Pepti-Plex - Sleep Feedback?

[Jojogreen]

First, if this is in the wrong spot please move it.

So I bought 3 bottles of Pepti-Plex by SNS during the holidays on special. I almost never blind buy in bulk, but the deal was too good and I got got.

I say "blind buy" because I have had never even taken one bottle of PeptiPlex before but had been looking at it for a few weeks beforehand. So this was my first time taking the product.

For background I am 30 years old, military veteran, and experienced athlete and lifter and supplement user AS WELL as a formulator. I have come up with various blends for companies and essentially ghostwritten other ones. Only to say, that I know decently about what I am talking about from a user and creator standpoint.

I had no real reason to doubt any of the ingredients in this formulation of PeptiPlex. It isn't a very complicated supplement, especially compared to a lot of the other stuff we all take lol. It's a pretty simple blend. For recap that formulation is

2400mg of Peptistrong
300mg of VasoFlo+
50mg Apigenin
50mg of SenActiv
50mg of Astragin
10mg of BioPerine

Now onto the Review.

I was primarily interested in this product for two ingredients. SenActiv and PeptiStrong. Which I think carry the supplement without a doubt based on other reviews I've read as well. SenActiv is a supplement I've taken before back when it was sold individually(I miss those days). It's based off Ginseng, so it CAN have somewhat of a stimulation effect, however I don't know if I ever remember getting insomnia off it. Whatever stimulation it gives isn't really super strong, it's effect is obviously mostly for recover through senescent cells and things of that nature. I also used to take 100mg so I doubt that is the ingredient that gave me insomnia.

I've also taken bioperine and astragin many many times and had zero issues with these( and actively take product with them in it, so I doubt these were the issue)

So that leads us to the two things here that I believe are the culprit. Firstly, the Apigenin in this supplement is extremely powerful and the dosage borders on unnecessarily high. The bizarre thing about this supp, is that I kept getting dog tired and wiped out a few hours after taking it. Of course, I knew it was Apigenin a supp famous for making you sleepy, but this was next level. I was doing the two caps in the morning and two in the evening protocol a lot of people suggested here. Even with two caps, getting hit with 25mg of Apigenin is like a low dose tranquilizer and even on a big dude like me had me rocking and nodding off. The effect of this did not diminish with further usage. So there was no "tolerance" built to it. I've taken apigenin before and do remember it making you sleepy, but boy this stuff is even more potent. It could be that it interacts with something in the formula, maybe the Vasoflow, but most likely it's probably the extra uptake and absorption from the Astragin but this thing hits like a mack truck. I think a future formulation of this could or should have this greatly reduced in dosage to maybe 10mg or even eliminate it, as the Astragin likely enhances it's effects greatly and basically becomes a low dose ambien. Not bad if you are taking it at night and need to sleep, but therein lies your biggest problem and where the formulation starts to conflict with itself.

I'm guessing it has to be either the VasoFlo or Peptistrong itself. As those are the only two ingredients left. VasoFlo is a supplement based off of green and black leaf tea extracts. Personally, and yes I understand that SNS will probably say it has some "recovery benefit" but I think this product does not fit the formulation and does more harm than good. Green tea is known to be stimulating.

I also want to make another thing very clear for this review. And this is important. I have only dealt with periodic insomnia for a short time this is not a major issue in my life or anything of that nature. The only times I've gotten it is when I've taken supplements that are too stimulating in general. Even if my mind is racing, I can turn that off and go to sleep military style. Sometimes you can have a person who is extremely prone or sensitive to certain things be set off by very low dosages of stuff, but I would say I am a good crash test dummy for how effective a supplement is at giving someone insomnia for that reason. I am not super supp sensitive NOR does every little thing keep me up at night. THIS SUPP KEPT ME UP.

The ONLY way I could explain it, is that it felt like my brain had blood rushing to it. Blood rushing SPECIFICALLY to the part, that makes your brain not want to power down during sleep. Very similar to taking a blood flow/vasodialation type supp which fits completely with the name "VASOFLO". However, other vasodialotors do not work this way. I can take a variety of supps that increase blood flow to the max and be knocked out in a few hours with zero problem.

They aren't kidding when they say it(VASOFLO) gives you blood flow. Unfortunately it is just too much, to the wrong place, at the wrong time. I could be laying there, dead tired from the Apigenin and still couldn't go to sleep. It was actually funny after the 4th or 5th time, I laid in bed one night LAUGHING at how tired my eyes were, feeling like I was on an ambien, but my brain was pushing so much blood it wouldn't "turn off" for me to go tin the first phase of sleep. I tested this about 10-15 different times over two month and kept getting the same results. I didn't want it to be the case so badly, because I bought 3 bottles of this stuff and was really excited for it. Like more excited than I've been for any supp in a LONG time.

However, every night I got insomnia, the following day or two was miserable trying to get back on schedule and track and I just got tired of it after awhile. I kept not wanting it to be true, but the effect was consistent everytime. Extreme drowsiness, followed by high brain alertness and an inability to get to the first phase of sleep. On the plus side, I think the Peptistrong works fine, but the VASOFLO insomnia was kind of preventing me from truly testing it's recovery capabilities. I think the rest of the formulation aside from the extremely high Apigenin is legit and works fine.

Going forward I'm looking to just find a supplement with just Peptistrong in it and take that. I'll have to look for a new supplement SenActiv in it, to get my fill of that, and I think I will avoid VASOFLO or other green tea/black tea extracts as sure they work, but the side effects are work the blood flow they give.

I also want to also emphasize because this is a forum of fiercely loyal, highly happy customers who almost never post anything negative and anyone who does is seen as the "bad guy" or enemy. I do NOT want this to taken as any sort of negativity towards SNS or the guys behind SNS. My experiences with the company have been positive, both on the forum and off. So please do not attack me for simply stating my experience, and trying to help people who may have also had this experience with this supp, but were afraid to come here to the wolves den and post about it either due to fear of being attacked or scrutinized or whatever. I'm still a huge fan of SNS and they were to release a supp with just Peptistrong, Astragin and Senactiv I would buy it in a heartbeat for the same price that PeptiPlex is now.

 

[Segansational]

Interesting effect for you. Having taken two bottles already, with 2 more on the way, can't say I ever had an issue with it having any sort of "stimulating" effect personally. But, I also take it first thing in the morning with a pre-WO anyways.

 

[max silver]

I certainly can't say my experience using Peptistrong has been anything resembling your own. I am very sensitive to supplements causing me to not be able to get back to sleep if I wake up mid evening, but this supplement has actually had the reverse effect for me where I've experienced much higher sleep quality while using this product and experienced zero issues with getting to sleep, even when taking an early evening dose. I found that taking extra Apigenin right before bed enhanced the sleep improvement effects further compared to Peptistrong on it's own as well. This sounds like a formulation that doesn't work for you personally and as such it's simply not right for your body. I'm curious to see if anyone else has similar issues to yourself as I've read nothing but positive feedback up to this point.

 

[Danksta710]

I've been taking 2 caps 3x a day for a very long time and never experienced anything like that. The apigenin imo is a great addition as it helps with deeper sleep. Sorry to hear you had different results.

FYI there is a single ingredient Senactiv coming out soon from Steve.

 

[Resolve10]

It is unfortunate you felt that way, but Steve formulated this with some very specific interactions in mind and the Apigenin and Vasoflo have key methods of action that help lead to a very strong overall recovery orientation to this product. It is very much a "wellness" and performance product and you can see that in how many people not only notice muscle recovery, but just overall feelings of things feeling better in their joints, tendons, and other areas you wouldn't have immediately expected.

While I feel for you, as it sucks when something doesn't work the way you'd like, it is important to understand this is probably quite a rare experience.

If I can elaborate I'd look to the idea of removing the two areas you didn't like.

First, with apigenin many have been looking for a well dosed product with this ingredient for awhile based on positive studies in regards to hypertrophy. It wasn't easy to find and the main product offering it for awhile didn't have feedback in regards to causing levels of drowsiness. Also, CEL offers a much higher dosed single capsule product with people dosing up to 12x the amount in this product at various dosing schedules and while increased sleep quality is a pronounced effect, very few have noted negative issues at other times of day (which makes sense based on its MOA, but again individual responses may vary).

Second, while I don't think it is fair to fully group them all together and it is a more complicated subject than many on here are probably aware, but simply removing Vasoflo won't make sense considering the plethora of other tea based vasodilator products that are and have been on the market for years. If it was the case that this caused that strong of a reaction in even a small subset of individuals removing it from the product would also leave all the pump products on the market still using them (and nearly every brand seems to have one) and disregarding my doubts of everyone's quality standards we would still see this be a common complaint if it really were a wide spread issue (people have been using Vaso6 for years now).

Again sorry you had a poor reaction, but sleep is complicated so there is always a chance of things being an issue given certain individual predispositions for things, but I think these ingredients offer a lot of benefits that fit what Steve really wanted to do with this product and why feedback has been so good and given the value proposition I'd be sad to see them removed at this time.

FWIW I've been using it since it was initially bottled and labeled non-stop with no issues personally.

 

[poison]

Everyone is different. There are popular supps here that have crushed me with tiredness, it happens. I took a couple bottles of Peptiplex and had zero issue with either sleepiness or wakefulness (I WISH it would do either, lol), regardless of time of day taken.

 

[kfinle1]

As an old and often tired guy---this review makes me want to buy Peptiplex!

 

[sns8778]

Edited for context - thread title has been changed. My initial replies about the negativity of the thread title were related to the original title.

If you didn't want this to be taken negatively or seem more like an attack than a review, you wouldn't have named your thread title what you did, nor would you have written the last paragraph of it the way that you did - with the passive aggressive tone.

You also manage to take multiple shots at me and the company in your post and act like I don't spend a ton of time helping people on here; and you also act like I don't, more than anyone else here, talk about how different things affect people differently.

I have no issue with you or anyone sharing personal response to a supplement - different people respond differently to different things; but anyone doing that should do so in a respectful manner and not intentionally post false information.

It's interesting that you claim to be a formulator, but you provided blatantly false information on at least 3 ingredients - maybe this is misunderstanding, maybe its intentional. See, I wouldn't expect a consumer to know the info, but you're the one that claims to be a formulator.

Your statement on Senactiv was:
SenActiv is a supplement I've taken before back when it was sold individually(I miss those days). It's based off Ginseng, so it CAN have somewhat of a stimulation effect, however I don't know if I ever remember getting insomnia off it.

^^^ that is not true. Senactiv is a clinically researched specialized extract from Panax notoginseng and Rosa Roxburdhii. The genus families are related, but the effects are very different than Panax Ginseng. It is also 100% stimulant free and can be used before bedtime. (If you have an argument about that, take it up with Nuliv, the patent holder bc I'm not stating my opinion, I'm stating facts).

Your statement on Apigenin was:
Firstly, the Apigenin in this supplement is extremely powerful and the dosage borders on unnecessarily high. The bizarre thing about this supp, is that I kept getting dog tired and wiped out a few hours after taking it. Of course, I knew it was Apigenin a supp famous for making you sleepy, but this was next level. I was doing the two caps in the morning and two in the evening protocol a lot of people suggested here. Even with two caps, getting hit with 25mg of Apigenin is like a low dose tranquilizer and even on a big dude like me had me rocking and nodding off. The effect of this did not diminish with further usage. So there was no "tolerance" built to it. I've taken apigenin before and do remember it making you sleepy, but boy this stuff is even more potent. It could be that it interacts with something in the formula, maybe the Vasoflow, but most likely it's probably the extra uptake and absorption from the Astragin but this thing hits like a mack truck. I think a future formulation of this could or should have this greatly reduced in dosage to maybe 10mg or even eliminate it, as the Astragin likely enhances it's effects greatly and basically becomes a low dose ambien. Not bad if you are taking it at night and need to sleep, but therein lies your biggest problem and where the formulation starts to conflict with itself.

