Serotonin & Dopamine...

[Synapsin]

Cooper is a, at least to my knowledge, a proponent of supplemental vit D3.
mr.cooper69 Synapsin De__eB

If this is true, which the overwhelming doesnt support, then I want to hear it from these guys.

Toxicity from Vit D requires an incredibly high dose, but Hypercalcemia is certainly possible at realistic doses (especially if combined with supplementing calcium). It's pretty rare though.

 

[Jiigzz]

what? jigzz, I am shocked by your own lack of thought in that post
where the hell did I say anything remotely resembling what you accuse me of?
I think you need some sleep buddy

Thought you were digging at me with that post is all.

I've been slammed a bit in the training world for citing studies on various things only to have people throw in similar comments.

 

[996ttelise]

This probably needs a cooper or synapsin response but remember there is vitamin D and vitamin D3 supplements and,during colder winter months it should be almost mandatory to get extra d3 in the system considering the sun is the main source of it.

The safe UL is noted at around 10,000iu and there are so many benefits with supplementing with d3, if deficiet, that doing so in winter should be paramount.

Can I ask you what basis you lay the claim that supplementing with it is not needed given the plethora of data on the subject showing benefits?

What data, studies on 50 to 70 year old women???

Seriously, you would recommend a healthy, young white male with normal D 1,25 levels take 10,000 ius a day? Kind hurts your credibility as to any recommendations. Those doses are contemplated for geriatric women with severe deficiencies and an inability to convert naturally and 10,000 ius and 10,000 ius can potentially cause hypervitaminosis.

Data . . . Read my last post so you can perhaps understand why supplemental d can cause hypercalcemia whereas natural conversion of sunlight will not cause hypercalcemia and throw body out of a state of homeostasis as far as regulation of serum calcium levels.

 

[Jiigzz]

What data, studies on 50 to 70 year old women???

Seriously, you would recommend a healthy, young white male with normal D 1,25 levels take 10,000 ius a day? Kind hurts your credibility as to any recommendations. Those doses are contemplated for geriatric women with severe deficiencies and an inability to convert naturally and 10,000 ius and 10,000 ius can potentially cause hypervitaminosis.

Data . . . Read my last post so you can perhaps understand why supplemental d can cause hypercalcemia whereas natural conversion of sunlight will not cause hypercalcemia and throw body out of a state of homeostasis as far as regulation of serum calcium levels.

I didnt say their levels were normal. Theres no way I could know that. But vit d supplementation is very common

 

[Young Gotti]

I know you put "vit D" in there when you typed it, but let's just be real and fill in the blank with whatever you want
this forum is great, but ppl sure stretch the credibility of this or that study etc when attempting to "prove a point"
I get a chuckle almost daily

gotta love this place

 

[MyKH3LL]

I have to admit that during my current 'cycle' of DOPADEX I've not only had some of the best sleep (and most intense dreams) of my life but my mood has been amazing. I feel positive and generally have a real spring in my step.

The sex life is also reaping the rewards

I can highly recommend this product from my own experiences.

 

[Jiigzz]

I know eh? I saw his post and figured no point in getting into a pointless argument.

About vit D: people tend to be more deficient than they think, but not everybody is and its quite easy to take care of. Vit D should realistically be taken by people who have had blood tests showing they are deficient, although it won't hurt most people to supplement vit D. Supplementing it when you don't need it, however, is pointless.

Thanks synapsin. Appreciate the input

 

[996ttelise]

Toxicity from Vit D requires an incredibly high dose, but Hypercalcemia is certainly possible at realistic doses (especially if combined with supplementing calcium). It's pretty rare though.

Hypothetically, do you disagree that 10,000 ius a day could potentially cause hypercalcemia in a 30 year old, white male on a healthy diet that has normal D 1,25 levels and normal serum calcium without the additional d supplementation?

I primarily responded to note that the feel good effect from sun has little or nothing to do with vitamin d and more to do with an opioid B-endorphin stimulation.

I, however, do feel that people on here are using studies or data completely unrelated to healthy white young males to promote use of something that may not be needed and that could potentially cause problems.

Get blood work including D 1,25, calcium and maybe PTH, before ingesting 5,000 or 10,000 ius of d3 a day.

 

[Synapsin]

Thanks synapsin. Appreciate the input

Any time.

