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President Obama

NateWA said:
what about someone working 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs who is losing their home. This is happening right now and its not from a lack of effort
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My compassion depends upon the mortgage that put them in this situation. If they very well knew that they could not afford the mortgage, despite the zero documentation, zero income verification, etc. etc., that they got into, then the fault is there own and we all have consequences to live with by making poor choices.

Touching on the point that Easy made about working for it - I'm in a situation where I have been in my field for 20+ years and over those years I have gone from check to check. In the last several years I have been a little more prosperous, where at the end of the month there would be a few hundred buck left. But as my family grows and the cost of living increases that few hundred bucks is gone. Gas inflated, food and utilities inflated, kids needed braces, college expenses, gymnastics, etc etc.

Now this economy tanked. My hours at work have been cut to 40 hours. That is the bare minimum for me to maintain my lifestyle.

So here I am at 43yo working week to week living from week to week knowing that every other month or so I will be hit with a orthodontist bill, a college expense, and gymnastic expense, etc etc that will be a negative.

Now the sad part is that I have enough credit and a good enough credit rating (800+ for both me and the wife) that I could bury myself in debt and no one would stop me.

I am sitting on the fence (right now I am actually stripping wall paper border in my kids room :( ) debating to go back to school and get a degree or just realize that I need to get another job in addition to the one I have.

My mortgage is well within my means, I have one car payment and the usual house expenses to keep a family of 5 in food and clothes.

I'm stuck right fcking smack in the middle. My middle class income has been devalued because of the lower class being elevated to living a middle class life - which now they are defaulting on and screwing my net value even more. I cannot even qualify to file bankrupt because I have immaculate credit and I am making my payments.

I guess my point is that WORK is required on my part, whether that be school until I get a degree, or a second job until my debt is payed down - or both. But I don't want a bail-out nor could I even qualify for one. Work is required by anyone that wants something in life more or better than what they have been born into or managed to make for themselves.
 
There were a couple things that shocked me last night after the election:
1) NBC was actually questioning his experience. (Now the light comes on..geesh)

2) Obama looked scared shitless giving his speech. Kinda like..."Oh damn I've got the job now" or "What is this glass box I'm in?"
 
NateWA said:
what about someone working 2 or 3 minimum wage jobs who is losing their home. This is happening right now and its not from a lack of effort
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So either a) you have one example of this or b) this person is and was an idiot, bought a house they couldn't afford since they have no valuable skills. Why should I pay for him to live above his means? Neither option means there should be global sweeping change. How about the 100 million or so people who aren't loosing their homes? they should be penalized because a few are?
 
EasyEJL said:
How about the 100 million or so people who aren't loosing their homes? they should be penalized because a few are?
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Well, I already am being penalized with a tremendous decline in home value, that which may take many years to recover.
 
B5150 said:
My compassion depends upon the mortgage that put them in this situation. If they very well knew that they could not afford the mortgage, despite the zero documentation, zero income verification, etc. etc., that they got into, then the fault is there own and we all have consequences to live with by making poor choices.

Touching on the point that Easy made about working for it - I'm in a situation where I have been in my field for 20+ years and over those years I have gone from check to check. In the last several years I have been a little more prosperous, where at the end of the month there would be a few hundred buck left. But as my family grows and the cost of living increases that few hundred bucks is gone. Gas inflated, food and utilities inflated, kids needed braces, college expenses, gymnastics, etc etc.

Now this economy tanked. My hours at work have been cut to 40 hours. That is the bare minimum for me to maintain my lifestyle.

So here I am at 43yo working week to week living from week to week knowing that every other month or so I will be hit with a orthodontist bill, a college expense, and gymnastic expense, etc etc that will be a negative.

Now the sad part is that I have enough credit and a good enough credit rating (800+ for both me and the wife) that I could bury myself in debt and no one would stop me.

I am sitting on the fence (right now I am actually stripping wall paper border in my kids room :( ) debating to go back to school and get a degree or just realize that I need to get another job in addition to the one I have.

My mortgage is well within my means, I have one car payment and the usual house expenses to keep a family of 5 in food and clothes.

