Plastic surgery and fashion to compliments one's great physique.

[JoePaul39]

I feel like the majority of what aas SHOULD be used for is cutting personally. You can bulk naturally pretty easy. The tricky part is dieting off fat naturally. That puts you in a pickle though, because you want to cut to 15% so you CAN use aas. My answer, and forum gurus may disagree with me. Bulk until you are the size you want to be, then use aas to cut it all up. But I’d like to see what everyone else thinks too.

Could always try to recomp, rather than cut. My plan was to start a Ostarine, Rad 140, Epi Andro cut in about a month, but maybe based on what posters have said I should do a recomp instead. I wanted to get to 15 percent then start bulking with dmz, but I am only 5 foot 10 at 20 percent fat about 187 pounds so by the time I get to 15 percent who knows how skinny I would be! I just don’t see how I can justify bulking in my current state that includes man boobs and all lol!

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I feel like the majority of what aas SHOULD be used for is cutting personally. You can bulk naturally pretty easy. The tricky part is dieting off fat naturally. That puts you in a pickle though, because you want to cut to 15% so you CAN use aas. My answer, and forum gurus may disagree with me. Bulk until you are the size you want to be, then use aas to cut it all up. But I’d like to see what everyone else thinks too.

It depends on your level. If you’re carrying a lot of mass and size, you may need AAS to progress at any decent rate. As a beginner or intermediate lifter, you are right, you can gain without it easy enough.

 

[Matthersby]

Could always try to recomp, rather than cut. My plan was to start a Ostarine, Rad 140, Epi Andro cut in about a month, but maybe based on what posters have said I should do a recomp instead. I wanted to get to 15 percent then start bulking with dmz, but I am only 5 foot 10 at 20 percent fat about 187 pounds so by the time I get to 15 percent who knows how skinny I would be! I just don’t see how I can justify bulking in my current state that includes man boobs and all lol!

Cut with drugs, man. I’m just gonna say it. It works so damn well. Just use dry compounds that a little bodyfat won’t aggravate. No Dbol, or anything that destroys lipids.

 

[Hyde]

Could always try to recomp, rather than cut. My plan was to start a Ostarine, Rad 140, Epi Andro cut in about a month, but maybe based on what posters have said I should do a recomp instead. I wanted to get to 15 percent then start bulking with dmz, but I am only 5 foot 10 at 20 percent fat about 187 pounds so by the time I get to 15 percent who knows how skinny I would be! I just don’t see how I can justify bulking in my current state that includes man boobs and all lol!

Cut with drugs, man. I’m just gonna say it. It works so damn well. Just use dry compounds that a little bodyfat won’t aggravate. No Dbol, or anything that destroys lipids.

Perhaps I’ll get some flack for this, but here’s my bropinion:

Order some Clen or Albuterol. Spend 2 weeks on a strict diet. If you make it through with no cheats, have lost a few lbs, and feel like you have a handle on your nutrition, incorporate Clen for 3-4 weeks. If you were already successfully losing weight the first 2 weeks, the Clen will supercharge that, while being muscle-sparing. You are looking at over 10lbs of weightloss in 5-6 weeks like this and also priming your body for growth by restoring insulin sensitivity and reducing fat stores which contain aromatase enzymes that would have made your androgens less effective or require more AI.

Then you can immediately start a sensible bulk cycle. The body will immediately yo-yo in weight, but we don’t care about that - we just want to get fat off you before we introduce steroids so you can gain as quality mass as possible.

The other option is to go into a dry recomp focused cycle, but your first cycle should be about pushing your gains on a proper bulk in my opinion. And you shouldn’t bulk if you’re already too fat for your liking.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Perhaps I’ll get some flack for this, but here’s my bropinion:

Order some Clen or Albuterol. Spend 2 weeks on a strict diet. If you make it through with no cheats, have lost a few lbs, and feel like you have a handle on your nutrition, incorporate Clen for 3-4 weeks. If you were already successfully losing weight the first 2 weeks, the Clen will supercharge that, while being muscle-sparing. You are looking at over 10lbs of weightloss in 5-6 weeks like this and also priming your body for growth by restoring insulin sensitivity and reducing fat stores which contain aromatase enzymes that would have made your androgens less effective or require more AI.

Then you can immediately start a sensible bulk cycle. The body will immediately yo-yo in weight, but we don’t care about that - we just want to get fat off you before we introduce steroids so you can gain as quality mass as possible.

The other option is to go into a dry recomp focused cycle, but your first cycle should be about pushing your gains on a proper bulk in my opinion. And you shouldn’t bulk if you’re already too fat for your liking.

Why does a new lifter who’s already planning on upping his testosterone dose to perhaps supraphysiological levels need MORE drugs? It’s overkill. There’s no need for it at all. If he can’t lose weight while preserving muscle mass using “only” supraphysiological testosterone, he needs to take a big step back and reevaluate his diet and training. I also don’t see a good justification for someone with so little mass, no offense to him, he’s new and will grow a lot, cutting. Cutting down to what? You do know that if you increase your muscle mass without increasing fat mass you are reducing your body fat percentage, so there’s that too.

 

[Lionheart1776]

Don’t want to take this thread off track, but I am 187 pound with 20 percent body fat at 5 foot 10. I have been focusing on cutting to get to the coveted 15 percent range before I bulk on anabolics. This seems to be what everyone seems to advise on here...don’t bulk with an anabolic cycle until 15 percent. Should I bulk instead? I don’t want to get to 15 percent, but then be skinny fat cause I don’t have much muscle left because I lost so much weight to get to 15 percent.

