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Prime Vs. Havoc

i was thinking the same thing and also his chest is all red which might indicate he just got done working out and had a pump going?

I see good changes he's bigger almost everywhere. He had taken niacin, are you acusing him of pumping up for the pics. You are attacking someone who has developed a lot of respect and accountability for himself on this board. Both you and Ares should tread more lightly this kind of shite is not tollerated around here. You are not being constructive asking questions you acusing him of outright lying.
 
Can we leave USP Labs alone maybe? I'm going to say this once and it's not aimed at ANYONE. This is a bodybuilding and supplement forum. This isn't an outlet for a pointless crusade for consumers to bash on a given company's products. I'm not kissing @$$ to USP Labs, because I have to reason to. But, this is a company that started from the ground and has rapidly expanded into a very large name. Give them some credit. They've gotta be doing some things right. Some are looking too hard for something that isn't there.

Don't make anything of my post please. Let's just continue.
 
I wouldn't go that far as to say he is lying, and intentionally tried to mislead people.

However, there are differences in the photos, and as jsp0785 pointed out the redness, and my initial thoughts was a post-workout shot as well.

And the words "this kind of shite is not tollerated around here." is code word that this is group and one can not question one in the group. Kind of like the mafia.

You might actually want to listen to outsiders because they are presenting things without influence, and the fact that this is a public forum you should welcome different forms of feedback.

No one is trolling, attacking or questioning anybody's character, but simply pointing things out from a different perspective.

I do listen if they merit it. The kind of posting you guys do is not constructive nor enlightening by any stretch of the imagination. Try the product and give an honest review...

I don't need this board to tell me how well this product works because I have witnessed it first hand. 5-6 lbs with impressive strength gains is not even close to an exageration on Prime. I had a trainee put 40 lbs on his bench for 5 reps. I saw him swell up and lose weight. Nobody can tell me that it did not happen. The other unsponsored logs back this up, the sources are very creditable.

I will reiterate constructive discussion is always good no matter the source anything else is just hot air. Saying someone has their head up their azz because you disagree with what they say is Juvenille. Mullet and Jacob make good points there are good points to be made from both sides so make them and abandon the playground attitude. There is nothing wrong with disagreement, so quit acting like a child, is all I ask.
 
Can we leave USP Labs alone maybe? I'm going to say this once and it's not aimed at ANYONE. This is a bodybuilding and supplement forum. This isn't an outlet for a pointless crusade for consumers to bash on a given company's products. I'm not kissing @$$ to USP Labs, because I have to reason to. But, this is a company that started from the ground and has rapidly expanded into a very large name. Give them some credit. They've gotta be doing some things right. Some are looking too hard for something that isn't there.

Don't make anything of my post please. Let's just continue.

Damn you flip flop back forth with your comments regarding supplement companies.

Its just funny how some people can bash certain companies and not others. Its not ok for people to have an opinion either I see. No matter in which way someone delivers a negative comment about USP Labs its considered an all out bash. Yes some bash and some just make comments that their products don't work. But it seems only the positive comments stay around.
 
I do listen if they merit it. The kind of posting you guys do is not constructive nor enlightening by any stretch of the imagination. Try the product and give an honest review...

I don't need this board to tell me how well this product works because I have witnessed it first hand. 5-6 lbs with impressive strength gains is not even close to an exageration on Prime. I had a trainee put 40 lbs on his bench for 5 reps. I saw him swell up and lose weight. Nobody can tell me that it did not happen. The other unsponsored logs back this up, the sources are very creditable.

I will reiterate constructive discussion is always good no matter the source anything else is just hot air. Saying someone has their head up their azz because you disagree with what they say is Juvenille. Mullet and Jacob make good points there are good points to be made from both sides so make them and abandon the playground attitude. There is nothing wrong with disagreement, so quit acting like a child, is all I ask.

would high dosing cissus provide the same effect?
 
Can we leave USP Labs alone maybe? I'm going to say this once and it's not aimed at ANYONE. This is a bodybuilding and supplement forum. This isn't an outlet for a pointless crusade for consumers to bash on a given company's products. I'm not kissing @$$ to USP Labs, because I have to reason to. But, this is a company that started from the ground and has rapidly expanded into a very large name. Give them some credit. They've gotta be doing some things right. Some are looking too hard for something that isn't there.

