Starting a test cycle with Low Natural T caused by orals?

[julez996]

I've screwed up my Natural Test levels with orals. I just got my bloods 4 days ago and the results were not good.
At the moment im at 9.2nmol/l (It was 18.2nmol/l 2 years ago). Somehow i do not have any issues with my Balls. They work fine, look fine and my sex drive is still here.

My first cycle was DBOL only, but at a very low dosage and only for 6 weeks. I took 10-15mg per day and took a proper PCT (Clomid for 4 weeks). This cycle was around 10 months ago.
6 Months later i tried out LGD4033 for a short time. I took 10mg per day for 4 weeks and then also did a proper PCT with Enclomiphene.
So my last cycle was 4 months ago, sadly my test still didnt come back to normal until now.

I wanted to start a Rad140 + MK677 Cycle but i cancelled it because of my Bloods results.
I do not plan on using SARMS / Orals again without a base, since they fucked me up that bad.

I'm currently 27 Years old, 1'84m and weight 80kg.
I go to the gym 6x per Week since 2 years and have a healthy diet.

Now i was thinking about a 16-20 Week Test Cypionate Cycle instead.
Would it be important to do another PCT before i start the cycle? Do my Natural T levels need to be back in a normal range before i start pinning test?
Im asking because injecting test will stop my natural T Production completly anyways as far as im informed.
Would you guys advise me doing a 4 Week PCT beforehand, (hopefully) get my test levels back to normal and then start the cycle?
Or could i just start right now? Would it make a difference?
My main concern is that my natural T production will be fucked even more after the test cycle then they were from SARMS.
As long as i can do proper PCT and regenerate my natural T after the cycle im happy. Im not planning to go on TRT for the rest of my life.

Thanks for all the advice!

 

[Stacks1]

This is a bit of a silly question dude. You say you don't want to go on TRT for the rest of your life but you are contemplating running a 20 week test cycle with already low natural testosterone?

If your real goal is to avoid TRT, then you need to get your test back to it's baseline (approximately) and then keep it there. Seeing a temporary jump over 4 weeks from enclo isn't just going to tell you enough.

If you decide to jump straight on cycle or do a quick 4 week PCT and jump on cycle, then you should fully prepare yourself for TRT. Not trying to scare you here but that is the clear path here.

 

[julez996]

This is a bit of a silly question dude. You say you don't want to go on TRT for the rest of your life but you are contemplating running a 20 week test cycle with already low natural testosterone?

If your real goal is to avoid TRT, then you need to get your test back to it's baseline (approximately) and then keep it there. Seeing a temporary jump over 4 weeks from enclo isn't just going to tell you enough.

If you decide to jump straight on cycle or do a quick 4 week PCT and jump on cycle, then you should fully prepare yourself for TRT. Not trying to scare you here but that is the clear path here.

Thanks alot dude!
That was the answer im looking for.

I was just wondering because alot of people told me my Natural T levels do not matter when i go on a test Cycle.
They said it could be even lower but it doesnt matter since im gonna inject it anyways.

Correct, i do not plan going on TRT for the rest of my life.
So the best i could do is PCT for 4 weeks, take bloods and let me body adapt again. correct?

I got recommended 12.5mg Enclo with 5mg of Nolva for PCT.
Could you approve this dosage?

 

[Stacks1]

Thanks alot dude!
That was the answer im looking for.

I was just wondering because alot of people told me my Natural T levels do not matter when i go on a test Cycle.
They said it could be even lower but it doesnt matter since im gonna inject it anyways.

Correct, i do not plan going on TRT for the rest of my life.
So the best i could do is PCT for 4 weeks, take bloods and let me body adapt again. correct?

I got recommended 12.5mg Enclo with 5mg of Nolva for PCT.
Could you approve this dosage?

I really don't want to tell you what to do. And since I don't have a crystal ball, I can't tell you what will happen. But think of it like this:

The longer you continue to keep your natural test suppressed, the more likely you can expect that it won't rebound.

So, you can do a 4 week PCT of enclo, but you're still on enclo. Meaning you're not taking any time off in between the PCT and cycle to see if your body is actually producing test at your baseline numbers. That's the part that seems to be left out here.