You and I we're in the same spot facing tbe same dilema. We are both small and a getting a bit of the fat side. If we cut, to what are we cutting to? If we bulk how much longer until were stealing or mothers maternity pants? Oh boy, what do?

I just saw a John Meadows video about when to end a bulk Jon thinks we should end then once our insulin sensitivity gets to high. Some indicators of that are flatter pumps, and some other stuff he talks about. I couldn't tell for myself so I'm going to order some strips to check my fasting glucose levels, do gotta check and see if that'll be useful first, but looks promising.

At our bodyfat range we are already at a much higher risk for having high insulin reistance anyways. It reduces how much of our nutrients can get shuttled to the muscles to help them repair and grow. Another guy I'm reading is saying that a 4 week mini cut can be a great way to improve our insulin sensitivity to then continue the bulk.

I wonder if using an insulin sensatizing agent such as berberine or metformin might be able to help us bulk more effectively bulk at our higher bodyfat levels since it would make us more insulin sensative in it's own right, or maybe turbo charging the mini cuts insulin sensatizing effects? I need to figure this out soon, lol. ****.

 

[HIT4ME]

Lionheart1776 - I think you are getting some harsh advice that is truth here.

While you may have a point that looks can open doors for you - don't fool yourself into thinking that ALL of those doors will be positive. The grass always looks greener, but we all have our crosses to bear.

One thing to keep in mind - we have a society that is promoting narcissistic behaviors more and more. Empathy, compassion and depth are becoming more and more difficult to find. On one hand, you would think that becoming better looking may allow you to attract more and more people, and thus increase your chances of finding those people who will actually make your life better; but in reality you will just attract more people who will drag your life down if you focus on these narcissistic behaviors.

And do you want to be that shallow that you have to rely on a deception/fakeness to attract what you want? What does that say about one's own character? What type of person will be looking for that character?

And you may think that is harsh - but look at some people who have HORRIBLE injuries or malformations, etc. - when they go through life and find a way to make it work and become great in spite of that; when they accept their true self and become the best THEY can be - how inspiring is that?

And to pull this into bodybuilding - the above thoughts are still coherent with the base of bodybuilding - you can't look like Arnold no matter how much work you put in; but you WILL look like AND BE a stronger version of yourself. People who start bodybuilding because they want to look like Phil Heath are already missing the point - and many of us do start there, but you have to accept limitations and realities and see the positives of actual self improvement.

As others have pointed out as well - what you think looks/sounds good or attractive now will change as you grow older.

I do see some point if you can fix something that is negatively impacting your life to a large degree - but you have to make that decision and you should balance that against your own character and strength.

I'm not intending to sound preachy, because these types of issues are issues we all struggle with in different areas and to different degrees. If this is something that bothers you a lot and is difficult to live with, I would suggest talking to a therapist and some friends before making a decision. I'm not saying there is never a case for doing this, just that the decision should be heavy.

I have a friend who has had a lot of plastic surgery. She has had surgery to lose weight, and who knows what else. She has lost a lot of weight and looks great. But what she doesn't realize is, she ALWAYS looked great. Even at 275 pounds she was good looking and more importantly, one of my favorite people in the entire world. She started going down this road and you can see that it is "never" enough. You can always be a little bit better. I'm glad she has lost weight and is healthier physically, but it has taken a toll on her mentally and I wish it hadn't.

 

[Hyde]

Why does a new lifter who’s already planning on upping his testosterone dose to perhaps supraphysiological levels need MORE drugs? It’s overkill. There’s no need for it at all. If he can’t lose weight while preserving muscle mass using “only” supraphysiological testosterone, he needs to take a big step back and reevaluate his diet and training. I also don’t see a good justification for someone with so little mass, no offense to him, he’s new and will grow a lot, cutting. Cutting down to what? You do know that if you increase your muscle mass without increasing fat mass you are reducing your body fat percentage, so there’s that too.

Jeez bro take time to actually read the comments before you post: my advice was strictly to Joe Paul, who is currently natty, has excessive body fat to his liking, and planning a first cycle soon.

 

[Matthersby]

Ya ^ there’s been some light amount of threadjacking. There’s too much going on in this thread to know all that’s going on. He’s on TRT, so really, if he’s responsible with labs etc, there’s really only 2 reasons he shouldn’t: Learn more about aas, and build a solid foundation first dialing in training and nutrition, but we’ve all told him this. Hopefully, we can steer him in a positive direction with the route he’s choosing.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Jeez bro take time to actually read the comments before you post: my advice was strictly to Joe Paul, who is currently natty, has excessive body fat to his liking, and planning a first cycle soon.

I’m sorry for not realizing that you were addressing someone besides OP who is also cutting in this massive thread.

 

[Hyde]

I’m sorry for not realizing that you were addressing someone besides OP who is also cutting in this massive thread.

That’s why I directly quoted Joe Paul. No need to get defensive. Just think longer before you post next time.

 

[HIT4ME]

(People who know me learn to take note and sometimes admit to being careful not to bring up any of my hobbies or interests in order to keep their sanity, lol.)

Some of your writing has some red flags for me, and this is one of them. I don't know you nor your situation, and I am not qualified in any way for anything.

But this type of comment strikes me, and maybe I am completely in left field, because it is something I have dealt with - I am KNOWN on here for long posts. Haha.