Hypothetically, do you disagree that 10,000 ius a day could potentially cause hypercalcemia in a 30 year old, white male on a healthy diet that has normal D 1,25 levels and normal serum calcium without the additional d supplementation?

Get blood work including D 1,25, calcium and maybe PTH, before ingesting 5,000 or 10,000 ius of d3 a day.

Yes, it is certainly possible. It would be rare but it can definitely happen, especially if they have any other relevant health issues. I personally supplement 10k IU in the Winter, but its because I test myself and I spend most of the day indoors. Like I said, you shouldn't supplement it if you don't know you're deficient in it.

 

[MyKH3LL]

Hypothetically, do you disagree that 10,000 ius a day could potentially cause hypercalcemia in a 30 year old, white male on a healthy diet that has normal D 1,25 levels and normal serum calcium without the additional d supplementation?

I primarily responded to note that the feel good effect from sun has little or nothing to do with vitamin d and more to do with an opioid B-endorphin stimulation.

I, however, do feel that people on here are using studies or data completely unrelated to healthy white young males to promote use of something that may not be needed and that could potentially cause problems.

Get blood work including D 1,25, calcium and maybe PTH, before ingesting 5,000 or 10,000 ius of d3 a day.

I dose 10,000 IU of VD3 mon-fri and have done so for... probably years now. I'm just shy of turning 30 myself.

No health issues and only positive things to report. I think most people are D3 deficit without even knowing it and supplementing with it is a great idea. Should be a staple imho... oh, and FWIW I'm in Australia so not exactly short of the sunshine down here.

 

[996ttelise]

I know eh? I saw his post and figured no point in getting into a pointless argument.

About vit D: people tend to be more deficient than they think, but not everybody is and its quite easy to take care of. Vit D should realistically be taken by people who have had blood tests showing they are deficient, although it won't hurt most people to supplement vit D. Supplementing it when you don't need it, however, is pointless.

What demographics of people tend to be deficient is the real question. I doubt those that tend to be deficient, 50 to 70 year old grams, are on here reading about weight lifting supplements. They reduced lower end range of 1,25 down to 20ng/ml which took most out of the "deficient range."

D 1,25 levels fluctuate and a single low reading could be attributable to a high calcium intake day or an underlying parathyroid issue, both of which would be contraindicated for d supplementation.

 

[996ttelise]

I dose 10,000 IU of VD3 mon-fri and have done so for... probably years now. I'm just shy of turning 30 myself.

No health issues and only positive things to report. I think most people are D3 deficit without even knowing it and supplementing with it is a great idea. Should be a staple imho... oh, and FWIW I'm in Australia so not exactly short of the sunshine down here.

You could be causing damage to your arteries and not know it for some time. If content on taking high doses of d3 for no health reason or deficiency, might consider speaking to a doctor about vit k.

I am all for people taking whatever and doing whatever with their body. I, however, see so many young people on here completely jacked up. How sad is it 20 something year olds needing libido enhancers. You may think your not doing any damage, but it may take a while to manifest.

 

[Clean gene]

You make a valid point also. Both your points are along the same lines. One is backed by big pharma and the other by big vitamin companies.

Most people in our instant gratification society wants quick results and answers. That is not the reality of dealing with personal psychology, even though the science of psychology has become just as big of a pill pusher as the AMA. I used to tell my patients to talk, listen and meditate, not medicate. Truly, most psychological disorders are minor in the public at large. There is a small part of the population that really needs psycho active drugs for their disorders.

I would rather see the original poster take D3 than have some ''expert" put him on Abilify or prozac and make him even worse than he started. Abilify for example is a very power antipsychotic drug now being touted for bipolar disorder or just plain depression. This Stuff is scary to use on a ''normal person'' it can possible make a person worse off then they were.

Take a step back and breathe. Get out in nature. Hike, walk. Don't look for the quick answer.

I agree that many times SSRIs are handed up absent proper testing resulting in an exacerbation of the problem, especially if the problem is xy axis related. Docs are getting a little better these days regarding the SSRIs.

Telling someone (especially younger white males) to take D3 without knowing their baseline, however, is perhaps no better than a GP prescribing an SSRI to someone depressed because of jacked hormones. Even with baseline tests, a low D and high blood calcium could be indicative of a parathyroid. Low D3 prohibits intestines from absorbing more calcium to protect the body from high blood calcium levels. Ingesting more D3 could be very, very bad even if you have low D-25 without a full understanding of the bigger picture.

