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Randy Moss or Terell Owens

EEmain said:
Really 3 years that is what everyone says? And here I thought with Kirkland in the middle in 02 they were 9th in total yds rushing and gave up all of 5td`s(#1)....
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I guess you watch a different Eagles team and I think your bi-polar disorder is kicking in.

Wonder what happened after that year and their rushing defense. Oh thats right, it went down the tubes.

Last time I checked Pitt shredded them last year on the ground. Wonder why?

Hmm...I do remember Reid and Johnson commentong on earlier in the year that they need th shore up their run defense. That also resembles what they were saying last year (since they were ranked 22nd) as well but if YOU say they don't have a problem, I'm sure coach Reid and Johnson were just mistaken. I'm sure giving up 4.5yards per carry in 2003 isn't anything to worry about. What WAS I thinking?



:rolleyes:
 
What happened? The Simoneau experiment is what.. for 1.5 years he was the MLB and what happened...

Weren`t the Birds 25th untill JTrott came in and wound up 16... YPG went from 118 to 84 during that time
 
EEmain said:
What happened? The Simoneau experiment is what.. for 1.5 years he was the MLB and what happened...

Weren`t the Birds 25th untill JTrott came in and wound up 16... YPG went from 118 to 84 during that time
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Does it matter WHY they were bad? They were BAD! Simoneau was bad but it doesn't help when your front 4 can't stop anything as well AND they were injuried. So essentially you have your backups on a defense that rnaked 22nd in the rush playing in the playoffs!

The most demoralizing thing that can happen during the second half is if you tie it up then the other team comes back, eats up 4-5 minutes, runs it down your throat and scores. THat was a HUGE turning point of that game. They knew they could control the clock and when they got it back they did it again and went up by 10 while taking almost 7-8 minutes off the clock LATE in the game.
 
Bobo said:
Yeah I guess all that negates the fact they were 16th ranked in rushing against last year. Want to guess what they were the year before that? Oh thats right, 22nd in 2003.

Hmm...wonder what New England was. Oh trhats right, 6th.
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That is still Top 10 in 02, bottom 1/3 in 03 and middle 1/3 in 04... NOT lowest in the league for 3 years :rasp:
 
EEmain said:
That is still Top 10 in 02, bottom 1/3 in 03 and middle 1/3 in 04... NOT lowest in the league for 3 years :rasp:
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From the middle of 2002 up until the middle of last year they WERE. And their run defense SUCKED!

For you to even argue that point is ridiculous.
 
The Birds will not win the TOP.. How many games did they win and still lost the TOP...

They pass first run second.. and as such incompletes will stop the clock... but they also score quicker than a running team...

I agree a better run D, such as Gang Green was, would almost ensure multiple SB vics.. but Reid/JJ know this and that is part of why JJ loves is Dline rotation..
And they are now sure the MLB is very important to the D, unlike when they let Trotter walk...
 
Look at this ...

(4:52) D.McNabb pass to T.Owens to PHI 34 for 5 yards (T.Johnson).
(4:19) D.McNabb pass to J.Parry to PHI 36 for 2 yards (R.Phifer).

WTF was Reid thinking.. not calling in 2 plays wasted 33sec. This is just one example of WHY I think it was the NE coaches
undressing the Eagles that was the most important factor in the loss...

(3:28) D.McNabb up the middle to PHI 46 for no gain (T.Bruschi).
(2:55) D.McNabb pass to F.Mitchell to NE 43 for 11 yards (T.Bruschi).

That is the one that supports my previous statement about DMc taking a kidney shot not being tired...
 