 

[julez996]

I really don't want to tell you what to do. And since I don't have a crystal ball, I can't tell you what will happen. But think of it like this:

The longer you continue to keep your natural test suppressed, the more likely you can expect that it won't rebound.

So, you can do a 4 week PCT of enclo, but you're still on enclo. Meaning you're not taking any time off in between the PCT and cycle to see if your body is actually producing test at your baseline numbers. That's the part that seems to be left out here.

So i've planned a 4 Week PCT Protocol with 12.5mg Enclo and 5mg of Nolva. Gonna do bloods after.
After the PCT im gonna wait another 4 weeks and take another bloods to see if my test is back at baseline.

I do not want you to tell me what to do, i'd just like a opinion on the dosages and duration.

Thanks!

 

[Smont]

Sometimes it takes longer to bounce back. It can take over 6 months to come back to baseline sometimes. Or sometimes you get to a point it wont come back. At bare minimum might wait a few more months before running your cycle.. Get your levels tested again in August and see where they're at.

 

[Stacks1]

So i've planned a 4 Week PCT Protocol with 12.5mg Enclo and 5mg of Nolva. Gonna do bloods after.
After the PCT im gonna wait another 4 weeks and take another bloods to see if my test is back at baseline.

I do not want you to tell me what to do, i'd just like a opinion on the dosages and duration.

Thanks!

My point is that if you end the enclo and your back to your baseline, it doesn't mean you'll still be there 3 or 4 months after you ended it. Your test could still drop back down to where it was. That's why I agree with Smont that you need more time off.

 

[Jbtwentytwo]

I had a similar experience I believe I suppressed my natural test in my early 20s running SARMs. My natty test levels typically range from 330-360. I’ve used all the natty products on this forum that everyone recommends and they all do work great but at the end of the day it’s not anabolics. At one point my test was 540 which I believe was from running Hyperion from apex alchemy.

Last year I ran my first ever test cycle at 28. My pre test levels before I started the cycle were 330. Long story short I ran a 20 week cycle and PCTed off. I started my PCT at the end of October last year. I just recently pulled my bloods in may and was back to my baseline test it was actually slightly higher (360). I just started back up a low dose cycle of test just because I feel so much better in a higher range as most people would.

 

[Hyde]

If you don’t like the idea of needing TRT eventually, don’t cycle. 10lbs of muscle is not worth being unhappy with needing a weekly injection for the rest of your life. And if you are recovering poorly from short, modest oral cycles you can expect much worse impact from longer, proper cycles.

Do your PCT now, and take bloods again in 3 months, but I would strongly advise reconsidering what you really want vs what you’re willing to pay. Because if you go down that road, you just might have to pay it.

 

[Stacks1]

If you don’t like the idea of needing TRT eventually, don’t cycle. 10lbs of muscle is not worth being unhappy with needing a weekly injection for the rest of your life. And if you are recovering poorly from short, modest oral cycles you can expect much worse impact from longer, proper cycles.

Do your PCT now, and take bloods again in 3 months, but I would strongly advise reconsidering what you really want vs what you’re willing to pay. Because if you go down that road, you just might have to pay it.

Yeah, I agree with this. All roads will usually lead to TRT. I started lifting when I was 13 years old but I didn't start cycling until I was in my mid 30s. I also take longer breaks in between cycles than a lot of other people.

Did I leave significant gains on the table starting later and cycling more scarcely than others? Absolutely. But I didn't want to have to hop directly on to TRT, and even more importantly, I wanted to keep my health markers good. As you get older, you start to care a little less about going on TRT and more about your health markers. My test is still good but I've accepted that at some point I will likely be on TRT. I think the main reason my test is still in the 700s is because I started later and took longer breaks in between cycles. When I started my first cycle in my 30s there were other people my age who already had 30 or 40 cycles under their belt.

 

[julez996]

I had a similar experience I believe I suppressed my natural test in my early 20s running SARMs. My natty test levels typically range from 330-360. I’ve used all the natty products on this forum that everyone recommends and they all do work great but at the end of the day it’s not anabolics. At one point my test was 540 which I believe was from running Hyperion from apex alchemy.