The point here is that a healthy younger individual eating a proper diet will generally have homeostasis with D3 and calcium levels. The lower range D25 blood level was also recently reduced from 30ng to 20ng. I doubt very seriously most, if any of you, need or will benefit from D supplements if you are less than 30, male, or non-Hispanic white. Candidly, unless you are some 65 year old granny with jacked hormones, have Parkinson's, MS et al., vitamin D will perhaps do nothing for you. So much misinformation or manipulation of data employed to promote D.

 

[996ttelise]

You make a valid point also. Both your points are along the same lines. One is backed by big pharma and the other by big vitamin companies.

Most people in our instant gratification society wants quick results and answers. That is not the reality of dealing with personal psychology, even though the science of psychology has become just as big of a pill pusher as the AMA. I used to tell my patients to talk, listen and meditate, not medicate. Truly, most psychological disorders are minor in the public at large. There is a small part of the population that really needs psycho active drugs for their disorders.

I would rather see the original poster take D3 than have some ''expert" put him on Abilify or prozac and make him even worse than he started. Abilify for example is a very power antipsychotic drug now being touted for bipolar disorder or just plain depression. This Stuff is scary to use on a ''normal person'' it can possible make a person worse off then they were.

Take a step back and breathe. Get out in nature. Hike, walk. Don't look for the quick answer.

For sure.

Screw the D3 and the SSRIs. Go do some Bikram Yoga . . . along with weights and eating right. Bikram Yoga will get you right. I need to start back up.

 

[chedapalooza]

For sure.

Screw the D3 and the SSRIs. Go do some Bikram Yoga . . . along with weights and eating right. Bikram Yoga will get you right. I need to start back up.

Ill look this up but what is the important cliff notes for bikram yoga? I was under the impression certain types of yoga r detrimental to body building efforts due to the practice of Elongating muscles in a way that isn't conducive to BB goals (round/fullness of muscles)...

 

[Jiigzz]

Hypothetically, do you disagree that 10,000 ius a day could potentially cause hypercalcemia in a 30 year old, white male on a healthy diet that has normal D 1,25 levels and normal serum calcium without the additional d supplementation?

I primarily responded to note that the feel good effect from sun has little or nothing to do with vitamin d and more to do with an opioid B-endorphin stimulation.

I, however, do feel that people on here are using studies or data completely unrelated to healthy white young males to promote use of something that may not be needed and that could potentially cause problems.

Get blood work including D 1,25, calcium and maybe PTH, before ingesting 5,000 or 10,000 ius of d3 a day.

I use 1,000-2,000iu daily. I wasnt saying to use 10,000iu just to be clear

 

[De__eB]

Cooper is a, at least to my knowledge, a proponent of supplemental vit D3.
mr.cooper69 Synapsin De__eB

If this is true, which the overwhelming doesnt support, then I want to hear it from these guys.

I'm a fan of vitamin D.

There was a recent study showing a reduction in muscle damage with vitamin D supplementation in healthy, young, active males, with vitamin D levels slightly low yet within normal range (A set of demographics I would imagine a huge number of people in this community fit into)

There is also a difference between clinical deficiency and suboptimal levels of an essential nutrient. Lots of people aren't clinically deficient enough in Vitamin D that they are experiencing significant negative effects as a result, you can still however benefit from supplementation.

E.G.

Leucine is an essential nutrient.

The average person is not deficient in leucine.

You can however consume more leucine every day and experience beneficial effects.

 

[Jiigzz]

I'm a fan of vitamin D.

There was a recent study showing a reduction in muscle damage with vitamin D supplementation in healthy, young, active males, with vitamin D levels slightly low yet within normal range (A set of demographics I would imagine a huge number of people in this community fit into)

There is also a difference between clinical deficiency and suboptimal levels of an essential nutrient. Lots of people aren't clinically deficient enough in Vitamin D that they are experiencing significant negative effects as a result, you can still however benefit from supplementation.

E.G.

Leucine is an essential nutrient.

The average person is not deficient in leucine.

You can however consume more leucine every day and experience beneficial effects.

I did a research paper on vit d a year or so ago and the vast majority of studies were positive and I was wondering if I had missed something between now and then that made it dangerous.

