PLCAR for fat loss

mcc23

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Can anyone comment on Propionyl-L-Carnitine's effectiveness as a fat loss supplement?
 
kbayne

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ALCAR would be a better option via AMPK stimulation.

PLCAR is quite difficult to come by (if I recall) and would be best used for: elevate muscle carnitine, energy production, testosterone like effects, and fatigue.
 
NoAddedHmones

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ALCAR would be a better option via AMPK stimulation.

PLCAR is quite difficult to come by (if I recall) and would be best used for: elevate muscle carnitine, energy production, testosterone like effects, and fatigue.
You are confusing ALCAR with AICAR
 
kbayne

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You are confusing ALCAR with AICAR
Possibly and aware of AlCAR and AMPK activation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ALCAR ability to increase insulin sensitivity, would cause the activation of AMPK?
 
rtmilburn

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Possibly and aware of AlCAR and AMPK activation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ALCAR ability to increase insulin sensitivity, would cause the activation of AMPK?
There is more ways to increase insulin sensitivity then ampk, ampk is only one of MANY ways to increase insulin sensitivity. I'm pretty sure alcar does nothing to ampk
 
NoAddedHmones

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Possibly and aware of AlCAR and AMPK activation.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but ALCAR ability to increase insulin sensitivity, would cause the activation of AMPK?
I haven't seen any data to suggest ALCAR will have any tangible fat loss effects, you are right though it has been shown to improve insulin sensitivity in pre-diabetic/non-healthy people. But in context for a normal person, wouldn't count on it to doing Mucho en absoluto.
 
kbayne

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There is more ways to increase insulin sensitivity then ampk, ampk is only one of MANY ways to increase insulin sensitivity. I'm pretty sure alcar does nothing to ampk
Believe me, I am well aware of more effective ways to increase insulin sensitivity. Although ALCAR may not stimulate AMPK directly, I am thinking it may through other mechanisms. Again, I could certainly be wrong.

I haven't seen any data to suggest ALCAR will have any tangible fat loss effects, you are right though it has been shown to improve insulin sensitivity in pre-diabetic/non-healthy people. But in context for a normal person, wouldn't count on it to doing Mucho en absoluto.

Oh I agree 100% on ALCAR and fat loss. Certainly wouldn't be something I would recommend in that department.
 
rtmilburn

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Believe me, I am well aware of more effective ways to increase insulin sensitivity. Although ALCAR may not stimulate AMPK directly, I am thinking it may through other mechanisms. Again, I could certainly be wrong.




Oh I agree 100% on ALCAR and fat loss. Certainly wouldn't be something I would recommend in that department.
I wasn't trying to say you didn't know your stuff or anything like that if it came off that way I'm sorry. If you find anything on it effecting ampk I would love to see it!
 
kbayne

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I wasn't trying to say you didn't know your stuff or anything like that if it came off that way I'm sorry. If you find anything on it effecting ampk I would love to see it!
All good. Wasn't trying to come off as pissed or thinking you thought that, lol.

I haven't found anything showing it directly, so my comment on ALCAR and AMPK directly may not be 100% correct. That being said, far better options for AMPK activation anyways.
 
warbird01

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Are you trying to go the non stim route?
 
rtmilburn

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All good. Wasn't trying to come off as pissed or thinking you thought that, lol.

I haven't found anything showing it directly, so my comment on ALCAR and AMPK directly may not be 100% correct. That being said, far better options for AMPK activation anyways.
Haha OK sweet, ya I agree there is much better option for ampk; although I do think that carnitine derivatives like PLCAR and ALCAR are very good supps. I'm curious to what makes you think it might effect ampk? Wanna walk me through your thinking?
 
rtmilburn

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NoAddedHmones Synapsin Jiigzz Danes kbayne and whoever else


what are your guys thoughts on acetyl-l-carnitine arginate? Overall as a supplement, as a nootropics, and specifically on its ability to increase/mimic NGF.(this one has me intrigued! As the results were 3 fold of what regular acetyl-l-carnitine produced)
 
Danes

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NoAddedHmones Synapsin Jiigzz Danes kbayne and whoever else


what are your guys thoughts on acetyl-l-carnitine arginate? Overall as a supplement, as a nootropics, and specifically on its ability to increase/mimic NGF.(this one has me intrigued! As the results were 3 fold of what regular acetyl-l-carnitine produced)
I prefer GPLC :)
 
rtmilburn

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I prefer GPLC :)
I know gplc is better for bodybuilding purposes and pumps.

