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Protein Shake vs FOOD Source

mr.cooper69 said:
You are correct. Nothing makes real food better outside of satiety. However, variety is key. Overdoing, say, chicken breast, leaves your amino acid pool quite skewed towards certain AAs. The same applies to relying heavily on whey protein. The real point is don't overdo any one source (protein or whole food), as you may be short changing yourself.
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mr.cooper69 said:
Ok

1. Protein powder has an equivalent thermic effect to whole food, since the thermic effect is 99% chemical.
2. Correct, no muscle-building benefit from one whole protein source over another in the context of a high protein diet.
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Point proven.
 
uvawahoowa said:
Most doctors aren't educated on nutrition, so they will spout ridiculous nonsense like that
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His kidneys had to be effed up in the first place. I am a year away from my BS in nutrition and will get my RD shortly thereafter as well as applying to med school. Most Doctors don't know diddly about nutrition. Neither do most CPTs or coaches. There's a reason nutritionists take 3 yrs of nutrition/chemistry/biology courses
 
So agmatine used at 1g seems to be the normal "full" dose for people for great pumps now my question is if your on cycle you can store more glycogen so if I drink more water and up my agmatine would that create a bigger pump since I'm on cycle?
 
liftandeat said:
Haha oh my god man the title of this thread is protein shakes vs food source. Food always wins. What did they do back when they didn't have protein powder. Show me some scientific evidence that powder is as good as food. C'mon I've been trying to prove my point try to prove yours. Educate me bro.
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Protein powder is useful for what it is designed for; giving protein.. Its not a meal replacement or substitute,its something extra to coincide with a diet.
 
Also I would like to point out that I agree that whole foods are better.

But my main point of disagreement is you saying that protein shakes are damaging to the kidneys because they are somehow different than other forms of protein.

Macronutrients are macronutrients, its the micronutrients that make the difference for me.
 
howwedo107 said:
So agmatine used at 1g seems to be the normal "full" dose for people for great pumps now my question is if your on cycle you can store more glycogen so if I drink more water and up my agmatine would that create a bigger pump since I'm on cycle?
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Let's find out :)
 
liftandeat said:
Ok trying to learn not fight. So on # 2 your saying that the protein from real food like meat is just as good as the protein from powder?
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Its all digested and absorbed the same.

The body doesn't discriminate because of it being liquid and it is all absorbed equally.

Ultimately it is milk protein, if it were any different from beef or chicken then the same argument could be made for the protein you gain from milk.
 
Jiigzz said:
Protein powder is useful for what it is designed for; giving protein.. Its not a meal replacement or substitute,its something extra to coincide with a diet.
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boom!
 
liftandeat said:
Regardless of what the ads tell you, protein shakes do not offer any muscle building benefit, nor "secret muscle building ingredient", above and beyond what real food offers you. Yes, I have read the ads too with all sorts of speedy muscle building promises but I can assure you through experience that most of the ingredients advertised as miraculous have not been proven to work neither by science (even though most ads of this nature usually talk about research studies that usually do not exist) nor by actual results at the gym. These products however have been proven beyond the shadow of any scientific doubt to shrink the size of your wallet and bank account.
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So, all his point is, is that protein shakes-powder protein doesn't help you build muscle more than whole food based protein? Well, no sheet. No one here is claiming it does. You just went from arguing protein powder is bad for you, not as beneficial for you as whole foods, to finding some mindless bro science ramble as to why protein powder doesn't contain miracle muscle building qualities.
 
So the take away here is to sprinkle protein powder on my steak and captain crunch

Got it!

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criticalbench said:
Lmao.. you spill protein into urine after eating a large steak brah. So know steak must be deadly like powders if what your saying is correct.
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Sadly many doctors still tell you to stay away from red meat. It is depressing when you realize just how poor the guidance is from the authority figures that average people interface with on health topics.
 
Whole food is *always* better.

That being said, 2 scoops protein + 1.5cups of oats is a staple for me most mornings and sometimes evenings if i'm bulking.
 
Lutztenways said:
Sadly many doctors still tell you to stay away from red meat. It is depressing when you realize just how poor the guidance is from the authority figures that average people interface with on health topics.
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Ive never had this issue; in fact quite the opposite. What you must remember is that doctors,as educated as they are, are still human and their own personal feelings into something may end up as being advice whether its based on science or not. In this case if they say avoid red meat then ask why, and counter it if you disagree and try understand their perspective.
It happens in any industry, not just the medical
 
Whacked said:
For anyone who thinks food sources are superior to protein shakes......