Sir Foxx said:
You know Bobo, the same thing was said about John Elway(greatest QB ever, That's right the greatest QB EVER). Mcnabb is a fine QB. His legacy will speak for itself, greatness.
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Greates ever is JOE ;) I know people will counter with "the 49ers could have won 4 with Steve Young" but they don't understand how valuable he was. The year after he was considered done, the 49ers missed the Play-Offs in 1991 with Steve Young, Jerry Rice, Charles Haley, Bill Romanowski, Brent Jones and a lot of other solid veterans. Joe did have a very good and underrated defense but you gotta understand one thing and that is that "great players aren't always, they're just great when they have to be" don't know who coined the term but it's dead on. When things looked shitty against Cincinnati in Super Bowl XXIII and Dallas in the NFC Championship game JOE WAS GREAT because he needed to be. Elway did come up big too, but not as often as Montana. Another fact that should help Joe's legacy is when he went to KC, he nearly took them to Super Bowl WHEN HE WAS IN DECLINE. KC had didn't have Jerry Rice, Brent Jones, or John Taylor either. Their RB was an aging Marcus Allen and KC even beat Denver in that classic Monday Night game thanks to Monatana magic.

Another thing for some who confuse numbers with greatness. If you're a great QB on a great team than chances are you'll be winning comfortably many times which means your team won't throw a lot, which means your numbers won't be great. Some QB's like Jeff George have had great numbers at times but that was because he played on teams that fell behind so bad that other teams allowed him to get garbage yards. Better indicators are TD to INT ratio, yds per pass attempt, completion percentage, team record, and rating. I just know too many people (Raider fans) who think Collins is great because he threw for 300 yds 3 out of 5 games or whatever and I'm like he's a slightly above avg QB, but not the savior they think he is.
 
Uh...yeah...ok...


:think:
 
rugger48 said:
One more thing, the rumor(small) is that there might be trade talks, owens for walker
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I wouldn't trade TO for Walker. TO can be great for a few more years IF he fully recovers because his work ethic is pretty damm good
 
Iron Warrior said:
Greates ever is JOE ;) Better indicators are TD to INT ratio, yds per pass attempt, completion percentage, team record, and rating. I just know too many people (Raider fans) who think Collins is great because he threw for 300 yds 3 out of 5 games or whatever and I'm like he's a slightly above avg QB, but not the savior they think he is.
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Hmm...Mcnabb had 31TD's with 8 INT's and a 104.7 rating. Yeah, he's only "good".

:D

And I agree with everything else as well.
 
EEmain said:
Wasn`t a deep threat... the man had 9 catches of 40 yds or more .. does it matter if you run 40 and catch or 20 and run your f@#$%^ azz off for 20 more...
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:hammer: I don't know why I keep hearing people say he's a not a deep threat, not only is he not a deep threat but he's turned many quick screens and slants into TD's or huge gains.
 
Bobo said:
Wrong. He did that one year when he was injuried throughout the season. Those reports were from the San Fran media looking to criticize anything an everything because of his relationship with them. Other than that, he doens't drop many balls at all and the number show it. Look what he did last year.
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That was primarily Skip Bayless when he wrote for the San Jose Mercury News. He even referes to him as Terribly Ordinary on 1st & 10 :rolleyes:
 
Iron Warrior said:
That was primarily Skip Bayless when he wrote for the San Jose Mercury News. He even referes to him as Terribly Ordinary on 1st & 10 :rolleyes:
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I can't stand that guy.
 
Power Rankings:

32 (32) 49ers 2-14-0 Personally, we would've liked to see Mike Nolan in a coat and tie on the sideline.


Sorry, had to do it :D
 
Bobo said:
Power Rankings:

32 (32) 49ers 2-14-0 Personally, we would've liked to see Mike Nolan in a coat and tie on the sideline.


Sorry, had to do it :D
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At least they're first in something. Being first in last that is. :think:
 
I'm a diehard Niners fan and it might, uh, will be another tough year. I think they could actually surprise a few people and win some games. Crap, I forgot about their rookie QB.

We're hosed...

Here's to hoping...
 
not_big_enuf said:
I'm a diehard Niners fan and it might, uh, will be another tough year. I think they could actually surprise a few people and win some games. Crap, I forgot about their rookie QB.

We're hosed...

