POLL -- CARDIO ON EMPTY STOMACH IN MORNING

[8pack]

make any difference if you put epherdrine in the mix[to realease fatty acids?]

On the one hand it raises your metabolism, on the other hand it also affects glucose metabolism. So I would go stimulant free - ouch if you are a regular coffee drinker

 

[8pack]

make any difference if you put epherdrine in the mix[to realease fatty acids?]

Another way of looking at it is your body is burning fat at it's maximal (natural) rate when you are asleep. The hormones that get you into this zone are still hanging around when you first wake up so take advantage of your body not fully 'waking up' hormonally. That is I think stimulants are a bad idea for AM cardio.

 

[Ninjo]

For those who believe in a pre-workout drink prior to morning cardio, which would be more beneficial: a whey isolate shake (i.e. approx. 24g of protein) vs straight BCAAs (i.e. XTEND, EXCELL, etc.) and why. Thanks.

 

[scott72]

Protien shake in water ... 30-45min moderate intensity treadmill or bike. DONE! Tried and True!!

Sprt

This isn't empty stomach cardio...Not saying it doesn't work for you, but it's not in a fasted state in your consuming a shake..

Water and BCAA's prior to fasted cardio is golden imo...

 

[Ninjo]

Water and BCAA's prior to fasted cardio is golden imo...

How much BCAA's is optimal? I take Xtend/Xcell; is a single serving sufficient to minimize risk of muscle loss?

 

[scott72]

How much BCAA's is optimal? I take Xtend/Xcell; is a single serving sufficient to minimize risk of muscle loss?

I consume around 20-30 g's twice a day centered around my workouts..

 

[Steveoph]

I have to say when I did a morning run 2 minutes after getting out of bed, for about 45-60 minutes at moderate intensity I'd never lost fat so efficiently in my life. I was also touring Europe and gyms were practically unavailable so I lost muscle mass, but it's more because I couldn't work out. Morning cardio works wonders for fat loss IMO

 

[SwordBurn]

What's a good cardio activity that you can:

- do at home
- do w/o out buying a machine

?


p.s. sex doesn't count...it just wastes all my supps *cough*

 

[Supa Freek 420]

Running and jumping rope

 

[chaos254]

Running and jumping rope

jumping rope is an awesome workout!

 

[Nutz]

Ok, it involves buying equipment, but I found boxing in three minute rounds, with a break in between was excellent morning cardio. bet you can get a Heavy bag and gloves for about $100 - 150$ on ebay that would do the trick. bas ruttens tapes are quite good for this too.

bit of an aside, but I found it a great aerobic workout with some impact / strength and confidence benefits

 

[THETEST]

Good point - the "cardio" is really a matter of buying into a specific duration of raising your heart rate to a specific level. That reves up your metabolism so you can burn fat - it is that simple. There are many ways to accomplish this - lining up women to have %&%$ with for example. Now two ways in general to achieve this - SLOW - treadmill type work with a 65% of heart rate max for 40-50 min. OR - like the previous note - High Intensity Interval Training. 20-30 min with your heart rate bouncing up into the 85%+ range in intervals. Scientific research supports HIIT as the better way to retain muscle and lose fat in the long run - However, I have not seen studies where the low intensity twice a day was compaired. Within 24 hrs they burned the same about of fat - but the longer term testing showed HIIT winning out.

 

[THETEST]

1st thing in the morning BEFORE breakfast is the best way to burn fat - and taking some protein just means it has to be digested - I prefer taking amino acids to save muscle - straight BCAAs, L-Glutamine, and some L-Carnitine. Even Stamin02 (cenitrillium malitate) is great.

