SARM's, MK, & GW : A User's Guide

With all this natural talk I'm interested in everyone's thought on armistane for natural guys.

We know estrogen is not something to **** with unless you need to( especially for drug free guys) but the research on armistane seems to say that it's beneficial. Whut?

I also know using ais without blood work is a disaster.

I'm just curious.
 
pyrobatt said:
With all this natural talk I'm interested in everyone's thought on armistane for natural guys.

We know estrogen is not something to **** with unless you need to( especially for drug free guys) but the research on armistane seems to say that it's beneficial. Whut?

I also know using ais without blood work is a disaster.

I'm just curious.
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Wat dose armistane would "you" consider useful?
 
bighulksmash said:
Wat dose armistane would "you" consider useful?
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For pct or bridge using a SARM I would suggest 50 to 75mg depending on how you react to it. I will also say there are better options.

Arimistane kills my libido and hurts my joints. I honestly don't know where it went though. Now some research chemical sites are selling it. Haven't used it in 3 years.

I'm still not suggesting it for drug free lifters because estrogen is too of an important equation ,at least in my head for drug free lifters.

Dim,ect are fine though.
 
pyrobatt said:
For pct or bridge using a SARM I would suggest 50 to 75mg depending on how you react to it. I will also say there are better options.

Arimistane kills my libido and hurts my joints. I honestly don't know where it went though. Now some research chemical sites are selling it. Haven't used it in 3 years.

I'm still not suggesting it for drug free lifters because estrogen is too of an important equation ,at least in my head for drug free lifters.

Dim,ect are fine though.
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Chrysin and dim equal great pair imo.
 
pyrobatt said:
With all this natural talk I'm interested in everyone's thought on armistane for natural guys.

We know estrogen is not something to **** with unless you need to( especially for drug free guys) but the research on armistane seems to say that it's beneficial. Whut?

I also know using ais without blood work is a disaster.

I'm just curious.
Click to expand...

I have used arimistane in the past on more than one occasion. It did dry me out and my joints hurt me a lot. Especially my elbows. When I did use it, it was always after a hdrol cycle in pct and I started it on the third week and extended it past my serm for about two weeks more. Despite the bad joints I recovered back to starting test levels(blood work done) and would therefore keep it in my pct protocol.

As for running it solo, I never had and could not tell you about any affects. Some board members state that it helps with cortisol control.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
I did some research on C-D-G a while ago after I saw it in some Anti-E products. The problem is that Testosterone (and all steroid hormones in the body) is/are also glucuronidated. That means T will follow E right out of the body.
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I did not know that, thanks for posting.
I would question how much test will leave though, and would that be a primary consideration while on an aas cycle?

if you're pumping in far more test/anabolic hormones than can be removed then will it simply take the glucuronidated compounds, such as estrogen metabolites, and leave the rest as they are being processed in the liver? It may actually be a useful addition in that respect, at keeping liver function optimal.

I'm thinking big bucket getting regularly topped up, small hole, if you catch my drift.

DIM, still very handy.
 
jmyers said:
Love the info here
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This thread has definitely shared some great info. I know I have learned a lot since this threads inception.
 
cheeky1 said:
I did not know that, thanks for posting.

I'm thinking big bucket getting regularly topped up, small hole, if you catch my drift.
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Yeah, that makes sense. AAS users can get away with a lot. But then...why not just use a-sin or a-dex - you're already on chemicals :) I just wanted to put that out there. I just got it off Examine, so head over there and read the whole thing.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Yeah, that makes sense. AAS users can get away with a lot. But then...why not just use a-sin or a-dex - you're already on chemicals :) I just wanted to put that out there. I just got it off Examine, so head over there and read the whole thing.
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Legality, accessibility, availability, personal preference, mitigating factors such as known adverse effects & potential sides. Bit of a false argument to say if you're using chems why not chase them with more, in my opinion, with respect.

It's estimated that 70% of all prescription meds are doled out as a counter to another prescription. More meds - more sides...more sides - more meds.
 
cheeky1 said:
Legality, accessibility, availability, personal preference, mitigating factors such as known adverse effects & potential sides. Bit of a false argument to say if you're using chems why not chase them with more, in my opinion, with respect.