Don't make anything of my post please. Let's just continue.

i don't see people bashing the company i see people saying this product doesn't work as good as a designer steroid. and until people are using this 10 years down the road which they may or may not like creatine then we won't know. there are a ton of products out there that say produce killer gains in order to never be heard from again. these products have also had logs to prove effectiveness.
 
and to the coments about prime increasing strength a ton while on it. i've increased my squat before by a good 20 or 30lbs just by taking ephedrine or albuterol
 
would high dosing cissus provide the same effect?

I don't think so, I am not speaking from a lack of experience here I have trained 100's of people over the years and some real monsters and I know unusual when I see it. The subject I was speaking of is my son and I know what he is capable of doing in X amount of time. I trained him from 14 years old. I will know more when my increases kick in.

Oh and I just got off the phone with my former trainer/partner and he reports massive strength increase and he's a the verge of setting personal records. He has been lifting 35 years and is world class (natural), and 53 so personal records are hard to come by. If you want to see a pic of him go to my AM Space and take a look. He is the guy in the first and second pic.

I did do a couple cycles of halodrol (original) and I liked it so I will compare my strength gains to it. I'll know right away how I am affected, after 20 years you know...If I don't get results though it doesn't mean it's a bad product, I have already seen what it can do for the right person.
 
I don't
Oh and I just got off the phone with my former trainer/partner and he reports massive strength increase and he's a the verge of setting personal records. He has been lifting 35 years and is world class (natural), and 53 so personal records are hard to come by. If you want to see a pic of him go to my AM Space and take a look. He is the guy in the first and second pic.
DREAM can you give me your best guesstimate on dosage. I am staying 285 - 290 range. You think I will need to mega dose. Appreciate your best guess
 
dream - are you just sticking with natty cycles now?
i remember hearing you picked up quite a few bottles of prime and tnt.
what's your plan? 2 months on 1 off or something?
 
This is to Poopy, Just curious cause 11lbs in a lot and i can see a difference in your pictures but i remember you being bigger a couple years back when u ran a lot of orals. Were you in the gym consistently before running prime?
I had been back about 2 months from being off a couple months and had already run a short 2 week kicker cycle and pct before running Prime.

The biggest I have EVER been was 198 but was a lot higher BF% at that time(july2007) as well while running Dbol and Epistane..... right now Im 194 and continually having to tighten my belt. Big difference.
 
ok guys my question was would the results of running a good cycle of havoc still beat running a long cycle of prime. wasn't interested in price. just if i could get close results with the prime to be safer. i have no problem running the havoc as i have ran sd a few times with less than perfect pct. gonna put up a very good pct this time. after reading this i'm thinking
nolva, p.c. support and either drive/prime or dthc. so i guess i will go with the havoc as i'm sure the results will be better for the time and money invested. if i include prime in pct i'll have tried both anyway. ok now tell me which you would go with pct prime/drive or dthc???
prime and Drive would be insane IMO
 
I see good changes he's bigger almost everywhere. He had taken niacin, are you acusing him of pumping up for the pics. You are attacking someone who has developed a lot of respect and accountability for himself on this board. Both you and Ares should tread more lightly this kind of shite is not tollerated around here. You are not being constructive asking questions you acusing him of outright lying.
what???
was a post deleted or something?

well DW already said it for me but if you look in my log in t he sig below where those pics were originally posted then youll see I stated that my chest was red from niacin.

Plus you can see VERY well in my unflexed picture on that page that the redness is very blotchy and abnormal looking, not something youd get from a pump. I took starting and ending pics un pumped before ever working out for the day so not even a lingering pump.

if you want a pump pic I can take one for you, they look sickly, I pump up like no other.... in fact heres one from only half way through my run... THERE is a pump with some normal redness and a HUGE difference... here

(taken 0ct 4)
flexed and pumped
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unflexed and pumped...
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now compare that to this unflexed shot comparison taken the same time as the pic in question.(and at the start obviously)

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Huge difference Eh??? so like I said you wanna pumped shot now Id be happy to oblige.
 