 

[THETEST]

Hi 8-pack - Several plausible mechanisms for a beneficial effect of coffee on glucose metabolism exist. Coffee has been shown to be a major contributor to the total in vitro antioxidant capacity of the diet, which may be relevant as oxidative stress can contribute to the development of type 2 diabetes. Coffee is the major source of the phenol chlorogenic acid. Intake of chlorogenic acid has been shown to reduce glucose concentrations in rats, and intake of quinides, degradation products of chlorogenic acids, increased insulin sensitivity in rats. Chlorogenic acid contributes to the antioxidant effects of coffee, may reduce hepatic glucose output through inhibition of glucose-6-phosphatase, and may improve tissue mineral distribution through its action as a metal chelator. In addition, chlorogenic acid acts as a competitive inhibitor of glucose absorption in the intestine. Indeed, decaffeinated coffee seemed to delay intestinal absorption of glucose and increased glucagon-like peptide-1 concentrations in an intervention study in humans. Glucagon-like peptide-1 is well known for its beneficial effects on glucose-induced insulin secretion and insulin action. This effect may explain the observation that higher coffee consumption was associated with lower postload, rather than fasting, glucose concentrations.

 

[WSUstudent]

Bottom line is keep the workouts to less then or equal to 45% VO2 Max for the best fat burning results that wont destroy muscle mass.

Balance of carbohydrate and lipid utilization during exercise: the "crossover" concept

G. A. Brooks and J. Mercier
Department of Human Biodynamics, University of California, Berkeley 94720.

The "crossover" concept represents a theoretical means by which one can understand the effects of exercise intensity and prior endurance training on the balance of carbohydrate (CHO) and lipid metabolism during sustained exercise. According to the crossover concept, endurance training results in muscular biochemical adaptations that enhance lipid oxidation as well as decrease the sympathetic nervous system responses to given submaximal exercise stresses. These adaptations promote lipid oxidation during mild- to moderate-intensity exercise. In contrast, increases in exercise intensity are conceived to increase contraction-induced muscle glycogenolysis, alter the pattern of fiber type recruitment, and increase sympathetic nervous system activity. Therefore the pattern of substrate utilization in an individual at any point in time depends on the interaction between exercise intensity-induced responses (which increase CHO utilization) and endurance training-induced responses (which promote lipid oxidation). The crossover point is the power output at which energy from CHO-derived fuels predominates over energy from lipids, with further increases in power eliciting a relative increment in CHO utilization and a decrement in lipid oxidation. The contemporary literature contains data indicating that, after endurance training, exercise at low intensities (< or = 45% maximal O2 uptake) is accomplished with lipid as the main substrate. In contrast, the literature also contains reports that are interpreted to indicate that during hard-intensity exercise (approximately 75% maximal O2 uptake) CHO is the predominant substrate. Seen within the context of the crossover concept these apparently divergent results are, in fact, consistent.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)




Protein Ingestion Prior to Strength Exercise Affects Blood Hormones and Metabolism.

Applied Sciences
Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise. 37(11):1990-1997, November 2005.
HULMI, JUHA J. 1; VOLEK, JEFF S. 2; SELANNE, HARRI 3; MERO, ANTTI A. 1

Abstract:
Purpose: The effects of protein consumption before strength training session on blood hormones, energy metabolites, RER, and excess postexercise oxygen consumption (EPOC) were examined.

Methods: Ten resistance-trained young men consumed either a 25 g of whey and caseinate proteins (PROT) or a noncaloric placebo (P) in a liquid form 30 min before a heavy strength training session (STS) in a crossover design separated by at least 7 d. STS lasted 50 min and included 5 x 1 RM squats, 3 x 10 RM squats and 4 x 10 RM leg presses with 2-, 3-, and 2-min recoveries, respectively. A protein-carbohydrate supplement was consumed after STS in both trials. Venous blood samples were collected before, during, and after STS and oxygen consumption before and after STS.

Results: Serum growth hormone (GH), testosterone, and free fatty acids (FFA) were significantly (P << 0.05) higher in P compared with PROT 5 min after an STS. The calculated area under curve (AUC) of the serum insulin response during an STS was significantly (P < 0.001) higher in PROT compared with P. The EPOC value from 90 to 120 min after an STS was significantly greater in the PROT condition compared with P (P = 0.01), and PROT treatment had a significantly higher RER 2 h postexercise (P = 0.04). The AUC of serum FFA during STS correlated significantly and negatively with RER 10-30 min after STS (r = -0.53, P = 0.02).

Conclusions: Consuming 25 g of whey and caseinate proteins 30 min before an STS significantly decreases serum GH, testosterone, and FFA levels, and increases serum insulin during an STS. Furthermore, the pre-STS protein increased EPOC and RER significantly during 2-h recovery after STS.