It's estimated that 70% of all prescription meds are doled out as a counter to another prescription. More meds - more sides...more sides - more meds.
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Valid point, cheers! And I agree on the last part, waaaaaaay to much drug pushing in the medical community IMO.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Valid point, cheers! And I agree on the last part, waaaaaaay to much drug pushing in the medical community IMO.
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Yep, most drugs are prescribed to make customers. It is a business, just like every other business in the world.
 
yates84 (or anyone else)

Curiosity question:

How did SARMS (and the stuff that really isn't a SARM but is called/marketed as such) become available on the worldwide market - to be able to be sold as liquid and in caps? These compounds were developed by various companies and some are still in trials. There is definitely an intellectual property wanting to be protected angle here, I would think. How did all this stuff "Get Out"? Seems to be a lot of money on the line if some of these get approved by the FDA. Is it common for stuff that say, Pfizer is developing, to leak out? Is it a case that some "bro" that worked at a lab somewhere, pocketed a sample? LOL. Just always found it curious and I have no knowledge in this area.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
yates84 (or anyone else)

Curiosity question:

How did SARMS (and the stuff that really isn't a SARM but is called/marketed as such) become available on the worldwide market - to be able to be sold as liquid and in caps? These compounds were developed by various companies and some are still in trials. There is definitely an intellectual property wanting to be protected angle here, I would think. How did all this stuff "Get Out"? Seems to be a lot of money on the line if some of these get approved by the FDA. Is it common for stuff that say, Pfizer is developing, to leak out? Is it a case that some "bro" that worked at a lab somewhere, pocketed a sample? LOL. Just always found it curious and I have no knowledge in this area.
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All the studies and compound information were published. Studies were read and it was determined that the compounds would be of use to bodybuilding. They then had a lab (most likely china) to synthesize the compound and make it for sale. It started as research chemicals for years and I guess some supplement comanies decided to produce them as well in the thought of risk < reward. This is my understanding of the situation, anyway.
 
Hukebine said:
How often can you use sarms? I just finished my endurashred cycle and I can't wait to go back on it!
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The usual rule is time on + pct = time off. You need to recover and be at homeostasis for a decent amount of time before stressing your hpta again.
 
yates84 said:
The usual rule is time on + pct = time off. You need to recover and be at homeostasis for a decent amount of time before stressing your hpta again.
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Does this include bridge cycles?? Let's say my cycle of LGD lasted 6 weeks then my cycle of The1 lasts another 6 + PCT @6 weeks.
Should my total time off be 18 months??
 
Shaner091 said:
Does this include bridge cycles?? Let's say my cycle of LGD lasted 6 weeks then my cycle of The1 lasts another 6 + PCT @6 weeks.
Should my total time off be 18 months??
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Just 18 weeks, not months ;)
 
Shaner091 said:
Haha thanks for catching that :-P hmmm,, 18 weeks to plan my next cycle?? Not nearly enough time &#55357;&#56834;&#55357;&#56834;
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Exactly. My next cycle is creeping up and I need to make some decisions! I only have a few more ph cycles left in me so I need to make the best of them.
 
That must be somewhat heartbreaking to think you've only a few left in you :( least yiur being smart about it!! Practicing what you preach :) have no idea what to go with yet?? But LGD is for sale on nutriverse for €30 delivered,, may have to incorporate a bottle or 2 of that into whatever I'm running :-P
 
Shaner091 said:
That must be somewhat heartbreaking to think you've only a few left in you :( least yiur being smart about it!! Practicing what you preach :) have no idea what to go with yet?? But LGD is for sale on nutriverse for €30 delivered,, may have to incorporate a bottle or 2 of that into whatever I'm running :-P
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I'm not retiring, just moving on to bigger and better things. The dark side is calling me...
 
YatesWifey04 said:
yates84 likes when I talk like that too. Heck, he just likes when we talk supps period. ;)

My current cycle set-up is....
RAD 4/4/8/8/8/8
Osta 5/5 /5/5/10/10/10/10

I'm in the end of week 5 & have seen some nice improvements in strength & body comp. I hit a new PR almost every power day. I love it.
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What's your thoughts on Rad for the ladies? I know the recommendation for women of child bearing potential is to avoid SARMs, particularly LGD, is it safe to assume you would say the same for Rad? A friend of mine is keen, having run osta & LGD, she doubts kids are in the pipeline but I advise her to play it as safe in the meantime, you just never know.

This question is open to anyone, thanks.
 
yates84 said:
I'm not retiring, just moving on to bigger and better things. The dark side is calling me...
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You mean YatesWifey04 with her new avatar? :bigeyes:
 
cheeky1 said:
What's your thoughts on Rad for the ladies? I know the recommendation for women of child bearing potential is to avoid SARMs, particularly LGD, is it safe to assume you would say the same for Rad? A friend of mine is keen, having run osta & LGD, she doubts kids are in the pipeline but I advise her to play it as safe in the meantime, you just never know.