DREAM can you give me your best guesstimate on dosage. I am staying 285 - 290 range. You think I will need to mega dose. Appreciate your best guess

I think weight has very little to do with it, I think sensitivity is the key. Start out with recommended dose 6 a day 7 days a week. Read the literature if you are experiencing the symptoms you think you should be then there is no need for increased dose. If not try a slow increase but don't exceed 9 a day. Give it a week to see if you experience the euphoria, the second week continued euphoria with some strength increase, third should yeild unmistakable strength increase.
 
dream - are you just sticking with natty cycles now?
i remember hearing you picked up quite a few bottles of prime and tnt.
what's your plan? 2 months on 1 off or something?

Yah man that's the plan 2 months Prime 1 TNT with Neo then 2 months Prime and TNT and Neo again.
 
I haven't used Havoc, but have used Prime and I don't think they are even comparable based on results I've seen on havoc. USP makes some outlandish claims in advertising, but its just that, advertising.
When Prime was due to be launched , the USP labs REP was never away from the forum . Now its been launched and users have had time to assess it with some sceptism i might add . he or they are nowhere to be seen.

I ve said this before and ill keep on saying it and that is dont rely on hype for any product. Look at each ingredient , google it, see what comes up , then when you read the information which should be from a web site totally unrelated to bodybuilding, check to see what relevance it has to the claims that are made .

It just might save you being disappointed and some cash.
 
i'm looking for people having run both of these. i'm 43 and have ran a few s-drol cycles in the past. i've been planning a 25 day run of havoc . 5 days at 20mgs and 20 days at 40 mgs(one bottle). i have been seeing alot about prime and was wondering if being safer and able to run a longer cycle if that might not be the way to go. would the results with prime even be close to havoc?

not even close bro. prime is safer of course.
Just do the havoc and then use the prime during a PCT and get it over with. OH YEAH!
 
I ve said this before and ill keep on saying it and that is dont rely on hype for any product. Look at each ingredient , google it, see what comes up , then when you read the information which should be from a web site totally unrelated to bodybuilding, check to see what relevance it has to the claims that are made .

It just might save you being disappointed and some cash.
The only tidbit I would add to that is the fact that sometimes the white paper write up does not predict future results when actually put to the test ... so, if you ONLY go by write ups and not actual testing of the product, you might miss a good opportunity!


If i had only gone off of the write up concerning individual ingredients, I would have never tried mine and probably would have sold it off to someone else. However, the subjective was so very much impressive that I had to get a piece of the action early. I was seriously doubting it to reported extents, but now I am a believer thus far.
 
The only tidbit I would add to that is the fact that sometimes the white paper write up does not predict future results when actually put to the test ... so, if you ONLY go by write ups and not actual testing of the product, you might miss a good opportunity!


If i had only gone off of the write up concerning individual ingredients, I would have never tried mine and probably would have sold it off to someone else. However, the subjective was so very much impressive that I had to get a piece of the action early. I was seriously doubting it to reported extents, but now I am a believer thus far.

I'll second that... for me it was a combination of that and I loved Recreate so much that I thought if they did it once they can do it again. It's a good company that produces good products. I bought a bunch at 30 bucks and am really glad I did.
 
Not as of yet, no. It may be a priority in the future, but several other R & D projects are in the works! For now, our research team isolated the steroidal glycosides they felt - structurally - were the best, and it has been an anecdotal success; speaking for the ownership, that is all they need.
 
well im on my second bottle of prime.
i decided to incorporate it into a super cycle to best test its efficasy.

while it may not compare to havoc or others, i feel it still has a place in any cycle you plan.

take a look at my cycle:
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fantastic results i know. and even now while recovering from dermacrine and havoc, prime in this time has been very noticable.
my strength and weights are still going up.

mood is the same, marginally better than before the cycle but then again i was a fatty then... :-)

in another 10 days i will finish the last clen cycle and will be running prime alone finishing the 2nd and 3rd bottle.

i feel it was very instrumental in cementing the fat loss and the gains ive made so far.

on another note, i cant beleive how this minimal approach to dosing everything has worked so damn well.
wallet was pleased :-)
 
Not as of yet, no. It may be a priority in the future, but several other R & D projects are in the works! For now, our research team isolated the steroidal glycosides they felt - structurally - were the best, and it has been an anecdotal success; speaking for the ownership, that is all they need.

wouldn't it be beneficial to know how it works? you know for other products in the future and sounding intelligent. i'm not calling you guys out and calling u stupid but how can you take an extract of something that you think is the best when you have no clue why it does what it does?
 
wouldn't it be beneficial to know how it works? you know for other products in the future and sounding intelligent. i'm not calling you guys out and calling u stupid but how can you take an extract of something that you think is the best when you have no clue why it does what it does?

