intestinal trouble on Friday morning, and have dropped all supplements.

Symptoms include bloating, gas, pain around my mid-section, and other fun stuff.

Hoping it was due to the taurine, I continued to eat normally, just dropping the supps, and the symptoms have not gone away.

Today, I'm switching over to a diet of brown rice and clear liquids. Hopefully this will clear up soon.

-TT
 
Dutchman

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Nothing like a gas-powered toad running around the gym LOL. Good luck!
 
TINYTOAD

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Nothing like a gas-powered toad running around the gym LOL. Good luck!
I'm doing a lot better today. I added meat back into my diet last night, and will try a protein shake tomorrow morning.

This morning, the gym parking lot had about half the cars it normally does, which is fine with me. :)
The drive to work in the morning is great too. I wish it would stay like this!

-TT
 
TINYTOAD

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Today was a short day at the gym. I did my warmup, then headed upstairs to the other chest machine.

I warmed up with 100 pounds, waited a few minutes, then set the machine for 295.

Done!! I got in one rep, but couldn't do a second one.

So, we'll call this 295 for the year... very close to my goal of 300.

After I left the gym, I realized that there were two more weights that the machine lets you pin on, which would have popped me up to 300, but I was just so reluctant to even try this machine today because I remember it being harder than the chest press machine sitting in front of it. Anyhow, that will give me something to try next week.

Great news!!! I'm very happy with this.

-TT
 
grunt03

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Congratulations on getting 295 lbs. Getting 300 on the bench right now is a lifetime goal for me.

Have you tried taking your warm ups a little higher. I used to take a big jump to my workout or max attempt weight but found that with practice I do much better on a max effort if I take the warm ups higher so that the last jump to a max is no more than 5-10% usually around 8%. Also I make some of my lighter warm ups speed lifts. Between the two it seems to better prepare my muscles and prime my CNS for a max attempt. Just something you might want to try if you haven’t.
 

tuberman

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Congratulations on getting 295 lbs. Getting 300 on the bench right now is a lifetime goal for me.

Have you tried taking your warm ups a little higher. I used to take a big jump to my workout or max attempt weight but found that with practice I do much better on a max effort if I take the warm ups higher so that the last jump to a max is no more than 5-10% usually around 8%. Also I make some of my lighter warm ups speed lifts. Between the two it seems to better prepare my muscles and prime my CNS for a max attempt. Just something you might want to try if you haven’t.
Yeah,TT, congrats on the 295!

I sorry to hear about the intestinal distress. Taurine us the one supplement that does the most for stabilizing my Afib. It can create problems like you have, but usually at much larger doses.
 
TINYTOAD

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Yeah,TT, congrats on the 295!

I sorry to hear about the intestinal distress. Taurine us the one supplement that does the most for stabilizing my Afib. It can create problems like you have, but usually at much larger doses.
I'm not sure what's up with the Taurine. I brought it up to 2 grams again, then started having the same trouble. Food went right through me.
I've backed it down to 1 gram per day (500 mg morning, 500 mg evening), and if that goes well, I'll add a dose at lunch, then gradually build up.
I'll ask my doctor on Friday if he has any ideas. I don't understand why just 2 grams is causing me trouble.

On Sunday night, I was doing cardio, and 20 minutes into it, my heart went nuts and wouldn't drop below 140 bpm. I was doing interval training where I bounced my heart rate between 110 and 145, and I was doing just fine until my heart rate went up, then just wouldn't come down. It finally went back to normal about 30 minutes later.

Over the past week, I managed to hit 305 on the same machine (295 plus the 2 additional 5 lb weights). So, I have officially conquored all the selectorized chest press machines on the top floor of the gym.

For fun, I loaded 320 pounds onto the Hoist plate-loaded machine, and got just a few inches up but couldn't push it through. That'll give me something to shoot for this coming year. I really need to ween myself off the machines this coming year too.

The other thing I'd like to do, is work on my shoulders. I used to be able to do a 240 pound one-time rep on a military press machine, but I doubt if I can even hit 150 now. I bought some Harbinger heavy and "super heavy" resistance band cables so I can practice lateral raises at home.

This coming Friday, I'll have my physical. I went down for all the blood work yesterday, and I'm happy to report that I didn't faint this time. :)

Unfortunately, I've come down with a cold. This is going to mess up my cardio for awhile.

-TT
 
TINYTOAD

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I am very happy to report that my physical exam went well!