Here's to hoping...
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They play Arizona twice so there's two wins right there. :rofl:

I think they got at least 4 wins in em' this year. Erickson is a fag. I believe in Nolan. Dude, Smith is gonna get wasted this year if he starts. He'll end up braking David Carr's record for most sacks in a season if he doesn't get broken first. Let's hope not.
 
Sigh... I just wish they would have taken Edwards. But who knows. Maybe this dude will be a real QB.

I'm thinking they can squeeze out 6 wins this year believe it or not. I know, I know, that's giving them lots of credit, but coaching has to mean something. Erickson is a complete douche.
 
Iron Warrior said:
Greates ever is JOE ;) I know people will counter with "the 49ers could have won 4 with Steve Young" but they don't understand how valuable he was. The year after he was considered done, the 49ers missed the Play-Offs in 1991 with Steve Young, Jerry Rice, Charles Haley, Bill Romanowski, Brent Jones and a lot of other solid veterans. Joe did have a very good and underrated defense but you gotta understand one thing and that is that "great players aren't always, they're just great when they have to be" don't know who coined the term but it's dead on. When things looked shitty against Cincinnati in Super Bowl XXIII and Dallas in the NFC Championship game JOE WAS GREAT because he needed to be. Elway did come up big too, but not as often as Montana. Another fact that should help Joe's legacy is when he went to KC, he nearly took them to Super Bowl WHEN HE WAS IN DECLINE. KC had didn't have Jerry Rice, Brent Jones, or John Taylor either. Their RB was an aging Marcus Allen and KC even beat Denver in that classic Monday Night game thanks to Monatana magic.

Another thing for some who confuse numbers with greatness. If you're a great QB on a great team than chances are you'll be winning comfortably many times which means your team won't throw a lot, which means your numbers won't be great. Some QB's like Jeff George have had great numbers at times but that was because he played on teams that fell behind so bad that other teams allowed him to get garbage yards. Better indicators are TD to INT ratio, yds per pass attempt, completion percentage, team record, and rating. I just know too many people (Raider fans) who think Collins is great because he threw for 300 yds 3 out of 5 games or whatever and I'm like he's a slightly above avg QB, but not the savior they think he is.
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I've said this before, and I will say this again. If Joe Montana would have been on the Broncos in the 80's he would have been retired in 5 years and no one would have ever known about him. If John Elway had been on the 49ers in the 80's, with that talent, they would have won 7 to 8 SuperBowls and he would own every record in the book. Elway is the most sacked QB in the history of the game by far, no way could Montana's fragile body been able to withstand the abuse that Elway had to endure. Elway took 3 very mediocre Bronco's teams in the 80's to SuperBowls with no running game, average receivers and no offensive line. Montana was great within the system he played in and the talent he was surrounded by on both sides of the ball. Elway is great no matter what is around him, good or bad. The Greatest Ever.
 
Bobo said:
Yeah, there is always just ONE reason. I mean Brady is SO overrated right? And that Dillon guy didn't do much either...

The fact they controlled the clock the seond half for the most part and actually scored didn't really help at all. Last time I checked you still have to score more points than your opponent.



:rolleyes:


The reason they won is because they had a running game and their defense could stop the run. That in itself forces you to pass which ALWAYS produces more turnovers.

They won because they were a better complete team.
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NE defensive aquiring turnovers won the game. Its easy for an offense to score when your starting on the other team end of the field.


The offesive stats against the steelers were almost exactly the same as new englands difference was 3 turnovers and the field position where new england started. Even thou the steelers were blessed to even get by the jets.

The offensive catergories were pretty close for the ne and philly game too. yes NE had more rushing but only a total of 112 yards hardly a power house of a running team.Philly had more passing yards to make up for it. Difference 4 turnover and better field position. So yes Brady is ovwerrated he is a good quarterback, but not a great quarter back. There are at least ten quarterbacks playing the nfl that you could plug into that system and would win the superbowl. Bottom line is when you r defense creates as many turnovers as theres does your gonna win alot of games, even more so when you start on the other teams end of the feild.



