Rebirth by BLR! FIRST NATURAL SERM??

Seriously..? With a product like Rebirth or any SERM, you have to run it in conjunction with an AI or a test booster. It's not a stand alone product..!.

No one runs just a SERM during PCT. You'd be foolish to think that that would work by itself.

If you have a standard PCT protocol that you use substitute rebirth in for your SERM, then you'll know how effective it really is..!

To compare Rebirth by itself to a standard PCT protocol of a SERM, AI and test booster would be ridiculous to expect that it world produce the same result of three products..!!!!

When people try to do experiments in a lab, they change one variable at a time to see how each change effects the results. If you change everything and expect to get the same results you're living in a fantasy world
 
kisaj said:
Some people like to find negative in even the best situations.
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Thats what you do to find out if a new product works or not. You assess all the info, good and bad. This is necessary and a very good thing, so no need to steer people into posting only the positives. We need to hear from the skepticks, as well as the nut huggers. Since we dont have any scientific studies on rebirth, we need all the info(good & bad) that can be gathered.
 
vujade said:
Seriously..? With a product like Rebirth or any SERM, you have to run it in conjunction with an AI or a test booster. It's not a stand alone product..!.

No one runs just a SERM during PCT. You'd be foolish to think that that would work by itself.

If you have a standard PCT protocol that you use substitute rebirth in for your SERM, then you'll know how effective it really is..!

To compare Rebirth by itself to a standard PCT protocol of a SERM, AI and test booster would be ridiculous to expect that it world produce the same result of three products..!!!!

When people try to do experiments in a lab, they change one variable at a time to see how each change effects the results. If you change everything and expect to get the same results you're living in a fantasy world
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With a known serm like clomid, there is no need for a test booster, and you really only need an ai towards the end of pct and beyond, in order to lower the estrogen that the serm has been blocking..but still not totally necessary. You talk about changing one variable at a time, but advocate running multiple things at once. If you want to talk scientific studies, then it should be said that this is not how one would be conducted. You cannot accurately judge the effectiveness of rebirth, while taking a test booster and an ai. Sorry, but that is not how it works.
 
anabolix said:
Not if i was trying to assess the effectiveness of a single ingredient. If people keep doing this, we will never know how effective rebirth is. People have recovered during pct using an ai solo. So using multiple items during pct will make it next to impossible to judge the effects of rebirth..which is in fact, exactly what everyone is trying to assess.
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That is not how comparisons work. If you are comparing a traditional SERM vs Rebirth you need to compare it in the same environment. Most people (who would use this) are only familiar with their SERM plus ancillaries so compare it with Rebirth plus ancillaries. Otherwise you are creating new variables by changing the standard and are just moving the goalpost.
 
Smont said:
If you normally run clomid with a test booster and ai whats the difference running rebirth the same way and assessing the difference?
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Because there are far too many variables to account for. For instance, you could run clomid+ai+test booster after all your cycles, yet have different results and numbers each time.
 
Smont said:
If you normally run clomid with a test booster and ai whats the difference running rebirth the same way and assessing the difference?
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Because there are far too many variables to account for. For instance, you could run clomid+ai+test booster after all your cycles, yet have different results and numbers each time.
 
Etomic said:
That is not how comparisons work. If you are comparing a traditional SERM vs Rebirth you need to compare it in the same environment. Most people (who would use this) are only familiar with their SERM plus ancillaries so compare it with Rebirth plus ancillaries. Otherwise you are creating new variables by changing the standard and are just moving the goalpost.
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Once again, using rebirth WITH an ai and test booster, will not tell you how effective rebirth is. Whos to say that you couldn't recover with a test booster and viron alone? I mean, people frequently used to recover from pct using no serms, test boosters or ai's. So just how much is rebirth doing? Well, using all kinds of other stuff in conjunction with rebirth skews the answer. I sure dont have enough evidence to answer that question. Do you, and if so, how?
 