My cholesterol is 180, my triglycerides are 61, my HDL is 50, and my LDL is 112. This is an improvement!

Both my calcium and potassium are a little on the low end of normal, so I'm upping the dose on my supplements.

Sadly, my serum testerone level is just 221 ng/dL, and my free test is a meager 5.3 pg/mL.
So, the doc cut me a script for some Androgel. I went down to WallyWorld to cash it in, and to my surprise, they wanted me to cough up $384!!!

This must be some mistake!!!!

Anyhow, the folks at WallyWorld are looking in to it. I should be paying $100 tops for this, plus I should be getting a $50 discount from Abbott.

I suspected my test levels were a little low.. now it's confirmed. Anyhow, I have the script, I just need my insurance to live up to their end of the bargain.

-TT
 
grunt03

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Good to hear your physical went well TT. Too bad about your test but at least your doc is helping you out. I knew test was expensive but that’s crazy. How long is one fill supposed to last?
 
TINYTOAD

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Good to hear your physical went well TT. Too bad about your test but at least your doc is helping you out. I knew test was expensive but that’s crazy. How long is one fill supposed to last?
It's my understanding that one fill is just 30/31 days. If I go mail-order and get a 3 month supply for the price of 2.

I think last year, United Healthcare had Androgel as "Tier 3" and now they popped it up into "Tier 4" so they don't pay out as much.
I'm just shocked by the price. Without insurance, it would be $646.68 for 75 pumps with the 1.62% gel. My doc prescribed 2 "pumps" per day out of the jar, so $646.68 would be the out of pocket cost for a one month supply. Yikes!!!

If all the paperwork goes through, my cost would drop to $100 per month, then Abbott labs has a rebate program that knocks another $50 per month off the cost. So, if all goes well, I'm looking at $50 per month, which isn't bad.

I suspected that my test levels were low. Now it is confirmed. Now I can do something about it.

I was reading somewhere on the internet that some company is coming out with a new version of clomid that is designed to boost your own test levels. It's still in the testing phase though. With all the eyesight problems I've had with clomiphene in the past, I'd be reluctant to try it again. My eyesight is bad enough already, and clomiphene pretty much makes it so that nothing is in focus for me. Close, far, it makes no difference, that stuff just really does a number on my eyes.

Anyhow, once I get my hands on the Androgel, I'm thinking of doing an Epistane + Androgel cycle... so to speak. Although, I'm a little puzzled as to how to handle the PCT.

But yeah, I'm just really happy with the results of my blood work. I must be doing something right! ;)
I figure the Potassium and Calcium issues can be fixed with OTC supps.

-TT
 

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TT,

Is there any way you can get your doc to give you injectable test? The transdermals only move some up to 450 - 600 level. You need 1000+. I now believe that 700+ is just beginning normal. The gel will make a difference, but doesn't really do the full job IMHO. This is what my brother and a couple of good friends have told me. My brother only got to 450 on the gel, and now is at 1150 using injectable test.

You won't need anything to boost test on your PCT, you just deal with issues such as cortisol and estrogen rebound and such.
 
fueledpassion

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750 is typical for a high school boy, not a 40 year old man. Sure, there are some men that have test levels that high but its not terribly common. It is becoming normal to have 750+ test levels because (in my gym's case) u have 1 in 3 men that r taking TRT or are using black market steroids to some degree, making it common for men to have an overly muscular physique with less than 15% BF. I'd have to stay on Clomid year round to stay at that level. I personally function just fine at 500 or so and can maintain muscle with less than 400 for an abbreviated period.
 

tuberman

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750 is typical for a high school boy, not a 40 year old man. Sure, there are some men that have test levels that high but its not terribly common. It is becoming normal to have 750+ test levels because (in my gym's case) u have 1 in 3 men that r taking TRT or are using black market steroids to some degree, making it common for men to have an overly muscular physique with less than 15% BF. I'd have to stay on Clomid year round to stay at that level. I personally function just fine at 500 or so and can maintain muscle with less than 400 for an abbreviated period.
fueled,

I'm 63 and my natural test levels without any help are about 20 points higher than TT's, but still very low and even for a 60+ guy. I alternate test boosters that naturally stimulate extra test through my own system. I got back a total test of 550 with my early booster combinations, and 630 later. I think I've discovered better natty boosters since that feel like they have brought levels up a notch or two higher. I've been able to build a lot of strength and some dense muscle by using power lifting techniques. Yet my muscle size is small compared to people that use external test or AAS.