You may be elaborating on the operative terms here: Method of action and 'no clue'.

Our partners in India isolated glycosides within the Tribulus Alatus plant with known sapogenic steroidal structures which were of particular interest due to these same chemical structures. The possibility existed that they would do nothing, but not likely due to the structural similarity to other efficacious compounds. As a result, your definition of 'no clue', and our actual knowledge about the product, are an extreme disjunction. It is a true thing that I cannot tell you, down to each enzymatic conversion and so forth, what the product is doing, but the overarching pathways are self-evident. The most important factor is that Alpha testing revealed an extremely low possibility for toxicity, and Beta testing revealed that hormone disturbance was a non-factor.
 
yah, i dont really trust all of the reviews as they may be biased or placebo effects, but when the price drops down to a reasonable amount im going to give it a try!!
 
yah, i dont really trust all of the reviews as they may be biased or placebo effects, but when the price drops down to a reasonable amount im going to give it a try!!
Nothing better than trying it with your own 2 hands. I have no inside info on a Prime sale, but maybe Jacob will feel like giving at Christmas time, who knows :) If it helps, I just finished week 3 of my 2nd try of Prime.
 
You may be elaborating on the operative terms here: Method of action and 'no clue'.

Our partners in India isolated glycosides within the Tribulus Alatus plant with known sapogenic steroidal structures which were of particular interest due to these same chemical structures. The possibility existed that they would do nothing, but not likely due to the structural similarity to other efficacious compounds. As a result, your definition of 'no clue', and our actual knowledge about the product, are an extreme disjunction. It is a true thing that I cannot tell you, down to each enzymatic conversion and so forth, what the product is doing, but the overarching pathways are self-evident. The most important factor is that Alpha testing revealed an extremely low possibility for toxicity, and Beta testing revealed that hormone disturbance was a non-factor.

sweet thanks for the explanation
 
Nothing better than trying it with your own 2 hands. I have no inside info on a Prime sale, but maybe Jacob will feel like giving at Christmas time, who knows :) If it helps, I just finished week 3 of my 2nd try of Prime.

Prime in the UK - the cheapest almost £40 and most expensive almost £50

Some designer steroids can be bought for around £25.

Personally i wouldnt use either , but it would appear there is more anectodtal evidence to support the use of designer steroids for growth , than with Prime .

So in my book a lot more convincing needs to be done to justify the cost


( is this product made in India and shipped to the US.?
then shipped to your UK distributor? If so why carnt you ship direct to UK , the price may drop then)
 
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Today I hit a PR that I have to give Prime some credit on. I lifted 405 x 5 on squats. The most I had tried previously was 365. I am now a member of the 700lb club between bench and squats and pretty happy about it. I finished up my epistane cycle over 6 weeks ago and I have continued massive strength increases every week.
 
Prime in the UK - the cheapest almost £40 and most expensive almost £50

Some designer steroids can be bought for around £25.

Personally i wouldnt use either , but it would appear there is more anectodtal evidence to support the use of designer steroids for growth , than with Prime .

So in my book a lot more convincing needs to be done to justify the cost


( is this product made in India and shipped to the US.?
then shipped to your UK distributor? If so why carnt you ship direct to UK , the price may drop then)
one thing many folks in the UK dont understand is that it isnt shipping back and forth or importing the product period that causes the increase in price. This is solely dependent on the site your buying it from and nothing else. THEY see a US $ price and decide WTF, why not just sell it here for the same number of £'s instead.

THEY set the price and mark it up considerably nothing else. Why not just buy it from the US and have it shipped? would still be about half the cost from what youd pay over there. I see everyone do this in AUS but for some reason the folks in the UK cant get a clue?
 