Perhaps they are but my body didn't notice the difference at all.

I got sick of cooking meat and I am not a fan of convenient, canned or processed meats etc

So, for about 3 montsh now, I have been using a mixed veggie-protein-powder source (made of pea protein, hemp, brown rice etc) in place of 3 of my 4 meals' meat sources (which for me was white fish)

I have been doing this for 3+ months and I have not noticed ANY difference in body comp, weight etc

Just sharing

Before anyone asks, I continued to eat the other macros alongside the veggie-based protein shake (nuts, vegetables, etc)
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I agree I never noticed a difference when I exerimented a year ago.

Te only difference was my hunger. I was more hungry and missed the chew factor and feeling like I'm eating
 
how did i miss this fun thread?

i just gotsta get my pennies involved here lol

liftandeat said:
All that liquid protein is bad for your kidneys.
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no
Jiigzz said:
Sorry man but there is very little evidence to suggest that excessive protein intakes will harm kidney function, especially at intakes considered normal by the bodybuilding population.
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actually, in the healthy functioning individual, there is none

Jiigzz said:
I should have added that excess protein may only harm your kidneys if you have a pre-existing condition.
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glad you semi-cleaned that up

mr.cooper69 said:
1. Protein powder has an equivalent thermic effect to whole food, since the thermic effect is 99% chemical.
2. Correct, no muscle-building benefit from one whole protein source over another in the context of a high protein diet.
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but the chew factor bro, the chew factor
you are missing out on bodycomp friendly cal-burning in cuts by not chewing, which burns more calories than does swallowing a liquid!
:D

liftandeat said:
Bottom line is if you drink more than 2 protein shakes a day your over doing it.
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bottom line:
still no


all that said - i will say it is my preference to have real food
i kinda enjoy that
at the same time, 3 steaks + 3 shakes a day will get a mug swole
:yup:
 
I'm surprised that no one has pointed out, that chewing your food releases digestive enzymes, which help digest and absorb your food.
 
aaronagis said:
I'm surprised that no one has pointed out, that chewing your food releases digestive enzymes, which help digest and absorb your food.
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Digestive enzymes will be released once the protein shakes hits your stomach anyway. You miss out on salivary amylase, which is essentially only there to clean up leftover starches in the mouth (hence why chewing sugar-free gum is considered good for your teeth, as it promotes such release).
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Digestive enzymes will be released once the protein shakes hits your stomach anyway. You miss out on salivary amylase, which is essentially only there to clean up leftover starches in the mouth (hence why chewing sugar-free gum is considered good for your teeth, as it promotes such release).
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The digestive enzymes produced by the pancreas are critical to proper digestion, especially for foods that contain protein. Through the stimulation of the vagus nerve, chewing can provoke the pancreas to release it’s digestive enzymes. As such, thorough chewing will likely lead to an increase in digestive enzyme production and result in more complete digestion.

Unfortunately, chewing on gum can also stimulate the pancreas, but because there’s no food to digest, this results in a release of digestive enzymes that aren’t needed. If this happens on a regular basis, it could wear down the pancreas, result in a decline of digestive enzymes, and lead to chronically compromised digestion and health.
 
aaronagis said:
The digestive enzymes produced by the pancreas are critical to proper digestion, especially for foods that contain protein. Through the stimulation of the vagus nerve, chewing can provoke the pancreas to release it’s digestive enzymes. As such, thorough chewing will likely lead to an increase in digestive enzyme production and result in more complete digestion.

Unfortunately, chewing on gum can also stimulate the pancreas, but because there’s no food to digest, this results in a release of digestive enzymes that aren’t needed. If this happens on a regular basis, it could wear down the pancreas, result in a decline of digestive enzymes, and lead to chronically compromised digestion and health.
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I am well aware of how duodenal digestion is mediated (my post was about salivary amylase), and release can occur at numerous stages (smelling food, tasting food [<- note that chewing is not required!], and pepsin release).