^^^ You're complaining bc Apigenin is dosed at 50 mg., yet that is a very well studied dosage and there are many supplements that use 200 mg. per dose. Example - Api-Plex contains 200 mg. per capsule + Apigenin and Bioperine and many people take 2 to 3 capsules per day. It helps with restful sleep, but generally doesn't make anyone sleepy. Different people are different, but you're acting like 50 mg. a day is 'unnecessarily high'.

Also, the reason for Apigenin being added to the supplement have absolutely zero to do with sleep. It is added because of how well researched it is for lean muscle, strength, numerous overall health benefits, and its anti-aging & longevity benefits.

Your next statement:
I'm guessing it has to be either the VasoFlo or Peptistrong itself. As those are the only two ingredients left. VasoFlo is a supplement based off of green and black leaf tea extracts. Personally, and yes I understand that SNS will probably say it has some "recovery benefit" but I think this product does not fit the formulation and does more harm than good. Green tea is known to be stimulating.

Here is where you take one of your shots towards me.

Since you claim to be a formulator, you should know then that specialized extracts of Black and Green Tea can be caffeine free and non-stimulating.

So, you think I would say that VasoFlo is included for recovery? That's interesting, being that I've never said that. To the contrary, here is the reason that VasoFlo is included, and its written clearly in the product write up:

Green Tea and Black Tea constituents have been studied extensively for their effects on cardiovascular health, blood flow, metabolic health, weight management, body-composition, immune support, and a wide variety of other benefits.

Also, in recent years, there have been a number of studies that link Black Tea & Green Tea to a variety of anti-aging and longevity benefits.

Even though these exciting ingredients are constituents of Black Tea and Green Tea, they are all specific components/extracts that would be difficult to consume large enough quantities of through regular Green Tea and Black Tea to elicit results, which is why specialized extracts of these ingredients exist.

VasoFlo+ is a specialized green & black tea extract combination.

Also, since you think it does more "harm than good", I'd like to point out that Nuritas and Price Plow have both commented on how the inclusion of VasoFlo helped distinguish Pepti-Plex as a great anti-aging and longevity product because the variety of health benefits offered by it work so well with the methods of action of the other ingredients.

Your next statement:
The ONLY way I could explain it, is that it felt like my brain had blood rushing to it. Blood rushing SPECIFICALLY to the part, that makes your brain not want to power down during sleep. Very similar to taking a blood flow/vasodialation type supp which fits completely with the name "VASOFLO". However, other vasodialotors do not work this way. I can take a variety of supps that increase blood flow to the max and be knocked out in a few hours with zero problem.

If you had just posted this - without all of the other false nonsense, I would have been the first one to say that different things work different for different people. I talk about that all the time, and have given examples of how some things affect me differently than others.

But its pretty obvious in reading this, that it wasn't your point to be objective with the discussion.

Blood flow supplements do NOT make blood rush to your or anyone else's brain. There is nothing about any ingredient that makes it say, oh, I'm only going to increase blood flow to the brain. Hell, I wish that were true bc if we could increase cerebral blood flow without increasing it other places, bc that could help with so many neurological conditions and I'd be rich. Sadly, that's not the case nor the way supplements work.

As far as the continued knocks against VasoFlo, we were one of the first to market this ingredient, but you'll see it this year included in a lot of cardiovascular, endothelial health, and longevity products - that's the main target market for it. It is not an ingredient that the company plans to market hardly at all in the sports nutrition category, so even though it is good for blood flow and can help with pumps, that's not at all the primary reason for this ingredient being included in the product.

I do agree though that VasoFlo is great for blood flow - but I can tell you 100% that it isn't specifically to the brain because we've had so much feedback in middle age to older males about how its improved their erection quality. Although we could inset a fun joke here about that being where a lot of guys brains are to begin with

Your next comment:
I also want to also emphasize because this is a forum of fiercely loyal, highly happy customers who almost never post anything negative and anyone who does is seen as the "bad guy" or enemy. I do NOT want this to taken as any sort of negativity towards SNS or the guys behind SNS. My experiences with the company have been positive, both on the forum and off. So please do not attack me for simply stating my experience, and trying to help people who may have also had this experience with this supp, but were afraid to come here to the wolves den and post about it either due to fear of being attacked or scrutinized or whatever. I'm still a huge fan of SNS and they were to release a supp with just Peptistrong, Astragin and Senactiv I would buy it in a heartbeat for the same price that PeptiPlex is now.

^^^ that's what I mean about your passive aggressive nature of your post.

If you didn't want this post to be taken negatively, you wouldn't have titled your thread or wrote it the way you did.

So basically, everyone that has had a positive experience with something is either lying or attacking you by sharing their own experiences?

See, there's ways to go about things and have respectful conversation and learn things. I would have been glad to have a discussion about the ingredients, why they're dosed the way they are, why they're included, etc. Everyone on here that reads my posts knows I enjoy interacting with people and that I love discussing the ingredients and science and that I would have no problem with that.

The issue is though that that wasn't the way you presented it, nor what you wanted. Instead, you post something trying to make sure yourself seem like some ultra-knowledgeable formulator and then write out false statements about multiple ingredients to try to back the narrative you're trying to push.

 

[sns8778]

Interesting effect for you. Having taken two bottles already, with 2 more on the way, can't say I ever had an issue with it having any sort of "stimulating" effect personally. But, I also take it first thing in the morning with a pre-WO anyways.

Pepti-Plex is stimulant free. Some people report that they feel better during the day and have more of a vitality type of energy, which makes perfect sense with it helping with muscle health and healing and senescent cell clearance.

I certainly can't say my experience using Peptistrong has been anything resembling your own. I am very sensitive to supplements causing me to not be able to get back to sleep if I wake up mid evening, but this supplement has actually had the reverse effect for me where I've experienced much higher sleep quality while using this product and experienced zero issues with getting to sleep, even when taking an early evening dose. I found that taking extra Apigenin right before bed enhanced the sleep improvement effects further compared to Peptistrong on it's own as well. This sounds like a formulation that doesn't work for you personally and as such it's simply not right for your body. I'm curious to see if anyone else has similar issues to yourself as I've read nothing but positive feedback up to this point.

I'm the same with you. My sleep quality has improved noticeably on it and I too take extra Apigenin before bed.

I've been taking 2 caps 3x a day for a very long time and never experienced anything like that. The apigenin imo is a great addition as it helps with deeper sleep. Sorry to hear you had different results.

FYI there is a single ingredient Senactiv coming out soon from Steve.

Thank you for posting your experience. I agree, I love Apigenin bc it helps improve sleep quality without actually making me sleepy. It helps me relax, but isn't sedating at all.

It is unfortunate you felt that way, but Steve formulated this with some very specific interactions in mind and the Apigenin and Vasoflo have key methods of action that help lead to a very strong overall recovery orientation to this product. It is very much a "wellness" and performance product and you can see that in how many people not only notice muscle recovery, but just overall feelings of things feeling better in their joints, tendons, and other areas you wouldn't have immediately expected.

While I feel for you, as it sucks when something doesn't work the way you'd like, it is important to understand this is probably quite a rare experience.

If I can elaborate I'd look to the idea of removing the two areas you didn't like.

First, with apigenin many have been looking for a well dosed product with this ingredient for awhile based on positive studies in regards to hypertrophy. It wasn't easy to find and the main product offering it for awhile didn't have feedback in regards to causing levels of drowsiness. Also, CEL offers a much higher dosed single capsule product with people dosing up to 12x the amount in this product at various dosing schedules and while increased sleep quality is a pronounced effect, very few have noted negative issues at other times of day (which makes sense based on its MOA, but again individual responses may vary).

Second, while I don't think it is fair to fully group them all together and it is a more complicated subject than many on here are probably aware, but simply removing Vasoflo won't make sense considering the plethora of other tea based vasodilator products that are and have been on the market for years. If it was the case that this caused that strong of a reaction in even a small subset of individuals removing it from the product would also leave all the pump products on the market still using them (and nearly every brand seems to have one) and disregarding my doubts of everyone's quality standards we would still see this be a common complaint if it really were a wide spread issue (people have been using Vaso6 for years now).

Again sorry you had a poor reaction, but sleep is complicated so there is always a chance of things being an issue given certain individual predispositions for things, but I think these ingredients offer a lot of benefits that fit what Steve really wanted to do with this product and why feedback has been so good and given the value proposition I'd be sad to see them removed at this time.

FWIW I've been using it since it was initially bottled and labeled non-stop with no issues personally.

Great post.

I found it interesting that he felt the need to nit pick the formula, nut never stated what he was actually looking for or hoping for out of the formula to begin with.

Something that stood out to me about the 'review' here is that he focused on one thing that he says was negative, but never mentioned a single positive - yet claims to like the ingredients in the product and wants to buy some of them separately to use. If that's the case, shouldn't there be some positives experienced that could have been shared? That's a big part of what strikes me as having an agenda with the post.

I'm always glad to discuss personal response with anyone, and I love discussing the ingredients, science, and formulations - heck, there's a whole thread devoted to just that subject.

Also, I have a hard time believing that someone, anyone, took something for 2 months straight that caused insomnia. I would tell anyone, no matter who it is or what the product/ingredient is, different things work different for different people and if someone really experiences that, then they shouldn't continue it for that long.

 

[Danksta710]

Almost like someone else has a Peptistrong product coming out... Yea I will say that.

 

[sns8778]

Almost like someone else has a Peptistrong product coming out... Yea I will say that.

I don't know if that's the case, but mentioning supposedly being a formulator and then doing a hit piece type review, I can see how it would come off that way.

I always find it interesting when brands or people associated with brands take approaches like that.

PeptiStrong is a great ingredient, but it can be formulated with different ways for different results.

I can think of at least 4 different types of products I could use PeptiStrong in for different types of results. Where I'm going with that is that its a good ingredient, but its how it works with other ingredients that it's used with that correlate to a lot of the results with it.

Pepti-Plex is a great product and its great that it includes Pepti-Plex, but there's a lot more to Pepti-Plex than just PeptiStrong.

I feel like a lot of people really miss out on the scope of overall potential benefits by only focusing on PeptiStrong and not focusing on how PeptiStrong works with the other ingredients.

 

[max silver]

I don't know if that's the case, but mentioning supposedly being a formulator and then doing a hit piece type review, I can see how it would come off that way.

I always find it interesting when brands or people associated with brands take approaches like that.

PeptiStrong is a great ingredient, but it can be formulated with different ways for different results.

I can think of at least 4 different types of products I could use PeptiStrong in for different types of results. Where I'm going with that is that its a good ingredient, but its how it works with other ingredients that it's used with that correlate to a lot of the results with it.

Pepti-Plex is a great product and its great that it includes Pepti-Plex, but there's a lot more to Pepti-Plex than just PeptiStrong.

I feel like a lot of people really miss out on the scope of overall potential benefits by only focusing on PeptiStrong and not focusing on how PeptiStrong works with the other ingredients.

I'll admit I was a little disappointed when I saw that Pepti-plex was a formula vs a single ingredient item given my own various sensitivities but I am very glad that I made the decision to give it a shot as it's a fantastic formula with a multitude of benefits beyond simple physique enhancement. Do you envision any scenario where you could eventually offer Peptistrong as a standalone ingredient for those who want to play around with dosing a bit? I'd like to add a little more Peptistrong around workouts in the future to gauge effects and it would be great to have the ability to toy around with the ingredient on it's own.

I had the same feeling as you that it was rather ironic that this poster claimed they were not trying to be negative towards SNS but then proceeded to harshly criticize your chosen formula and directly intimate that this formula was problematic for the population at large vs not being appropriate on an individual level. This post appeared to be largely written in an attempt to start a fight but then hypocritically claimed to be something else.

 

[PolishHamm3r77]

I have had the deepest REM sleep since taking Pepti-Plex. I have mentioned it in other threads. I take 2 caps in a.m. and 2 caps post workout which is usually around 8pm. A lot of thought went into writing this original post and it’s title. I grew up w a mother who had a PHD in Passive Aggressive and this is it by definition

VIVA la Pepti-Plex!!!!!

 

[baldwanus]

Comparing 25mg of Apigenin to a 'low dose tranquilizer'... lol

 

[Joshlm69]

I seem to be a bad responder to a lot of supplements. Where people get boundless energy, lots of libido etc, I tend to not get those or actually get the opposite.

Just because something affects you differently, doesn’t mean that occurs to the masses.

The absolute last thing I do is then make a thread completely shitting on the company then saying “I hope he doesn’t view this as an attack”.

Very poorly executed I must say

 

[sns8778]

I have had the deepest REM sleep since taking Pepti-Plex. I have mentioned it in other threads. I take 2 caps in a.m. and 2 caps post workout which is usually around 8pm. A lot of thought went into writing this original post and it’s title. I grew up w a mother who had a PHD in Passive Aggressive and this is it but definition

VIVA la Pepti-Plex!!!!!

Absolutely agree - can relate to the background you shared as its very much like mine, and to this being the definition of passive aggressive.

We've had so much feedback on it helping with restful sleep and recovery and improved sleep scores.

If this was a true attempt at seeking an answer or discussion for why someone may respond to something differently than many other people, it would have been asked in the Pepti-Plex or the Tell Us What You Want from us discussion thread - or even if he felt the need to make a separate thread on it, it wouldn't have been titled the way it was.

It wasn't trying to ask or learn anything - on one hand, he said he was a formulator, but then proceeded to provide false and misleading information on 3 separate ingredients in the formula, including one that he supposedly likes (Senactiv). I wouldn't expect a customer/consumer to necessarily know all the details about ingredients, but to call oneself a formulator and then proceed to say that Senactiv is stimulating (it isn't), that 25 mg. Apigenin is like a tranquillizer, and then to say that VasoFlo is a stimulant bc its derived from Green and Black tea (it's stimulant free) and then to say that it increases blood flow specifically to the brain - which would be awesome if it did, but is scientifically impossible.

If something could actually improve blood flow to the brain without increasing it anywhere else, that would be super exciting because it would hold so much premise for BDNF and a variety of cognitive and aging disorders.

But also, it definitely isn't just helping blood flow to the brain bc we don't mention improved erection quality at all, but we've had so many reports of positive feedback on that and people asking privately about that. I had one funny email from a mildly traumatized guy in his 40's that buys it for his dad and his dad asking him why it made 'down there' feel like it was awake and alive again haha.


I always enjoy discussing the science behind things and am always open to discussing individual response to different things, but this thread wasn't made in a way of trying to ask or lean anything. It was, as you said, a hit piece type of post that had a lot of time and thought put into it with the goal being to bash something and framing it like anyone that disagreed with him was attacking or scrutinizing him.

I'm not putting the guy down as I don't dislike him, don't know him, and would be glad to discuss any individual response issues to anything with him or anyone else, but its pretty obvious that this wasn't the intention and it isn't the way to go about creating an actual discussion.

 

[Wobmarvel]

I don't get it. I thought his initial post was fine. And the last paragraph wasn't passive aggressive either. Some people on here are just a bit overly sensitive. I've taken SNS products and got nothing from them and I've taken other SNS products that have been amazing for me (I still fully recommend inhibit E to anyone living with gyno). I think the guy was just trying to explain how he believes it was the supplement itself and not just a coincidence that he had insomnia at the same time. He said if SNS release another product with less ingredients he would buy it in a heartbeat. You are acting like he was telling people to not trust SNS and never buy their stuff.

 

[sns8778]

I don't get it. I thought his initial post was fine. And the last paragraph wasn't passive aggressive either. Some people on here are just a bit overly sensitive. I've taken SNS products and got nothing from them and I've taken other SNS products that have been amazing for me (I still fully recommend inhibit E to anyone living with gyno). I think the guy was just trying to explain how he believes it was the supplement itself and not just a coincidence that he had insomnia at the same time. He said if SNS release another product with less ingredients he would buy it in a heartbeat. You are acting like he was telling people to not trust SNS and never buy their stuff.

I'm not being sensitive about it at all. I took the time to reply and break down the different portions to it. Most companies would have reported the post immediately and had it deleted bc its against forum rules for someone that works for or is affiliated with another company to post a negative review about a competitors product.

Instead, I took the time to reply to it in detail, but I did address and point out the parts that are false.

There were parts of his post that were fine - but there are parts that were just complete false information.

If someone wants to discuss personal experiences with a product, cool.

If someone says, hey, product XYZ affects me differently than a lot of people and here's how it affected me - cool. You've probably seen me do that myself anytime I say how I respond to something differently than other people.

If someone responds different to something, I guarantee you that you can put the term 'different things work different for different people' in the search function, and if it works, you'll see that I've posted that 20x more than anyone else in the history of AM.

I think the part that caused him to come off wrong to most people was that he presented himself as a formulator for other companies and then stated several things about ingredients that are factually incorrect:

• Like calling 25 mg. of Apigenin a tranquilizer and implying that there was something wrong with using 50 mg. in a formula, when there are plenty of people that take 400 to 600 mg. per day or more.
• Saying that Senactiv is stimulating when the company that has the patent has spent a fortune and has numerous studies showing it works by non-stimulant methods of action.
• Saying that VasoFlo has caffeine in it (it doesn't) and saying that it does something that is scientifically impossible.

Opinions are opinions and everyone is entitled to their own - but facts are facts, and facts should never be lied about or misrepresented in order to further someone's opinion.

Plus, for something to be a review, generally the positives and negatives of something would be discussed. His post was a long post bashing multiple ingredients with factually incorrect statements while claiming to be a formulator for a different company and never once attempted to do an actual review of discussing positives and negatives.

 

[sns8778]

I'll admit I was a little disappointed when I saw that Pepti-plex was a formula vs a single ingredient item given my own various sensitivities but I am very glad that I made the decision to give it a shot as it's a fantastic formula with a multitude of benefits beyond simple physique enhancement. Do you envision any scenario where you could eventually offer Peptistrong as a standalone ingredient for those who want to play around with dosing a bit? I'd like to add a little more Peptistrong around workouts in the future to gauge effects and it would be great to have the ability to toy around with the ingredient on it's own.

I had the same feeling as you that it was rather ironic that this poster claimed they were not trying to be negative towards SNS but then proceeded to harshly criticize your chosen formula and directly intimate that this formula was problematic for the population at large vs not being appropriate on an individual level. This post appeared to be largely written in an attempt to start a fight but then hypocritically claimed to be something else.

I'm really glad that you like the formula. It's a very complexly done formula and the ingredients work together in a lot of way, some of which is something I plan on writing some articles about when I have time to.

I don't have any plans right now to do a single ingredient PeptiStrong, but if you want to add more around your workout, if all goes well, you'll be very very happy sometime during the summer as we do plan on using it in something else that will help increase daily dosing on workout days. But its important for people to understand that its still important to be taken daily for best results though.

Agreed on how it appeared and came off. I'm all about fostering ingredient discussion and conversation, but that's not the way it came off at all.

 

[botk1161]

OP did u find any threads or reviews of the product (there are numerous on this forum) where anyone experienced insomnia? I bought a couple of cans and have not used them yet, but I did not buy them before waiting for and sifting through lots of feedback on the product. I have sleep problems and cannot use anything that is stimulating in this way. This is the first I have heard of this side effect. Since your a special case, is it possible that there may be other factors contributing to your insomnia at this time?

 

[sns8778]

OP did u find any threads or reviews of the product (there are numerous on this forum) where anyone experienced insomnia? I bought a couple of cans and have not used them yet, but I did not buy them before waiting for and sifting through lots of feedback on the product. I have sleep problems and cannot use anything that is stimulating in this way. This is the first I have heard of this side effect. Since your a special case, is it possible that there may be other factors contributing to your insomnia at this time?

We've never had anyone report any negative effects on sleep, but have had a lot of people report improvements in sleep, along with some people sharing improved sleep scores on it.

A lot of people have commented about that in this thread - with it helping their sleep, so those are some good places to look.

Also, there is a lot of feedback in the Pepti-Plex thread discussing different things that people see from it. I am linking to page 6 because that's where a lot of the feedback starts, but its a good read overall if you feel like reading all of it.

Pepti-Plex - Natural Anabolic Muscle Builder - Powered by AI Discovered Natural Anabolic Peptides - AnabolicMinds.com

I felt it on a jog. Second day in. Not going to lie. Something was up! Glad this was mentioned. Almost immediately this gave any cardio I do more pep. Uncontrollable pep once you get going. So far it seems to help with pumps. I am full. Recovery is very nice so far and it's only 1 week in. I...

anabolicminds.com

 

[Jojogreen]

OP did u find any threads or reviews of the product (there are numerous on this forum) where anyone experienced insomnia? I bought a couple of cans and have not used them yet, but I did not buy them before waiting for and sifting through lots of feedback on the product. I have sleep problems and cannot use anything that is stimulating in this way. This is the first I have heard of this side effect. Since your a special case, is it possible that there may be other factors contributing to your insomnia at this time?

I did not find any. But then again, there aren't that many PeptiPlex reviews on the web. It's limited to here and pretty much only got glowing reviews so not a lot to go off of. Almost no supplement doesn't have some negative effect on some people, and with limited reviews to go off of, it was just a leap of faith. As I stated everything aside from the VASOFLO I think worked as intended, but I believe that one supplement may keep you up. To answer your last question, I doubt it, because as soon as I quit running PeptiPlex my insomnia went away. I tested it on and off about 10-15 times to make sure that's what caused it to avoid any false positives. Also it didn't seem to effect me too badly the first day or two I took it, but after the 3rd that's when the insomnia really started to kick in. I would maybe run a bottle and see how you do, just don't buy 3 at once like I did.

 

[Jojogreen]

I'm really glad that you like the formula. It's a very complexly done formula and the ingredients work together in a lot of way, some of which is something I plan on writing some articles about when I have time to.

I don't have any plans right now to do a single ingredient PeptiStrong, but if you want to add more around your workout, if all goes well, you'll be very very happy sometime during the summer as we do plan on using it in something else that will help increase daily dosing on workout days. But its important for people to understand that its still important to be taken daily for best results though.

Agreed on how it appeared and came off. I'm all about fostering ingredient discussion and conversation, but that's not the way it came off at all.

I stated my background just to assure you I wasn't a troll who had no idea what he was talking about or hadn't taken supps before, or had zero experience in this field. I've taken all the major big brand supps, and worked with various companies to formulate other products. I've been on teams and helped run booths at Supply Side West, NutraIngredients etc and given presentations on a few products. If you are going to give a review on a computer, it would make sense to state whatever tech experience you have before you give a statement. That's not "flexing" or anything it's just to provide some context.

Second and most importantly, I didn't attack you at all. I truly apologize if that's how it came off. Before you decided to rampage against me randomly for this review, I would have probably said you were one of my favorite brands and you specifically were one of my favorite CEOs I've ever dealt with. I've recommended your products to several people, including some pretty big time influencers who said they got better results with SNS products than anything else. I currently run Paradoxine and Cocobuterol in my stack for cutting. I've done nothing but support, recommend, and praise this brand from day 1. And I've also talked to you offline(but you probably didn't know it was me) and had nothing but good things to say.

So for you to react so wildly because I said I got insomnia is bizarre to me. I wrote the specifically post to try to state that it was NOT about SNS or anything to do with SNS's products or about you at all. i did not not ever even mention you other than a few sentences where I praised the brand. Did I not specifically write an entire paragraph explaining that? You just jumped in here on full attack mode, ready to snap, even accusing me of being some potential competitor which is hilarious. I will take a screen shot right now of my cabinet with SNS products firmly on the front of the shelf. Relax, it's a review. It was my personal experience with your product. I did not intend any ill will with it, or trust me my words would have been significantly more scathing. Attacking me like this is like the CEO of Ghost coming out and personally going after every 1 star review on their Amazon page(which would be 1000s) for a bad reaction to their pre workouts. It's odd, especially against someone like me who has supported the company and never attacked you first.