They won because they were a better complete team I agree with that they are a better complete team.
 
rugger48 said:
NE defensive aquiring turnovers won the game. Its easy for an offense to score when your starting on the other team end of the field.


So yes Brady is ovwerrated he is a good quarterback, but not a great quarter back. There are at least ten quarterbacks playing the nfl that you could plug into that system and would win thå superbowl.



They won because they were a better complete team I agree with that they are a better complete team.
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1. It didn't win the game. THere is never ONE reason any team wins the game.

2. Right...That might be the funniest statement I have seen in a while.

Yes, a complete team. NOT just because they created turnovers. It wasn't their defense that took 9 minutes off the clock in the second half while scoring 10 points.
 
rugger48 said:
NE defensive aquiring turnovers won the game. Its easy for an offense to score when your starting on the other team end of the field
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NE got an INT at the NE goal line and didn`t score, a fumble at the NE 38 and didn`t score, an INT at the NE 24 and didn`t score, and the last INT stopped the Birds from making 1 or 2 more throws at the end... The 27 yd punt from Johnson gave NE the ball at the Birds 43 and they scored...

Two of those TO took at least 6 points off the board but NE didn`t score nor got the ball in Birds territory as a result except the last one...

More than anything else the fact that NE forced Johnson to go 5DB`s and play a rookie who never played, remove Trotter .. and insert Reese as one of 2 LB`s...which then allowed NE to run was a major factor... IMHO
 
No matter what,,,,Randy Moss in the Redzone,,,is unstoppable,,,,sure T.O blocks better and blah blah,,,But Randy running full speed throwing his hands up getting ready for the Rock,,,ohh,,thats a fantasy owners dream come true,,,,
2005 stat predictions for Moss 80 rec 1200 yards 17 TD's
Owens 95 rec 1300 yards 10 TD's
 
uh... buddy, Randy has to get NEAR the endzone before you can do those jump balls. Oakland might not get near the endzone 17 times the whole year.

Not trying to start an Oakland bashing, but do they have enough for Randy to be that productive? And with some of the secondaries he's going to encounter it's going to be difficult. Someone tell me that Randy's coming from a division with great secondaries... please...

Might a different task this year... though Randy is VERY talented, I'll give you that. Still up in the air I think.
 
Chiming in late here.

Bayless is Clueless!

TO is sooo slow that he has twice won the NFL "Fastest Man" contest and just a few weeks ago was described by the Eagles Speed Trainer/Consultant as "The Fastest Man" on the team.

TO turned in a lot of long gainers, but we are blind if we don't admit (hard as it may be to do LOL) that Pinkerbell was the Best in the NFL for a #2 at long gainers. He and TO actually played off each other pretty well. With Lewis or the rookie Brown taking over for Freddie The Freeloader and with Westy back, the odds of TO having enough support to have another good year are better than ever. (I admit he really slumped those five games before he went out after ruling the roost the first nine. Of course Westy emerging as the best receiving RB in Eagles history had a lot to do with that and with TO's subsequent temper tantrum).

I believe it was often reported that TO had actually negotiated this contract (of course through his old agent Joseph) while he was expecting to really be a free agent and when the face saving "trade" was put together he and the Eagles wrote it up for good. That is one of my biggest reasons for believing he should honor it and quit the obfuscation.l

As for the SB, I agree, turnovers were the biggest problem. The complete breakdown of Fraley and the interior Oline was another major factor. Lito's TD brainfart in the endzone was as stupid as Dawkins boner the previous year. Carley Simons, Roadkill Adams and the rookie Ware didn't help the D much either.
 
I wouldn't want either on my team.

But I think Moss is the best reciever in the game at the moment. At the same time TO is the best all around reciever..meaning he blocks well, can rough it up etc. Moss is just pure reciever.

I would never want TO on my team, even if his salary was 1$ a year..the guy is a team breaker. His attitude just isn't worth it....while Moss isnt much better, I think TO is a piece of ****. No matter how much skill you have, when you start causing team problems your not worth it.
 