So you can build a lot of strength and stay fairly healthy at the 500+ levels, but anyone looking for the larger muscle and leanness with it, does need to go further. I have no problem with that as long as one can stay healthy, and it's very possible today. "Black Market" has no meaning to me, there's just legal and illegal, and stuff that you can or cannot stay healthy with use.
 

tuberman

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Tiny,

BTW, I know you do a lot of cardio, and that can decrease your total test score quite a bit, if you did more than an hour per day the week before your blood test. If I decide in the future to get TRT I would get up to over 2 hours per day with about 45 minutes every other day of intense cardio, and that should drop score by a lot. I would do that at least 2 weeks before the blood test and eliminate anything that would boost test.
 
Dutchman

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Tiny,

BTW, I know you do a lot of cardio, and that can decrease your total test score quite a bit, if you did more than an hour per day the week before your blood test. If I decide in the future to get TRT I would get up to over 2 hours per day with about 45 minutes every other day of intense cardio, and that should drop score by a lot. I would do that at least 2 weeks before the blood test and eliminate anything that would boost test.
I plan to leave the VA and go back to using my original Naturopathic Doc. First visit went well and along with all the vitamin testing he has me doing a bood test for the full spectrum of testosterone related issues which the VA wouldn't do, this week. I have had issues with my test and PSA in the past whenever I did any heavy lifting such as Deads, Squats, BP etc in the two days prior to testing. I'm just doing cardio until then.
 
fueledpassion

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fueled,

I'm 63 and my natural test levels without any help are about 20 points higher than TT's, but still very low and even for a 60+ guy. I alternate test boosters that naturally stimulate extra test through my own system. I got back a total test of 550 with my early booster combinations, and 630 later. I think I've discovered better natty boosters since that feel like they have brought levels up a notch or two higher. I've been able to build a lot of strength and some dense muscle by using power lifting techniques. Yet my muscle size is small compared to people that use external test or AAS.

So you can build a lot of strength and stay fairly healthy at the 500+ levels, but anyone looking for the larger muscle and leanness with it, does need to go further. I have no problem with that as long as one can stay healthy, and it's very possible today. "Black Market" has no meaning to me, there's just legal and illegal, and stuff that you can or cannot stay healthy with use.
Then again, I'm also alot smaller too. I don't know if that has anything to do with it but being 75-100lbs less in weight than alot of bb'ers may have a huge impact on how much total test I need to maintain healthiness and strength. However, I do know that 1g of Test/week has a significantly different and more effective impact on my muscle tissue than it does to a 250lb man.
 

tuberman

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I plan to leave the VA and go back to using my original Naturopathic Doc. First visit went well and along with all the vitamin testing he has me doing a bood test for the full spectrum of testosterone related issues which the VA wouldn't do, this week. I have had issues with my test and PSA in the past whenever I did any heavy lifting such as Deads, Squats, BP etc in the two days prior to testing. I'm just doing cardio until then.
Dutch,

Anything that heavily stresses your system during a workout is going to short-term mess with test related issues. If your're pushing yourself to the 85-90% or higher ranges, and especially in long workouts, that is going to have a negative impact for those things. Of course, that's also what gets good results, it's just that we're talking blood tests here.
 
Dutchman

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Dutch,

Anything that heavily stresses your system during a workout is going to short-term mess with test related issues. If your're pushing yourself to the 85-90% or higher ranges, and especially in long workouts, that is going to have a negative impact for those things. Of course, that's also what gets good results, it's just that we're talking blood tests here.
I'm talking my blood test scores as well. My laptop is out for the next two weeks to have the IO repaired or I would look for the references I believe I saved. Both heavy lifting and sex drive my test and PSA numbers up and that's not what I want on my blood test.
 

tuberman

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I'm talking my blood test scores as well. My laptop is out for the next two weeks to have the IO repaired or I would look for the references I believe I saved. Both heavy lifting and sex drive my test and PSA numbers up and that's not what I want on my blood test.
i wasn't thinking about that correctly.

You're right, of course, anything that forces you to tighten your core area, glutes, or groin would have to increase those factors and intense, long-term cardio decreases testostrone, but I'm not sure that cardio would do anything with PSA (would not make it go up though).

What have your PSA scores been like recently? I'm curious.
 
Dutchman

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i wasn't thinking about that correctly.

You're right, of course, anything that forces you to tighten your core area, glutes, or groin would have to increase those factors and intense, long-term cardio decreases testostrone, but I'm not sure that cardio would do anything with PSA (would not make it go up though).

