PES Norcodrene ??

mr.cooper69 said:
You should read coop's corner #4. There are few compounds that can take you down 2% body fat when already shredded in a matter of weeks, legal or not. Yohimbine is one of them
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I'm still waiting on my bottle coop :-p

Just playin. Gotta bulk till after the Arnold. Then killin some fat cells
 
Philosophy said:
He was stating that you have to perform exercise after yohimbine ingestion to achieve effective fat loss. Which is the case with that soccer study as soccer players run many kms during training/games.
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Exercise is not a pre-requisite for fat loss with yohimbine, it is simply the best setting with which to ingest yohimbine as insulin is low and fat oxidation is high.

Regardless, I'm hoping most people here won't just take norcodrene and sit on their butts for 4 weeks straight. We're all fairly active in this community so beta-oxidation is a non-issue
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Exercise is not a pre-requisite for fat loss with yohimbine, it is simply the best setting with which to ingest yohimbine as insulin is low and fat oxidation is high.

Regardless, I'm hoping most people here won't just take norcodrene and sit on their butts for 4 weeks straight. We're all fairly active in this community so beta-oxidation is a non-issue
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So it can free up fatty acids and use them? Ive never really looked into y as i cannot get it in NZ.

Ill read the thread
 
Jiigzz said:
So it can free up fatty acids and use them? Ive never really looked into y as i cannot get it in NZ.

Ill read the thread
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You're looking at this too myopically. Fatty acids and glucose are used round-the-clock for energy. If fatty acids are available, they will get used for the most part. The fat "redistribution" effect is more relegated to topical fat burners
 
Is there any possible negative interactions with Norcodrene with say ephedrine/clen or would they work synergistically? Also, if one were to use hormonal products, would it be beneficial to use Norcodrene on a cut or would there be any counter productive/negative interactions with combining the two? Sorry if the answer seems obvious.
 
chedapalooza said:
Is it even possible it was from that though? U ate during that time too, which would render it ineffective, no? But I'm sorry to hear.

On a side, if u wanna send them to me, ill cover shipping :D
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Yeah trust me sometimes yohimbes effects are delayed and last awhile. redline kept me up for two days once because of it.

I can work that out. Pm me and I will spread the PES love.

On a side note, I have a serving to two of my friends and they were blown away. I'm just very overly sensitive to the stuff. Side effects weren't terrible but noticeable so might as well wait for the international version
 
mr.cooper69 said:
Hmm, I'm not sure that's norcodrene at that point. Did you consume any nonstims like tyrosine/dopa at any time period .
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No just Gatorade and then I ate dinner and it lessened. Yohimbe behaves very strangely like that for me and I am hypersensitive to it. I want to give you and PES some props on the formulation though. Looks to be really interesting stuff and I'm definitely anxious to get my hands on the international version.

Thanks again to nattydisaster and PES for the opportunity. I think this will be a great product.

Now to stock up on some of the new anabeta
 
Looks like my order is going to be here Wednesday, hopefully in the morning so I can try it out that day.

T-Bone said:
I thought the body used glucose preferentially. The only reason the body will use fatty acids is if glucose is not available. Correct?.
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I believe you use both at the same time, then depending on current activity level/availability the amount is skewed one way or the other.
 
T-Bone said:
Not possible. The body preferentially burns glucose. When stored glucose(glycogen) is used up then the body burns fat. This is whole point of low or no carbohydrate diets. At least this is my (simplified) basic understanding of how this works. I'm just stating this because I don't participate in useless online arguments.
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It's very possible to burn both at the same time. Substrate usage is dimmer switches and not 100% of anything. At rest, the body is using fatty acids as the primary energy source. During exercise, it depends on the ration of oxygen to carbon dioxide being used. The higher the intensity, then the higher the rate of glucose being used.
 
T-Bone said:
Not possible. The body preferentially burns glucose. When stored glucose(glycogen) is used up then the body burns fat. This is whole point of low or no carbohydrate diets.