anabolix said:
Once again, using rebirth WITH an ai and test booster, will not tell you how effective rebirth is. Whos to say that you couldn't recover with a test booster and viron alone? I mean, people frequently used to recover from pct using no serms, test boosters or ai's. So just how much is rebirth doing? Well, using all kinds of other stuff in conjunction with rebirth skews the answer. I sure dont have enough evidence to answer that question. Do you, and if so, how?
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I totally understand your pov my man, but I can't get on board with that. I wouldn't feel it adequate to run only Clomid or Nolva with the cycle I'm planning so I don't plan to run Rebirth solo. If I were running a standard length 1/4 andro cycle I'd do it in a minute. However I'm running ten weeks of orals. 4 weeks of 1 andro bridged into 6 weeks of a methyl stacked with tren. I don't think most on this board would run only a SERM. My last cycle was Msten x 4 weeks. For PCT I used Nolva/DAA/Super PCT. If anything I would consider running the same again which would be closer variable-wise but still not the same as the extra length and different variation of compounds in the cycle will no doubt lead to a totally different level of shutdown. What I do think will be apparent is if I can recover with Rebirth. I recovered previously to 792 with Nolva + other stuff. This cycle is more complicated but the PCT is just as simple. I know where I'm at before. Bloods along the way will tell the story of whether or not Rebirth can recover one from shutdown. I will be logging and posting my bloods so follow along see what happens.
 
A SERM is all you need to raise Testosterone in PCT. Fit1962 has bloods showing almost 1300 on Clomid.

A "Test Booster" is useless to add to that ^ - not unless your libido is still shot at 1300 and you need the libido only effects of Maca, Long Jack, etc...

In PCT, the body wants homeostasis. It is perfectly fine to run only a SERM. Any out of bounds E won't affect the breast tissue because of the SERM and it will eventually even out. StanleyG was just talking about this - AI on cycle, SERM only in PCT. My .02
 
The_Old_Guy said:
A SERM is all you need to raise Testosterone in PCT. Fit1962 has bloods showing almost 1300 on Clomid.

A "Test Booster" is useless to add to that ^ - not unless your libido is still shot at 1300 and you need the libido only effects of Maca, Long Jack, etc...

In PCT, the body wants homeostasis. It is perfectly fine to run only a SERM. Any out of bounds E won't affect the breast tissue because of the SERM and it will eventually even out. StanleyG was just talking about this - AI on cycle, SERM only in PCT. My .02
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What about using an AI to prevent estrogen rebound when tapering off the SERM..?
 
Did you see this: anabolicminds.com/forum/post-cycle-therapy/268917-pct-dosing.html and anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/269131-does-anybody-not.html

I'm just regurgitating - I'm not qualified to state definitively, but I am probably going to go SERM only my next run (with Exemestane on hand).
 
vujade said:
What about using an AI to prevent estrogen rebound when tapering off the SERM..?
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If you believe what StanleyG wrote, that's backwards thinking. He said excess estrogen will clear out naturally quick enough that no gyno can possibly be formed.


StanleyG said:
This, works every time for me. People have to realize the body is working on its own via the cyp 450 family of enzymes to metabolize any excess estrogen that would be present. This happens relatively quickly. Far more quickly that gyno could every form.
Thats another thing. People have to understand what gyno is. It isnt swollen breast tissue or sensitive breast tissue is is the formation and presence or a fiberous mass in breast tissue. Quite often what people refer to as "gyno" is in fact not gyno at all. There are certain times in your cycle, primarily in the beginning and at the end , where hormonal fluctuations are taking place and the aforementioned conditions will occur and people jump to the erroneous conclusion that it is gyno and start throwing compounds at it unnecessarily. Thats a big mistake. Then you are chasing your tail.
Following what you have outlined has worked for years. I do not feel there is a place for an ai at all in pct. The estrogen agonist and antagonist activity serms provide are optimal for restoring hpta function and the body on its own, will metabolize any excess estrogen long before gyno could form. It doesnt occur overnight. Gyno takes time to actually form.
Excellent post Blergs!
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StanleyG said:
There is no way gyno can form in the time from your end of pct and the time in which the body disposes of any excess e2. All you are doing by adding in an ai and running it post pct is delaying the body achieving homeostasis as quickly as it would without this addition and delaying getting back to your true, off cycle levels of hormones.
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dcne02 said:
How would this stack with something like Purus Recycle?
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Recycle is not much different then any other Cycle Assist type supplement. And should
help repair some of the damage after your Cycle. As far as having any synergy with Rebirth,
there really won't be any.