Fatty acid oxidation is directly regulated by carbohydrate metabolism during exercise
E. F. Coyle, A. E. Jeukendrup, A. J. Wagenmakers and W. H. Saris
Department of Human Biology, University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.

We determined whether increased glycolytic flux from hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia directly reduces fatty acid oxidation during exercise. Fatty acid oxidation rates were measured during constant-rate intravenous infusion of trace amounts of a long-chain fatty acid ([1-13C]palmitate; Pal) vs. a medium-chain fatty acid ([1-13C]octanoate; Oct). Six endurance-trained men cycled for 40 min at 50% of maximal O2 uptake 1) after an overnight fast ("fasting") and 2) after ingestion of 1.4 g/kg of glucose at 60 min and again 10 min before exercise (Glc). Glc caused hyperinsulinemia, a preexercise blood glucose of 6 mM, and a 34% reduction in total fat oxidation during exercise due to an approximately equal reduction in oxidation of plasma-free fatty acids (FFA) and intramuscular triglycerides (all P < 0.05). Oxidation of Pal was significantly reduced during Glc compared with fast (i.e., 70.0 +/- 4.1 vs. 86.0 +/- 1.9% of tracer infusion rate; P < 0.05). However, Glc had no effect on Oct oxidation, which is apparently not limited by mitochondrial transport. Furthermore, Glc reduced plasma FFA appearance 36% (P < 0.05), indicating a coordination of effects on adipose tissue and muscle. In summary, substrate oxidation during exercise can be regulated by increased glycolytic flux that is accompanied by a direct inhibition of long-chain fatty acid oxidation. These observations indicate that carbohydrate availability can directly regulate fat oxidation during exercise.

So in a nutshell, with the second abstract there, if you ingest protein prior to a workout it blunts GH, and it also prevents mobiliztion of fatty acids PWo as well?

 

[THETEST]

Sounds like muscle gain and fat loss goals are met by coming into the workout on an empty stomach - with the exception of some amino acids and possibly some stimulants to get you going and keep you from losing muscle. too bad they dont speak english

 

[WSUstudent]

LOL ok I thought that's what is said. Thanks a lot man.

 

[THETEST]

The authors systematically reviewed all available epidemiological evidence on the relation between habitual coffee consumption and risk of type 2 diabetes. The authors conclude that their systematic review supports the hypothesis that habitual coffee consumption is associated with a substantially lower risk of type 2 diabetes. Longer-term intervention studies of coffee consumption and glucose metabolism are warranted to examine the mechanisms underlying the relationship between coffee consumption and type 2 diabetes.

References (abridged):

1. Nathan DM. Long-term complications of diabetes mellitus. N Engl J Med. 1993;328:1676-1685

2. Wild S, Roglic G, Green A, Sicree R, King H. Globalprevalence of diabetes: estimates for the year 2000 and projections for 2030. Diabetes Care. 2004;27:1047-1053

3. Tuomilehto J, Lindstrom J, Eriksson JG, et al. Prevention of type 2 diabetes mellitus by changes in lifestyle among subjects with impaired glucose tolerance. N Engl J Med. 2001;344:1343-1350

4. Knowler WC, Barrett-Connor E, Fowler SE, et al. Reduction in the incidence of type 2 diabetes with lifestyle intervention or metformin. N Engl J Med. 2002;346:393-403

5. Schaefer B. Coffee consumption and type 2 diabetes mellitus [letter]. Ann Intern Med. 2004;141:321

J. Am. Med. Assoc. Invalid Link Removed

 

[THETEST]

no problem - So if your fat - drink coffee before hand your morning cardio - want to lose more fat - ??? eat fish, EFA oils(10%), and lower your carbs toward 20% of your calories - slowly over 6-8 weeks

 

[carriong]

fast weightloss

It depends on bf%. Someone overweight I would suggest cardio in the AM on an empty tank, those at lower bf% (single digit) I would suggest 25g protein shake about a half hour before to prevent muscle breakdown.