Importing from outside the E U
An example:Goods £100
shipping say: £15
import duty on £115 @say 5% =£5.75
TOTAL FOR VAT 120.75
vat @17.5% = £21.13
GRAND TOTAL £141.88

On top of that there is an additional charge made by the courier delivering the item to the addressee

So on goods totalling £100 the importer is paying i would estimate 60% more in tax , duty and handling charges .
 
Importing from outside the E U
An example:Goods £100
shipping say: £15
import duty on £115 @say 5% =£5.75
TOTAL FOR VAT 120.75
vat @17.5% = £21.13
GRAND TOTAL £141.88

On top of that there is an additional charge made by the courier delivering the item to the addressee

So on goods totalling £100 the importer is paying i would estimate 60% more in tax , duty and handling charges .

you forget though that the importer is buying said goods at a WHOLESALE USD PRICE. This means by buying in bulk and doing so at a wholesale cost, not marked up retail his £100 is getting ALOT more then you think and ALOT more then what hes then marking up 2x over the USD retail value of that product

Again the cost your buying ISNT cause of it being imported BUT because your stores/sites are greedy and feel they have something youll buy just cause its right there???

Again this STILL doesnt explain why you wont just purchase it from a US supplier at a USD cost and pay MAYBE $15-$20 in shipping????

The whole tax and import rules you list above WONT change if it came from india AND wont change the wholesale cost as that is typically set in stone by a company regardless.
 
the importer in my example is a personal shopper who would buy from a US web site It would seem pointless just buying one product from the US so £100 was quoted .
Anyway what is not clear from the manufacturer is the cost of production and his mark-up price.There must be room for manoeurve both for you in the states and elsewhere to reduce the price on this or any other supplement originating from the US.
Anyway I dont wish to support a foreign economy when the UK economy in general needs a boost. By supporting a British retailer I feel Im doing my bit. I know what I can afford , I know what I want to buy .If his mark up price is helping him keep in business then all to the good.


Your point about being greedy applies everywhere in the retailing sector where ever you are If a retailer can get away with the price he will .LEVI jeans over here can cost £70 .I expect in New York theyll be about half that . Its all about demand and popularity .Anyway I m straying off topic.Conversation over.
 
the importer in my example is a personal shopper who would buy from a US web site It would seem pointless just buying one product from the US so £100 was quoted .
Anyway what is not clear from the manufacturer is the cost of production and his mark-up price.There must be room for manoeurve both for you in the states and elsewhere to reduce the price on this or any other supplement originating from the US.
Anyway I dont wish to support a foreign economy when the UK economy in general needs a boost. By supporting a British retailer I feel Im doing my bit. I know what I can afford , I know what I want to buy .If his mark up price is helping him keep in business then all to the good.


Your point about being greedy applies everywhere in the retailing sector where ever you are If a retailer can get away with the price he will .LEVI jeans over here can cost £70 .I expect in New York theyll be about half that . Its all about demand and popularity .Anyway I m straying off topic.Conversation over.

Incorrect. Most supplement companies utilize overseas distributors. This means that the end-point retailer is not importing individual products, as that is not prudent. He/she is purchasing the products from a distributor who imports massive amounts of product at one time - i.e., your formula above pertaining to duty and so forth is not applicable. Retailers then set the price, believing people will assume what you have. This concept of massive shipping costs and so forth is minute when viewed from the macroscopic scale of national distribution - almost no website will purchase directly from the manufacturer, but a U.K., based distributer.
 
Incorrect. Most supplement companies utilize overseas distributors. This means that the end-point retailer is not importing individual products, as that is not prudent. He/she is purchasing the products from a distributor who imports massive amounts of product at one time - i.e., your formula above pertaining to duty and so forth is not applicable. Retailers then set the price, believing people will assume what you have. This concept of massive shipping costs and so forth is minute when viewed from the macroscopic scale of national distribution - almost no website will purchase directly from the manufacturer, but a U.K., based distributer.