 

[snagencyV2.0]

There is also a difference between clinical deficiency and suboptimal levels of an essential nutrient. Lots of people aren't clinically deficient enough in Vitamin D that they are experiencing significant negative effects as a result, you can still however benefit from supplementation.

E.G.

Leucine is an essential nutrient.

The average person is not deficient in leucine.

You can however consume more leucine every day and experience beneficial effects.

I can grasp the point you are trying to make..however, comparing excess amino intake with excessive vitamin/mineral intake, above optimal or established levels, is certainly apples & oranges no?

more melatonin does not better sleep make..more zinc does not more T make..and too much potassium can stop your heart, just to name a few

 

[KevinJackson]

I think medical consultancy is better for depression kind of thing.

 

[996ttelise]

My wife, an endo, says not to take more than 1,000 ius daily and most healthy young males only need 400 to 800. She works with rehabbing professional athletes at Andrews Clinic after injuries and surgery and surgical repair. Diet and hormone optimization is a big piece here.

I cannot link to her so below are some articles and blurbs. As with anything, read skeptically and realize that excess of fat soluable vitamins might not be as safe as you think.

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The good news is that you can't overdose on the vitamin D manufactured by your skin. But as for vitamin D in the diet and in pills, Sandon says that the upper limit is 2,000 IU a day. "Vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin, so it's stored in the body," she says. "If you're taking a supplement that puts your daily intake at more than 2,000 IU, you can get a toxic or overdose effect, which can possibly lead to kidney stones or kidney damage, muscle weakness, or excessive bleeding."

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Here is a doctor that basically says don't exceed 1,000 ius and excess d over time can cause cardiac issues, calcification of arteries, calcification of vessels in the brain, calcufucation of soft tissues, atrial fibrillation, increased levels of CRP, impaired kidney function and . . .

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Dr. Jo Ann Carson, a clinical nutritionist at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas, says dietary vitamin D offers a solution for people who are at high risk of skin cancer or who just don't want to take any chances.

Taking a vitamin D supplement every day can also help, but don't take more than 1,000 IU per day, Carson said.

Read more: Invalid Link Removed

 

[De__eB]

blah blah webmd and blogspam

Not seeing where one could possibly draw the conclusion from any published data that over 2000 iu, much less over 1000 iu is risky. The predominant UL suggested by pretty much all modern published analysis is 10,000 IU

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Because long-term daily intakes up to and including 10 000 IU of vitamin D do not produce signs or symptoms of vitamin D toxicity and are safe for the entire general population of otherwise healthy adults, even daily vitamin D intakes of 2000 IU allow for the often-cited and excessively conservative five-fold safety factor. In conclusion, long-term daily intakes of up to and including 10 000 IU of vitamin D maximize physiologic benefits and are safe.

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We present a risk assessment based on relevant, well-designed human clinical trials of vitamin D. Collectively, the absence of toxicity in trials conducted in healthy adults that used vitamin D dose > or = 250 microg/d (10,000 IU vitamin D3) supports the confident selection of this value as the UL.

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. The clinical trial evidence shows that a prolonged intake of 250 mug (10,000 IU)/d of vitamin D(3) is likely to pose no risk of adverse effects in almost all individuals in the general population; this meets the criteria for a tolerable upper intake level.

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Safety research supports an upper limit of a dose of vitamin D to be more than or equal to 250 micrograms daily (10,000 IU of vitamin D3)

 

[996ttelise]

Not seeing where one could possibly draw the conclusion from any published data that over 2000 iu, much less over 1000 iu is risky. The predominant UL suggested by pretty much all modern published analysis is 10,000 IU

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Haha, I will err on side of advice from doctors as opposed to that 2007 Pub Med study.

Perhaps the issue is not simply toxicity if you read the article by the doctor above and as I noted earlier. There are concerns about long term calcification of arteries and soft tissue, increased incidence of atrial fibrillation and a host of other potential issues that may not fit neatly with the purview of observed acute toxicity.

BTW, are all three of your links all related to or based on the same 2007 study?

Why bang away at 5,000 or 10,000 ius daily when no doctors seem to be saying that is necessary or beneficial in young healthy males, much less geriatrics. Just the if good, more must be better mentality of those peddling supplements.

 

[De__eB]

Haha, I will err on side of advice from doctors as opposed to that 2007 Pub Med study.