Hi I entered a weightloss contest and am looking for information on how to quickly lose body weight in the next 5 weeks. HELP!!
I entered the contest last week at 301lbs and need to lose atleast 30lbs before May 7th!

 

[carriong]

Hi I entered a weightloss contest and am looking for information on how to quickly lose body weight in the next 5 weeks. HELP!!
I entered the contest last week at 301lbs and need to lose atleast 30lbs before May 7th!

 

[8pack]

Sorry for the absence. Great info here, I am definitely a believer in coffee and caffein both. What mentioned earlier w/ respect to glucose metabolism (normally a good thing) is that the idea of AM cardio is that you try to minimize glucose metabolism. Your body is in a state that is ideal for burning fat 1st thing (high FFA concentrations in the blood). I feel that stimulants and glucose metabolism up regulation (of which it appears that coffee is both)would be counter productive for this very specific type of low intensity work out designed to rely heavily on FFA. Hopefully my thoughts came across a little more clearly here.
Also the quoted article talks alot about glucose absorption in the gut, not really of much importance when exercising on an empty stomach
again thanks for the thoughts, it is always good to try and get a deeper understanding - I know I have plenty of room for improvement here.
[as a disclaimer this I am not a nutrition expert - just someone who finds it very interesting, as well as pertinent]

Hi 8-pack - Several plausible mechanisms for a beneficial effect of coffee on glucose metabolism exist. Coffee has been shown to be a major contributor to the total in vitro antioxidant capacity of the diet, which may be relevant as oxidative stress can contribute to the development of type 2 diabetes. Coffee is the major source of the phenol chlorogenic acid. Intake of chlorogenic acid has been shown to reduce glucose concentrations in rats, and intake of quinides, degradation products of chlorogenic acids, increased insulin sensitivity in rats. Chlorogenic acid contributes to the antioxidant effects of coffee, may reduce hepatic glucose output through inhibition of glucose-6-phosphatase, and may improve tissue mineral distribution through its action as a metal chelator. In addition, chlorogenic acid acts as a competitive inhibitor of glucose absorption in the intestine. Indeed, decaffeinated coffee seemed to delay intestinal absorption of glucose and increased glucagon-like peptide-1 concentrations in an intervention study in humans. Glucagon-like peptide-1 is well known for its beneficial effects on glucose-induced insulin secretion and insulin action. This effect may explain the observation that higher coffee consumption was associated with lower postload, rather than fasting, glucose concentrations.

 

[carriong]

Sorry for the absence. Great info here, I am definitely a believer in coffee and caffein both. What mentioned earlier w/ respect to glucose metabolism (normally a good thing) is that the idea of AM cardio is that you try to minimize glucose metabolism. Your body is in a state that is ideal for burning fat 1st thing (high FFA concentrations in the blood). I feel that stimulants and glucose metabolism up regulation (of which it appears that coffee is both)would be counter productive for this very specific type of low intensity work out designed to rely heavily on FFA. Hopefully my thoughts came across a little more clearly here.
Also the quoted article talks alot about glucose absorption in the gut, not really of much importance when exercising on an empty stomach
again thanks for the thoughts, it is always good to try and get a deeper understanding - I know I have plenty of room for improvement here.
[as a disclaimer this I am not a nutrition expert - just someone who finds it very interesting, as well as pertinent]

Yes great info here....absolutely! I am going to try and do cardio in the morning atleast 4 times a week, then do another hour after work.
Im going to also try the cabbage diet...has anyone ever heard of this diet and does it really work!
Basically what it is, is a soup containing cabbage and other veggies including brown rice and you eat this for 7 days and as much as you want!!
Ill try it and keep everyone posted! I will start tomorrow4/12/07
G-

 

[SureShot]

I have tried both low intensity and running sprints in the morning. If you are trying to do a recomp i would say go with the low intensity cardio so that it doesnt interfere with your weight training. However, if you want to melt fat off fast, sprints in the am on an empty stomach do the trick. Combine this with full body workouts 3x a week ala hst, you will be one ripped dude.