This question is open to anyone, thanks.
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Only ostarine has been shown to POSSIBLY cause infertility issues but I would still be cautious seeing as these compounds are still very new. That being said, my wife has really enjoyed her cycle. She has obviously been feeling great these past 5 weeks (with an insane libido :)) and she hits a new pr every time she walks into the gym. I'm sure she will answer any questions you might have so shoot her a message.
 
yates84 said:
Only ostarine has been shown to POSSIBLY cause infertility issues but I would still be cautious seeing as these compounds are still very new. That being said, my wife has really enjoyed her cycle. She has obviously been feeling great these past 5 weeks (with an insane libido :)) and she hits a new pr every time she walks into the gym. I'm sure she will answer any questions you might have so shoot her a message.
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Cool, this gal is a pocket rocket, trains hard & likes her supps, so I need to pull on the reins just a little every now & again. I'll see what (if) your wife responds with, rather than PM her so everyone can get a little update on the gals side of things. Be nice to hear from any other ladies regarding their experiences with SARMs too.
 
cheeky1 said:
Cool, this gal is a pocket rocket, trains hard & likes her supps, so I need to pull on the reins just a little every now & again. I'll see what (if) your wife responds with, rather than PM her so everyone can get a little update on the gals side of things. Be nice to hear from any other ladies regarding their experiences with SARMs too.
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YatesWifey04 let's hear your thoughts about rad/osta if you don't mind.
 
yates84 said:
I'm not retiring, just moving on to bigger and better things. The dark side is calling me...
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That's far less heartbreaking :-P I been thinkin of continuing to bulk through Xmas - which will give me a total of 12-14 weeks at it,, cut for a couple weeks after that - maybe run cardarine and some other natty supps & burners - get super lean and then set up a big ass gainer cycle and get biiiig ???
 
Shaner091 said:
That's far less heartbreaking :-P I been thinkin of continuing to bulk through Xmas - which will give me a total of 12-14 weeks at it,, cut for a couple weeks after that - maybe run cardarine and some other natty supps & burners - get super lean and then set up a big ass gainer cycle and get biiiig &#55357;&#56490;&#55357;&#56490;&#55357;&#56490;
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Sounds like plan! Just remember, more time on means more time off.
 
yates84 said:
YatesWifey04 let's hear your thoughts about rad/osta if you don't mind.
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You know it's early for me!! :) I'm still working on caffeinating!!

cheeky1 said:
What's your thoughts on Rad for the ladies? I know the recommendation for women of child bearing potential is to avoid SARMs, particularly LGD, is it safe to assume you would say the same for Rad? A friend of mine is keen, having run osta & LGD, she doubts kids are in the pipeline but I advise her to play it as safe in the meantime, you just never know.

This question is open to anyone, thanks.
Click to expand...

So, like yates84 said, Ostarine is the primary one suggested to avoid for women of child baring age. It is a derivative of Bicalutamid, and could possibly cause fertility issues. This was not a concern of mine because we are done having children. To be honest, there isn't enough real world info on a lot of the newer compounds, like RAD, to say if that could be a possibility or not. So, I always suggest to air on the side of caution, and really weigh the risk vs benefit.

I have loved my cycle thus far. Today is the start of week 6, and things are still going great. The only thing I've noticed is, in the last week, is my appetite has dropped considerably. In the beginning the RAD had me straight up ravenous. The nutrient partitioning with it is crazy. I've mentioned it before, but I could straight carb load for a couple days, wake up looking leaner, and scales would be sitting right where they had been (literally to the tenth of the pound). I'm not sure if I'm just out of that sweet spot with it (past 4 weeks) or if it is due to increased reflux (the only negative side effect I can report from this cycle so far). My strength has gone up considerably, and body comp has been improving as well. I went into this cycle aiming to bulk, but I've actually been recomping more than anything. Now, I can't wait to cut & really see all the muscle I've put on. Recovery & healing properties of the Osta have really allowed me to push & improve a few lifts too. I had a nagging injury to my right wrist that has not bothered me at all in about 3.5 weeks. I'm pretty sore today (after a heavy power day yesterday), but nothing crazy like I've experienced in the past (...I can walk today). My libido has been crazy high. I'm going after hubby all the time. I think this is one of the rare times my libido is actually higher than his!! :D yates84 & I have a training log where I've posted progress pics & will be posting new ones today. Feel free to check it out!