On one hand, the way I deal with this is to try to look inside and find what I can do better. Sometimes I just have to stop talking and listen more. Sometimes I want to help or get a point across so badly I just keep saying more and more in the hope it has an effect - but stepping back and letting others get into the conversation makes them engage more and makes it easier to communicate. This means that I can communicate more with less effort. And it is often hard for me.

The other thing that this brings up in me is, sometimes I have gone through periods where I have felt really bad about myself or alone or unable to talk to people and this flaw in me seems to be the case. And looking inside during these periods makes me feel really bad. And sometimes, I have to acknowledge my flaws and work on improving.

But there is another side to that - sometimes you have surrounded yourself with the wrong people. Some people just make you feel bad and don't want to listen to you...it isn't about you allowing them to engage. Sometimes you have to recognize that too - that sometime your flaw is that you are surrounding yourself with crazy people and you need to realize that these people aren't improving your standards.

I am not trying to play psychologist or anything here. But you are 22 and even at 38 I still am not 100% free of other people's BS...maybe I am just projecting a little.

The trick is to realize you could be the problem, and work on it - but also realize they can be and work on that too.

 

[Whisky]

I know jack **** all about fashion, so I’m going to hire a cool popular girl from the local college (If I can manage not to scare them away every-time, lol) to help me get the “**** boy” look down. Or at least help me find clothes that don’t make me stand out as a completely clueless dork and maximize me sex appeal, lol.

Bro, do not hire some popular girl to tell you what is ‘cool’. Just wear what you want to wear. Again your focusing so much on what others think of you, honestly your not going to feel happy by trying to conform to this image you think you should.

The way you approach this and analyse everything is suggestive of some stuff that I wouldn’t want to start talking about on a forum, but if I am right then it’s somethjng I know a bit about and definitely trying to fit into a conformity box isn’t going to help.

Besides, the ultimate in cool is trend setting anyway, the people leading in fashion (and everything else) are those that do something different to the masses and being people to their way of thinking, they absolutely don’t just follow the mainstream.

Be yourself mate, you’ll find things way better in the long run.

 

[DemntedCowboy]

Bro, do not hire some popular girl to tell you what is ‘cool’. Just wear what you want to wear. Again your focusing so much on what others think of you, honestly your not going to feel happy by trying to conform to this image you think you should.

The way you approach this and analyse everything is suggestive of some stuff that I wouldn’t want to start talking about on a forum, but if I am right then it’s somethjng I know a bit about and definitely trying to fit into a conformity box isn’t going to help.

Besides, the ultimate in cool is trend setting anyway, the people leading in fashion (and everything else) are those that do something different to the masses and being people to their way of thinking, they absolutely don’t just follow the mainstream.

Be yourself mate, you’ll find things way better in the long run.

^This

 

[hairygrandpa]

Besides a lot to argue about your last post, one sticks out:
3x 500mg berberine.... I think you underestimate its potency.
It may get you hypo.

 

[Renew1]

The pufferfish plan. My updated 18 week plan of action.

I though I’d turn my 18 week plan into a post on here as well since so many of you took so much time out of your day to offer me feedback and advice. I appreciate everyone who tried to drum some sensibility into my thick skull and to encourage me to go about things in a sensible and healthy way. I have always been hopelessly stubborn and prone to falling victim to the dunning Kruger Effect, so it is no surprise to me that it happened again. So I’ve decided on a more moderate (But not too moderate) approach for the time being.

Quick update, due to a few changes I’ve made since last Friday I’ve seen some changes come to fruition, I’ve been able to cut 8-10 lbs of water weight off from my last weight in, so I’m now looking smaller but leaner. I now weight 179 on the nose. I didn’t bother to count all the seasoning I use since the calories where negligible and I’m a a bulk, so (upon my audit) it turns out I was eating almost 4000mg of sodium a day! (Yikes) My potassium came in at 1500ish, I’ve changed the ratios to 2500 mg sodium and 4000 mg potassium by using more skim milk/no salt, and using less seasoning ( I use to heap it on). I also started taking my 12.5 mg of exemestane with my omega 3 eggs instead on when I wake up which is 45 minutes before hand and probably reduced it’s bio-availability due to the lack of dietary fat present at administration. (I have a few updated photos below, sadly I lost size across the board, but I also in my humble opinion look to be closer to 18% body fat instead of 20%, so I view that as a neutral development.

I’ve decided that I’m going to run a 6 week mini cut to improve my insulin sensitivity, I also plan on running Berberine at 500 mgs 3x a day to try to improve my insulin sensitivity as much as possible. On the cut, carbs will be me mostly limited to the 6 hour window of 7 A.M. - 1:00 P.M. only trace amounts afterwards. I plan on adding Gatorade with EAAs intra workout to improve recovery and most of my other carbs will be pre and post workout to aid in recovery. I also wanted to use this as an opportunity to give my body a break so I am going to run my TRT at only 40mgx3 (120mg a week) M’W’F sub q with a slin pin. If that gets annoying I will just go back to 2x a week intra muscular, just wanted to see if splitting up the dose would save from from having to use exemestane to control estrogen. The deficit will be ran at a modest 500 KCAL so that I have don’t hopefully don't loose any LBM, protein will be ran at 200 grams, carbs will be 200 on workout days and 100 on off days the rest of the calories are allocated to healthy fats.