I hope this clears this up but yeah, if you come out with a SenActiv, Peptistrong, Actigin product I'd buy it for 50 dollars for a 30 day supply. I don't think the VASOFLO is needed. The apigenin while effective for some people, definitely hits me extremely hsrd. Prevents me from taking it in the morning or else I'm just drowsy. Clearly, a lot of people had good results from it, I just didn't. And that's okay.

 

[Jojogreen]

It is unfortunate you felt that way, but Steve formulated this with some very specific interactions in mind and the Apigenin and Vasoflo have key methods of action that help lead to a very strong overall recovery orientation to this product. It is very much a "wellness" and performance product and you can see that in how many people not only notice muscle recovery, but just overall feelings of things feeling better in their joints, tendons, and other areas you wouldn't have immediately expected.

While I feel for you, as it sucks when something doesn't work the way you'd like, it is important to understand this is probably quite a rare experience.

If I can elaborate I'd look to the idea of removing the two areas you didn't like.

First, with apigenin many have been looking for a well dosed product with this ingredient for awhile based on positive studies in regards to hypertrophy. It wasn't easy to find and the main product offering it for awhile didn't have feedback in regards to causing levels of drowsiness. Also, CEL offers a much higher dosed single capsule product with people dosing up to 12x the amount in this product at various dosing schedules and while increased sleep quality is a pronounced effect, very few have noted negative issues at other times of day (which makes sense based on its MOA, but again individual responses may vary).

Second, while I don't think it is fair to fully group them all together and it is a more complicated subject than many on here are probably aware, but simply removing Vasoflo won't make sense considering the plethora of other tea based vasodilator products that are and have been on the market for years. If it was the case that this caused that strong of a reaction in even a small subset of individuals removing it from the product would also leave all the pump products on the market still using them (and nearly every brand seems to have one) and disregarding my doubts of everyone's quality standards we would still see this be a common complaint if it really were a wide spread issue (people have been using Vaso6 for years now).

Again sorry you had a poor reaction, but sleep is complicated so there is always a chance of things being an issue given certain individual predispositions for things, but I think these ingredients offer a lot of benefits that fit what Steve really wanted to do with this product and why feedback has been so good and given the value proposition I'd be sad to see them removed at this time.

FWIW I've been using it since it was initially bottled and labeled non-stop with no issues personally.

Thanks for the mature response. This is what I expected this thread to be like.

I left this paragraph out, but I also believe that sometimes the source/supplier of ingredients makes a huge difference. Whatever it is in this product makes me pretty damn tired with a few hours of taking it. With only 50mg of Apigenin being stated, it's entirely possible whoever is suppling the Api is using a super strong batch of it. I think we've all seen supps where it says 5grams of this 8 grams of this or whatever and you take it and barely feel anything. Other supps have half the dosage and hit like a truck within 5 minutes. Same ingredients, less dosage, and yet stronger response. That plus the Actigin and Bioperine increasing absorption is likely why the effect is so strong. I've also taken Apigenin before as you stated in higher dosage products and it didn't do much to me. Yet this one did. So that lends my theory to the supplier using a stronger strain/variation some credence.

 

[sns8778]

Thanks for the mature response. This is what I expected this thread to be like.

I left this paragraph out, but I also believe that sometimes the source/supplier of ingredients makes a huge difference. Whatever it is in this product makes me pretty damn tired with a few hours of taking it. With only 50mg of Apigenin being stated, it's entirely possible whoever is suppling the Api is using a super strong batch of it. I think we've all seen supps where it says 5grams of this 8 grams of this or whatever and you take it and barely feel anything. Other supps have half the dosage and hit like a truck within 5 minutes. Same ingredients, less dosage, and yet stronger response. That plus the Actigin and Bioperine increasing absorption is likely why the effect is so strong. I've also taken Apigenin before as you stated in higher dosage products and it didn't do much to me. Yet this one did. So that lends my theory to the supplier using a stronger strain/variation some credence.

The dosage of Apigenin is listed clearly on the label.

Not the dosage of total plant material - the actual dose of Apigenin.

It's the exact same Apigenin that is in Api-Plex, which is 200 mg. of Apigenin + 25 mg. AstraGin + 5 mg. of Bioperine per capsule.

CEL Api-Plex - 200 mg. Apigenin per Capsule - Available Now - AnabolicMinds.com

Anabolic Phytonutrient & Muscle Builder Novel Muscle Building Supplement 200 Mg. Apigenin (as ApiPure™) 25 Mg. AstraGin® 5 mg. Bioperine® 18,000 Mg. (18 Grams) Apigenin Per Bottle Api-Plex Highlights/Supports: Lean Muscle & Strength Gains Increases in Stamina & Endurance Novel Muscle...

anabolicminds.com

If you don't like or can't take Apigenin, that's no issue and is an individual response thing - but there's no reason to bash the ingredient or make false statements about it and say things like 25 mg. of it is a tranquilizer when that's just not true at all. Many of the studies involving elderly people for prostate and other issues used far higher doses than that.

The link above provides 6 pages of feedback on people running much higher dosages that enjoy it.

That's the thing - its possible to share personal feedback and the way that things affect us as individuals without actually saying false things about the ingredients themselves.

 

[sns8778]

I stated my background just to assure you I wasn't a troll who had no idea what he was talking about or hadn't taken supps before, or had zero experience in this field. I've taken all the major big brand supps, and worked with various companies to formulate other products. I've been on teams and helped run booths at Supply Side West, NutraIngredients etc and given presentations on a few products. If you are going to give a review on a computer, it would make sense to state whatever tech experience you have before you give a statement. That's not "flexing" or anything it's just to provide some context.

Second and most importantly, I didn't attack you at all. I truly apologize if that's how it came off. Before you decided to rampage against me randomly for this review, I would have probably said you were one of my favorite brands and you specifically were one of my favorite CEOs I've ever dealt with. I've recommended your products to several people, including some pretty big time influencers who said they got better results with SNS products than anything else. I currently run Paradoxine and Cocobuterol in my stack for cutting. I've done nothing but support, recommend, and praise this brand from day 1. And I've also talked to you offline(but you probably didn't know it was me) and had nothing but good things to say.

So for you to react so wildly because I said I got insomnia is bizarre to me. I wrote the specifically post to try to state that it was NOT about SNS or anything to do with SNS's products or about you at all. i did not not ever even mention you other than a few sentences where I praised the brand. Did I not specifically write an entire paragraph explaining that? You just jumped in here on full attack mode, ready to snap, even accusing me of being some potential competitor which is hilarious. I will take a screen shot right now of my cabinet with SNS products firmly on the front of the shelf. Relax, it's a review. It was my personal experience with your product. I did not intend any ill will with it, or trust me my words would have been significantly more scathing. Attacking me like this is like the CEO of Ghost coming out and personally going after every 1 star review on their Amazon page(which would be 1000s) for a bad reaction to their pre workouts. It's odd, especially against someone like me who has supported the company and never attacked you first.

I hope this clears this up but yeah, if you come out with a SenActiv, Peptistrong, Actigin product I'd buy it for 50 dollars for a 30 day supply. I don't think the VASOFLO is needed. The apigenin while effective for some people, definitely hits me extremely hsrd. Prevents me from taking it in the morning or else I'm just drowsy. Clearly, a lot of people had good results from it, I just didn't. And that's okay.

Edited for context - thread title has been changed from what it originally was. My initial replies about the negativity of the way the thread was titled relate to the original title of it.

I don't care about your background, but I would just think that if you have the background that you say, as someone who claims to have worked in the industry, that you would know better than to make false statements about ingredients and especially ingredients owned by larger branded ingredient companies like Nuliv or making claims like 25 mg. of Apigenin is a tranquilizer.

There was no other way for it to come off, and you know exactly what you did. If you didn't mean it the way it came off, you wouldn't have titled the thread the way you did.

And no, you didn't post a review - you posted factually incorrect information about 3 different ingredients. An actual review would be discussing what someone does or doesn't like about something.

If you wanted to discuss Pepti-Plex and sleep, you could have titled it something like - "Pepti-Plex - Sleep Experiences".

Instead you titled it in a negative way to cause conflict.

If you had posted it is in a a discussion manner and then asked for other's experiences, I would have been glad to discuss it with you and try to figure out why you respond to it the way that you say you do.

Different things work different for different people. If it interfered with your sleep, that's an individual type of thing - but instead of saying that, you stated factually false information about 3 different ingredients.

My reaction to you isn't because you said it gives you insomnia - again, different things work different for different people.

I react to some things differently than other people, but you'll never see me go on a tangent and bash their formula or ingredients and you'll never see me say things about ingredients that are factually incorrect, like what you said about Senactiv or Apigenin or VasoFlo. Instead, I'll say something like - I realize that most people really enjoy _______ ingredient, but for me it does _______, but I realize that's just an individual response that I have to it and that most people seem to like it.

I never said you were a competitor. Someone else did, and I said that I wasn't sure if that was true, but I could see how it came off that way - bc you went into so much detail saying false things about particular ingredients. Plus, you're the one that put in your initial post how you formulate for different brands before you started bashing the formula.

I haven't reacted 'to you' at all - I stated that your opinion is your own - I reacted to the false statements that you made and the way you went about it, and provided factually correct answers to the false things you said about certain ingredients.

If you don't want someone to reply to false statements that you make, don't make false statements. Again, your opinion is your own, and your individual experience is your own - but that doesn't give you the right to lie about ingredients. And if you truly worked in the industry, it seems like you'd have the respect for people like Nuliv and the research they've funded on Senactiv, to not want to post false information about it.

I could care less if you or anyone else is a competitor. I spend a good portion of my average day working on things for 'competitors' because I do formulation and raw material sourcing for over a dozen brands, and we do warehousing and distribution for for more than that. I work with competing brands all the time and some of my closest friends are other brand owners. I worry about what we do, not what other brands do.

No, I didn't come on here in attack mode. I was actually quite surprised at how disrespectful the thread title was and how you claimed it to be a review - when you literally didn't review anything, just complained about insomnia and then proceeded to bash ingredients and say false things about them. It's perfectly fine to not like a product or ingredients, but that doesn't make it okay to lie about and provide false information on the ingredients to deceive and confuse others. If you don't want someone to reply to you on that, then don't do it.

I didn't attack you at all - your whole post seemed like you were trying to start drama rather than have product or ingredient discussion, or you would have went about it differently. And had you gone about it in a respectful manner, I would have been more than glad to discussed anything with you that you would have liked to.

I try to help everyone in any way that I possibly can. I love the science and the ingredients, and make myself available more than any other company owner that I'm aware of to discuss ingredients. It's my passion, as I've worked on the raw material side for over 20 years.

It's not how you responded to an ingredient or product or sharing your feedback on that - it's how you titled the thread and how you went about it, and the false statements that you made about ingredients. And I don't mean your personal results, I mean the false statements that you made about the ingredients themselves.

 

[Jojogreen]

Edited for context - thread title has been changed from what it originally was. My initial replies about the negativity of the way the thread was titled relate to the original title of it.

I don't care about your background, but I would just think that if you have the background that you say, as someone who claims to have worked in the industry, that you would know better than to make false statements about ingredients and especially ingredients owned by larger branded ingredient companies like Nuliv or making claims like 25 mg. of Apigenin is a tranquilizer.

There was no other way for it to come off, and you know exactly what you did. If you didn't mean it the way it came off, you wouldn't have titled the thread the way you did.

And no, you didn't post a review - you posted factually incorrect information about 3 different ingredients. An actual review would be discussing what someone does or doesn't like about something.

If you wanted to discuss Pepti-Plex and sleep, you could have titled it something like - "Pepti-Plex - Sleep Experiences".

Instead you titled it in a negative way to cause conflict.

If you had posted it is in a a discussion manner and then asked for other's experiences, I would have been glad to discuss it with you and try to figure out why you respond to it the way that you say you do.

Different things work different for different people. If it interfered with your sleep, that's an individual type of thing - but instead of saying that, you stated factually false information about 3 different ingredients.

My reaction to you isn't because you said it gives you insomnia - again, different things work different for different people.

I react to some things differently than other people, but you'll never see me go on a tangent and bash their formula or ingredients and you'll never see me say things about ingredients that are factually incorrect, like what you said about Senactiv or Apigenin or VasoFlo. Instead, I'll say something like - I realize that most people really enjoy _______ ingredient, but for me it does _______, but I realize that's just an individual response that I have to it and that most people seem to like it.

I never said you were a competitor. Someone else did, and I said that I wasn't sure if that was true, but I could see how it came off that way - bc you went into so much detail saying false things about particular ingredients. Plus, you're the one that put in your initial post how you formulate for different brands before you started bashing the formula.

I haven't reacted 'to you' at all - I stated that your opinion is your own - I reacted to the false statements that you made and the way you went about it, and provided factually correct answers to the false things you said about certain ingredients.

If you don't want someone to reply to false statements that you make, don't make false statements. Again, your opinion is your own, and your individual experience is your own - but that doesn't give you the right to lie about ingredients. And if you truly worked in the industry, it seems like you'd have the respect for people like Nuliv and the research they've funded on Senactiv, to not want to post false information about it.

I could care less if you or anyone else is a competitor. I spend a good portion of my average day working on things for 'competitors' because I do formulation and raw material sourcing for over a dozen brands, and we do warehousing and distribution for for more than that. I work with competing brands all the time and some of my closest friends are other brand owners. I worry about what we do, not what other brands do.

No, I didn't come on here in attack mode. I was actually quite surprised at how disrespectful the thread title was and how you claimed it to be a review - when you literally didn't review anything, just complained about insomnia and then proceeded to bash ingredients and say false things about them. It's perfectly fine to not like a product or ingredients, but that doesn't make it okay to lie about and provide false information on the ingredients to deceive and confuse others. If you don't want someone to reply to you on that, then don't do it.

I didn't attack you at all - your whole post seemed like you were trying to start drama rather than have product or ingredient discussion, or you would have went about it differently. And had you gone about it in a respectful manner, I would have been more than glad to discussed anything with you that you would have liked to.

I try to help everyone in any way that I possibly can. I love the science and the ingredients, and make myself available more than any other company owner that I'm aware of to discuss ingredients. It's my passion, as I've worked on the raw material side for over 20 years.

It's not how you responded to an ingredient or product or sharing your feedback on that - it's how you titled the thread and how you went about it, and the false statements that you made about ingredients. And I don't mean your personal results, I mean the false statements that you made about the ingredients themselves.

My personal experiences aren't "false statements".

You keep repeating that, but it means nothing. Nor did I come in here to start drama, the one who flew off the handle was you. Anyone who reads the thread normally can see that. You seem to have calmed down since your original series of comments attacking me and now are reading it, and realize that I never attacked you nor SNS anywhere in my post. All I said is the formulation didn't work for me. That's it. Literally the mildest of the supplement takes in the history of supplement reviews ever.

Again I praised the the brand and SNS which you keep ignoring since it doesn't fit your narrative that I came in trying to sabotage you. My initial title was only different by one world. I originally just put "Peptiplex Insomnia A 2 Month Review" But decided that vague and went back added in Peptiplex/SNS to specific the brand. That's it. Literally.

You just keep saying I'm "making stuff up or making false statements". Which isn't the case.

You've shown probably the worst way to handle any sort of criticism online publicly as a brand and an owner. If I WAS a competitor, you would have done the work for me. Nobody else responded that way but you which says a lot. You are one of those business owners who are cool to help people who are buying, quick to upvote positive comments, but as soon as you see something you didn't like, got paranoid, and just started going off on me without even fully reading the post. Taking everything literally as an attack towards you, even when I specifically wrote that it wasn't. Next time relax and quit assuming someone is trying to "start drama". I'm literally one of your biggest brand supporters in person dude.

 

[Admin]

For future reference, If you are with a company or associated with a company that does not sponsor AM, you are not allowed to post reviews of products, period.

 

[sns8778]

My personal experiences aren't "false statements".

You keep repeating that, but it means nothing. Nor did I come in here to start drama, the one who flew off the handle was you. Anyone who reads the thread normally can see that. You seem to have calmed down since your original series of comments attacking me and now are reading it, and realize that I never attacked you nor SNS anywhere in my post. All I said is the formulation didn't work for me. That's it. Literally the mildest of the supplement takes in the history of supplement reviews ever.

Again I praised the the brand and SNS which you keep ignoring since it doesn't fit your narrative that I came in trying to sabotage you. My initial title was only different by one world. I originally just put "Peptiplex Insomnia A 2 Month Review" But decided that vague and went back added in Peptiplex/SNS to specific the brand. That's it. Literally.

You just keep saying I'm "making stuff up or making false statements". Which isn't the case.

You've shown probably the worst way to handle any sort of criticism online publicly as a brand and an owner. If I WAS a competitor, you would have done the work for me. Nobody else responded that way but you which says a lot. You are one of those business owners who are cool to help people who are buying, quick to upvote positive comments, but as soon as you see something you didn't like, got paranoid, and just started going off on me without even fully reading the post. Taking everything literally as an attack towards you, even when I specifically wrote that it wasn't. Next time relax and quit assuming someone is trying to "start drama". I'm literally one of your biggest brand supporters in person dude.

I don't have to calm down because I was never mad to begin with.

I edited my post bc the thread title changed. I was actually going to edit the one above this again, just to make it easier to read because I was writing a reply while pausing to do other things and realized it didn't flow well and was kind of hard to read.

I replied to the false statements that you made about the ingredients.

And I'll clarify for the 4th or 5th time - by false statements, I'm not talking about your experience or opinions.

I'm talking about the false statements you made about 3 different ingredients.

• You said that the Apigenin amount was unnecessarily high - which is false. The amount of Apigenin in the product is the higher end dosing side used in the Korean studies for muscle building. However, there has been research on much higher dosing that 50 mg. and it's very common for people to take much higher dosages.
• You called 25 mg. of Apigenin like a tranquilizer, which is untrue and kind of ridiculous.
• You said that Senactiv was stimulating because its based off of Ginseng, when its actually Panax notoginseng, and Nuliv has shown in studies that it works through stimulant free methods of action; so leading people to think that it is a stimulant is very deceiving and misleading.
• You said that VasoFlo had caffeine in it bc its from black and green tea, and that's not true.
• You also said that VasoFlo does something that is scientifically impossible.
• Then, you said that SNS would say VasoFlo was in the product for recovery, so I had posted directly from the write up the reason for its inclusion, in detail - and I have no idea why you would say that we would claim it to be in there for something that isn't a reason for including it.

Expressing experiences, personal results, or opinions does not equal making false statements about ingredients.

You, me, or anyone else can like or dislike a product (our opinion), respond to products differently (our results), but that doesn't mean that we should lie about ingredients and confuse or deceive other people.

I fully read your post and fully replied to your post - including explaining from post #1 that my issue had nothing to do with your experience or you sharing your experience, it was with the false statements you made about the ingredients.

I never said that you were trying to sabotage anything - the product feedback speaks for itself.

It's ironic that you say I'm someone that only helps people when they're buying a product - because I talk about a ton of brands on here that I have zero to do with and make zero off of, but suggest them to people so they can know where to look for quality products and not get ripped off. Plus, there are a lot of people on here that can speak to how I help people on here, and in private about things all the time that have nothing to do with supplements at all.

 

[Jojogreen]

For future reference, If you are with a company or associated with a company that does not sponsor AM, you are not allowed to post reviews of products, period.

Not with any company anymore. Working on starting my own business in Fin Management. But will take that into account.

 

[Jojogreen]

I don't have to calm down because I was never mad to begin with.

I edited my post bc the thread title changed. I was actually going to edit the one above this again, just to make it easier to read because I was writing a reply while pausing to do other things and realized it didn't flow well and was kind of hard to read.

I replied to the false statements that you made.

And I'll clarify for the 4th or 5th time - by false statements, I'm not talking about your experience or opinions.

I'm talking about the false statements you made about 3 different ingredients.

• You said that the Apigenin amount was unnecessarily high - which is false. The amount of Apigenin in the product is the higher end dosing side used in the Korean studies for muscle building. However, there has been research on much higher dosing that 50 mg. and it's very common for people to take much higher dosages.
• You called 25 mg. of Apigenin like a tranquilizer, which is untrue and kind of ridiculous.
• You said that Senactiv was stimulating because its based off of Ginseng, when its actually Panax notoginseng, and Nuliv has shown in studies that it works through stimulant free methods of action; so leading people to think that it is a stimulant is very deceiving and misleading.
• You said that VasoFlo had caffeine in it bc its from black and green tea, and that's not true.
• You also said that VasoFlo does something that is scientifically impossible.
• Then, you said that SNS would say VasoFlo was in the product for recovery, so I had posted directly from the write up the reason for its inclusion, in detail - and I have no idea why you would say that we would claim it to be in there for something that isn't a reason for including it.

Expressing experiences, personal results, or opinions does not equal making false statements about ingredients.

You, me, or anyone else can like or dislike a product (our opinion), respond to products differently (our results), but that doesn't mean that we should lie about ingredients and confuse or deceive other people.

I fully read your post and fully replied to your post - including explaining from post #1 that my issue with it wasn't related to your experience or you sharing your experience, it was with the false statements you made about the ingredients.

I never said that you were trying to sabotage anything - the product feedback speaks for itself.

It's ironic that you say I'm someone that only helps people when they're buying a product - because I talk about a ton of brands on here that I have zero to do with and make zero off of, but suggest them to people so they can know where to look for quality products and not get ripped off. Plus, there are a lot of people on here that can speak to how I help people on here, and in private about things all the time that have nothing to do with supplements at all.

I've read hundreds of posts by you and talked to you in person, you definitely took it personally. Because you usually don't respond like this. In fact, I could say if we're having this conversation in person and I said the exact same thing you probably would have been chill and just willing to listen to what I was saying and recommended another product instead of just jumping down my throat right away.

So let's get to your bullet points.

I said I had zero issues with anything else in this product aside from the VASOFLO and the Apigenin and I've taken them all before(except Peptistrong). I never blamed SenActiv for it, if you read the comment I said I didn't think SenActiv was what was keeping me awake because I used to take 100mg daily and had zero issues with sleep. That paragraph is pretty clear.

Second, you keep trying to technically break down all of these points as if it means anything. As some way to make my review any less accurate. It's just a review. I used my experience to try to see what was specifically stimulating my brain to keep me awake at night(despite being extremely drowsy). That's literally all I was doing. You are expecting some type of PHD level biochemical breakdown, or something. I explained it to the best of my abilities to explain it. And you keep referring to one quote about targeting SNS because I said "SNS will probably say it's for recovery" that wasn't an insult Steve. It was just a statement.

Again, quit taking this like a direct attack against you or your brand. I put a paragraph in there directly to say it wasn't. I think that's the 10th time I've said it now. You just aren't someone who can take any sort of criticism well. It's pretty obvious. When people agree with you or are buying you are super nice, but otherwise it's "they are here to start drama", you didn't even try to have a regular conversation. I came home from work to see you had basically started just going at me. It's whatever though, I'm done arguing about it. One of the most bizarre experiences I've ever had with a brand that I've supported for a long time.

 

[sns8778]

I've read hundreds of posts by you and talked to you in person, you definitely took it personally. Because you usually don't respond like this. In fact, I could say if we're having this conversation in person and I said the exact same thing you probably would have been chill and just willing to listen to what I was saying and recommended another product instead of just jumping down my throat right away.

So let's get to your bullet points.

I said I had zero issues with anything else in this product aside from the VASOFLO and the Apigenin and I've taken them all before(except Peptistrong). I never blamed SenActiv for it, if you read the comment I said I didn't think SenActiv was what was keeping me awake because I used to take 100mg daily and had zero issues with sleep. That paragraph is pretty clear.

Second, you keep trying to technically break down all of these points as if it means anything. As some way to make my review any less accurate. It's just a review. I used my experience to try to see what was specifically stimulating my brain to keep me awake at night(despite being extremely drowsy). That's literally all I was doing. You are expecting some type of PHD level biochemical breakdown, or something. I explained it to the best of my abilities to explain it. And you keep referring to one quote about targeting SNS because I said "SNS will probably say it's for recovery" that wasn't an insult Steve. It was just a statement.

Again, quit taking this like a direct attack against you or your brand. I put a paragraph in there directly to say it wasn't. I think that's the 10th time I've said it now. You just aren't someone who can take any sort of criticism well. It's pretty obvious. When people agree with you or are buying you are super nice, but otherwise it's "they are here to start drama", you didn't even try to have a regular conversation. I came home from work to see you had basically started just going at me. It's whatever though, I'm done arguing about it. One of the most bizarre experiences I've ever had with a brand that I've supported for a long time.

The interesting thing about you is the passive aggressiveness and the way that just like the original post, you put a compliment followed by an insult later on for things. Like your comment about only helping people that are buying something, there are plenty of people on here that can tell you that's not the truth.

If you actually knew anything about SNS or the people involved in our research and projects, you would know that constructive criticism is at the heart of a lot of the design projects here. We throw around ideas, beat up each others ideas, and from working on the raw material side for 20+ years, talk to some of the smartest scientists in the world about different projects.

You say I didn't try to have a regular conversation - you didn't try to have a discussion.

You posted a thread with a negative title and called it a review, when in reality, you didn't actually review anything. You identified yourself as a formulator and then proceeded to critique the formula; the problem was a lot of the information you posted about the ingredients was false and misleading.

This is the part where you seem to not be getting the significance of - you are the one that identified yourself as a formulator.

You claimed in your original post to be a formulator – you can’t have it both ways.

You either want to be replied to as a consumer or a formulator.

In my original post, post #8, my tone was no more negative than yours.

You said that you were a formulator, so my reply to you was on a more technical level and addresses false statements about ingredients – and I even specified that some of them were things that I wouldn’t expect a consumer to know, but that a formulator should.

You said I keep bringing up points like they mean something – you keep saying I was talking about your opinion or personal response – I keep bringing up the same points I addressed in post #8 because I plain as day explained in that post that the inaccurate information about the ingredients is what I had an issue with.

In my original post, post #8 I broke down your post and replied point by point to the false and inaccurate things that you said about different ingredients.

I also said that if you had wanted it to be an ingredient discussion, if you went about it in a respectful way, I would have been glad to discuss the ingredients with you - but since you wanted to approach it from a formulator level, then that's how you were replied to - because as a formulator, there's a responsibility to not provide inaccurate or false information.

Senactiv:
I never said that you blamed Senactiv - but you said that it was stimulating - and Nuliv has multiple clinical studies showing that Senactiv is not stimulating.

That's my whole point - you're identifying yourself as a formulator and saying that something is stimulating that Nuliv has clinical studies on showing that it works through non-stimulant pathways.

A consumer saying it is = misunderstanding. A formulator saying it is = misinformation.

Again, nothing I replied to about Senactiv had anything to do with your opinion or your personal responses, it’s been about the facts – that it’s not a stimulant.

Why is this so significant? Because Nuliv has spent hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars in research showing that Senactiv works through non stimulant mechanisms.

Again, keep in mind – you’re the one that brought up being a formulator, so I was replying to you as a formulator, and as a formulator, you should know the significance of you saying that something is stimulating when a branded ingredient company has clinical studies showing it isn’t.

Talking about being a formulator, you were trying to lend credibility to your post – but along with that comes the responsibility to provide accurate information.

VasoFlo:
You stated that SNS would probably say that it was in the product for recovery, so in post #8 I copied and pasted directly from the write up what it is in the product for, which is not recovery.

There was no reason to say why SNS would have said it was in there – bc SNS says why its in there in the product write up, and its in there for a lot more reasons than just recovery.

You said it was unnecessary – I showed why it was in there.

I then clarified that it’s scientifically impossible for it to do what you said, in the way that you said that it did it.

^^^ Again, keep in mind that yes, my reply to a consumer would have been different on that, but you’re the one that said you were a formulator, so I addressed it on a more technical level.

Pause for a second now and realize that if VasoFlo actually did what you said that it did and increased blood flow to the brain without increasing it anywhere else, that that would actually be an awesome thing because it would open doors for so many potential uses; so, I would have really been better off to not correct or clarify on that, but I did so in order for people to have a true understanding of it.

Apigenin:
You left out the false things you said about Apigenin, like implying that it was too high of a dose, when its actually on the lower end of the dosing scale and has been clinically researched at far higher dosing.

Again, I don’t expect a consumer to know that, but that information being presented from someone saying they’re a formulator could be very misleading and confusing to consumers and make them think that they can’t use higher dosages or other products with it in there with the product.


This whole thing is pretty ridiculous.

If you wanted a discussion, you should have originally titled the thread for a discussion (like it is now) and not something negative like it was originally.

If you wanted to initially call it a review, you should have actually reviewed the product - but you didn't you identified yourself as a formulator and then started critiquing the formula - which I actually wouldn't have had a problem with, had the information about the ingredients been correct.

If you wanted to be replied to on a chill consumer level, you shouldn't have said you were a formulator for other brands and then began to criticize the product and post false information about ingredients, especially branded ingredients.

You posted about being a formulator to try to add credibility to your post - but there's a responsibility that comes along with that to provide truthful and accurate information, so as to not deceive or confuse consumers.

That goes back to the rule that the @Admin posted about - people that work with, work for, or are associated with companies are held to a higher level of responsibility and accountability.

You're upset at me for replying to you as a formulator - but you're the one that said that you were.

Now, if you want to reword your initial post, I'll be glad to reword some of mine tomorrow. If you don't, that's okay too. But it's pointless to continue to go in circles about this.

If you want to continue this discussion, you say that you've talked to me, so if that's true then you have my contact info and you're welcome to text or call me if you would like to. If you don't have it, you're welcome to pm me for it. And if you don't want to, that's okay too, but there's no point in continuing to go circles about this bc the thread isn't going to get any actual feedback with me and you just replying to one another.

 

[Jojogreen]

You posted a thread with a negative title and called it a review, when in reality, you didn't actually review anything. You identified yourself as a formulator and then proceeded to critique the formula; the problem was a lot of the information you posted about the ingredients was false and misleading.


You said I keep bringing up points like they mean something – you keep saying I was talking about your opinion or personal response – I keep bringing up the same points I addressed in post #8 because I plain as day explained in that post that the inaccurate information about the ingredients is what I had an issue with.

In my original post, post #8 I broke down your post and replied point by point to the false and inaccurate things that you said about different ingredients.



^^^ Again, keep in mind that yes, my reply to a consumer would have been different on that, but you’re the one that said you were a formulator, so I addressed it on a more technical level.

Pause for a second now and realize that if VasoFlo actually did what you said that it did and increased blood flow to the brain without increasing it anywhere else, that that would actually be an awesome thing because it would open doors for so many potential uses; so, I would have really been better off to not correct or clarify on that, but I did so in order for people to have a true understanding of it.

Apigenin:
You left out the false things you said about Apigenin, like implying that it was too high of a dose, when its actually on the lower end of the dosing scale and has been clinically researched at far higher dosing.

Again, I don’t expect a consumer to know that, but that information being presented from someone saying they’re a formulator could be very misleading and confusing to consumers and make them think that they can’t use higher dosages or other products with it in there with the product.


This whole thing is pretty ridiculous.

If you wanted a discussion, you should have originally titled the thread for a discussion (like it is now) and not something negative like it was originally.

If you wanted to initially call it a review, you should have actually reviewed the product - but you didn't you identified yourself as a formulator and then started critiquing the formula - which I actually wouldn't have had a problem with, had the information about the ingredients been correct.

If you wanted to be replied to on a chill consumer level, you shouldn't have said you were a formulator for other brands and then began to criticize the product and post false information about ingredients, especially branded ingredients.

You posted about being a formulator to try to add credibility to your post - but there's a responsibility that comes along with that to provide truthful and accurate information, so as to not deceive or confuse consumers.

That goes back to the rule that the @Admin posted about - people that work with, work for, or are associated with companies are held to a higher level of responsibility and accountability.

"You posted a thread with a negative title and called it a review"

Funny that you are basically the only person who took it like that. I wasn't aware stating that I got insomnia was "negative" about SNS. Yeah, I had a bad reaction to PeptiPlex, but I take other SNS products without issue. If I knew you were going to get that upset about it, I would have worded it differently. But then again, if you think this is negative or going after you in any way, you wouldn't last a day on Amazon or most other review sites. My review was extremely tame and I spent most of the time trying to say nice things about the brand, including my final paragraph. You just keep ignoring this part, because it doesn't fit your narrative that I'm some "passive aggressive"(hilarious how you keep saying this, it's probably the last thing anyone would use to describe a big bearded 6'4 guy) guy came in here to dump on you. Which isn't true.

You said: "If you wanted to initially call it a review, you should have actually reviewed the product - but you didn't you identified yourself as a formulator and then started critiquing the formula - which I actually wouldn't have had a problem with, had the information about the ingredients been correct."

Most internet reviews also don't immediately start with the CEO or Owner immediately coming out and going after the reviewer for their opinion of their product either. I've read plenty of much more negative reviews which much worse things to say, and never even got to this level. You elevated this far beyond what it was. Without even knowing me or the fact that I've supported you and your brand for years. If your brand was public, a tirade like the one you went on would have all your investors scrambling to sell. I mentioned the formula because I got insomnia.

Obviously, I would talking about the formula. What else am I going to talk about in a supp review? If you have an issue with a car and are doing a review on it you're clearly going to go into the parts of the car. Your argument on why I'm some bad guy coming to attack SNS because I talked a little about Apigenin and VASOFLO is funny. I only brought up the formula to try and figure out why it happened. An examination and critique is not and has never been an insult, and only someone looking to offended would take it as such. It's even funnier considering that I stated that my experience with PeptiPlex is not an issue with SNS products as a whole or other formulations just that I had a bad reaction to it. It was my speaking about my personal experience and I think most other people on this thread took it that way other than you.

You're right, this is going round in circles. I'll finish by saying this.

You know why I've supported SNS and recommended it to almost everyone I know? Because my father was a small time supplement shop owner and small business owner who raised me to vehemently support small businesses. Especially ones where the CEOs/Owners/Leadership stand behind their products and respond to comments and support it instead of hiding. I've liked that about SNS since I found out of the brand. Not to mention the unique blends which cannot be found anywhere else. I took your supps despite working with other companies, because you had blends they didn't. It's that simple. I wasn't paid for any exclusivity.

As a competing weightlifter and athlete, I took and still take the best supps avalaible. That's why I got out of industry because I didn't want to be told who I could and couldn't support due to sponsorship. When other competitors would push other companies stuff and tell me what they were taking I told them I was taking a few SNS products and they would get interested. I wouldn't be surprised if I've put a few people here on this sub. But I've never been a big internet guy, I mostly spend time working out, working on my business, and dealing with two kids so I never came on here and until the Christmas special.

You said: "You posted about being a formulator to try to add credibility to your post - but there's a responsibility that comes along with that to provide truthful and accurate information, so as to not deceive or confuse consumers."

This is PEAK gaslighting. I remember talking to you a few months ago about how much I enjoyed Muscle Plex despite it being one of the least pushed supps and if it would ever come to SNS. Due to that, plus the interactions I've had with you before today, I've probably been one of your biggest supporters in the shadows. But your reaction here clearly shows you don't really value anyone else's opinion. Instead of seeking to understand you keep arguing with my experience and going after me being a formulator as if it means anything. I mentioned my experience formulating just to provide context that I've taken and created a lot of supps. I also grew up with them with my father. And took a ton of them in the military. And helped D1/Semi Pro guys with their supp routines when interning for my Sports Nutrition degree in college. So i've earned the right to have an opinion, both from experience, and from financially supporting this brand for years to say what I want about an experience I've had. You playing the "you were deceiving people" card is low but not surprising at this point. Imagine someone having a bad steak at a steakhouse and the head chef comes out and says "That's a false statement you were deceiving people".

If you asked a few questions, and not immediately jumped down my throat in your initial posts, this thread could and should have went entirely differently. I was more than willing to expand on a few things. But ultimately, this became your one man ego show trying to attack one of your biggest supporters online. I think judging by the changing tone of your posts, you've realized this and now are trying to find clarification but you've already burned the bridge.

As I said, if I was your one of your competitors I would be much happier about your response than one bad review, as all it's done is made you lose a lot of support that you've had. Every company/product gets a bad review here and there, but most don't respond like you did. I'm sure you are doing well enough that it won't bother you though, but you should at least know I'll be leaving a YT video on my experience with the product. Hopefully if people search for SNS/Peptiplex on Google they will find it. I wasn't going to, but I feel they should know the company they are dealing with at least, and that if they do post any sort of negative response they will just be met with mockery or attacking the individual and that there are better companies to support.

 

[sns8778]

"You posted a thread with a negative title and called it a review"

Funny that you are basically the only person who took it like that. I wasn't aware stating that I got insomnia was "negative" about SNS. Yeah, I had a bad reaction to PeptiPlex, but I take other SNS products without issue. If I knew you were going to get that upset about it, I would have worded it differently. But then again, if you think this is negative or going after you in any way, you wouldn't last a day on Amazon or most other review sites. My review was extremely tame and I spent most of the time trying to say nice things about the brand, including my final paragraph. You just keep ignoring this part, because it doesn't fit your narrative that I'm some "passive aggressive"(hilarious how you keep saying this, it's probably the last thing anyone would use to describe a big bearded 6'4 guy) guy came in here to dump on you. Which isn't true.

You said: "If you wanted to initially call it a review, you should have actually reviewed the product - but you didn't you identified yourself as a formulator and then started critiquing the formula - which I actually wouldn't have had a problem with, had the information about the ingredients been correct."

Most internet reviews also don't immediately start with the CEO or Owner immediately coming out and going after the reviewer for their opinion of their product either. I've read plenty of much more negative reviews which much worse things to say, and never even got to this level. You elevated this far beyond what it was. Without even knowing me or the fact that I've supported you and your brand for years. If your brand was public, a tirade like the one you went on would have all your investors scrambling to sell. I mentioned the formula because I got insomnia.

Obviously, I would talking about the formula. What else am I going to talk about in a supp review? If you have an issue with a car and are doing a review on it you're clearly going to go into the parts of the car. Your argument on why I'm some bad guy coming to attack SNS because I talked a little about Apigenin and VASOFLO is funny. I only brought up the formula to try and figure out why it happened. An examination and critique is not and has never been an insult, and only someone looking to offended would take it as such. It's even funnier considering that I stated that my experience with PeptiPlex is not an issue with SNS products as a whole or other formulations just that I had a bad reaction to it. It was my speaking about my personal experience and I think most other people on this thread took it that way other than you.

You're right, this is going round in circles. I'll finish by saying this.

You know why I've supported SNS and recommended it to almost everyone I know? Because my father was a small time supplement shop owner and small business owner who raised me to vehemently support small businesses. Especially ones where the CEOs/Owners/Leadership stand behind their products and respond to comments and support it instead of hiding. I've liked that about SNS since I found out of the brand. Not to mention the unique blends which cannot be found anywhere else. I took your supps despite working with other companies, because you had blends they didn't. It's that simple. I wasn't paid for any exclusivity.

This is ridiculous.

You keep saying that you’re a big supporter of the brand, but you’ve never posted a positive review – but went way above and beyond to post false information about the ingredients in Pepti-Plex.

Here’s the situation – you have less than 10 posts, most of which are in this thread, and you come on here and post a negative thread title and call it a review – but it’s not actually a review.

See, it’s not the review – I’ve said that since my first post in the thread – it was posting false information about the ingredients in it. You didn’t respond well to it? I’m sorry to hear that. But that doesn’t give you the right to post false information about the ingredients.

You post that you’re a formulator for other brands products and then instead of reviewing the product, you start saying false and misleading things about the formula.

This has nothing to do with your personal experience with this or any product – it has to do with you claiming to be a formulator and then posting false and misleading information.

You can repeat yourself however many times you want to, but anyone can read for themselves that in post #8 I didn’t go after you or attack you – I replied to false statements you wrote about ingredients.

It’s a big difference between saying that I respond differently to something than others and it seems to keep me awake – versus straight lying and saying that 2 ingredients have stimulants in them that are stimulant free. Or comparing low dose Apigenin to a tranquilizer. (You didn't say that low dose Apigenin effects you like a tranquilizer, you implied that the dosage was too high when its actually on the lower end of the dosage scale).

Nothing about this is about your opinion or personal experience with any products. It’s about you claiming to be a formulator and then acting like you’re breaking down a formula and then getting upset when I pointed out that the information you posted about the ingredients wasn’t correct.

If you want to present that car analogy correctly - the real way of looking at it would be that the way you went about this would be like someone says they’re a master mechanic and then posting false information about car parts. If a regular person that’s doesn’t know about cars posts something wrong, that’s to be expected. But if they say they’re a master mechanic, there’s a reasonable expectation that the information that they post be correct and if they post incorrect information, it comes off like they’re either lying about being a master mechanic or that they’re intentionally posting false information – and that’s my point with you, you wanted to talk about how you’re a formulator and then try to break down a formula, but then posted false information about 3 ingredients.

I’ve never said you were a bad guy – at first, I thought that you weren’t and just came off way wrong.

And I’ve said repeatedly that nothing about this had to do with you discussing an experience – it has to do with you stating false information about the ingredients. Your experience is your own – but some of the things you said about the ingredients was straight out false.

You can repeat over and over that I don’t value other people’s opinions – but pretty much everyone that posts or reads here knows that’s not true, because you won’t find any company owner that interacts with people as much as I do and tries to offer people what they want and ask for. Every year, there’s a discussion thread about what people would like to see from us, and very frequently when people mention things I don’t know about, I’ll ask them about the ingredients and what they have in mind.

That’s part of the issue – I do enjoy the ingredients and the science, and its important to me that that information is conveyed to people in an honest manner.

I do value other people’s opinions – but I value the truth. That’s’ the issue here – not your opinion, not your personal experience, whether good or bad – it’s that you identified yourself as a formulator, as in someone that should know about the ingredients, and you posted information about 3 ingredients that was false.

I’m not playing any card man – you straight out said that two stimulant free ingredients are stimulants or stimulating – again, if you were a consumer, that could be an honest mistake. But right before typing out that false info, you stated that you were a formulator.

I haven’t changed my tone at all – the whole thing is ridiculous.

You keep acting like this is about your experience with the product – when I’ve clearly stated from my very first post in the thread that different things work differently for different people, and that the issue is that you wrote things that weren’t true about the ingredients.

Your experience is your experience. Your opinion is your opinion. Neither are an issue.

The issue is that one should be able to express their opinion about a product or share their experiences about a product, without lying about the ingredients.

And if you really did believe what you posted about the ingredients, when I posted post #8 and provided the correct information, you could have simply fact checked it and edited your post, and all would have been fine.

I honestly wish that if you truly did enjoy the ingredients and like the science side like you say, that you would have chose to joint some of our ingredient discussions and have fund and enjoy yourself rather than put the negative energy into what’s happened in this thread.

 

[Wobmarvel]

I'm not being sensitive about it at all. I took the time to reply and break down the different portions to it. Most companies would have reported the post immediately and had it deleted bc its against forum rules for someone that works for or is affiliated with another company to post a negative review about a competitors product.

Instead, I took the time to reply to it in detail, but I did address and point out the parts that are false.

There were parts of his post that were fine - but there are parts that were just complete false information.

If someone wants to discuss personal experiences with a product, cool.

If someone says, hey, product XYZ affects me differently than a lot of people and here's how it affected me - cool. You've probably seen me do that myself anytime I say how I respond to something differently than other people.

If someone responds different to something, I guarantee you that you can put the term 'different things work different for different people' in the search function, and if it works, you'll see that I've posted that 20x more than anyone else in the history of AM.

I think the part that caused him to come off wrong to most people was that he presented himself as a formulator for other companies and then stated several things about ingredients that are factually incorrect:

• Like calling 25 mg. of Apigenin a tranquilizer and implying that there was something wrong with using 50 mg. in a formula, when there are plenty of people that take 400 to 600 mg. per day or more.
• Saying that Senactiv is stimulating when the company that has the patent has spent a fortune and has numerous studies showing it works by non-stimulant methods of action.
• Saying that VasoFlo has caffeine in it (it doesn't) and saying that it does something that is scientifically impossible.

Opinions are opinions and everyone is entitled to their own - but facts are facts, and facts should never be lied about or misrepresented in order to further someone's opinion.

Plus, for something to be a review, generally the positives and negatives of something would be discussed. His post was a long post bashing multiple ingredients with factually incorrect statements while claiming to be a formulator for a different company and never once attempted to do an actual review of discussing positives and negatives.

That's fair. I appreciate your passion. One of the reasons I try SNS products. I have seen that sedation is a side effect of apigenin so may be what the OP is refering to but I believe that is at extreme dosages like 30 to 50mg per kg of bodyweight so like you say his info was incorrect. I was just saying that things that felt like a personal attack to your company or yourself didn't read like a personal attack to me but I get it. It's not for me to say how someone else should feel about a statement people will feel how they feel.

 

[Resolve10]

That's fair. I appreciate your passion. One of the reasons I try SNS products. I have seen that sedation is a side effect of apigenin so may be what the OP is refering to but I believe that is at extreme dosages like 30 to 50mg per kg of bodyweight so like you say his info was incorrect. I was just saying that things that felt like a personal attack to your company or yourself didn't read like a personal attack to me but I get it. It's not for me to say how someone else should feel about a statement people will feel how they feel.

Fwiw I tried to be polite in my initial post because I know how sensitive people get online, but his post immediately hit me as in bad taste basically calling to attention as like an appeal to authority that he formulates products only to write out an overly long drawn out post full of things that don’t logically make sense for someone who should understand these types of ingredients.

I haven’t read anything after I posted either though since I just can’t be bothered lately, would have easily been avoided with a better framing of a post rather than whatever it seemed the intention was here.

Just seems odd considering the other things people actively consume on here that actually have negative effects or the terrible formulations people praise just because they get them for free.

I’m unsubbing though regardless, feels like maybe I should take a break again as this was literally the first thing I saw when I decided to interact with this forum again after some time off.

 

[max silver]

As a competing weightlifter and athlete, I took and still take the best supps avalaible. That's why I got out of industry because I didn't want to be told who I could and couldn't support due to sponsorship. When other competitors would push other companies stuff and tell me what they were taking I told them I was taking a few SNS products and they would get interested. I wouldn't be surprised if I've put a few people here on this sub. But I've never been a big internet guy, I mostly spend time working out, working on my business, and dealing with two kids so I never came on here and until the Christmas special.

You said: "You posted about being a formulator to try to add credibility to your post - but there's a responsibility that comes along with that to provide truthful and accurate information, so as to not deceive or confuse consumers."