Perhaps the issue is not simply toxicity if you read the article by the doctor above and as I noted earlier. There are concerns about long term calcification of arteries and soft tissue, increased incidence of atrial fibrillation and a host of other potential issues that may not fit neatly with the purview of observed acute toxicity.

BTW, are all three of your links all related to or based on the same 2007 study?

Why bang away at 5,000 or 10,000 ius daily when no doctors seem to be saying that is necessary or beneficial in young healthy males, much less geriatrics. Just the if good, more must be better mentality of those peddling supplements.

What? It's three different meta-analysis, and the mayoclinics guidelines.

I'll take the advice of those published peer reviewed sources and an authority on medicine over a random quack who also shills, LAUGHABLY underdosed supplements (see: Invalid Link Removed) an unsourced news article, and an unsourced webmd article.


Note, I'm not saying everyone should supplement 10,000 IU per day, I'm just saying that to suggest that there are no benefits, and in fact significant risks at any dosing higher than 1,000 or 2,000 IU is just laughable scare tactics.

 

[996ttelise]

What? It's three different meta-analysis, and the mayoclinics guidelines.

I'll take the advice of those published peer reviewed sources and an authority on medicine over a random quack who also shills, LAUGHABLY underdosed supplements (see: Invalid Link Removed) an unsourced news article, and an unsourced webmd article.


Note, I'm not saying everyone should supplement 10,000 IU per day, I'm just saying that to suggest that there are no benefits, and in fact significant risks at any dosing higher than 1,000 or 2,000 IU is just laughable scare tactics.

I believe there was only one 2007 study that addresses toxicity at 10,000 ius. You still ignore the artery calcification, soft tissue calcufication or potential increased incidence in congestive heart failure issues. Even the 10,000 iu ul has been questioned as to safety as noted below. You focus on acute toxicity. The concerns seem to be related to long term cardiovascular impact and etc.

You evade the real issues and still produce notta saying that a young healthy male would benefit from greater than 1,000 ius. Candidly, its all good and vitamin d is perhaps so low on the list of potentially harmful substances being ingested around here it is not worth discussing.

About to catch our flight to Bali. Happy holidays.

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While symptoms of toxicity are unlikely at daily intakes below 10,000 IU/day, the FNB pointed to emerging science from national survey data, observational studies, and clinical trials suggesting that even lower vitamin D intakes and serum 25(OH)D levels might have adverse health effects over time. The FNB concluded that serum 25(OH)D levels above approximately 125–150 nmol/L (50–60 ng/mL) should be avoided, as even lower serum levels (approximately 75–120 nmol/L or 30–48 ng/mL) are associated with increases in all-cause mortality, greater risk of cancer at some sites like the pancreas, greater risk of cardiovascular events, and more falls and fractures among the elderly. The FNB committee cited research which found that vitamin D intakes of 5,000 IU/day achieved serum 25(OH)D concentrations between 100–150 nmol/L (40–60 ng/mL), but no greater. Applying an uncertainty factor of 20% to this intake value gave a UL of 4,000 IU

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[De__eB]

I believe there was only one 2007 study that addresses toxicity at 10,000 ius. You still ignore the artery calcification, soft tissue calcufication or potential increased incidence in congestive heart failure issues. Even the 10,000 iu ul has been questioned as to safety as noted below. You focus on acute toxicity. The concerns seem to be related to long term cardiovascular impact and etc.

You evade the real issues and still produce notta saying that a young healthy male would benefit from greater than 1,000 ius. Candidly, its all good and vitamin d is perhaps so low on the list of potentially harmful substances being ingested around here it is not worth discussing.

About to catch our flight to Bali. Happy holidays.

-----

While symptoms of toxicity are unlikely at daily intakes below 10,000 IU/day, the FNB pointed to emerging science from national survey data, observational studies, and clinical trials suggesting that even lower vitamin D intakes and serum 25(OH)D levels might have adverse health effects over time. The FNB concluded that serum 25(OH)D levels above approximately 125–150 nmol/L (50–60 ng/mL) should be avoided, as even lower serum levels (approximately 75–120 nmol/L or 30–48 ng/mL) are associated with increases in all-cause mortality, greater risk of cancer at some sites like the pancreas, greater risk of cardiovascular events, and more falls and fractures among the elderly. The FNB committee cited research which found that vitamin D intakes of 5,000 IU/day achieved serum 25(OH)D concentrations between 100–150 nmol/L (40–60 ng/mL), but no greater. Applying an uncertainty factor of 20% to this intake value gave a UL of 4,000 IU

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I already referenced a study from this year showing that 4,000 IU daily had exercise benefits in Young, active, non-deficient humans.