During the cut I am going to focus on getting my workout protocol where I want it to be. So far I have it pegged down at 18 quality sets per body part per week.

It’d look (as listed below) with Saturday and Sunday being recovery days. Abs are every day in the form of light core work with my morning stretches. Cardio is every day as well. I also do vacuums now to hopefully bring my waist in a bit and to improve the strength of the transverse abdominal muscle wall, I definitely don’t feel like I'm doing them correctly and afterwards I have to stretch by belly so I don’t keep holding it in, which makes me breath shallowly.

Monday- Lower chest, shoulders, triceps, and calves.
Tuesday- Back width, biceps, quads, hamstrings, glutes, traps, neck, and forearms.
Wednesday Recovery day.
Thursday- Upper chest, shoulders, triceps, and calves.
Friday- Back density, biceps, quads, hamstrings, gluts, traps, neck, and forearms.

On the completion of the mini cut I plan on running another bread and butter 500mg a week(from the start) test cycle for 12 weeks and 12.5 mg of Mk-677 again since my last 8 week course of it went very well. I don’t feel like adding in orals would be helpful at this stage due to me still being a newer trainee (weaker connective tissue) I don’t want to push my luck with putting on to much strength to quickly. Which orals are known to do, also I don’t want my lipids to be crashed down and remain suppressed throughout the 12 week cycle. I am going to have a shadow trainer for the mini cut to help me get the form down, he’ll be posing as just a buddy helping his knuckle head friend figure stuff out. I am going to use a suction cup mounting bracket to use a cheap touch screen pad with wireless headphones to beam John Meadows into our ears so that the trainer and I can both perfect our form in real time(He can’t look like my trainer so he’ll have to train too and I’ll have to help him). (Mountain dog will be right there in the gym with us, how inspiring and wonderful!) Lol, on YouTube of course. I might keep the trainer for part of the bulk phase too if I still feel behind on my technique. Althou I like to eventually find a real gym buddy to workout with, but right now I am little if any use to anyone as training partner but other newbs. (Not productive to train with them since both of us would be incompetent.) My macros on the bulk will 50% carbs, 220 protein, and the rest of the calories allocated to healthy fats, my calories will be at at 750 KCAL surplus 6 days a week with a cheat day every Friday (Up to 2000ish calorie surplus acceptable if desired{probably will go by how the waist/gains are going}). Will be running the adaptive TDEE spreadsheet and update MFP every other week or so.

For plastic surgery I ordered a teeth whiting kit. If that doesn't work there is a place down the road who offers that service, I am getting my wisdom teeth pulled in September so that will free me up to get my teeth straitened. That takes awhile so no other plastic surgery for me anytime soon, either ears or jawline augmentation. I know jack **** all about fashion, so I’m going to hire a cool popular girl from the local college (If I can manage not to scare them away every-time, lol) to help me get the “**** boy” look down. Or at least help me find clothes that don’t make me stand out as a completely clueless dork and maximize me sex appeal, lol. By the way, I lied. There is no such thing as quick anything with me. My apologies I have always been the biggest motor mouth in the world once I get going. And sadly for anyone who I know on the Internet, I can type almost as fast as I can talk, if not faster. (People who know me learn to take note and sometimes admit to being careful not to bring up any of my hobbies or interests in order to keep their sanity, lol.) View attachment 169823

I think that it's great to be detail oriented...but you're all over the place brother. You seem to be trying to dial in all the particulars that most people never even get to.
But i think you're jumping the gun, man. Reading your posts, and looking at your pics, you obviously don't have the foundation and basics down enough yet.

Spend all of that nervous energy focusing on the basics first... Eat, train, rest. Build a base first. You haven't yet.

This isn't a dig at all. Everybody has to start from the beginning. But i don't think you understand that yet.
You aren't close to the finish line. You've just left the starting blocks.

There's actually great freedom in the beginning. It's ok to mess up.

 

[Matthersby]

The pufferfish plan. My updated 18 week plan of action.

I though I’d turn my 18 week plan into a post on here as well since so many of you took so much time out of your day to offer me feedback and advice. I appreciate everyone who tried to drum some sensibility into my thick skull and to encourage me to go about things in a sensible and healthy way. I have always been hopelessly stubborn and prone to falling victim to the dunning Kruger Effect, so it is no surprise to me that it happened again. So I’ve decided on a more moderate (But not too moderate) approach for the time being.

Quick update, due to a few changes I’ve made since last Friday I’ve seen some changes come to fruition, I’ve been able to cut 8-10 lbs of water weight off from my last weight in, so I’m now looking smaller but leaner. I now weight 179 on the nose. I didn’t bother to count all the seasoning I use since the calories where negligible and I’m a a bulk, so (upon my audit) it turns out I was eating almost 4000mg of sodium a day! (Yikes) My potassium came in at 1500ish, I’ve changed the ratios to 2500 mg sodium and 4000 mg potassium by using more skim milk/no salt, and using less seasoning ( I use to heap it on). I also started taking my 12.5 mg of exemestane with my omega 3 eggs instead on when I wake up which is 45 minutes before hand and probably reduced it’s bio-availability due to the lack of dietary fat present at administration. (I have a few updated photos below, sadly I lost size across the board, but I also in my humble opinion look to be closer to 18% body fat instead of 20%, so I view that as a neutral development.