Last year I ran my first ever test cycle at 28. My pre test levels before I started the cycle were 330. Long story short I ran a 20 week cycle and PCTed off. I started my PCT at the end of October last year. I just recently pulled my bloods in may and was back to my baseline test it was actually slightly higher (360). I just started back up a low dose cycle of test just because I feel so much better in a higher range as most people would.

Damn that sounds familiar!

So did the SARMS surpress you more then the actual test cycle? Which ones did you take? and how much mg test for how many weeks were you runnning?
Im a bit scared that a long test cycle will supress my natural T even more considering this 2 mild oral cycle screwed them over still months later

 

[julez996]

Sometimes it takes longer to bounce back. It can take over 6 months to come back to baseline sometimes. Or sometimes you get to a point it wont come back. At bare minimum might wait a few more months before running your cycle.. Get your levels tested again in August and see where they're at.

Yes i will definitely wait another few months before im starting anything.
Im gonna finish 4 weeks of PCT (12.5mg enclo & 5mg of nolva) and take bloods again in August.

Im curious what a real, multiple month long Test cycle would do to my Natural T values. Considering those very mild Orals (10mg for 4 weeks) cycles kept my Natural values down even 4 months after cycle.

 

[Smont]

Enclo 25mg, nolva 20mg and if you really wanna do it right you should have used some hcg before the serms.

Also if you have been running pct and Immediately started cycles right afterwards.Then you might as well have just stayed on cycle and never did a pct. Thats probably the main issue right there

 

[julez996]

Enclo 25mg, nolva 20mg and if you really wanna do it right you should have used some hcg before the serms.

Also if you have been running pct and Immediately started cycles right afterwards.Then you might as well have just stayed on cycle and never did a pct. Thats probably the main issue right there

Thanks for the advice! Damn im not even using half of your recommended dosage the past week...
I sadly have no acess to HCG in my country. Nolva and Enclo were the best i could get.

After the first cycle i did 4 weeks of PCT and waited 4 more months until i started the LGD.
It's now been 4 Months since i finished the LGD cycle, also did 4 weeks of PCT after. But still, 4 months after this mild LGD cycle, my natural T values are down 50% compared to 2 years ago.

 

[Stacks1]

Yes i will definitely wait another few months before im starting anything.
Im gonna finish 4 weeks of PCT (12.5mg enclo & 5mg of nolva) and take bloods again in August.

Im curious what a real, multiple month long Test cycle would do to my Natural T values. Considering those very mild Orals (10mg for 4 weeks) cycles kept my Natural values down even 4 months after cycle.

That's not really how it works. A month of test would probably be less suppressive than a month of orals... but who runs test for a month? That's not enough time to make any gains. Having said that, 20 weeks is a long time. I would settle for the middle ground of about 12 weeks in your case. But a month is a waste, and honestly, probably more counterproductive than anything.

 

[julez996]

That's not really how it works. A month of test would probably be less suppressive than a month of orals... but who runs test for a month? That's not enough time to make any gains. Having said that, 20 weeks is a long time. I would settle for the middle ground of about 12 weeks in your case. But a month is a waste, and honestly, probably more counterproductive than anything.

Sorry i meant Multiple Months long cycle. I was talking about the 20 weeks.

I was thinking about a 16 Week Cycle. But i have to say 12 weeks sounds way more reasonable for my personal case. Thanks!

 

[Jbtwentytwo]

Damn that sounds familiar!

So did the SARMS surpress you more then the actual test cycle? Which ones did you take? and how much mg test for how many weeks were you runnning?
Im a bit scared that a long test cycle will supress my natural T even more considering this 2 mild oral cycle screwed them over still months later

I’m assuming the SARMs really suppressed me. I can’t say for sure because this was when I was early 20s and was taking like YK11, rad from a supplement shop near me. I never did blood work or anything. So I can’t say for sure if that’s what suppressed me or if naturally I had low test to begin with.
I ran 300mg of test for 20 weeks.

 

[Hyde]

Run the cycle, start doing all the right things to increase testosterone (competition, high cholesterol diet, active lifestyle, sunlight exposure down there, etc) then get off cycle probably come back higher levels if your lifestyle supports it

Great advice here ^

Everyone always forgets tanning your nuts & joining a CrossFit box prevents the suppression normally caused by injecting exogenous testosterone.

#liverking