Rebirth is meant to be stacked with a Test Booster like Viron & your AI of choice. We have 2
new AI's coming out in a week or so.
 
Gonna give rebirth a shot stacked with ol super pct. Running dermacrine right now and about to pick up one of the remaining legal cutting ph to stack with it the last 4 weeks ( any suggestions) anyway how long after pct should i get bloods done. Im literally only running this mild cycle to give rebirth a shot and if goes well il try it with something stronger
 
Smont said:
Gonna give rebirth a shot stacked with ol super pct. Running dermacrine right now and about to pick up one of the remaining legal cutting ph to stack with it the last 4 weeks ( any suggestions) anyway how long after pct should i get bloods done. Im literally only running this mild cycle to give rebirth a shot and if goes well il try it with something stronger
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Sounds good. Let us know how it goes.
 
Smont said:
Gonna give rebirth a shot stacked with ol super pct. Running dermacrine right now and about to pick up one of the remaining legal cutting ph to stack with it the last 4 weeks ( any suggestions) anyway how long after pct should i get bloods done. Im literally only running this mild cycle to give rebirth a shot and if goes well il try it with something stronger
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If you like Super PCT I would keep your eyes peeled for new releases from OL :147:
 
Im a big fan of olympus labs ph line, now that its gone i still keep super pct and armicare around, i run a half dose of armicare all the time just for the hell of it. Whats 147?
 
Wow this thread is about rebirth. I was asking what to add to suppress myself so i can use rebirth to recover. Whats the problem???
 
Smont said:
Wow this thread is about rebirth. I was asking what to add to suppress myself so i can use rebirth to recover. Whats the problem???
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Hahaha that list would be pretty long I imagine lol
 
In for more info and results. This would definetly reduce the sketchyness level of trusting research chems after heavy runs of stacked PHs

I think my source is good tho, one month after pct and test measured 955. If pct was a fail, wouldnt your test stay loooowww
 
anabolix said:
Once again, using rebirth WITH an ai and test booster, will not tell you how effective rebirth is. Whos to say that you couldn't recover with a test booster and viron alone? I mean, people frequently used to recover from pct using no serms, test boosters or ai's. So just how much is rebirth doing? Well, using all kinds of other stuff in conjunction with rebirth skews the answer. I sure dont have enough evidence to answer that question. Do you, and if so, how?
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If your saying using rebirth in-conjunction with an Ai, and test booster won't tell the effectiveness of rebirth then it goes with any other product in pct as well.

A proper pct consist of at least 3 things
1-Serm
2-Test booster
3-Ai

Cortisol (me personally I always like to add something for cortisol)
And something naturally anabolic

You can't just run a "serm" in pct. if you do good luck

Bloods tell obviously how u recovered and also the more experienced go by how they feel and how much was actually kept during pct. to many factors to consider.
 
Say you do try rebirth as a PCT....4 weeks later, no dice it didnt work to kick start your test levels. At that point can you still rerun a normal PCT and have a good chance of recovering normally?
 
If it will make everyone happy il run rebirth solo as pct.

Also still no answer to how long i should wait till i have bloodwork done.
 
Smont said:
If it will make everyone happy il run rebirth solo as pct.

Also still no answer to how long i should wait till i have bloodwork done.
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Pre PCT Bloodwork..? or Post PCT Bloodwork.?
 
reps4jesus said:
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If you run it solo
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We've been through this already on this thread. I will run my pct how I see fit. It's not sponsored. All the time and money will be my own. I wouldn't trust either Nolva or Clomid solo to recover to the level I want. I will be running multiple compounds(some of them new to me) for total 10 weeks. I'm not gonna skimp on PCT and risk wasting all my gains. I don't trust Nolva to be enough or Rebirth. I want a comprehensive PCT regimen. In the future I am considering a simple 1 andro cycle or Halo cycle w/ Nolva Only PCT. Then the next cycle the same thing w only Rebirth PCT. And then we can compare bloods from solo PCT. If anybody doesn't agree or like that then by all means feel free to sponsor my log and then maybe I could be convinced to change my plan. :) :)
 
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