I'm stuck right fcking smack in the middle. My middle class income has been devalued because of the lower class being elevated to living a middle class life - which now they are defaulting on and screwing my net value even more. I cannot even qualify to file bankrupt because I have immaculate credit and I am making my payments.

I guess my point is that WORK is required on my part, whether that be school until I get a degree, or a second job until my debt is payed down - or both. But I don't want a bail-out nor could I even qualify for one. Work is required by anyone that wants something in life more or better than what they have been born into or managed to make for themselves.
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I chose the option of going deeper into debt each month... up till may I was fine, but in april we had child #3. His daycare alone is $200 a week or just about $900 a month. Wife + I have cut our 401k contributions and are still going slightly further negative each month.... I know its largely temporary, as once he hits 1 it goes down a bit, and the middle daughter will start full time school next year, but it is hard. Right now, for this year, my wife's job is barely break even between the 3 daycares, gas, etc. but come next year it will be postiive again, and I can start catching back up. I'm sort of hoping for inflation, as it makes your debts easier to pay :D
 
EasyEJL said:
I chose the option of going deeper into debt each month... up till may I was fine, but in april we had child #3. His daycare alone is $200 a week or just about $900 a month. Wife + I have cut our 401k contributions and are still going slightly further negative each month.... I know its largely temporary, as once he hits 1 it goes down a bit, and the middle daughter will start full time school next year, but it is hard. Right now, for this year, my wife's job is barely break even between the 3 daycares, gas, etc. but come next year it will be postiive again, and I can start catching back up. I'm sort of hoping for inflation, as it makes your debts easier to pay :D
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Knowing I'm not alone in this situation only makes me fell like I am not alone...I still hate the feeling even with your company :D
 
I think a bunch of people are in that position, but theres a difference between people who will work the hardest at fixing it themselves & know that a lot of it is their own fault/choices and the people who say "why doesn't the government do something to fix this"

I know mine will start to fix itself next year, assuming of course no layoffs...
 
What disconcerts me the greatest is this: If the John McCain who delivered the concession speech - thoughtful, insightful, articulate, humble and full of grace - had run for President, he may have been the realization of Presidential ideal. That John McCain, the one of 2000 and previous, had unlimited potential and would have commanded respect and admiration from Republican and Democrat alike. I was so utterly disappointed when he displayed the traits which made him so characteristically 'John McCain', only at the very precipice of the campaign.

That particular John McCain would have been a far greater President than Barack Obama could ever aspire to be, IMO.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
What disconcerts me the greatest is this: If the John McCain who delivered the concession speech - thoughtful, insightful, articulate, humble and full of grace - had run for President, he may have been the realization of Presidential ideal. That John McCain, the one of 2000 and previous, had unlimited potential and would have commanded respect and admiration from Republican and Democrat alike. I was so utterly disappointed when he displayed the traits which made him so characteristically 'John McCain', only at the very precipice of the campaign.

That particular John McCain would have been a far greater President than Barack Obama could ever aspire to be, IMO.
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Dammit again I have to agree with you :D

He is a true american hero, its a pity he didn't win.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
What disconcerts me the greatest is this: If the John McCain who delivered the concession speech - thoughtful, insightful, articulate, humble and full of grace - had run for President, he may have been the realization of Presidential ideal. That John McCain, the one of 2000 and previous, had unlimited potential and would have commanded respect and admiration from Republican and Democrat alike. I was so utterly disappointed when he displayed the traits which made him so characteristically 'John McCain', only at the very precipice of the campaign.

That particular John McCain would have been a far greater President than Barack Obama could ever aspire to be, IMO.
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Agree completely.
 
EasyEJL said:
Dammit again I have to agree with you :D

He is a true american hero, its a pity he didn't win.
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I am not so sure about that; given the current circumstances, I feel Obama was the better choice. I truly wish the "2000-John McCain" had run, though: He would have been an actual politician of change. I honestly feel that under a McCain reign, the power of the executive branch would have been realized the fullest. Can you envision another politician aside from the "2000-McCain" who could have enacted such effectual policies? Alas, the 2008 John McCain and the 2000 John McCain are unrelated.
 
I don't think many of you watched McCain in 2000. This myth that he was "thoughtful, insightful, articulate, humble and full of grace" is just that, a myth. That primary was knockdown, drag out, full partisan campaign from both ends. He actually went against his party more after 2000 than before.

This election was a referendum on George W Bush. I'm surprised he got the amount of votes he did.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
I am not so sure about that; given the current circumstances, I feel Obama was the better choice. I truly wish the "2000-John McCain" had run, though: He would have been an actual politician of change. I honestly feel that under a McCain reign, the power of the executive branch would have been realized the fullest. Can you envision another politician aside from the "2000-McCain" who could have enacted such effectual policies? Alas, the 2008 John McCain and the 2000 John McCain are unrelated.
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i completely agree. im pretty liberal, however i like where john maccain USED to stand. then, he basically set out to win this election doing whatever was necessary. had he been the old mccain and chosen a solid vp, i would have had a VERY hard time choosing.
 
rolandajoint said:
i completely agree. im pretty liberal, however i like where john maccain USED to stand. then, he basically set out to win this election doing whatever was necessary. had he been the old mccain and chosen a solid vp, i would have had a VERY hard time choosing.
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How did he used to stand? Considering you're 20, I would like to know at age 12 how much you followed John McCain.
 
Kruger said:
How did he used to stand? Considering you're 20, I would like to know at age 12 how much you followed John McCain.
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There are these things called history books. Sometimes, when bored, we read them. :icon_lol: *kisses*
 
suncloud said:
the problem with giving poor people money, is the same problem giving money to panhandlers - you don't know if the money goes for food or drugs.

there's nothing wrong with giving the less fortunate money. the problem remains that when you do so, you are enabling poor people to be wasteful with what they are given, because they can simply get more. as a government, its impossible to distinguish the truly needy from the stupid and greedy.
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this^^^

you don't know where this money is going, and there's a decent chance it's not gonna be a prudent investment.
 
Kruger said:
How did he used to stand? Considering you're 20, I would like to know at age 12 how much you followed John McCain.
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well i didnt follow him in 6th grade. nor in 8th. however being in debate in high school, i had access to lexis nexis. and i liked him because he was not the cookie cutter conservative he is from this election. i liked that he was less conservative, and working with democrats to compromise. and ive always admired him because of his history in vietnam.

and had he not chosen palin, i probably would have given him more consideration.

and now ill let you tear everything i just said apart, and only read the rest of the posts in this thread cuz you have proven to have a wealth and knowledge about politics and economics, not to mention you have 15 years of life experience over me.
:cheers:
 
Mulletsoldier said:
I am not so sure about that; given the current circumstances, I feel Obama was the better choice. I truly wish the "2000-John McCain" had run, though: He would have been an actual politician of change. I honestly feel that under a McCain reign, the power of the executive branch would have been realized the fullest. Can you envision another politician aside from the "2000-McCain" who could have enacted such effectual policies? Alas, the 2008 John McCain and the 2000 John McCain are unrelated.
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I think the 2008 mccain was "the mccain to get the nomination, and to get and keep the base energized to give a chance" and I fully believe in office he would have been the 2000 mccain. Hard to say for sure of course.
 
EasyEJL said:
I think the 2008 mccain was "the mccain to get the nomination, and to get and keep the base energized to give a chance" and I fully believe in office he would have been the 2000 mccain. Hard to say for sure of course.
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man i wanted to believe that too. i think i would have most likely voted for mccain if that had been the case. and with a different vp. i just guess im tired of a conservative agenda in the white house, and like everyone else, voted for "change", whatever that might mean.

i do believe that either candidate would have been better than the status quo. but, like others have said, obama was the better choice, IMO. lesser of two evils, if you will.
 
whiskers said:
Did ANYONE on here vote third party?
Or did you all throw votes at the CFR whores
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why waste a vote? When a 3rd party can claim more than a single house of representative or senate seat, or more than one governorship then they begin to have a chance in a presidential election, or becoming a real alternative to the dems + repubs. But in a presidential race right now, its a throwaway vote, or often a vote helpful to the candidate who is FURTHER away from your ideology
 
rolandajoint said:
well i didnt follow him in 6th grade. nor in 8th. however being in debate in high school, i had access to lexis nexis. and i liked him because he was not the cookie cutter conservative he is from this election. i liked that he was less conservative, and working with democrats to compromise. and ive always admired him because of his history in vietnam.

:
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He was anything but a cookie cutter conservative...in fact, he wasn't even close to conservative in this election. He was more a populist.

I could roll off issue after issue but its pointless.


People voted for "change". Richard Davis was correct...this election really wasn't about the issues.
 
EasyEJL said:
why waste a vote? When a 3rd party can claim more than a single house of representative or senate seat, or more than one governorship then they begin to have a chance in a presidential election, or becoming a real alternative to the dems + repubs. But in a presidential race right now, its a throwaway vote, or often a vote helpful to the candidate who is FURTHER away from your ideology
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It is not a wasted vote and frankly I'm offended you mentioned that. How is a third party movement every supposed to gain traction if people don't vote for them because they would rather aid a mainstream candidate as to avoid the other? And for the record, there IS more than one senate seat occupied by an independent.
 
Rugger said:
It is not a wasted vote and frankly I'm offended you mentioned that. How is a third party movement every supposed to gain traction if people don't vote for them because they would rather aid a mainstream candidate as to avoid the other? And for the record, there IS more than one senate seat occupied by an independent.
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They surely don't gain traction by a 0.001% of popular vote. They have to work harder at local and state levels, as well as gaining more overall seats in the house + senate. And yes there are more than 1 independent, but 1 is Joe Lieberman and so not exactly a 3rd party candidate.

For a 3rd party to have some reality of a chance, they have to grow over time, and gain recognition as whatever their name is. Ralph Nader as well known as he was never got a significant fraction of the national vote, so a vote for him was always a wasted vote, and was a piece of why bush beat gore... And i'd have to guess that of the two most nader supporters would have preferred gore :)
 
There is essential no difference between Bush, Obama, and McCain. (refer to the vid I posted earlier)

And do you really think your state is gonna come down to a one vote diff between the two candidates? come on.

I know a third party currently doesnt stand a chance, but the more faith you put into them by adding to their vote count each election, the more likely others are, others like you, to think they're not waisting their vote. Hopefully one day a third party will get big enough to get the insane amount of federal funding the repulicans and democrats get.


I voted Nader. Not that I'm a huge fan (and not that I'm not ha), but I just couldnt vote for Baldwin. The Independent Party is WAY to "God and Country!" for me.




Here's a wacky idea, if you actually want change, vote for a candidate that isnt sucking Israels c0ck. You'll see some big changes. But no, we stick with these Fu(king f@get status quo A holes.
 
EasyEJL said:
I think the 2008 mccain was "the mccain to get the nomination, and to get and keep the base energized to give a chance" and I fully believe in office he would have been the 2000 mccain. Hard to say for sure of course.
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You know it's funny, when I said that a few months ago a lot of you disagreed quite vigorously. John McCain in 2000 was the republican I could vote for. John McCain in 2008 was was a actor playing a role that I don't think he was comfortable with.

:bruce3:
 
Mulletsoldier said:
...
That particular John McCain would have been a far greater President than Barack Obama could ever aspire to be, IMO.
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I respect your opinion, Mullet, but this is very speculative, and can never be proven!
 
The Presidency is a highly revered institution in the US. It is disconcerting that some Americans themselves are doing their best to disparage the personification of that institution, even before he assumes that office. I think people should give him at least a year in office, before attempting any objective judgment. The challenges facing the US today are truly enormous in all respects. Only bi-partisanship and a deep commitment to effective change can suffice. Mr. McCain should demonstrate his love for is country now, and ensure his die-hard followers show support for the President-elect. Roughly the same way that Mrs. Clinton helped to pacify her followers after she lost the Democratic nomination.

I have no doubt there are one million ways to spin my comments out of context, but that is irrelevant. Americans must finally see themselves once more as one people, not red, white, or whatever alternative colour or combination of colours. There are few alternative options for success!
 
strategicmove said:
The Presidency is a highly revered institution in the US. It is disconcerting that some Americans themselves are doing their best to disparage the personification of that institution, even before he assumes that office. I think people should give him at least a year in office, before attempting any objective judgment. The challenges facing the US today are truly enormous in all respects. Only bi-partisanship and a deep commitment to effective change can suffice. Mr. McCain should demonstrate his love for is country now, and ensure his die-hard followers show support for the President-elect. Roughly the same way that Mrs. Clinton helped to pacify her followers after she lost the Democratic nomination.