 

[carriong]

I have tried both low intensity and running sprints in the morning. If you are trying to do a recomp i would say go with the low intensity cardio so that it doesnt interfere with your weight training. However, if you want to melt fat off fast, sprints in the am on an empty stomach do the trick. Combine this with full body workouts 3x a week ala hst, you will be one ripped dude.

Hey SureShot thanks for the tip, much appreciated!!
Yeah I have been doing the AM cardio and it has helped me drastically!!
What supplement is out there for appetite control??
Gerry-

 

[moklepaul]

Just an update from last fall, I tried the AM HIIT thing out, but I didn't lose weight like i thought i would. I lost more. Much more. I'm a life long convert now

 

[LT*]

Why stick to one or the other? I've been doing intervals on the ellipticle for 20 minutes followed by another 20 minutes of heavy bag work/ab work at lower intensity. This is never done while fasting though. I take 10g Bcaa's/24g Super carb with 2g Citmal pre, and then another of these minus the supercarb during. I wait about 30 minutes after training for my post workout shake (this contains no carbs). I can only do AM cardio once a week, so the other two sessions are done after work, with the same nutritional protocol minus the supercarb altogether. Results have been very good over the past few months of this. I'm very close to 10% BF, down from about 16%. This, with 3 full body lifting sessions a week (hybrid HST) has allowed me to keep virtually all my LBM too.

 

[scott72]

I've just never gotten into morning fasted cardio...Upset my stomach..I need to feed the machine before I crank up the heart rate..

 

[carriong]

Why stick to one or the other? I've been doing intervals on the ellipticle for 20 minutes followed by another 20 minutes of heavy bag work/ab work at lower intensity. This is never done while fasting though. I take 10g Bcaa's/24g Super carb with 2g Citmal pre, and then another of these minus the supercarb during. I wait about 30 minutes after training for my post workout shake (this contains no carbs). I can only do AM cardio once a week, so the other two sessions are done after work, with the same nutritional protocol minus the supercarb altogether. Results have been very good over the past few months of this. I'm very close to 10% BF, down from about 16%. This, with 3 full body lifting sessions a week (hybrid HST) has allowed me to keep virtually all my LBM too.

That sounds like its working very well.
I just started like two months ago at 301.2lbs with the am cardio consisting of either biking or elyptical training and evening light workouts or road cycling and am at 273lbs.
My goal is to be at 200lbs within another 6 months.
Also were doing a weght loss comptetion here at work and the pot is $1400 and I'll need to weigh 240lbs by June 13th but I dont think i'll make it.
Any good fat burners/ appetite control supplements out there that work well????
Thanks!!

 

[Fireproof]

Good discussion and the subject of fasted versus fed cardio, as well as low-intensity versus HIIT cardio has been hotly debated.

I do believe there's a place for most of it (although I do question the merits of fasted cardio...)

At any rate, here are a couple great articles that are worth a read before you decide on anything.

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[EasyEJL]

Although I picked empty stomach in the poll, I have to question whether I can call it empty with all the supplements

 

[carriong]

Although I picked empty stomach in the poll, I have to question whether I can call it empty with all the supplements

LOL, You got a point there!!!

 

[EasyEJL]

Ok, it involves buying equipment, but I found boxing in three minute rounds, with a break in between was excellent morning cardio. bet you can get a Heavy bag and gloves for about $100 - 150$ on ebay that would do the trick. bas ruttens tapes are quite good for this too.

bit of an aside, but I found it a great aerobic workout with some impact / strength and confidence benefits

Dang, I hadn't thought of that, it would be great hung in my garage, or maybe one of the ones on a stand vs ceiling hung. I would enjoy the heck out of that, and keeping it in the garage it would be hot all the freakin time (I'm in Florida) so sweating it up from the first minute.

 

[Compressiceps]

The heavy bag is awesome but it will wear you out especially w/footwork

 

[SureShot]

this debate will probably go on forever but here are some things i have tried: If you want to burn fat faster to get ripped up=sprints/HIIT, if you want to maintain maximum muscle mass, while losing fat, why not do 30min low intensity after your resistance training? I have done both, and i was definitely more muscular doing low intensity after resistance training, but it took me 10 weeks to get to single digit bodyfat from about 12-13%. When i did HIIT, or just did full body workouts with minimal rest between sets (only rest being unloading and loading whatever piece of equipment i was using) i ripped up faster, maintained strength, but seemed to have a different, more athletic look, was slightly thinner looking in clothes, and it only took about 7 weeks.