JeffGP said:
I wouldn't want either on my team.

But I think Moss is the best reciever in the game at the moment. At the same time TO is the best all around reciever..meaning he blocks well, can rough it up etc. Moss is just pure reciever.

I would never want TO on my team, even if his salary was 1$ a year..the guy is a team breaker. His attitude just isn't worth it....while Moss isnt much better, I think TO is a piece of ****. No matter how much skill you have, when you start causing team problems your not worth it.
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Sometimes I wonder if people actually watched the Eagles last year compared to other years.

Yeah, he really makes your team worse.



:rolleyes:
 
Owens making your team worse is a ridiculous statement. Though I have doubts on how "great" McNabb truly is, there's no doubt TO makes a team MUCH better.

Oh yeah, it's not even football season. I find it funny that TOs laundry gets aired like it does. I'd like to track the story and find out how it got out that he wanted more money. I mean, if TO had his agent contact the Eagles and said, "we'd like to talk about salary, etc" then there's no problem with that. Reworking contracts happen all the time. Also, TOs contract is such where it's heavily back loaded. With his knee, and age, perhaps he wanted to get it more front loaded or evened out so he could perhaps retire earlier. That's justifiable I think.

Then it gets aired and suddenly he's hit with questions about it. Those are the times TO needs to keep his mouth shut or downplay it a little bit. The media keeps pushing and pushing and he needs to back away. That's where his mistakes are.

Oh yeah, in 2 months when it's all finished and all is good with TO and he's happy, when it's STILL not even football time, this will in the past. Then football season will start up, he'll get 15 TDs, and Philly fans will say, "man, we couldn't imagine life without TO."

Relax.
 
hehe....the truth has been spoken (excpet the mcnabb part :D )


As for the contract, he wants more guaranteed money since he will only get 3.15mil this year. Next year he will get a bunch of bonus money which will work out to about 9mil but almost all of that can be taken away if the Eagles cut him. Cut him? Well, if he has another injury like the one he had or proves to not be the same reciever because of his injury, they most certainly will cut him to save 9 mil. Its all about guaranteed money. This isn't the NBA or MLB where you get the money regardless.
 
natedogg said:
In all actuallity I don't think any one player will win you a Super Bowl. The Pats are winners because they have fantastic team chemistry, unselfishness (the abilty to go for less money in order to keep that chemistry going) and the team is chalked full of overachievers. No one player (besides Brady MAYBE) really jumps out at you as being the opitomy of greatness.
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And their DEFENSE! Their D is amazing, it complements their O perfectly. Bill is one helluva coach.
I love T.O., and I myself am a cocky bastard, and always was that way on the field. To be a good wideout or DB you HAVE to be cocky, ask LakeMountD I'm sure he'll agree! ;) But TO has taken it over the edge a little bit this year, and he's starting to piss me off about all this $$$ thing. I however, think a lot of that was his agents fault, he was the one advising him to hold out, to get more $$$, etc. But as far as it comes down to the athlete, T.O. is superior IMO. Just look at the guys effin' pecs... Jesus...
 
not_big_enuf said:
uh... buddy, Randy has to get NEAR the endzone before you can do those jump balls. Oakland might not get near the endzone 17 times the whole year.

Not trying to start an Oakland bashing, but do they have enough for Randy to be that productive? And with some of the secondaries he's going to encounter it's going to be difficult. Someone tell me that Randy's coming from a division with great secondaries... please...

Might a different task this year... though Randy is VERY talented, I'll give you that. Still up in the air I think.
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I agree with that 110%... You know your football bro, I'll give you that!
 
Bobo said:
hehe....the truth has been spoken (excpet the mcnabb part :D )


As for the contract, he wants more guaranteed money since he will only get 3.15mil this year. Next year he will get a bunch of bonus money which will work out to about 9mil but almost all of that can be taken away if the Eagles cut him. Cut him? Well, if he has another injury like the one he had or proves to not be the same reciever because of his injury, they most certainly will cut him to save 9 mil. Its all about guaranteed money. This isn't the NBA or MLB where you get the money regardless.
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Doh, I forgot about the guaranteed money part. I don't blame him at all for wanting to make sure he's paid right now. I'm guessing that knee scared the hell of TO and he realized he needs to secure his future a bit. Probably a smart move trying to get more dough right now...
 