At least this is my (simplified) basic understanding of how this works. I'm just stating this because I don't participate in useless online arguments.
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I was always under the impression that you will use glucose as much as possible, but will also, to a much smaller degree, utilize free fatty acids when present in the blood stream. Then the amount used of each changes in response to what you're doing, such as high intensity sports (ATP and glycogen mainly) or walking (glycogen and fat). I could be wrong, this is just what I've always thought occurred.
 
T-Bone said:
Thank you both for your answers. I have a basic general understand of this concept. I'm sure there is a bit more to it though. Hey Rodja, or maybe even Cooper, if you are reading this. Do you guys know of a good book that describes this more in depth?. I'm interested in something that doesn't lean to far to either side. I know some books are pro keto and some are anti-keto. I'd like to read an author that gives credence to each, discussing faults and benefits of each.
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This is just basic ex phys and has nothing to do with keto.
 
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T-Bone said:
Not possible. The body preferentially burns glucose. When stored glucose(glycogen) is used up then the body burns fat. This is whole point of low or no carbohydrate diets.

At least this is my (simplified) basic understanding of how this works. I'm just stating this because I don't participate in useless online arguments.
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The body prefers glucose but is constantly using both. Again, the body is a dynamic system, not cut and dry[/FONT]
 
BlackWinging said:
I was always under the impression that you will use glucose as much as possible, but will also, to a much smaller degree, utilize free fatty acids when present in the blood stream. Then the amount used of each changes in response to what you're doing, such as high intensity sports (ATP and glycogen mainly) or walking (glycogen and fat). I could be wrong, this is just what I've always thought occurred.
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Yeah nah you don't use as much CHO (be it from serum glucose/glycogen stores) as possible all the time. The ratio of fat:CHO stores being utilised for energy is greatest at low intensity exercise, and lowest at high intensity exercise.

Be careful with the "ATP/glycogen" for high intensity and "glycogen/fat" for low intensity - ATP is the final energy molecule that fats/carbohydrates are converted to and hence what is utilised for EVERY muscle contraction, not just high intensity ones. It's just the source of the ATP (fats or CHO) that changes with workout intensity :)
 
Rodja said:
It's very possible to burn both at the same time. Substrate usage is dimmer switches and not 100% of anything. At rest, the body is using fatty acids as the primary energy source. During exercise, it depends on the ration of oxygen to carbon dioxide being used. The higher the intensity, then the higher the rate of glucose being used.
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This to a T.

T-Bone, pick up a basic physiology book or google energy systems and it should explain the process. It is rather complex and the more basic the book, the more simplified the explanation. Just try not to get books or look at articles that are diet related as they tend to skew the words to favour their argument.
 
thedudesdad said:
Total cals on the cut per day around 2200. I usually break the fast with about 800-1000 cals
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Ok. I train fasted on weekends but I drink bcaa pre and intra and post workout a protein shake.

I never did the whole train fasted and consume only bcaa for a few hours post.

Must be a nice meal when u break that fast
 
halfhuman said:
Ok. I train fasted on weekends but I drink bcaa pre and intra and post workout a protein shake.

I never did the whole train fasted and consume only bcaa for a few hours post.

Must be a nice meal when u break that fast
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martin also recommends you to take BCAA's pre-workout not starting at intra-workout, would be ideal to get some aminos in your system before you engage in weights IMO

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No need to get caught up with 20 BCAA servings a day.

For the past 2 years on most days I fast the entire day and consume a BCAA+EAA pre workout at 9pm, eat all my calories (2,300) at 10pm.
 
mirra250 said:
Yeah nah you don't use as much CHO (be it from serum glucose/glycogen stores) as possible all the time. The ratio of fat:CHO stores being utilised for energy is greatest at low intensity exercise, and lowest at high intensity exercise.

Be careful with the "ATP/glycogen" for high intensity and "glycogen/fat" for low intensity - ATP is the final energy molecule that fats/carbohydrates are converted to and hence what is utilised for EVERY muscle contraction, not just high intensity ones. It's just the source of the ATP (fats or CHO) that changes with workout intensity :)
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Ahh, thank you for this. I fudged up and used ATP instead of phosphocreatine, which wasn't really necessary to use to begin with, I didn't know fat was used much at rest as it is. Always good to learn basic physiology.
 