 

[Swirv]

I tried an AM Fasted Brisk Walk today for the first time and as hard as it was to wake up, it was definitely well worth it. As soon as I got outside I just felt so much more energized. All day so far I have had a great amount of energy, I haven't nodded off once while at work today!!! lol

I think I might start the morning Fasted Brisk walk every day and on Tues/Thurs/Sat do a Morning fasted low intensity cardio and after work go to the gym for a moderate intensity cardio. Is this a smart idea??

 

[themandaloria]

Take some wraath on an empty stomach!!!

 

[ItsHectic]

So in a nutshell, with the second abstract there, if you ingest protein prior to a workout it blunts GH, and it also prevents mobiliztion of fatty acids PWo as well?

Theres 1 flaw to that study, blood samples were taken before the workout, not before the protein.
Protein significantly increases GH levels by itself.

 

[CryingEmo]

The problem with anecdotal evidence is that everyone is different. I see some people recommending that AM fasted cardio sprints are superior to low intensity cardio. Maybe it is for that person, or maybe they'd lose fat is they just thought about it with their blessed metabolism.

I would do AM cardio, the ***** that it is, but I'm just not sure it's going to be effective. Basically, when I wake up and do cardio, I don't feel that great afterwards, and it leaves me less likely to productively lift or do more cardio later on. If I sleep in goto work, then I can do everything optimally.


I also question if Leuceine should be used solo instead of all 3 BCAA's. I guess it depends on how serious you are about weight loss.


Some people seem to be carb tolerant, and others are not. I also wonder if this has to do with the insulin spike from eating carbs. Some have a huge spike, and others don't which is why they can handle it.


So many things to ponder...

 

[MuscleRocker]

Definitely AM on an empty stomach!

Not only is it easier to run on an empty stomach, doing cardio in the AM is great for those of us who will be reluctant to do it later in the day. I hate cardio, so I like to get it over with first thing. If you MUST have something to eat beforehand, I would suggest just a protein shake.

 

[carriong]

Not only is it easier to run on an empty stomach, doing cardio in the AM is great for those of us who will be reluctant to do it later in the day. I hate cardio, so I like to get it over with first thing. If you MUST have something to eat beforehand, I would suggest just a protein shake.

I couldnt agree with you anymore on that!

 

[Jay Madden]

Short duration (<=20 min) HIIT cardio seems to work quite well without adversely affecting muscle tissue. A protein shake with some carbs and a little fat really seems to help with the body recomp as well.

 

[davidcyt]

after read all this articles, i am still a little confused(sorry, my first langue is not english)
i plan to do a cardio on a empty stomach tomorrow around 70%HR 50-60 mins,
i will sip some BCAA before and during cardio.is that ok?

 

[waimoku]

Yes BCAAs before and during are good. If you can get Leucine only, that is even better since won't be burned for food, Isoleucine and Valine can be burned for fuel and you won't get their benefit.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Yes BCAAs before and during are good. If you can get Leucine only, that is even better since won't be burned for food, Isoleucine and Valine can be burned for fuel and you won't get their benefit.

Do you have a reference for Leucine not being used as fuel? I've never heard that and it sounds intresting.

TF

 

[waimoku]

Although it is not until later on in the thread check out this discussion on BCAAs being used as fuel:
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[Force of Green]

Do you have a reference for Leucine not being used as fuel? I've never heard that and it sounds intresting.

TF

Turd Ferguson! So hilarious, I had to watch the video again!

 

[AM07]

I am going to start this kind of training soon. I am starting a cut in a week or so.

 

[Variocam]

I walk to class in the mornings directly after breakfast, takes about 20-25 minutes. Ive lost a lot of fat in the past 4 weeks, but im also using eca

 

[carriong]

I walk to class in the mornings directly after breakfast, takes about 20-25 minutes. Ive lost a lot of fat in the past 4 weeks, but im also using eca

Good tip. i would need to look into that!!:afro: