Sarms, trt, or msten/dmz?

mikem456

New member
Overweight 31 year old here, lifting since 15, and never responded well to exercise.
labs show healthy thyroid, high cortisol/acth, high estrogen, low testosterone. My sleep quality declines for 2-3 days after workouts (stressed feelin

going to take some type
Of steroid, not
Sure which. I have access to nolva or clomid for
Pct. Question is should i go
With trt, sarms, or msten/dmz? I have a bottle
On hand of msten/dmz, 20mg dmz/10mg msten per capsule.
6’3” 290lbs

also should i
Go with nolva or
Clomid?

thank you
 
If I were you I would avoid strong anabolics like dmz/msten for right now. A good quality epicatechin product and a cortisol control product would be what I would do in your situation. There are reps on this forum that could help you with those. Concentrate on weight loss and diet. If you lower your body fat there’s a good chance your high estrogen will lower and test will go up and you’ll feel a lot better
 
mikem456 said:
Obviously tried that or i wouldnt be turning to anabolics
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I hear you brother. But you need to understand that anabolics work rather poorly in someone with a lot of extra bodyfat - test gets turned to estrogen, side effects like acne and gyno are more likely, lethargy you already battle from being overweight and tired all the time will be worse, things like high blood pressure can worsen and permanently damage kidneys even. And test aromatizing to estrogen will actually promote more fat storage, vs the loss you want.

I don’t think you need to do it all natural all the way - I think you will greatly benefit from getting your bodyfat down some with diet and cardio first though. If you can drop 40lbs naturally, that’s almost 15% bodyweight off your joints less to carry, less aromatase enzymes, you will see a decrease in estrogen, lipids, triglycerides, fatigue, brain fog, and an increase in natural testosterone, energy, libido, erectile function.

THEN if you still know you want to pursue TRT, if your levels are still far from satisfying, having that bodyfat off will greatly increase your response when you work with your doctor to get your hormones optimized. The body is a complex system, and the healthier you become the easier it will be to get healthier - it snowballs the same way for becoming unhealthy.
 
11-oxo, reduce xt, lean xtreme, + m-test

IF + calorie restriction.
fasted cardio w/ alpha-yohimbine/rauwolscine or yohimbine hcl
 
Anabolics are the worst idea an obese person could think of. It’ll make your situation about twice worse than it’s already is. Also, in a fitness athlete or name it like you want.. the easiest part is usually the lose fat and get leaner. There’s no anabolics that really help or is needed for that. Gaining lean tissue (muscle) is the harder part. You saying you obviously tried that and HAVE to resort to steroids kind of tell everyone you have no idea what it is to suffer, be hungry and lose weight. Steroids will absolutely do nothing for you to lose weight.
 
Mathb33 said:
Anabolics are the worst idea an obese person could think of. It’ll make your situation about twice worse than it’s already is. Also, in a fitness athlete or name it like you want.. the easiest part is usually the lose fat and get leaner. There’s no anabolics that really help or is needed for that. Gaining lean tissue (muscle) is the harder part. You saying you obviously tried that and HAVE to resort to steroids kind of tell everyone you have no idea what it is to suffer, be hungry and lose weight. Steroids will absolutely do nothing for you to lose weight.
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Wheres your hairline bro, jus go bald already
 
mikem456 said:
Your stupid generality pissed me off, just keep unuseful comments to yourself and let someone more knowledgeable answer and diagnosis a specific case
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It’s obviously not what you wanted to hear, but anybody decently knowledgeable here or anywhere will tell you the same. This is basic stuff. Get to a decent body fat and then use gear. At your current BF you will aromatize heavily, put more stress on your organs and cardiovascular system. And the fact that steroids absolutely DO NOT burn fat is also pretty basic stuff. You will achieve absolutely nothing by doing steroids at 31% BF.
 