I’ve decided that I’m going to run a 6 week mini cut to improve my insulin sensitivity, I also plan on running Berberine at 500 mgs 3x a day to try to improve my insulin sensitivity as much as possible. On the cut, carbs will be me mostly limited to the 6 hour window of 7 A.M. - 1:00 P.M. only trace amounts afterwards. I plan on adding Gatorade with EAAs intra workout to improve recovery and most of my other carbs will be pre and post workout to aid in recovery. I also wanted to use this as an opportunity to give my body a break so I am going to run my TRT at only 40mgx3 (120mg a week) M’W’F sub q with a slin pin. If that gets annoying I will just go back to 2x a week intra muscular, just wanted to see if splitting up the dose would save from from having to use exemestane to control estrogen. The deficit will be ran at a modest 500 KCAL so that I have don’t hopefully don't loose any LBM, protein will be ran at 200 grams, carbs will be 200 on workout days and 100 on off days the rest of the calories are allocated to healthy fats.

During the cut I am going to focus on getting my workout protocol where I want it to be. So far I have it pegged down at 18 quality sets per body part per week.

It’d look (as listed below) with Saturday and Sunday being recovery days. Abs are every day in the form of light core work with my morning stretches. Cardio is every day as well. I also do vacuums now to hopefully bring my waist in a bit and to improve the strength of the transverse abdominal muscle wall, I definitely don’t feel like I'm doing them correctly and afterwards I have to stretch by belly so I don’t keep holding it in, which makes me breath shallowly.

Monday- Lower chest, shoulders, triceps, and calves.
Tuesday- Back width, biceps, quads, hamstrings, glutes, traps, neck, and forearms.
Wednesday Recovery day.
Thursday- Upper chest, shoulders, triceps, and calves.
Friday- Back density, biceps, quads, hamstrings, gluts, traps, neck, and forearms.

On the completion of the mini cut I plan on running another bread and butter 500mg a week(from the start) test cycle for 12 weeks and 12.5 mg of Mk-677 again since my last 8 week course of it went very well. I don’t feel like adding in orals would be helpful at this stage due to me still being a newer trainee (weaker connective tissue) I don’t want to push my luck with putting on to much strength to quickly. Which orals are known to do, also I don’t want my lipids to be crashed down and remain suppressed throughout the 12 week cycle. I am going to have a shadow trainer for the mini cut to help me get the form down, he’ll be posing as just a buddy helping his knuckle head friend figure stuff out. I am going to use a suction cup mounting bracket to use a cheap touch screen pad with wireless headphones to beam John Meadows into our ears so that the trainer and I can both perfect our form in real time(He can’t look like my trainer so he’ll have to train too and I’ll have to help him). (Mountain dog will be right there in the gym with us, how inspiring and wonderful!) Lol, on YouTube of course. I might keep the trainer for part of the bulk phase too if I still feel behind on my technique. Althou I like to eventually find a real gym buddy to workout with, but right now I am little if any use to anyone as training partner but other newbs. (Not productive to train with them since both of us would be incompetent.) My macros on the bulk will 50% carbs, 220 protein, and the rest of the calories allocated to healthy fats, my calories will be at at 750 KCAL surplus 6 days a week with a cheat day every Friday (Up to 2000ish calorie surplus acceptable if desired{probably will go by how the waist/gains are going}). Will be running the adaptive TDEE spreadsheet and update MFP every other week or so.

For plastic surgery I ordered a teeth whiting kit. If that doesn't work there is a place down the road who offers that service, I am getting my wisdom teeth pulled in September so that will free me up to get my teeth straitened. That takes awhile so no other plastic surgery for me anytime soon, either ears or jawline augmentation. I know jack **** all about fashion, so I’m going to hire a cool popular girl from the local college (If I can manage not to scare them away every-time, lol) to help me get the “**** boy” look down. Or at least help me find clothes that don’t make me stand out as a completely clueless dork and maximize me sex appeal, lol. By the way, I lied. There is no such thing as quick anything with me. My apologies I have always been the biggest motor mouth in the world once I get going. And sadly for anyone who I know on the Internet, I can type almost as fast as I can talk, if not faster. (People who know me learn to take note and sometimes admit to being careful not to bring up any of my hobbies or interests in order to keep their sanity, lol.) View attachment 169823

Sounds like you want to come into your own and attract more women. What would YOU dress like if you had the choice? What do YOU like wearing? What are YOU most confident dressed like?
I’m going to suggest, when you hire this hot girl to help you with fashion, find a middle ground that she will sign off on that you feel good in. I tried to wear what I thought women wanted around your age, and I was super uncomfortable, until I found my own groove, kind of like a clean cut rocker, I’d guess, but I was massively confident and comfortable like that, and my opinion: THAT opens the door for a guy more than looks all day long. Keep us posted big guy.

 

[Matthersby]

^This

I’m trying to work with you, rather than try to change your mind on everything. But I do agree with these guys more than that. Once you develop a look that make YOU confident and comfortable, you won’t have any problems meeting women. As I said 30 pages ago, women snell desperation and inauthenticity like a bad cologne. They are more attracted to a guy that could “give a ****” if he goes home with them or not. That’s comfortable in how he looks and doesn’t try hard at all. Every time I went out not caring if I met women, I met women. This thought process has never done me wrong.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

That’s why I directly quoted Joe Paul. No need to get defensive. Just think longer before you post next time.