What have your PSA scores been like recently? I'm curious.
Back in the 90's I used to go up to 10 because of my extreme BPH. Now I stay between 7 and 9. That's why I had to go through slow years with the genetic PSA test called PCA3 and the PSAF test, then followed by watchful monitoring for the 6 months of Androderm patches and then the first 6 months at 200 mg of test cyp. They wanted to be absolutely sure that my test scores didn't rocket up while using test. Now I am back at the evaluation stage again and have my fingers crossed. I test tomorrow and should get the results back on Feb 1st.
 

tuberman

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Back in the 90's I used to go up to 10 because of my extreme BPH. Now I stay between 7 and 9. That's why I had to go through slow years with the genetic PSA test called PCA3 and the PSAF test, then followed by watchful monitoring for the 6 months of Androderm patches and then the first 6 months at 200 mg of test cyp. They wanted to be absolutely sure that my test scores didn't rocket up while using test. Now I am back at the evaluation stage again and have my fingers crossed. I test tomorrow and should get the results back on Feb 1st.

Well, If you had enough time I would suggest getting Feverfew. It's an herb that many use for migraine headaches that nothing else seems to stop. It works by undercutting inflammation factors such as NFkappaB and IL6 at their roots, as it stops the body temporarily from producing them in large quantities. BPH is supported by these inflammation factors and stopping them has a powerful effect on BPH. I had test at 5.7 a year or so ago and my MD was pushing me to get the extra tests. I didn't do that, but this year I did some exploring of the issue using the internet and decided to try Feverfew as I thought I was going to test above 6.0 and the doc would really push for the extras. So I took 3 per day for two days before the test and test came back at 3.2 in the normal range. My blood was very thin though and this is an issue with Feverfew. Whenever I take even 2 per day for over a week I begin to bruise easily, not the big, ugly bruises, but noticeable, and I take that as a warning and stop for a while then come back with 1 per day.
 
TINYTOAD

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Tiny,

BTW, I know you do a lot of cardio, and that can decrease your total test score quite a bit, if you did more than an hour per day the week before your blood test. If I decide in the future to get TRT I would get up to over 2 hours per day with about 45 minutes every other day of intense cardio, and that should drop score by a lot. I would do that at least 2 weeks before the blood test and eliminate anything that would boost test.
I have not been doing a lot of cardio. Typically, I will do 30 minutes tops, every other day. The rest of the time, I focus on upper body strength. Except for maybe some heavy bench press stuff, trying to break my record, I really didn't do any serious lifting.

I'm still waiting for the script to clear with my insurance. I sure as heck don't want to pay 380+ per month for my prescription.

I thought about augmenting the amount with test prop or test cyp if I can get my hands on some powder again. For now, I just want to get my test levels into the normal range. I opted for a transdermal, rather than shots, because of the more even levels, plus I already have a lot of scar tissue in my poor medial deltoids from past pinning. Nurses comment on it each year when I get my flu shot.

This darn cold just keeps hanging on. I spent all weekend in bed resting, but I think I'm almost over this [email protected]. I was really aching on Monday, but I'm doing much better today.

Thanks to all for your input!

-TT

P.S. Sorry I'm not responding more quickly, but I seem to be missing a lot of the "xxx has replied to the thread that you subscribed to..." messages.
 
Dutchman

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Well, If you had enough time I would suggest getting Feverfew. It's an herb that many use for migraine headaches that nothing else seems to stop. It works by undercutting inflammation factors such as NFkappaB and IL6 at their roots, as it stops the body temporarily from producing them in large quantities. BPH is supported by these inflammation factors and stopping them has a powerful effect on BPH. I had test at 5.7 a year or so ago and my MD was pushing me to get the extra tests. I didn't do that, but this year I did some exploring of the issue using the internet and decided to try Feverfew as I thought I was going to test above 6.0 and the doc would really push for the extras. So I took 3 per day for two days before the test and test came back at 3.2 in the normal range. My blood was very thin though and this is an issue with Feverfew. Whenever I take even 2 per day for over a week I begin to bruise easily, not the big, ugly bruises, but noticeable, and I take that as a warning and stop for a while then come back with 1 per day.
Great tip,thanks! I had never even heard of Feverfew. Now after an hour on Google I am up to speed. It's too late to help me for my appointment this morning but I will get some right away and try it. I did my usual with Beta-Sitosterol, Pygeum, Stinging Nettle Root and Milk Thistle....we'll see when the numbers come back.
 

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