This is PEAK gaslighting. I remember talking to you a few months ago about how much I enjoyed Muscle Plex despite it being one of the least pushed supps and if it would ever come to SNS. Due to that, plus the interactions I've had with you before today, I've probably been one of your biggest supporters in the shadows. But your reaction here clearly shows you don't really value anyone else's opinion. Instead of seeking to understand you keep arguing with my experience and going after me being a formulator as if it means anything. I mentioned my experience formulating just to provide context that I've taken and created a lot of supps. I also grew up with them with my father. And took a ton of them in the military. And helped D1/Semi Pro guys with their supp routines when interning for my Sports Nutrition degree in college. So i've earned the right to have an opinion, both from experience, and from financially supporting this brand for years to say what I want about an experience I've had. You playing the "you were deceiving people" card is low but not surprising at this point. Imagine someone having a bad steak at a steakhouse and the head chef comes out and says "That's a false statement you were deceiving people".

If you asked a few questions, and not immediately jumped down my throat in your initial posts, this thread could and should have went entirely differently. I was more than willing to expand on a few things. But ultimately, this became your one man ego show trying to attack one of your biggest supporters online. I think judging by the changing tone of your posts, you've realized this and now are trying to find clarification but you've already burned the bridge.

As I said, if I was your one of your competitors I would be much happier about your response than one bad review, as all it's done is made you lose a lot of support that you've had. Every company/product gets a bad review here and there, but most don't respond like you did. I'm sure you are doing well enough that it won't bother you though, but you should at least know I'll be leaving a YT video on my experience with the product. Hopefully if people search for SNS/Peptiplex on Google they will find it. I wasn't going to, but I feel they should know the company they are dealing with at least, and that if they do post any sort of negative response they will just be met with mockery or attacking the individual and that there are better companies to support.

I seriously think you should go back and reread your original post in it's entirety. I do believe that you didn't intend any ill will when making that particular post, but much of the substance of it is rather inflammatory in nature and the criticism contained within isn't particularly constructive. You repeatedly reference a side effect of this product that is only applying to yourself personally, and then proceed to make a series of guesses as to why this might be the case. Things really go off of the rails when you start to criticize the entire formulation based on pure speculation on the root cause of this particular side effect. This compounds further when you directly inference that this side effect must be one that's really widespread and that you can be certain others are scared to post similar issues on this board, rather than this side effect so far being reported by only one individual. I can fully understand why Steve would find this to be offensive.

The fact that you went out of your way to attempt to establish credibility as a supplement expert only served to amplify the inflammatory nature of the criticism. I think we could all agree that Steve has almost certainly spent far more time researching and testing these ingredients compared to yourself and as such having a first time poster popping up on here, reporting themselves to be an expert and then proceeding to pick apart the entire formulation based on a bunch of guesswork would be unlikely to be particularly well received. I can say for myself I had no issues with you reporting that this product caused you to suffer from insomnia as I've reacted poorly to plenty of supplements myself in the past. However I can definitively state that if I were to post a review on a forum frequented by the company owner and made some speculative statements about why the product was a poor formulation based on my own personal experience I wouldn't expect this to be particularly well received and would fully expect to receive some sort of pushback.

There were a lot of ways you could have posted most of the same information without causing the type of drama that eventually unfolded. First off I don't think anyone is particularly interested that you've formulated supplements in the past. That's cool I guess but it doesn't somehow give you the right to start criticizing a formulation based on pure speculation towards what ingredient(s) in a formulation caused you as an individual to experience side effects. If you simply referenced this as a discussion towards attempting to determine what ingredients were problematic for you it would have been a great starting point towards a really interesting discussion, there was zero need for the criticism that you levelled in the initial post.

I think this discussion could still eventually be pushed towards something that's more productive moving forward. I'd hope that a simply apology from you that you didn't intend to offend with the original post would hopefully allow everyone to move forward and put the disagreement in the past. You've taken the tact to blame Steve for being offended by posts which were quite simply offensive in nature, and that's simply not fair in any way shape or form. As you are a self proclaimed formulator I would surmise that you could be a rather valuable poster who could offer a lot of worthwhile insight and knowledge to the other members here, so hopefully you can attempt to alter the path of this discussion into something that can eventually lead to a fruitful discussion instead of doubling down on the attacks towards Steve and his product that the initial post led directly to.

 

[Anabolic66]

I take four Pepti-Plex caps per day. 2 at 4 AM and 2 around noontime...
No insomnia of any kind observed...

 

[BCseacow83]

Comparing 25mg of Apigenin to a 'low dose tranquilizer'... lol

Don't forget the ability to SUBJECTIVELY "FEEL" enhanced blood flow to ONLY the region of the brain that keeps you awake.

I am calling ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT on this post. "I am big in the industry, and create formulas but will post anonymously...............blah blah blah.

Calls apigenin ambien and then proceeds to whine about not being able to sleep. Utter nonsense.

 

[baldwanus]

Don't forget the ability to SUBJECTIVELY "FEEL" enhanced blood flow to ONLY the region of the brain that keeps you awake.

I am calling ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT on this post. "I am big in the industry, and create formulas but will post anonymously...............blah blah blah.

Calls apigenin ambien and then proceeds to whine about not being able to sleep. Utter nonsense.

Yea.. if the OP had simply posted something basic along the lines of "been taking Pepti-Plex, and have been noticing some insomnia. Anyone else experience this?' this thread probably wouldn't have devolved into what it did.

Instead, we got an essay about how hes a formulator, and proceeds to rattle off blatant misinformation/absolutely wild claims while he 'broke down' the formula. Pair on top of this its a new account that has barely posted on here.. gotta love the internet.

 

[jewgold]

Just started using Pepti-plex, been on it for 3 weeks or so and can't say it has any "stim-like" effects. Been noticing deeper sleeps. Currently switched to a night shift schedule and before would have issues falling asleep and staying asleep.

Normally when on a night shift schedule I would fall asleep but then wake up around 3-4pm and be running on 4-5 hours of sleep so this has been a god send. Before I would wake up before my alarm rings but lately I've been woken up my my alarm and still feel like I could go back to sleep. Never experienced that before doing night shift when not taking something like this.

Vasoflo was one of the ingredients I was thrilled to see and experience. I noticed the sleep/recovery benefits of black tea extract before in the form of camellia sinensis a long time ago when there was a product that had it in it. Anyone remember Ergobolic?
Had deep sleep and better recovery on it.

So it does remain true that these things effect people differently.

 

[Danksta710]

Industry has always had a bullshitter problem. Big reason why the good companies have a hard time succeeding. Public perception on supps is very mixed and often negative. So I immediately saw this post for what it was.

It's a shame because Steve clearly spent a lot of personal time yesterday dealing with this one thread. He has more important things to worry about.

His formulator comment was a direct attack in my eyes, because Steve is and mentions he formulates for other companies. It's easy to see this was an attack if you've been on this board long enough.

We need Steve, we don't need this kind of energy. 2024 is a big year for SNS. I'm excited and focusing on that!

 

[larkham]

I’ll repeat what I said in another thread.
I’ve had poor sleep over the last 18 months, frequent wake ups. Nothing has worked from melatonin, TR melatonin, magnesium, theanine etc etc except this.
Compound the quality sleep with the recovery effects and this is a staple for me in my old age.
3 x 2 caps per days works best but 2x 2 caps still works well enough.
Almost finished 3 bottles now and just purchased another 4!!!! Will be running year round

 

[Electrake]

Personally, this thread is the reason I finally pulled the trigger and bought a bottle

 

[sns8778]

Yea.. if the OP had simply posted something basic along the lines of "been taking Pepti-Plex, and have been noticing some insomnia. Anyone else experience this?' this thread probably wouldn't have devolved into what it did.

Instead, we got an essay about how hes a formulator, and proceeds to rattle off blatant misinformation/absolutely wild claims while he 'broke down' the formula. Pair on top of this its a new account that has barely posted on here.. gotta love the internet.

You are absolutely correct. If he would have posted something like that, he would have gotten feedback from others about having not experienced it, and I would have been glad to help him and would have asked what else he was taking and tried to help him figure out if there was a way around it, or if not, I would have offered to exchange out any sealed bottles he had for something else.

It was the way he went about it with a negative thread title (title has been changed now) and then exactly like you said - identifying himself as a formulator and instead of it being a review or discussion type of post, posting false information about the ingredients.

And if he really did believe those things, once I posted the info about them being incorrect, a simple - my bad, let me edit that, sorry about that - would have been fine and the discussion could have went from there.

I never criticize anyone for sharing how they have a different response to anything. I talk a lot about how different things work differently for differently people and sometimes share my own experiences with that from over the years - I've shared experiences where things effect me differently in both good and bad ways, but I always make sure to do it in a way that makes it clear that its not the ingredient or the product, but just the way I respond myself.

I love the science, I love the ingredients, and I love helping people - I often talk about how I miss the days when more people were interested in discussing the actual ingredients and science and things.

 

[kfinle1]

If I am reading the information contained in this thread correctly---my initial hope for a supplement that would make my brain reluctant to "shut off" has been dashed. Oh well. Steve.....if you know of such a supplement, I would pay a king's ransom for it.

 

[sns8778]

If I am reading the information contained in this thread correctly---my initial hope for a supplement that would make my brain reluctant to "shut off" has been dashed. Oh well. Steve.....if you know of such a supplement, I would pay a king's ransom for it.

Can you explain more about what you mean and are looking for?

Pepti-Plex is really a 2 in 1 product in that it is a great natural anabolic muscle builder, but also a great anti-aging and longevity product.

A lot of people feel much better and more refreshed during the day from Pepti-Plex and have better energy levels from it, but its not from a stimulating standpoint.

When you improve muscle health, blood flow, and senescence, there are a lot of benefits to the way that that can help you feel. There are also cognitive benefits, and a lot of people notice they are more clear headed when taking it and seem to think better. There's also the benefit of it helping improve restful sleep - and as some in this thread have commented, how it helps you feel more refreshed and rejuvenated during the day.

A lot of people have shared their experiences with it in this thread (thank you) - here's another example on the anti-aging and longevity side for context. My 93 yo grandmother takes it and she cannot have coffee or even chocolate because even having it in the morning will keep her up at night. She says that her mind is sharper on it, she feels better overall and can do more than she could before without being sore or giving out, and she just in general feels better during the day. She also says that she wakes up less at night now.


In your case, when you say you want something to help you keep your brain from shutting off during the day, is that along the lines of what you're looking for? Or do you mean something more energy related?

 

[kfinle1]

Thanks for the reply Steve. I am always in search of long-lasting natural stims. I have access to a variety of prescription medications that serve this purpose but they come with a side order of dependency and as I age, I am becoming more heart conscious so amphetamine derivatives are less appealing. Of course, I assume nothing natural comes close to adderal or phentermine, but what natural options are out there now? Or on the horizon?

 

[sns8778]

Thanks for the reply Steve. I am always in search of long-lasting natural stims. I have access to a variety of prescription medications that serve this purpose but they come with a side order of dependency and as I age, I am becoming more heart conscious so amphetamine derivatives are less appealing. Of course, I assume nothing natural comes close to adderal or phentermine, but what natural options are out there now? Or on the horizon?

Are you looking for something with caffeine or caffeine free?

Are you looking for fat loss, or just a stimulant? The reason I ask is that there are some really good energy products, but they double as fat loss products too; and that may be desirable for some people, but not others.

 

[kfinle1]

I used to love me some caffeine and Adrena-G. I missed the boat when Adrena was dropped from the SNS line-up. I would have purchased a boatload at that time. Anyhow, I have tons of caffeine so I was thinking along the lines of a single ingredient or two that I can stack with caffeine and get an effect comparable to Adrena + Caff. I have dabbled with a variety of fat-loss products for the stim effect, but I am not too keen on paying for all of the ingredients.