I was only being defensive because you were openly condescending at my making a simple mistake. And you’re doing it again here... but we’re beating a dead horse at this point.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Sounds like you want to come into your own and attract more women. What would YOU dress like if you had the choice? What do YOU like wearing? What are YOU most confident dressed like?
I’m going to suggest, when you hire this hot girl to help you with fashion, find a middle ground that she will sign off on that you feel good in. I tried to wear what I thought women wanted around your age, and I was super uncomfortable, until I found my own groove, kind of like a clean cut rocker, I’d guess, but I was massively confident and comfortable like that, and my opinion: THAT opens the door for a guy more than looks all day long. Keep us posted big guy.

This. Maybe pick it a few options or styles you like, and just make sure someone else you pick approves. You don’t need what they want, but getting their stamp of approval or OK can’t hurt. I bought a pair of red (fake) crocodile loafers for ~$20 at Burlington (Coat Factory) and I get more compliments on them than any other pair of shoes I’ve ever worn by a long shot. If you have a Burlington near you, you can find some nice and inexpensive clothes, same with Marshall’s and Ross if you look around and get lucky. From causal shorts and tees (mostly Marshall’s), to more dressy shoes, shirts, and even suits and jackets (mostly Burlington), you can get them for a fraction of normal retail price.

 

[Jstrong20]

I feel like the majority of what aas SHOULD be used for is cutting personally. You can bulk naturally pretty easy. The tricky part is dieting off fat naturally. That puts you in a pickle though, because you want to cut to 15% so you CAN use aas. My answer, and forum gurus may disagree with me. Bulk until you are the size you want to be, then use aas to cut it all up. But I’d like to see what everyone else thinks too.[/QUOTE

I personally feel the opposite approach is better. Drugs are wasted for n a cut unless you compete. Anybody can get lean if you diet hard enough. But bulking will be limited by genetics and steroids can override that. I prefer to cut hard for a short time then add in a little something during a bulk. No right or wrong so whatever works best.

 

[hairygrandpa]

OP is "cluster bombing" his body with a sh1tload of stuff and hasn't even started properly to build a physique. I did the same error -and I regret it.
Somehow I feel nothing will change his mind. I'm out.

 

[Renew1]

OP is "cluster bombing" his body with a sh1tload of stuff and hasn't even started properly to build a physique. I did the same error -and I regret it.
Somehow I feel nothing will change his mind. I'm out.

Yep.

 

[Lionheart1776]

Besides a lot to argue about your last post, one sticks out:
3x 500mg berberine.... I think you underestimate its potency.
It may get you hypo.

Was wondering if I should taper it, now I know for sure I should. Thanks. Do you think 500 mg with the largest bulus of carbs would be a good place to start?

 

[Jstrong20]

Yep.

I typed pretty much same thing. lol but my phone locked up. Nobody ever listens to that advice thoguh. Really what is seen in the pics could be far surpasses naturally in no time. Plus guys don’t learn how to eat and train right first they just shrink right up when they come off. I know what happens is they read about training and diet.lol But guys that have been at it along time know there is no cookie cutter diet or training for everybody. Guys need to learn what works for them.

 

[Hyde]

Was wondering if I should taper it, now I know for sure I should. Thanks. Do you think 500 mg with the largest bulus of carbs would be a good place to start?

Yes, that’s how we recommend Blue Sugar be dosed.

750mg is the highest daily dose in the pub med I’ve read. Most people can take 500/day before they get gut trouble, and like a third can do 750mg. You will never get to 1,500/day consistently unless you’re an anomaly. I can barely sustain 300/day due to loose stool. So my advice is start around there and go up 250/day every 5 days or so if you must til you **** your pants or hit 1,000. There’s just no need to take so much.

As long as you’re eating meals with carbs after dosing you shouldn’t go hypo, but I have personally when I didn’t eat enough after - it really does clear blood sugar very effectively. Respect it.

 

[Lionheart1776]

Yes, that’s how we recommend Blue Sugar be dosed.

750mg is the highest daily dose in the pub med I’ve read. Most people can take 500/day before they get gut trouble, and like a third can do 750mg. You will never get to 1,500/day consistently unless you’re an anomaly. I can barely sustain 300/day due to loose stool. So my advice is start around there and go up 250/day every 5 days or so if you must til you **** your pants or hit 1,000. There’s just no need to take so much.

As long as you’re eating meals with carbs after dosing you shouldn’t go hypo, but I have personally when I didn’t eat enough after - it really does clear blood sugar very effectively. Respect it.

Thanks for breaking it down for me Hyde, I would have really regretted starting it at to high of a dose. I can't believe how off base T-Nation is, the quote below was their recommendation and it was the top google results when I started my research on it. I wonder how many poor bastards **** themselves or went hypo based on that article, lol.

"500 mg three times per day (from supplement sources) resulted in an average weight loss of 5 pounds in one study. Other studies have used the same dosage, so it's safe to start there."

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Thanks for breaking it down for me Hyde, I would have really regretted starting it at to high of a dose. I can't believe how off base T-Nation is, the quote below was their recommendation and it was the top google results when I started my research on it. I wonder how many poor bastards **** themselves or went hypo based on that article, lol.

"500 mg three times per day (from supplement sources) resulted in an average weight loss of 5 pounds in one study. Other studies have used the same dosage, so it's safe to start there."

The only studies I’ve seen that dosed it that high used subjects with diabetes or non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, so not exactly healthy/normal subjects, which may have played a role in why higher doses were used (and able to be tolerated).