Dutchman said:
I believe it was often reported that TO had actually negotiated this contract (of course through his old agent Joseph) while he was expecting to really be a free agent and when the face saving "trade" was put together he and the Eagles wrote it up for good. That is one of my biggest reasons for believing he should honor it and quit the obfuscation.
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So true... it`s funny the national media says TO`s agent screwed the pooch when in fact it was the 49`ers and the NFL office... TO signed his contract with a specified date to report to the 49ers he would walk... sometime after this was OKed the NFL changed the dates for free agents to notify... hence the date in TO`s contract should have been grandfathered in... that is why there was a hearing and why the word was the judge would make him a free agent...
 
If that was the case, he would still have the same agent.

So whatever is reported and what you THINK you know, the bottom line is TO doesn't have that agent anymore so that should tell you what the REAL story is.
 
Owens is a awsome player,,off the field he's a str8 bitch,,,,man u sign that contract u honor it regardless.....with or without Owens Eagles are some of the biggest chokers of all time....they will not win the NFC next season if they dont get home field advantage...and as far people saying Oakland wont get near the redzone lol thats pretty funny bro,,,obviously u never watched Lamont Jordan backup Curtis Martin,,,Jordan is sick,,,,he'll open up the passing game like never b4.....Oakland will be top 4 in scoring points this season granted that Moss or Jordan dont get hurt,,,,lets not forget Porter its already hard enough for any corner or saftey or Wrap up Moss,,,but have u dudes seen how big Jerry Porter is,,,he should almost be a tight end,,hes like Alge Crumplers size,,,u better have one gangster all Secondary to stop Oaktowns passing game....
 
oswizzle said:
Owens is a awsome player,,off the field he's a str8 bitch,,,,man u sign that contract u honor it regardless.....with or without Owens Eagles are some of the biggest chokers of all time....they will not win the NFC next season if they dont get home field advantage...and as far people saying Oakland wont get near the redzone lol thats pretty funny bro,,,obviously u never watched Lamont Jordan backup Curtis Martin,,,Jordan is sick,,,,he'll open up the passing game like never b4.....Oakland will be top 4 in scoring points this season granted that Moss or Jordan dont get hurt,,,,lets not forget Porter its already hard enough for any corner or saftey or Wrap up Moss,,,but have u dudes seen how big Jerry Porter is,,,he should almost be a tight end,,hes like Alge Crumplers size,,,u better have one gangster all Secondary to stop Oaktowns passing game....
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LMAO..


Man, those Oakland fans are really in a fantasy world.


Criticizing Owens for his oiff the field business practices then falling in love with Moss who actually walked out on his teamates DURING THE GAME?!?!?!

Sniff sniff....I smell hypocrisy....


:rofl:


Lamont Jordan? Give me a break. I watched him do jack **** for the Jets. Porter? 6'2 220. Crumpler, 6'2 262.

Time to come back down to earth.
 
Bobo come on man,,,first off,,,i'm far from a Raiders fan,,,,, second,,,lets compare Oaklands WR's to the Colts who have the Number 1 passing offense,,,,

Moss or Harrison...hhmmm maybe 4 years ago Harrison,,,not any more

Porter or Wayne.....Porter by a mile

Curry or Stokley.....remember that sick ass one handed catch against Denver in the snow,,,Curry put it down that game oh yeah he's 6'2 220 also

Collins or Manning lol i wont make myself look like a str8 dumbass,,,we all know the answer to that,,,

All i am saying is Moss is gonna elevate that passing game to another level,,,no secondary has the many power to shut down this Offense,,,too bad there defense sucks dick,,, when Moss walked out on his team that **** was whack,,,,,check out these stats the last 2 years moss or owens huh