So, my overall thoughts are...I've found this cycle to be very rewarding & has delivered what I was looking for. I would recommend this set up to other females WITH the caution that they please do their own research, and really assess risk vs benefit in all areas but especially in terms of fertility issues being a POSSIBILITY in the future.
 
YatesWifey04 said:
You know it's early for me!! :) I'm still working on caffeinating!!



So, like yates84 said, Ostarine is the primary one suggested to avoid for women of child baring age. It is a derivative of Bicalutamid, and could possibly cause fertility issues. This was not a concern of mine because we are done having children. To be honest, there isn't enough real world info on a lot of the newer compounds, like RAD, to say if that could be a possibility or not. So, I always suggest to air on the side of caution, and really weigh the risk vs benefit.

I have loved my cycle thus far. Today is the start of week 6, and things are still going great. The only thing I've noticed is, in the last week, is my appetite has dropped considerably. In the beginning the RAD had me straight up ravenous. The nutrient partitioning with it is crazy. I've mentioned it before, but I could straight carb load for a couple days, wake up looking leaner, and scales would be sitting right where they had been (literally to the tenth of the pound). I'm not sure if I'm just out of that sweet spot with it (past 4 weeks) or if it is due to increased reflux (the only negative side effect I can report from this cycle so far). My strength has gone up considerably, and body comp has been improving as well. I went into this cycle aiming to bulk, but I've actually been recomping more than anything. Now, I can't wait to cut & really see all the muscle I've put on. Recovery & healing properties of tge Osta have really allowed me to push & improve a few lifts too. I had a nagging injury to my right wrist that has not bothered me at all in about 3.5 weeks. I'm pretty sore today (after a heavy power say yesterday), but nothing crazy (like I've experienced in the past...I can walk today). My libido has been crazy high. I'm going after hubby all the time. I think this is one of rare times my libido is actually higher than his!! :D yates84 & I have a training log where I've posted progress pics & will be posting new ones today. Feel free to check it out!

So, my overall thoughts are...I've found this cycle to be very rewarding & has delivered what I was looking for. I would recommend this set up to other females WITH the caution that they please do their own research, and really assess risk vs benefit in all areas but especially in terms of fertility issues be a POSSIBILITY in the future.
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Damn.....pretty good response for not being caffeinated, babe.
 
YatesWifey04 said:
You know it's early for me!! :) I'm still working on caffeinating!!



So, like yates84 said, Ostarine is the primary one suggested to avoid for women of child baring age. It is a derivative of Bicalutamid, and could possibly cause fertility issues. This was not a concern of mine because we are done having children. To be honest, there isn't enough real world info on a lot of the newer compounds, like RAD, to say if that could be a possibility or not. So, I always suggest to air on the side of caution, and really weigh the risk vs benefit.

I have loved my cycle thus far. Today is the start of week 6, and things are still going great. The only thing I've noticed is, in the last week, is my appetite has dropped considerably. In the beginning the RAD had me straight up ravenous. The nutrient partitioning with it is crazy. I've mentioned it before, but I could straight carb load for a couple days, wake up looking leaner, and scales would be sitting right where they had been (literally to the tenth of the pound). I'm not sure if I'm just out of that sweet spot with it (past 4 weeks) or if it is due to increased reflux (the only negative side effect I can report from this cycle so far). My strength has gone up considerably, and body comp has been improving as well. I went into this cycle aiming to bulk, but I've actually been recomping more than anything. Now, I can't wait to cut & really see all the muscle I've put on. Recovery & healing properties of the Osta have really allowed me to push & improve a few lifts too. I had a nagging injury to my right wrist that has not bothered me at all in about 3.5 weeks. I'm pretty sore today (after a heavy power day yesterday), but nothing crazy like I've experienced in the past (...I can walk today). My libido has been crazy high. I'm going after hubby all the time. I think this is one of the rare times my libido is actually higher than his!! :D yates84 & I have a training log where I've posted progress pics & will be posting new ones today. Feel free to check it out!

So, my overall thoughts are...I've found this cycle to be very rewarding & has delivered what I was looking for. I would recommend this set up to other females WITH the caution that they please do their own research, and really assess risk vs benefit in all areas but especially in terms of fertility issues being a POSSIBILITY in the future.
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I'm glad this cycle is going great for you! Have you had reflux or stomach issued generally in the past? I only ask because I believe RAD gave me some symptoms of crohns back including loss of appetite.
 