 

[Hyde]

Thanks for breaking it down for me Hyde, I would have really regretted starting it at to high of a dose. I can't believe how off base T-Nation is, the quote below was their recommendation and it was the top google results when I started my research on it. I wonder how many poor bastards **** themselves or went hypo based on that article, lol.

"500 mg three times per day (from supplement sources) resulted in an average weight loss of 5 pounds in one study. Other studies have used the same dosage, so it's safe to start there."

The only studies I’ve seen that dosed it that high used subjects with diabetes or non-alcoholic fatty liver disease, so not exactly healthy/normal subjects, which may have played a role in why higher doses were used (and able to be tolerated).

I believe what they were trying to say was they were taking the 500mg divided into 3 doses/day, so around 167mg/dose. I sure hope so at least!

Anyway, if I take Berberine I personally do split it up unless I’m eating a very big meal at once. I personally feel like I need at LEAST 25mg cho per 100mg dosed, more if training after the meal.

CL’s Blue Sugar is my favorite GDA, and Performax’s SlinMax is the next best one - the only thing I hate about it is the heartburn I get from Na-r-ala, but it works just as well.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I believe what they were trying to say was they were taking the 500mg divided into 3 doses/day, so around 167mg/dose. I sure hope so at least!

Anyway, if I take Berberine I personally do split it up unless I’m eating a very big meal at once. I personally feel like I need at LEAST 25mg cho per 100mg dosed, more if training after the meal.

CL’s Blue Sugar is my favorite GDA, and Performax’s SlinMax is the next best one - the only thing I hate about it is the heartburn I get from Na-r-ala, but it works just as well.

Some studies used 500mg three times a day, just not for healthy subjects. No need, or even reason, to do this for a normal/healthy person, and especially if you’re taking it with other ingredients for similar purposes, but it has been done in some studies. I agree that lower dosing is recommended and more than sufficient though for sure.

 

[HIT4ME]

Geez, I've used 1 gram 3x per day and didn't notice anything from it. Maybe some of it was junk that I got, but I have e used the powder from bulk supp and I could taste latex over through the capsules I put it in. It certainly tasted like everyone said berberine should taste. Aweful

 

[suavmcgauv]

Finishing my first blast on the 20th, started at 300mg per week of test C and tapered it up by 60mg per week every 2 weeks until hitting 500 (due to fear of sides). It completely ****ing changed me man, that's what inspired my interest in plastic surgery actually. The cycle results were far better than I could have ever hoped for, it made me wonder why not try to push for big wins in other areas as well. Doubling down on victory so to speak.

Sounds like a sick cycle, and way to go with a Test only run for your first go, sounds like you are on a roll. Hope that you have been keeping your Estrogen in check, 300, you might not need an AI, but you probably should. Also, plans for a PCT all squared away?

Doubling down is soo risky. Pick a goal, and know when to quit, like gambling. Plus not to mention, people will be haters because they want everyone to be on their average level. I would make the smallest changes that you can, and just keep improving yourself, so that nobody can hold you back or call you out, you already transformed your body. You gotta give the people around you a minute to catch up. Surgery is just too risky imo, and if anyone could tell i had had the surgery, I would hate that, and they probably would. My 2c, women choose the men that are winning in life against the other men, that simple. Put your obsessive mind to work figuring how to stash dollars, and women will follow.

 

[Matthersby]

My 2c, women choose the men that are winning in life against the other men, that simple. Put your obsessive mind to work figuring how to stash dollars, and women will follow.

This is such great advice. That’s what I was trying to say awhile ago. My college-drop-out azz wasn’t getting 10s in my 20s when I couldn’t pay my bills.

 

[mixedup]

I'm confused your blast ended on the 20th? We're you on this blast when you started? How long were you on.

 

[Lionheart1776]

I'm confused your blast ended on the 20th? We're you on this blast when you started? How long were you on.

So this blast was 12 weeks and this Thursday will be my first TRT pin in 12 weeks. And yep, I actually started it the day of my first real workout where I ever felt sore afterwards. It was a damn foolish thing to do admittedly, but can't say I regret it really. The frantic pressure it put on me to learn everything I could about diet and nutrition during the course can't be bought. It was a nice kick start to for sure, the only reason I can stomach being on TRT doses only for the next 9 months is because I know that cycle 2 will be all the better with all the other variables polished up a bit. I view the TRT as intentially handicapping myself in order to uncover weaknesses in other areas of my program, admittindly I did things a bit ass backwards compared to most trainers, lol.

 

[Hyde]

You need to cultivate a base of strength if you haven’t been. 5x5 type work on things like squat/bench/bb rows/ohp/deadlift right now could put as much mass on you as the cycle blast you just completed if you haven’t been raising your strength. It can mean big gains as a new lifter.

I gained 5lbs my first year lifting. Then I was recommended to do full body 5x5 training 3 days a week, and was told to eat big to get big. I gained 25 more lbs the next 6 months doing that lol.

 

[Newth]

You live one time ... no repeats no do overs... blah blah. Here’s the thing u ask a question u get answers ... we all know opinions are like a$$h@les everybody has one ... pick and choose as u wish... only you know what is gonna make u happy ... u desire it get it if u have the means to do so... good luck on your mission ... hope u find your pot of gold ... it’s always good to keep your flame burning kid once it’s gone it’s gone. Good luck chasing unicorns

Darlin. Dream's never die ...they just sleep sometimes.

 

[Newth]

See, listen to DemntedCowboy

If you own your ugly features, chicks dig that. Why do you think Lemmy kept those warts on his face?