Although isn't acetyl-l-carnitine arginate superior for NGF production and mimicking? And as a nootropics too? Or is gplc just as good for that?
 
kbayne

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I know gplc is better for bodybuilding purposes and pumps.

Although isn't acetyl-l-carnitine arginate superior for NGF production and mimicking? And as a nootropics too? Or is gplc just as good for that?
GPLC would be superior as a nootropic.

Lions Mane would be superior to ALCAR-Arginate in regards to stimulation of nerve growth factor.
 
Danes

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I know gplc is better for bodybuilding purposes and pumps.

Although isn't acetyl-l-carnitine arginate superior for NGF production and mimicking? And as a nootropics too? Or is gplc just as good for that?
To be honest, I really dont know :) dont use that either
 
Danes

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I know gplc is better for bodybuilding purposes and pumps.

Although isn't acetyl-l-carnitine arginate superior for NGF production and mimicking? And as a nootropics too? Or is gplc just as good for that?
The NGF increase, isnt that in rats?
 

mcc23

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Are you trying to go the non stim route?
Pretty much. I wanted to drop about 1% bf as I'm already around 6%. I have a PL comp coming up soon and was trying to avoid going into a deficit that would inhibit my recovery from workouts. I have EC on hand, but I understand that it will do very little for fat loss if not used in tandem with a caloric deficit
 

mcc23

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So the carnitines are pretty much useless as fat loss agents? Any other supplements that can promote lipolysis absent of a caloric deficit?
 
kbayne

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So the carnitines are pretty much useless as fat loss agents? Any other supplements that can promote lipolysis absent of a caloric deficit?
You want to drop 1% body fat without going into a caloric deficit? Not sure that is going to happen, and a carnitine salt sure as heck isn't going to do any help. Going beyond that, not much of anything is going to drop you 1% BF without going into a caloric deficit.

Why not go into a small deficit and introduce HMB-Ca or another compound that aids in recovery? Or go into a large deficit for a week, get down to your goal %, and add calories back in leading up to the show. If done correctly, you shouldn't add much of any fat at all especially being at 5-6% BF.
 
dsade

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As the person that brought PLCAR to the market, I find it superior for both fat loss and physical energy, but I could never get the price down low enough to compete with the other carnitines, and generally it works best in a support role with more direct fat loss agents.

It does a number of unique properties that caught my attention back in 2004, such as the positive effects on the acetyl-COA:acyl- COA ratio.

It is part of my preworkout if I can ever find an acceptable stim.
 
dsade

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Some of my original notes on PLCAR....not sure if the PubMed Study numbers are still good and I'm catatonic from an extremely long week...



PLCAR increases carbohydrate/glucose metabolism. (7554119)
PLCAR causes dilation of blood vessels, especially those in adipose tissue - possibly by increasing production of prostaglandins (pgf2-a?) (10359944)
PLCAR increases energy expenditure (9139943)
PLCAR relieves Pyruvate DeHydrogenase inhibition caused by elevated ratio of Acetyl-CoA:CoA. The propionate ester is severed in the mitochondria, and replaced with an acetyl group (thus lowering the ratio). .(10826498)
PLCAR increases plasma levels of ATP and adenosine. (9546959)
When the propionate is severed in the mitochondria, it is converted easily, and without energy consumption, into Succinate, a VERY important Krebs intermediate. (15591005)
 
rtmilburn

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Some of my original notes on PLCAR....not sure if the PubMed Study numbers are still good and I'm catatonic from an extremely long week...



PLCAR increases carbohydrate/glucose metabolism. (7554119)
PLCAR causes dilation of blood vessels, especially those in adipose tissue - possibly by increasing production of prostaglandins (pgf2-a?) (10359944)
PLCAR increases energy expenditure (9139943)
PLCAR relieves Pyruvate DeHydrogenase inhibition caused by elevated ratio of Acetyl-CoA:CoA. The propionate ester is severed in the mitochondria, and replaced with an acetyl group (thus lowering the ratio). .(10826498)
PLCAR increases plasma levels of ATP and adenosine. (9546959)
When the propionate is severed in the mitochondria, it is converted easily, and without energy consumption, into Succinate, a VERY important Krebs intermediate. (15591005)
Thanks as always you are very helpful/insightful! Always love hearing your thoughts and learning from you. What would you say is an optimal dose for PLCAR 1g?
 