I dont understand why the duties etc are not applicable.The duty has to be paid by someone .For example Joe Bloggs is the Gaspari distributor in the UK , he imports say 500,000 of Superpump 250 from Gaspari US .The 500,000 superpump 250 will be eligible to all the various taxes/ duty etc imposed by HM Government. The price to the UK Retailer will reflect any costs paid by the UK distributor. Then the consumer pays a price for the item .Part of the price will cover the costs on duty/taxes so he , the retailer is not out of pocket
 
I dont understand why the duties etc are not applicable.The duty has to be paid by someone .For example Joe Bloggs is the Gaspari distributor in the UK , he imports say 500,000 of Superpump 250 from Gaspari US .The 500,000 superpump 250 will be eligible to all the various taxes/ duty etc imposed by HM Government. The price to the UK Retailer will reflect any costs paid by the UK distributor. Then the consumer pays a price for the item .Part of the price will cover the costs on duty/taxes so he , the retailer is not out of pocket

You are attempting to project a single-import duty scheme to imports of mass proportions - such is not the case. If massive distribution chains were privy to the same charges as individual shipments, retail consumption would not exist. The disparity in prices you are seeing is not due to import taxes, duties, and so on. The formula alters slightly when you are dealing with 500,000 units compared to 5 units.

For example, when I cross the Canadian border with $700 worth of goods, I will most likely pay duty. When a trucker crosses with $200,000 worth of goods, he may pay the same duty due to his brokerage. It would seem you are not factoring in scope and scale into your equation.
 
You are attempting to project a single-import duty scheme to imports of mass proportions - such is not the case. If massive distribution chains were privy to the same charges as individual shipments, retail consumption would not exist. The disparity in prices you are seeing is not due to import taxes, duties, and so on. The formula alters slightly when you are dealing with 500,000 units compared to 5 units.

For example, when I cross the Canadian border with $700 worth of goods, I will most likely pay duty. When a trucker crosses with $200,000 worth of goods, he may pay the same duty due to his brokerage. It would seem you are not factoring in scope and scale into your equation.

You cannot assume the regulations laid down by the Canadian Govt or the US Govt are the same as those used by HM Customs
The Guide to importing and exporting issued by HM Customs clearly quotes "Who is this publication aimed at?
This information pack is for anybody, whether already in business or not,

It then goes on to refer to "When you import goods, you must declare a value (known as the customs value) on the C88. It is important that this value is correct as this is the amount on which any duties and VAT due will be calculated. The customs value is also crucial to obtaining accurate trade statistics."

So whether you are importing one item or several the importer is subject to the same taxes/duty.

"How do I determine the customs value of my goods?
Where the goods you are importing are subject to a sale, the customs value should be based on the CIF price (cost, insurance, freight) plus certain other costs you may have incurred in purchasing the goods (e.g. some commissions, royalty and licence fees."

So your phrase" a single import duty scheme" has hit it right on the head, because that is exactly what it is
 
You cannot assume the regulations laid down by the Canadian Govt or the US Govt are the same as those used by HM Customs
The Guide to importing and exporting issued by HM Customs clearly quotes "Who is this publication aimed at?
This information pack is for anybody, whether already in business or not,

It then goes on to refer to "When you import goods, you must declare a value (known as the customs value) on the C88. It is important that this value is correct as this is the amount on which any duties and VAT due will be calculated. The customs value is also crucial to obtaining accurate trade statistics."

So whether you are importing one item or several the importer is subject to the same taxes/duty.

"How do I determine the customs value of my goods?
Where the goods you are importing are subject to a sale, the customs value should be based on the CIF price (cost, insurance, freight) plus certain other costs you may have incurred in purchasing the goods (e.g. some commissions, royalty and licence fees."

So your phrase" a single import duty scheme" has hit it right on the head, because that is exactly what it is

That was fun. Are you finished?

In your glossing over of the HM Importing/Exporting Guide, you missed several points which are pertinent to the discussion here. Specifically, it would seem, you decided not to share with our audience the terms of valuation; specifically, that valuation occurs based on transaction value. - i.e., when a distributor in the U.K., does not want to pay massive VAT and duty, they may take the shipment on consignment. As no transaction has taken place, the valuation process is altered, and duties are significantly lowered, or even relieved completely. In instances of consignment transactions $4000<, no valuation declaration needs to be presented at all. Believe it or not, but consignment is an incredibly common practice, for just this reason.