CJNator said:
I'm glad this cycle is going great for you! Have you had reflux or stomach issued generally in the past? I only ask because I believe RAD gave me some symptoms of crohns back including loss of appetite.
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I had awful reflux prepregnancy & during pregnancy. Post pregnancy it improved as I improved my diet. It comes & goes now & certain foods are still big triggers. However, I have noticed it has picked back up since being on cycle. yates84 has the same issue when he's on cycle too. He hasn't run RAD. So, I can't say it's from one more than the other though. I definitely had no problem with my appetite during the first 4 weeks. It has just really slowed down now, which could just be from being out of the 4 week peak of the RAD.
 
YatesWifey04 said:
I had awful reflux prepregnancy & during pregnancy. Post pregnancy it improved as I improved my diet. It comes & goes now & certain foods are still big triggers. However, I have noticed it has picked back up since being on cycle. yates84 has the same issue when he's on cycle too. He hasn't run RAD. So, I can't say it's from one more than the other though. I definitely had no problem with my appetite during the first 4 weeks. It has just really slowed down now, which could just be from being out of the 4 week peak of the RAD.
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I guess we will find out when you drop the rad.
 
YatesWifey04 said:
I had awful reflux prepregnancy & during pregnancy. Post pregnancy it improved as I improved my diet. It comes & goes now & certain foods are still big triggers. However, I have noticed it has picked back up since being on cycle. yates84 has the same issue when he's on cycle too. He hasn't run RAD. So, I can't say it's from one more than the other though. I definitely had no problem with my appetite during the first 4 weeks. It has just really slowed down now, which could just be from being out of the 4 week peak of the RAD.
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Ok, she's going to be keen on Rad & maybe Cardarine. She has some niggly injuries to be mindful of so if they're still present post lgd I might steer her towards some MK-677 once we re-establish a baseline hormone wise. I am very much of the "try one compound at a time" persuasion, so we'll nut that one out together.

Good to hear the bedroom calisthenics is a positive :smlove2: :sgrin:
 
YatesWifey04 said:
I had awful reflux prepregnancy & during pregnancy. Post pregnancy it improved as I improved my diet. It comes & goes now & certain foods are still big triggers. However, I have noticed it has picked back up since being on cycle. yates84 has the same issue when he's on cycle too. He hasn't run RAD. So, I can't say it's from one more than the other though. I definitely had no problem with my appetite during the first 4 weeks. It has just really slowed down now, which could just be from being out of the 4 week peak of the RAD.
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Ok, I hope you get better once your done with RAD. Glad the cycle is giving you minimum sides and maximizing gainz!
 
I'm 30 days into my MassGH run which I plan on running 8 weeks, bumping up to 12 MG for the last two. Things are going great, except for a slight to noticeable decrease in libido. I have not been running a test base but I am considering introducing Tr3st for the last 3 weeks. Will this be worth it as far as benefits? Is it a stupid idea to consider extending the Tr3st beyond the LGD (while continuing MK-677) before starting pct?

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That's up 9 lbs in 30 days.
 
yates84 said:
Sounds like plan! Just remember, more time on means more time off.
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The big dilemma!!! ? will 100% be hitting you up for advice on something awesome come next year ;)
 
HardB0iled said:
I'm 30 days into my MassGH run which I plan on running 8 weeks, bumping up to 12 MG for the last two. Things are going great, except for a slight to noticeable decrease in libido. I have not been running a test base but I am considering introducing Tr3st for the last 3 weeks. Will this be worth it as far as benefits? Is it a stupid idea to consider extending the Tr3st beyond the LGD (while continuing MK-677) before starting pct?

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That's up 9 lbs in 30 days.
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That sounds fine man!
 
HardB0iled said:
Awesome. How long do you recommend running tr3st before starting pct? I'll have 3 weeks while still on LGD... How long past end of cycle?
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6 to 8 weeks at 75 to 100mg would be ideal
 
yates84 said:
6 to 8 weeks at 75 to 100mg would be ideal
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So that lets me stretch my cycle to 11 weeks (minimum) before starting pct?

Weeks 1-5 MassGH
Weeks 6-8 MassGH and Tr3st
Weeks 9-11 Tr3st and Ghar1ne
Weeks 12-15 Clomid, Super PCT, and Ghar1ne (May throw in EU and/or x-gels)

(I have Aramidex on hand and am also taking cycle support, etc., etc.)
 
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