Moss last 3 seasons
rec yards tds
111 1632 17
106 1347 7
49 767 13 inured for most of the 2nd half of the season

Owens last 3 seasons

rec yards td
100 1300 13
80 1102 9
77 1200 14

both bomb ass players no doubt,,,I'll take Moss
 
i'm telling you we should start a Fantasy league on here,,,,make the grand prize a few bottles of something or whatever,,,i'm so confident in Moss that I'd draft his ass with any pick but the first 2....Anyone got some balls to throw it down lets do the damn things fellaz,,,,by the way i really dont like Moss or Owens,,,,I'm more down with Class act players..thats besides the point.
 
oswizzle said:
Bobo come on man,,,first off,,,i'm far from a Raiders fan,,,,, second,,,lets compare Oaklands WR's to the Colts who have the Number 1 passing offense,,,,

Moss or Harrison...hhmmm maybe 4 years ago Harrison,,,not any more

Porter or Wayne.....Porter by a mile

Curry or Stokley.....remember that sick ass one handed catch against Denver in the snow,,,Curry put it down that game oh yeah he's 6'2 220 also

Collins or Manning lol i wont make myself look like a str8 dumbass,,,we all know the answer to that,,,

All i am saying is Moss is gonna elevate that passing game to another level,,,no secondary has the many power to shut down this Offense,,,too bad there defense sucks dick,,, when Moss walked out on his team that **** was whack,,,,,check out these stats the last 2 years moss or owens huh

Moss last 3 seasons
rec yards tds
111 1632 17
106 1347 7
49 767 13 inured for most of the 2nd half of the season

Owens last 3 seasons

rec yards td
100 1300 13
80 1102 9
77 1200 14

both bomb ass players no doubt,,,I'll take Moss
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Put Moss on San Fran the last 3 years and see what happens.

What happened when TO had a decent team around him? His performance was just as good if not better than Moss.

Both are great players. I never said Moss was overrated or had a bad attitude (well actually I did :lol: ) and any of the **** that I don't really care about. I simply state that as a player I would want TO because he does so much more than Moss ever will.

You actually think he will do better with Kerry Collins that Culpepper??!!?!
 
im from the burbs north of philly,(not a eagles fan at all) and my friends that are fans are really sick of TO`s mouth. he is really good but i wouldnt want him on my team.
 
And you forget to add in Owens only playes 14 games last year, 15 in 2003, and 14 in 2002.
 
so i take that as a no no for the Fantasy League?
Owens is a better blocker,,,thats for sure,,,,i just think Moss's speed and Jumping ability make him better then Owens
 
oswizzle said:
so i take that as a no no for the Fantasy League?
Owens is a better blocker,,,thats for sure,,,,i just think Moss's speed and Jumping ability make him better then Owens
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Owens is better after the catch, is much more physical, and is just as dangerous down the field as Moss.

Moss can be pushed around. The Eagles did it twice in consecutive years and he didn't do much (except for garbage yards).
 
WHAT? Porter by a mile over Reggie Wayne? Anything you say or said from that point on is invalidated forever. Everyone has an opinion but yours is wrong... come on man...
 
Bobo said:
Put Moss on San Fran the last 3 years and see what happens.


You actually think he will do better with Kerry Collins that Culpepper??!!?!
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with jeff garcia and a decent defense? yes, i think moss would do just as well if not better...T.O wasn't there when garcia wasn't and they made the playoffs the last year her was there.


collins is a better downfield passer than culpepper..but will moss have the same stats as he's used to? no, because he's got a damn good # 2 and 3 wr.

as far as raider fans being unrealistic....everyone on here is being unrealistic because noone knows what their team will do this year..it's what being a football fan is about. as i said before, if we can field a 1/2 way decent defense this year (which a lot will count on ryan not staying with the 3-4 that we don't have the personnel for) and jordan can be the back he's expected to be, we will be in the playoff hunt.
 
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