dsade

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Thanks as always you are very helpful/insightful! Always love hearing your thoughts and learning from you. What would you say is an optimal dose for PLCAR 1g?
A gram is a great dose and provides a noticeable kick in energy. I started designing an energy drink using PLCAR but the stuff doesn't exactly taste delicious
 
rtmilburn

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A gram is a great dose and provides a noticeable kick in energy. I started designing an energy drink using PLCAR but the stuff doesn't exactly taste delicious
Lol I bet PLCAR isn't necessarily delectable, not to mention the other stuff you used, and knowing you they unusual but bad a$$. If you ever need a beta tester or taste tester I'm in!!! Lol
 
dsade

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Lol I bet PLCAR isn't necessarily delectable, not to mention the other stuff you used, and knowing you they unusual but bad a$$. If you ever need a beta tester or taste tester I'm in!!! Lol
You got yourself a deal
 
kbayne

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A gram is a great dose and provides a noticeable kick in energy. I started designing an energy drink using PLCAR but the stuff doesn't exactly taste delicious
People need to stop worrying about the damn taste and worry about the products effectiveness.
 

bosskardo

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Agree.
I'm willing to put up with any taste if it's effective. Just rinse your mouth and sip sth pleasant.
Great taste is a bonus and if the product is really effective then who cares about the taste.
 

aaronuconn

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People need to stop worrying about the damn taste and worry about the products effectiveness.
With an energy drink? You know it wouldn't sell well outside of the bodybuilding community. Even within it, it would be a niche group that would buy it (AM crowd, etc)
 
dsade

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With an energy drink? You know it wouldn't sell well outside of the bodybuilding community. Even within it, it would be a niche group that would buy it (AM crowd, etc)
Yeah, that was the conclusion I came to. HUGE minimums and it wouldn't sell outside of the fitness markets. Personally, I think MONSTER energy tastes like ass, but enough people like it to have made them all a fortune. I can make one way more effective, but would never be able to move through the minimums.

You guys want me to offer some bulk PLCAR? This is something i can offer near or slightly above cost.
 

mcc23

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So if it's not very effective as a fat burner, what is it effective with? I understand that it does promote nitric oxide production, and I get a noticeable uptick in energy levels after taking around 2 g.
 
dsade

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So if it's not very effective as a fat burner, what is it effective with? I understand that it does promote nitric oxide production, and I get a noticeable uptick in energy levels after taking around 2 g.
It's an effective fat burner as part of a formula...a damn good one at that...but fat burning is a complicated process where quite a few factors need to be functioning ideally. PLCAR serves a semi-critical role in fat burning, one that you notice more when you're NOT taking it.

I'll try to grab the second and third pages of my research page and get it posted up here for you guys.
 
rtmilburn

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Yeah, that was the conclusion I came to. HUGE minimums and it wouldn't sell outside of the fitness markets. Personally, I think MONSTER energy tastes like ass, but enough people like it to have made them all a fortune. I can make one way more effective, but would never be able to move through the minimums.

You guys want me to offer some bulk PLCAR? This is something i can offer near or slightly above cost.
Honestly if you can get it to be decent tasting I think it could be HUGE hit!!! With the right marketing. Market towards gamers but not to direct either leaving who you are marketing to more inclusive.
 
rtmilburn

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Honestly if you can get it to be decent tasting I think it could be HUGE hit!!! With the right marketing. Market towards gamers but not to direct either leaving who you are marketing to more inclusive.
Want to add that this is a really untouched market. These gamers buy poo ton of montsers and barely effective energy drinks. Companies are barely starting to market to this group but they are in powders. Make a canned product, in the $3 price range, and get it into Walmart ,gas station, etc. It would kill it as your stuff is very very effective and the gamers would cling to it, then the niche market like us(AMers) would love it too, also truckers, etc. I'm telling you with your genius in this area would make a killing if you can get the price point right!!!!
 
dsade

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Want to add that this is a really untouched market. These gamers buy poo ton of montsers and barely effective energy drinks. Companies are barely starting to market to this group but they are in powders. Make a canned product, in the $3 price range, and get it into Walmart ,gas station, etc. I would kill it as you stuff is very very effective and the gamers would cling to it and then the niche market like us(AMers) would love it too, also truckers, etc. I'm telling you with your genius in this area would make a killing if you can get the price point right!!!!
PLCAR literally blew my socks off the first time I tried it. Having been taking ALCAR for a couple of years before that, I figure that the ester couldn't make that much of a difference between the acetyl and the priopionate, but it really does.