Re-reading some of this thread made me laugh so hard.
Lemmy with Wursel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rh3Epkhc1FE

 

[swimfan65]

I cant belive this thread is still going. OP are you a greek god yet? From never lifting to greek god in what was it? 4 months?

 

[muscleupcrohn]

I cant belive this thread is still going. OP are you a greek god yet? From never lifting to greek god in what was it? 4 months?

It's not quite been two months yet; he still has a little more than halfway to go.

Which of the following will be the case? Will OP deliver?

 

[BlockBuilder]

Op needs to stop looking at Instagram. It’s destroying his self esteem

 

[Newth]

Op needs to stop looking at Instagram. It’s destroying his self esteem

Yeah I know right, Youtube can drag you in too

 

[Lionheart1776]

I cant belive this thread is still going. OP are you a greek god yet? From never lifting to greek god in what was it? 4 months?

Getting awfuly damn close, recon 5-10 more pounds of LBM after this cut is over will do the trick. 182 right now about 17-18% bodyfat. Going to cut to 165 and go for the last 5-10 lbs with a lean bulk. TRT at 200 slowed things down a little but still chugging along a an acceptable pace.

 

[swimfan65]

Getting awfuly damn close, recon 5-10 more pounds of LBM after this cut is over will do the trick. 182 right now about 17-18% bodyfat. Going to cut to 165 and go for the last 5-10 lbs with a lean bulk. TRT at 200 slowed things down a little but still chugging along a an acceptable pace. View attachment 172077

Your kidding right? It doesnt look like have ever lifted...not once. My kids in 8th grade and he puts you to shame. Come back in a decade

 

[swimfan65]

Cant help but be a d1ck, this kid is asking for it. So delusional. I mean...jesus...i just dont have the words.

 

[muscleupcrohn]

Getting awfuly damn close, recon 5-10 more pounds of LBM after this cut is over will do the trick. 182 right now about 17-18% bodyfat. Going to cut to 165 and go for the last 5-10 lbs with a lean bulk. TRT at 200 slowed things down a little but still chugging along a an acceptable pace. View attachment 172077

Progress is always nice, congrats, but you’re not close to Greek God status. Luckily this game is a marathon, not a sprint, so it’s all good. Learn to love the journey. It will take more than two more months, but so what? No big deal, no rush man.

 

[Lionheart1776]

Your kidding right? It doesnt look like have ever lifted...not once. My kids in 8th grade and he puts you to shame. Come back in a decade

My arms 15.6 and 15.9 inches (cold flexed) respectably, scale the rest of my body around that. Eat my ****ing dick swimfam! I haven't been rude to anyone on here but I am going to be rude to you right now since you feel like being and *******. Outside of my gym I rarely encounter someone in better shape than me. You might have a lot of muscle but YOU look like you don't even lift because of how much fat covers it up. You look like any other middle age bald guy to me in your pictures. Burly maybe, but any fat dude with a little shape can pull that look off. Take your hate and negativity elsewhere and do NOT post in my thread anymore. Thanks.

 

[Whisky]

Getting awfuly damn close, recon 5-10 more pounds of LBM after this cut is over will do the trick. 182 right now about 17-18% bodyfat. Going to cut to 165 and go for the last 5-10 lbs with a lean bulk. TRT at 200 slowed things down a little but still chugging along a an acceptable pace. View attachment 172077

Look bro, I’ll say this in a nice way but 5-10lbs of lean mass is not even close to anything that could be described as ‘greek God’ status. I’ve been there myself where I thought 10lbs would transform my look but it’s not close.

In reality (based on stuff you’ve said before) you need to be nearer 200lbs and 10% bf to have the look you want - it’s years and years of hard work away.

That said to be fair to you I personally think you might actually keep pushing on and will get there, I hope you do, but you gotta be realistic......

 

[Whisky]

Getting awfuly damn close, recon 5-10 more pounds of LBM after this cut is over will do the trick. 182 right now about 17-18% bodyfat. Going to cut to 165 and go for the last 5-10 lbs with a lean bulk. TRT at 200 slowed things down a little but still chugging along a an acceptable pace. View attachment 172077

Look bro, I’ll say this in a nice way but 5-10lbs of lean mass is not even close to anything that could be described as ‘greek God’ status. I’ve been there myself where I thought 10lbs would transform my look but it’s not close.

In reality (based on stuff you’ve said before) you need to be nearer 200lbs and 10% bf to have the look you want - it’s years and years of hard work away.

That said to be fair to you I personally think you might actually keep pushing on and will get there, I hope you do, but you gotta be realistic......

 

[Lionheart1776]

Look bro, I’ll say this in a nice way but 5-10lbs of lean mass is not even close to anything that could be described as ‘greek God’ status. I’ve been there myself where I thought 10lbs would transform my look but it’s not close.

In reality (based on stuff you’ve said before) you need to be nearer 200lbs and 10% bf to have the look you want - it’s years and years of hard work away.

That said to be fair to you I personally think you might actually keep pushing on and will get there, I hope you do, but you gotta be realistic......

For me in an abstract and unimportant target at this point I want the proportions perhaps a bit scaled down. I see my final numbers looking around 170-175ish at 9-10%. For me that's more than adequate as long as I have similar lines as the statues albeit smaller actual muscle size. I recon I can get there by march or so without to much fuss. I've been able to dial things in real good so far.