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Also, I'm not focusing on acute toxicity at all...The acute tolerable upper limit of vitamin D is something absurd like a 250,000 IU bolus once per month.

All of the references I'm making are about long term daily safety at 10,000 IU.

 

[Jiigzz]

I believe there was only one 2007 study that addresses toxicity at 10,000 ius. You still ignore the artery calcification, soft tissue calcufication or potential increased incidence in congestive heart failure issues. Even the 10,000 iu ul has been questioned as to safety as noted below. You focus on acute toxicity. The concerns seem to be related to long term cardiovascular impact and etc.

You evade the real issues and still produce notta saying that a young healthy male would benefit from greater than 1,000 ius. Candidly, its all good and vitamin d is perhaps so low on the list of potentially harmful substances being ingested around here it is not worth discussing.

About to catch our flight to Bali. Happy holidays.

-----

While symptoms of toxicity are unlikely at daily intakes below 10,000 IU/day, the FNB pointed to emerging science from national survey data, observational studies, and clinical trials suggesting that even lower vitamin D intakes and serum 25(OH)D levels might have adverse health effects over time. The FNB concluded that serum 25(OH)D levels above approximately 125–150 nmol/L (50–60 ng/mL) should be avoided, as even lower serum levels (approximately 75–120 nmol/L or 30–48 ng/mL) are associated with increases in all-cause mortality, greater risk of cancer at some sites like the pancreas, greater risk of cardiovascular events, and more falls and fractures among the elderly. The FNB committee cited research which found that vitamin D intakes of 5,000 IU/day achieved serum 25(OH)D concentrations between 100–150 nmol/L (40–60 ng/mL), but no greater. Applying an uncertainty factor of 20% to this intake value gave a UL of 4,000 IU

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Do you have any data of what you are talking about actually occuring? Not just you typing that x happens but data showing x happens at y dose?

 

[996ttelise]

I already referenced a study from this year showing that 4,000 IU daily had exercise benefits in Young, active, non-deficient humans.

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Also, I'm not focusing on acute toxicity at all...The acute tolerable upper limit of vitamin D is something absurd like a 250,000 IU bolus once per month.

All of the references I'm making are about long term daily safety at 10,000 IU.

In sorry, but that study cracks me up. At least what I could read of it before they close the door. Anything to pimp supplements. Potentially wreck your heart on D3 so you are not as sore after your workout. What's a little a fib or calcification in arteries if my recovery after exercise gets better. Love it!

 

[De__eB]

In sorry, but that study cracks me up. At least what I could read of it before they close the door. Anything to pimp supplements. Potentially wreck your heart on D3 so you are not as sore after your workout. What's a little a fib or calcification in arteries if my recovery after exercise gets better. Love it!

Please provide one single shred of data to demonstrate that the 4,000 IU used in that study will have any of the ill effects you're claiming on anybody whatsoever, in the absence of a severe excess of calcium, or severe deficiency of vitamins A and K

I won't hold my breath waiting on it though.

 

[996ttelise]

Please provide one single shred of data to demonstrate that the 4,000 IU used in that study will have any of the ill effects you're claiming on anybody whatsoever, in the absence of a severe excess of calcium, or severe deficiency of vitamins A and K

I won't hold my breath waiting on it though.

Sarcasm bro, sarcasm. 4,000 ius should be safe, just perhaps not necessary. That study is still a riot! I am sure everyone will throw D3 in their PWOs and cite this study! Been real! Off to get some real D!

 

[AndroRage]

I have to admit that during my current 'cycle' of DOPADEX I've not only had some of the best sleep (and most intense dreams) of my life but my mood has been amazing. I feel positive and generally have a real spring in my step. The sex life is also reaping the rewards I can highly recommend this product from my own experiences.

What does you dosage and timing look like? Thanks for your input.

 

[AndroRage]

I can grasp the point you are trying to make..however, comparing excess amino intake with excessive vitamin/mineral intake, above optimal or established levels, is certainly apples & oranges no? more melatonin does not better sleep make..more zinc does not more T make..and too much potassium can stop your heart, just to name a few

Off topic, nonetheless. What is the optimum amount of zinc for testosterone production?