The PLCAR affects the body's energy levels dramatically, while ALCAR supercharges your brain.

Tell you what...I'll go ahead with the formula I have made up. It won't be in a can, it won't be carbonated, and it's doubtful the flavor will be anything approaching final, but if you guys like it I have some people I might be able to pitch the idea too.

Every single energy drink out there is the same exact crappy assed formula (imagine that...people in this industry only have the brains to copy others).

I'll make up some powdered samples that you can evaluate for effects.
 
rtmilburn

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PLCAR literally blew my socks off the first time I tried it. Having been taking ALCAR for a couple of years before that, I figure that the ester couldn't make that much of a difference between the acetyl and the priopionate, but it really does.

The PLCAR affects the body's energy levels dramatically, while ALCAR supercharges your brain.

Tell you what...I'll go ahead with the formula I have made up. It won't be in a can, it won't be carbonated, and it's doubtful the flavor will be anything approaching final, but if you guys like it I have some people I might be able to pitch the idea too.

Every single energy drink out there is the same exact crappy assed formula (imagine that...people in this industry only have the brains to copy others).

I'll make up some powdered samples that you can evaluate for effects.
Haha SOOOOOOO true. I'm excited to try it! I do think it could be a big hit, with the right marketing
 
kbayne

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With an energy drink? You know it wouldn't sell well outside of the bodybuilding community. Even within it, it would be a niche group that would buy it (AM crowd, etc)
Excluding energy drinks. Now those need to taste good IMO. Those are something (for the most part) someone is going to sip on, not slam.

But I agree, if something doesn't taste good, its not going to sell.

Yeah, that was the conclusion I came to. HUGE minimums and it wouldn't sell outside of the fitness markets. Personally, I think MONSTER energy tastes like ass, but enough people like it to have made them all a fortune. I can make one way more effective, but would never be able to move through the minimums.

You guys want me to offer some bulk PLCAR? This is something i can offer near or slightly above cost.
You don't like the Monster Zero huh?

Bulk PLCAR would be solid IMO, as it is hard to come by now days.
 

bosskardo

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PLCAR literally blew my socks off the first time I tried it. Having been taking ALCAR for a couple of years before that, I figure that the ester couldn't make that much of a difference between the acetyl and the priopionate, but it really does.

The PLCAR affects the body's energy levels dramatically, while ALCAR supercharges your brain.

Tell you what...I'll go ahead with the formula I have made up. It won't be in a can, it won't be carbonated, and it's doubtful the flavor will be anything approaching final, but if you guys like it I have some people I might be able to pitch the idea too.

Every single energy drink out there is the same exact crappy assed formula (imagine that...people in this industry only have the brains to copy others).

I'll make up some powdered samples that you can evaluate for effects.
Nice, that should be great.
 
dsade

dsade

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This will be easy to set up.

I'll do like 100 gram containers for like $20. I have plenty of dessicant packets for the Strafe and the KetoInduce, since PLCAR sucks water from the atmosphere 10 times worse then even ALCAR and liquifies.

I'll play a little bit and if I have to add some inert cellulose to keep it a powder then I'll up it to 125 grams for the same.

Excluding energy drinks. Now those need to taste good IMO. Those are something (for the most part) someone is going to sip on, not slam.

But I agree, if something doesn't taste good, its not going to sell.



You don't like the Monster Zero huh?

Bulk PLCAR would be solid IMO, as it is hard to come by now days.
 

Br1ck_Sh1thouse

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PLCAR literally blew my socks off the first time I tried it. Having been taking ALCAR for a couple of years before that, I figure that the ester couldn't make that much of a difference between the acetyl and the priopionate, but it really does.

The PLCAR affects the body's energy levels dramatically, while ALCAR supercharges your brain.

Tell you what...I'll go ahead with the formula I have made up. It won't be in a can, it won't be carbonated, and it's doubtful the flavor will be anything approaching final, but if you guys like it I have some people I might be able to pitch the idea too.

Every single energy drink out there is the same exact crappy assed formula (imagine that...people in this industry only have the brains to copy others).

I'll make up some powdered samples that you can evaluate for effects.
Sign me up!
 

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