I have no doubt there are one million ways to spin my comments out of context, but that is irrelevant. Americans must finally see themselves once more as one people, not red, white, or whatever alternative colour or combination of colours. There are few alternative options for success!
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Apparently you haven't watched much of US politics in the past.
 
EasyEJL said:
Apparently you haven't watched much of US politics in the past.
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An outrageous speculation that hardly adds value to anything. You'll be surprised to know you do not know more than I do about US politics and history. The difference between us is that I am more open-minded!
 
I personally think McCain will help in the senate and try to bring unity. However, the division sadly is quite deep in this country. I am hopeful that President Obama can lead. Instead of hope, I will call it cautious optimism
 
Reaper329 said:
I personally think McCain will help in the senate and try to bring unity. However, the division sadly is quite deep in this country. I am hopeful that President Obama can lead. Instead of hope, I will call it cautious optimism
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I agree. The ball is in Obama's court right now. The Dems have control. Will they play it division or unity? It all comes back to which Obama comes out as president.
 
I didn't go to college and I only spent a short time in high school. For me, school was a waste of my time. For a living, I help businesses move forward in various ways. I do competitive analysis. I market their websites with search engine optimization. I'm also considered a visionary. There's really no simple name for what I do. I simply figured out what I enjoy doing and created my own path. I didn't follow anyone or anything - I just went out and did - and made a name for myself. New clients find me. I've worked with and am currently working with organizations that everyone is familiar with..

Just figure out what you want to do with your life - and strive to be the best at it. With enough drive and ambition, it'll be difficult to find yourself anything but at least very comfortable in life...

NateWA said:
No prob man. And I am curious what you do for a living cause Im still in college...
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strategicmove said:
An outrageous speculation that hardly adds value to anything. You'll be surprised to know you do not know more than I do about US politics and history. The difference between us is that I am more open-minded!
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A mind too open allows all sorts of nonsense to pour in and doesn't look at it critically. And your knowledge of american politics from afar without being a part of it is about as important as your knowledge of being an astronaut.
 
EasyEJL said:
A mind too open allows all sorts of nonsense to pour in and doesn't look at it critically. And your knowledge of american politics from afar without being a part of it is about as important as your knowledge of being an astronaut.
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Continue to stew in your ignorance! Self-proclaimed experts like you with extremist views are a major menace to intelligent discourse. Every comment you make establishes and reinforces your dangerously skewed perspective. When I count individuals with a passable knowledge of politics, American or not, you do not even come close to qualifying. As for your astronaut analogy, it is as laughable as it is nonsensical! Physically residing in the USA is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for an understanding of American politics. I am sure, though, that this is beyond the scope of your comprehension.
 
Enough with the personal attacks guys. Come on........

Heres some vulgar humor. IT may be too vulgar actually.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjt_gV050ek"]YouTube - 535 Employees From Hell - Guy From Boston[/ame]
 
strategicmove said:
Continue to stew in your ignorance! Self-proclaimed experts like you with extremist views are a major menace to intelligent discourse. Every comment you make establishes and reinforces your dangerously skewed perspective. When I count individuals with a passable knowledge of politics, American or not, you do not even come close to qualifying. As for your astronaut analogy, it is as laughable as it is nonsensical! Physically residing in the USA is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for an understanding of American politics. I am sure, though, that this is beyond the scope of your comprehension.
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My apologies for these comments, Easy! Sound rather harsh! Not really my style to react like that. :cheers:
 
strategicmove said:
Continue to stew in your ignorance! Self-proclaimed experts like you with extremist views are a major menace to intelligent discourse. Every comment you make establishes and reinforces your dangerously skewed perspective. When I count individuals with a passable knowledge of politics, American or not, you do not even come close to qualifying. As for your astronaut analogy, it is as laughable as it is nonsensical! Physically residing in the USA is neither a necessary nor a sufficient condition for an understanding of American politics. I am sure, though, that this is beyond the scope of your comprehension.
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Dangerous? Ignorant? Extremist?