 

[chedapalooza]

Off topic, nonetheless. What is the optimum amount of zinc for testosterone production?

It's probably More so based on what type of zinc before an answer can be given I would imagine

 

[snagencyV2.0]

Off topic, nonetheless. What is the optimum amount of zinc for testosterone production?

I don't have a finite answer for you, and I won't advise X amount of zinc supplementation simply for testosterone production

mineral balance is a crucial component of hormonal function, as well as many other functions in the body..

IMO, while I do not minimize the importance of zinc for T production, I rather look at the bigger picture ie, zinc being important mineral for insulin function and the fact that even a marginal deficiency has been shown to increase insulin resistance and to worsen glycemic control....combined with a deficiency in vitamin D, the two have been implicated in the development of type 1 diabetes and other autoimmune diseases such as crohn’s disease

rather than advise X amount of zinc to supplement, I rather promote a diet heavy in zinc-rich foods
if one chooses to supplement with zinc, preferred forms would be chelates such as zinc picolinate, monomethionine, gluconate and citrate for raising testosterone levels, as would a concurrent reduction (if applicable) in oversupplementation with copper, calcium and iron + a reduction in high fiber dietary consumption

mineral balance can only be tested professionally, but I would encourage anyone to check this if they think they have a problem in this area, rather than self-diagnose and attempt to "fix" on their own

 

[Aleksandar37]

In sorry, but that study cracks me up. At least what I could read of it before they close the door. Anything to pimp supplements. Potentially wreck your heart on D3 so you are not as sore after your workout. What's a little a fib or calcification in arteries if my recovery after exercise gets better. Love it!

You do realize that one of your links was to an M.D. whoring their own supplements right? And I don't believe that SNS sells a vitamin D supplement. Also, M.D.'s get their info from published studies, many much older than ones from 2007.

 

[tinytony]

low dose oral selegiline plus, 1 cap dopadex plus 1 cap of pikatropin would be real ideal to aid in depression

Dopadex is the shiz

 

[andrew732]

Dopadex is the shiz

I agree, use it 5 times a week, at times it can make sleep difficult regardless of my work load but boy I love the effects it has on me...

 

[AndroRage]

I agree, use it 5 times a week, at times it can make sleep difficult regardless of my work load but boy I love the effects it has on me...

What kind of effects, can you elaborate? Thanks

 

[Whacked]

Cool thread

996-nice contributions-thank u

I am not certain what what my conclusion is just yet on vitamin D3 supplementation but I for one appreciate the contrarian position conveyed here!

As I admit I am one who simply added this to my arsenal w/o much thought based on all the proposed litany of benefits.

Time to get my read on.

 

[Whacked]

Are people just taking this stuff at night/pre-sleep?

I agree, use it 5 times a week, at times it can make sleep difficult regardless of my work load but boy I love the effects it has on me...

 

[Young Gotti]

Are people just taking this stuff at night/pre-sleep?

morning, pre workout, pre bed....seems like the most popular ways ppl take it, really depends on what your using it for

a lot of ppl take it for the pumps, it doesn't give me the best pumps, plus my preworkout stack of hemavol and conquer has enough agamtine, so i'll use my bulk powder or pills prebed, doesn't get me hypo like taking a gda pre bed would

 

[ahh123]

I agree, use it 5 times a week, at times it can make sleep difficult regardless of my work load but boy I love the effects it has on me...

What dose you use and when do you take it (with food or no food)?

 

[andrew732]

What dose you use and when do you take it (with food or no food)?

I have found this specific to protocol to be more effective than taking caber or prami and it goes as such:
as soon as you wake up take 1 cap on an empty stomach and do not eat for at least 45 minutes. Take another cap afternoon or preworkout on a training day, and 1 cap before bed on an empty stomach, the results have been substantial for me, I have gained at least 10 lbs no fat, 9-9.5 lbs of glycogen and .5-1lbs of muscle, I am leaner than ever, and hornier than ever, and straight up feel epic lol.

 

[andrew732]

Are people just taking this stuff at night/pre-sleep?

you could but it depends how you react to it, i get calm energy since body has a very low stress response but i get clean energy. I can still take it before bed, some days with or without i get insomnia so to me its effect before bed are irrelevant.