The Solution said:
Muscle Protein Synthesis is not on your side.
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To be honest I have made great progress, perhaps will compete someday soon (you're a great inspiration).

What needs to changed/improved? I'm all ears.

Also it's very convenient, I don't worry about training/eating until the end of the day. Albeit I do take fat burners and recently bought some HICA to supplement during the day.
 
Philosophy said:
To be honest I have made great progress, perhaps will compete someday soon (you're a great inspiration).

What needs to changed/improved? I'm all ears.

Also it's very convenient, I don't worry about training/eating until the end of the day. Albeit I do take fat burners and recently bought some HICA to supplement during the day.
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Philosophy said:
To be honest I have made great progress, perhaps will compete someday soon (you're a great inspiration). What needs to changed/improved? I'm all ears. Also it's very convenient, I don't worry about training/eating until the end of the day. Albeit I do take fat burners and recently bought some HICA to supplement during the day.
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You should be good if you are dosing HICA during your fast.
 
Philosophy said:
Thanks, will have a read.

I still don't think the benefits will outweigh the convenience though.
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if that is the case, provide some quality research of eating 1x a day as optimal for protein synthesis. i doubt you will find much to support that. sure it may be convenient, but is it really optimal especially if you are wanting to "Compete" eating that way?

imagine how your peak week would go eating 1x a day.
 
The Solution said:
if that is the case, provide some quality research of eating 1x a day as optimal for protein synthesis. i doubt you will find much to support that. sure it may be convenient, but is it really optimal especially if you are wanting to "Compete" eating that way?

imagine how your peak week would go eating 1x a day.
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Oh, don't get me wrong when events pop up such as bulking/competing I will make the required adjustments.

On my bulks/re-feeds I get in 4k+ calories and eat the entire day.
 
The Solution said:
if that is the case, provide some quality research of eating 1x a day as optimal for protein synthesis. i doubt you will find much to support that. sure it may be convenient, but is it really optimal especially if you are wanting to "Compete" eating that way?

imagine how your peak week would go eating 1x a day.
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Peak week for me was once a day, aminos every few hours

Actually worked out great
 
BlackWinging said:
Ahh, thank you for this. I fudged up and used ATP instead of phosphocreatine, which wasn't really necessary to use to begin with, I didn't know fat was used much at rest as it is. Always good to learn basic physiology.
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That's ok :) ohh ok well yeah you're right in the case that PCr is important for high intensity exercise in the very short term, but it's important to note that this does not actually synthesise new ATP molecules, but rather regenerates ATP from the ADP by-product post contraction, and hence doesn't contribute to energy expenditure directly overall :)
And yeah fat is the main energy substrate at rest! Provided it isn't immediately post-prandial and dietary fats are present
 
This is definitely an exciting new product.
 
I can't see your question. What was it?
 
bdcc said:
I can't see your question. What was it?
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Hi bdcc, it was a few pages back.

Is there any possible negative interactions with Norcodrene with say ephedrine/clen or would they work synergistically? Also, if one were to use hormonal products, would it be beneficial to use Norcodrene on a cut or would there be any counter productive/negative interactions with combining the two? Sorry if the answer seems obvious.

Thanks
 
EBF Inc said:
Peak week for me was once a day, aminos every few hours Actually worked out great
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The Solution said:
How did you place?
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EBF Inc has some interesting research that showed eating less meals/day actually boosted metabolism to burn 20% more kcals for a period. Thus making it a solid strategy for peak week as you could eat the same cals, just in less meals, and see better results. I don't have the link but I'm sure he can supply it
 
Alasel said:
Hi bdcc, it was a few pages back.

Is there any possible negative interactions with Norcodrene with say ephedrine/clen or would they work synergistically? Also, if one were to use hormonal products, would it be beneficial to use Norcodrene on a cut or would there be any counter productive/negative interactions with combining the two? Sorry if the answer seems obvious.

Thanks
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This is a tough one for anyone affiliated with PES to answer because we cannot recommend anyone uses ephedrine or clenbuterol for obvious reasons.
 
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