You clearly show you have no realistic grasp on politics in this nation. The Presidency is a highly revered institution in the US? Since when? Inserting cameroons into the vaginal crevice of an intern?

You simply are the epitome of a foreigner who is looking from the outside in with a very filtered, one sided viewpoint without any real understanding of real life situations that drive American politics. Its very apparent in several statements you have made here and in other threads.
 
strategicmove said:
The Presidency is a highly revered institution in the US. It is disconcerting that some Americans themselves are doing their best to disparage the personification of that institution, even before he assumes that office. I think people should give him at least a year in office, before attempting any objective judgment. The challenges facing the US today are truly enormous in all respects. Only bi-partisanship and a deep commitment to effective change can suffice. Mr. McCain should demonstrate his love for is country now, and ensure his die-hard followers show support for the President-elect. Roughly the same way that Mrs. Clinton helped to pacify her followers after she lost the Democratic nomination.

I have no doubt there are one million ways to spin my comments out of context, but that is irrelevant. Americans must finally see themselves once more as one people, not red, white, or whatever alternative colour or combination of colours. There are few alternative options for success!
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The problems we are in right now will take much longer than a year to fix. If you look back at how long it took the economy to restabilize from the great depression, people would understand that.

Instead, people will do just that. Discontent from their loss of their candidate stubbornly allow Obama a year and then continue with their non-support. I suppose it would be the same deal had McCain won as well.

What isn't fair is people already speculating about how he will govern without him beginning office.
 
DAdams91982 said:
Holy Sh*t... how does NO ONE else find that video funny? That has milk coming out my damn nose!!!

Adams
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hardly a knee slapper. it would definitely to be interesting to see the breakdown of who holds each of those records and titles.

regardless, politicians are shitty people no matter what party. mccain, obama, pelosi, bush, kerry, etc etc etc. every one of em has dirt and none of them are truly honest people. i think we can all agree on that one aspect of politics.
 
Emerge said:
The problems we are in right now will take much longer than a year to fix. If you look back at how long it took the economy to restabilize from the great depression, people would understand that.
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The great depression was elongated and exasperated by poor economic management by the government. New proposals by Obama include an across the board tax raise for anyone making above $50,000, strengthening Union influence while eliminating secret ballot elections for Unions, and increasing regulation across the board on business. None of these proposals will have a positive effect on American business, and could serve to make a bad situation much worse.

Instead, people will do just that. Discontent from their loss of their candidate stubbornly allow Obama a year and then continue with their non-support. I suppose it would be the same deal had McCain won as well.
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Depending on the attitude Obama takes. If he takes a centrist viewpoint and does not try to be a divisive force in American politics then he can avoid creating true division. There will always be the far right that doesn't like Obama, but if he has moderate policies, he won't lose the moderate right and middle of the road people.

What isn't fair is people already speculating about how he will govern without him beginning office.
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Isn't that why he had a campaign platform to begin with? Most are speculating based on things he said he would do and his previous voting record.
 
Zero Tolerance said:
I didn't go to college and I only spent a short time in high school. For me, school was a waste of my time. For a living, I help businesses move forward in various ways. I do competitive analysis. I market their websites with search engine optimization. I'm also considered a visionary. There's really no simple name for what I do. I simply figured out what I enjoy doing and created my own path. I didn't follow anyone or anything - I just went out and did - and made a name for myself. New clients find me. I've worked with and am currently working with organizations that everyone is familiar with..

Just figure out what you want to do with your life - and strive to be the best at it. With enough drive and ambition, it'll be difficult to find yourself anything but at least very comfortable in life...
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That's awesome. There is nothing better than doing what you love and becoming very successful with it. Hopefully someday I will figure that out for myself as well.
 
Right, but who knows what exactly will pass. The democratic party didn't get enough to earn a filibuster. So, it's not like anything he says goes. I am very interested in seeing who else he appoints around him in office.

Based on his previous voting record (just from videos I've seen and little tidbits here and there) he doesn't seem to be too much different from McCain. I've also read that McCain isn't as conservative as most other republicans. Which leads me to believe that Obama is closer to the center than most might think.

All presidents deserve some initial support, don't you think? ****, even Bush got the initial support.
 
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