I’ll add this if we want to get a bit technical because in the end I’m sure it might help you : just to further prove my point that it’s an horrible idea... if you wanted to reach a doctor to see if you were fit for TRT... he’d tell you to lose weight and that your current situation makes it hard to really get an accurate reading on your levels because most obese male lose up to 30% of their potential testosterone. Male obesity is linked with increased aromatase activity within adipocytes ((((a cell specialized for the storage of fat))) causing conversion of testosterone into estradiol which increase estradiol levels. In turn, estradiol exerts a negative feedback effect on LH secretion, reducing the plasma concentrations of testosterone. Lose fat, get healthy, get bloodwork and analyse your current health, do steroids. Doing steroids now will only further aggravate what’s mentionned above. Which will obviously worsen your probably already poor blood pressure and other important markers.
 
Try Letro since your HPTA is still working and needs help processing the extra estrogens.

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bad rad said:
Try Letro since your HPTA is still working and needs help processing the extra estrogens.

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Great find. I initially thought, “No, not letro - that will screw his bloodwork up and put him on his ass!” But after taking a minute to read & consider closer, I hadn’t accounted for how positive the changes would likely be from transitioning from low test to healthier levels, which would offset any negatives from the letrozole.

And there’s always exemestane to try in lieu of letro if being overly cautious. But Letro is even dirt cheap.

But either way, getting estro down and test up kinda removes any hormonal caveats from the weightloss equation. THEN the OP will know exactly how effective his dieting is or isn’t and nothing hormonally perceived will be holding him back from his fitness goals.
 
Here are my 2 cents and what has worked for me. Personally, i wouldnt go with the hard stuff right away at least. I would recommend Competitive Edge Labs stack

12 to 16 Weeks:
  • Anabolic Effect - 3 capsules twice per day - for the full 12 to 16 weeks (4 bottles)
  • M-Test - 3 capsules twice per day - for the 12 to 16 weeks (4 bottles)
  • Stano-Plex 300 - 1 capsule twice per day for the first 6 to 8 weeks (2 bottles)

In addition to this, get MyFitnessPal app and track your calories and macros with a 500 calorie deficit, high protein, low fat, middle of the road carbs for recovery.

Lift as heavy as possible without requiring more than one day for recovery of a specific muscle group

Do at least 20 mins of steady state or interval cardio 4-5 days a week most importantly after lifting

If you respond well to this, then you are ready / prepared for other chemicals. Diet and exercise are #1, supplements will "supplement" diet and exercise not replace it.

What exactly are your goals? DMZ and msten will make you gain weight.
 
Hyde said:
Great find. I initially thought, “No, not letro - that will screw his bloodwork up and put him on his ass!” But after taking a minute to read & consider closer, I hadn’t accounted for how positive the changes would likely be from transitioning from low test to healthier levels, which would offset any negatives from the letrozole.

And there’s always exemestane to try in lieu of letro if being overly cautious. But Letro is even dirt cheap.

But either way, getting estro down and test up kinda removes any hormonal caveats from the weightloss equation. THEN the OP will know exactly how effective his dieting is or isn’t and nothing hormonally perceived will be holding him back from his fitness goals.
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Realistically all AI should function in the same capacity. The biggest difference is weekly dosage and timing. Letro only reqired once a week dosing for most of the participants so it's an easy protocol to maintain. 1/4 tab of Anastrozole or Exemestane ED or EOD would likely be sufficient.
 
Last edited:
mikem456 said:
Overweight 31 year old here, lifting since 15, and never responded well to exercise.
labs show healthy thyroid, high cortisol/acth, high estrogen, low testosterone. My sleep quality declines for 2-3 days after workouts (stressed feelin

going to take some type
Of steroid, not
Sure which. I have access to nolva or clomid for
Pct. Question is should i go
With trt, sarms, or msten/dmz? I have a bottle
On hand of msten/dmz, 20mg dmz/10mg msten per capsule.
6’3” 290lbs

also should i
Go with nolva or
Clomid?

thank you
Click to expand...
Can you let us know what you eat in a typical day, and your average daily caloric intake?
 
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