I find it hard to believe that one would deplete digestive enzymes via gum-chewing, but if you have a source for that claim, I'd be happy to read it.
 
aaronagis said:
Unfortunately, chewing on gum can also stimulate the pancreas, but because there’s no food to digest, this results in a release of digestive enzymes that aren’t needed. If this happens on a regular basis, it could wear down the pancreas, result in a decline of digestive enzymes, and lead to chronically compromised digestion and health.
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so all those hundreds of thousands of smokers who quit by taking up gum-chewing ...
are yet still compromising their health
huh
damned if you and damned if you don't
:sad:

i think not
 
mr.cooper69 said:
I am well aware of how duodenal digestion is mediated (my post was about salivary amylase), and release can occur at numerous stages (smelling food, tasting food [<- note that chewing is not required!], and pepsin release).

I find it hard to believe that one would deplete digestive enzymes via gum-chewing, but if you have a source for that claim, I'd be happy to read it.
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i find it hard to believe that anyone would partake in an intellectual battle with mr cooper
 
bmftisftw said:
i find it hard to believe that anyone would partake in an intellectual battle with mr cooper
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while i respect the compliment paid to cy, this is double-edges sword my friend
great source of info is he..
always remember however, it is never a good practice, to never question a source of information
no disrespect meant whatsoever (to either him or you), but what you infer here is actually quite a scary proposition

if you never question what you are told, you will never have true growth
in fact, may be quite misinformed on some things, at the end of the day

always question your sources
always
 
snagencyV2.0 said:
while i respect the compliment paid to cy, this is double-edges sword my friend
great source of info is he..
always remember however, it is never a good practice, to never question a source of information
no disrespect meant whatsoever (to either him or you), but what you infer here is actually quite a scary proposition

if you never question what you are told, you will never have true growth
in fact, may be quite misinformed on some things, at the end of the day

always question your sources
always
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i did not mean to be so definitive
 
Guys, I never said that chewing gum would deplete your digestive enzymes, you came up with that. What I said was that it can lead to a decline in enzymes. Now, the only reason for that is the topic of the thread and someone's comment suggesting to chew gum and live off of shakes... One study shows a %5 decline in enzymes after only 1 day of gum chewing. That's just one day, not living of shakes for months and chewing gum to aid digestion. That's all.

stewartk.wetpaint.com /page/Research+Paper
 
aaronagis said:
The digestive enzymes produced by the pancreas are critical to proper digestion, especially for foods that contain protein. Through the stimulation of the vagus nerve, chewing can provoke the pancreas to release it’s digestive enzymes. As such, thorough chewing will likely lead to an increase in digestive enzyme production and result in more complete digestion.

Unfortunately, chewing on gum can also stimulate the pancreas, but because there’s no food to digest, this results in a release of digestive enzymes that aren’t needed. If this happens on a regular basis, it could wear down the pancreas, result in a decline of digestive enzymes, and lead to chronically compromised digestion and health.
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aaronagis said:
Guys, I never said that chewing gum would deplete your digestive enzymes, you came up with that.
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See bold.
 
bmftisftw said:
i find it hard to believe that anyone would partake in an intellectual battle with mr cooper
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I disagree and question coop just for fun sometimes.

Watch this.. arginine is an awesome ergogenic! :p

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See its fun!

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Foods fill you up more, have higher nutrition level, cost less, and are more complete.

I personally can feel the difference between food and shake...I can even tell the difference between a low quality protein powder (like concentrate and isolate mix) vs hydrolized or isolate.
 
Colbert said:
I personally can feel the difference between food and shake...
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i don't question this, but..

I can even tell the difference between a low quality protein powder (like concentrate and isolate mix) vs hydrolized or isolate.
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i question this

if you tell me you can tell the diff between identically constructed powders (cals/p/c/f) but can distinguish satiation levels simply based on processing methods..
yup, i'll question that all day long
 
Colbert said:
Foods fill you up more, have higher nutrition level, cost less, and are more complete.

I personally can feel the difference between food and shake...I can even tell the difference between a low quality protein powder (like concentrate and isolate mix) vs hydrolized or isolate.
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You said isolate twice. I too can tell the difference between isolate and isolate
 
So I made a shake today and blended in some oats (was out of Glycomyx ;) ) and left em kinda chunky so I could chew! Gotta get the enzymes flowing. ;)

Notsrs...actually kinda srs. :p
 
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