Now, in the circumstance that consignment is not undertaken, the distributor (and they will all do this) will hire a professional Commercial Brokerage Firm to negotiate tariffs and/or VAT and/or duty fee reductions. This is a necessary practice given shipments of the magnitude we are talking about in this particular discussion. There are several methods of VAT reduction - or complete relief - though it is not necessary to describe them all here. Suffice to say, my comments about you lacking scope and scale are applicable.

Further, it would seem you declined to to research which goods from which countries levy which particular VAT and/or duty and/or tariff fees. So, as I said earlier, the massively increased price from U.K., retailers is not due to VAT and/or duty fees.
 
mullet are you a teacher? cause I think Corsaking just got schooled :lol:


Dude king your posts are ALWAYS argumentative. I loved when you first came on the board and lectured some cat on why steroids are bad and how he should spend his money elsewhere YET you wont take our advice to just buy outta the UK and ship it cause your willing to give away extra money to greedy UK shops thinking its gonna stimulate the economy when its going to do nothing more but stimulate that guys wallet.

Save yourself some grief and some dinero and get what you want for the best price, your purchase isnt gonna make or break any country.

Just so you know I buy products from the UK that cant be found here any longer and/or can be found cheaper there (surprisingly) like ALRI M-TRN. So think of it as a trade off and just get some damn prime man.

SHEESH
 
i think we ll agree to disagree.Advice is just that -advice
With regard to steroids your claim of what i said is a misinterpretation,
The market at the moment is awash with designer steroids that are relatively new whereras sustanon 250, winstrol, deca, etc have been around and used for years.Some even are used for test replacement therapy . So this tells me that a lot more research and tests have been carried out before public consumption.

Now if i was to take steroids i would feel more comfortable using something thats been around for decades , than with the more recent.
I read the threads on the designers and a lot of guys dont appear to have much of an idea eg, whether to take the dose as recommended, whether to pulse, whether to up the dosage, what to use as a stack, how long to run it for,
questions about pct and so on .

If someone wants to self medicate ive no problem with that.Each to their own. But what surprises me is the naivity of some people embarking on this road.Fools rush in ...etc

With regard to my posts being argumentative , Im hoping they stimulate the old grey matter .I do like a good discussion .It makes a change to read something rather that one word contributions.
 
i think we ll agree to disagree.Advice is just that -advice
With regard to steroids your claim of what i said is a misinterpretation,
The market at the moment is awash with designer steroids that are relatively new whereras sustanon 250, winstrol, deca, etc have been around and used for years.Some even are used for test replacement therapy . So this tells me that a lot more research and tests have been carried out before public consumption.

Now if i was to take steroids i would feel more comfortable using something thats been around for decades , than with the more recent.
I read the threads on the designers and a lot of guys dont appear to have much of an idea eg, whether to take the dose as recommended, whether to pulse, whether to up the dosage, what to use as a stack, how long to run it for,
questions about pct and so on .

If someone wants to self medicate ive no problem with that.Each to their own. But what surprises me is the naivity of some people embarking on this road.Fools rush in ...etc

With regard to my posts being argumentative , Im hoping they stimulate the old grey matter .I do like a good discussion .It makes a change to read something rather that one word contributions.

It does, but they are better when the argumentative line of reasoning is substantiated.
 
Can we leave USP Labs alone maybe? I'm going to say this once and it's not aimed at ANYONE. This is a bodybuilding and supplement forum. This isn't an outlet for a pointless crusade for consumers to bash on a given company's products. I'm not kissing @$$ to USP Labs, because I have to reason to. But, this is a company that started from the ground and has rapidly expanded into a very large name. Give them some credit. They've gotta be doing some things right. Some are looking too hard for something that isn't there.

Don't make anything of my post please. Let's just continue.

That's like saying Muscle Tech products are top notch. Just because they sell a ton doesn't mean they work. You'd be surprised what creative/deceiving marketing can do for one's business.

Truth is, I think USP has taken the crown from Muscle Tech in regards to highest B.S content in their advertising. Sad thing is I think some of their products are pretty good.
 
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