Patrick Arnold and Epistane

Status
Not open for further replies.
It's more of the same BS we've seen PA pull before. Yeah, Superdrol doesn't work at all and neither does Epistane. It's just some sort of miracle that people gain 8-20 pounds off of either compound and numerous companies race to put out clones. That's a sure sign that a compound in bunk..right?

Dr D, don't go thinking you need to defend yourself. You've always put the community first and we appreciate that.
 
I dont think there is much more I can add. I have been fortunate enough to speak with Dr.D and he is one of the most trustworthy and genuine men I know. He will never steer you wrong.
 
BB is the General Hospital of forums. I have had my share of run ins over there and even got neg once for saying IBE was a good company.

PA is a good chemist but a bad Business man. He should have been well beyond rich by now. There a fews guys out there right now who are on the cutting edge more then PA, most can be found on this forum. Dr. D is someone I trust and so is IBE. In fact, I trust them so much, I will even take a free bottle fo X-Dreams;)
 
bkprice said:
BB is the General Hospital of forums. I have had my share of run ins over there and even got neg once for saying IBE was a good company.

PA is a good chemist but a bad Business man. He should have been well beyond rich by now. There a fews guys out there right now who are on the cutting edge more then PA, most can be found on this forum. Dr. D is someone I trust and so is IBE. In fact, I trust them so much, I will even take a free bottle fo X-Dreams;)
Click to expand...

Are you the wise BK from BB?:pose::djparty:
 
I am a late commer to this thread, I missed it until now. BUT as always, for what its worth, IBE and Dr.D have my full support and belief in their ethics and commitment to our community.

Mr.50
 
yea, Dr. D and IBE have my full support also...I trust in IBE...and Dr. D has always been very knowledgable when it comes to the things that matter most...
 
bioman said:
It's more of the same BS we've seen PA pull before. Yeah, Superdrol doesn't work at all and neither does Epistane. It's just some sort of miracle that people gain 8-20 pounds off of either compound and numerous companies race to put out clones. That's a sure sign that a compound in bunk..right?

Dr D, don't go thinking you need to defend yourself. You've always put the community first and we appreciate that.
Click to expand...

man, dont you know that the brain is a powerful thing! ;)

I trust Dr. D completely... PA seems childish in his finger pointing without getting all the facts...his mother probably didnt hold him enough as a child...
 
tattoopierced1 said:
man, dont you know that the brain is a powerful thing! ;)

I trust Dr. D completely... PA seems childish in his finger pointing without getting all the facts...his mother probably didnt hold him enough as a child...
Click to expand...

Or too much...ya never know with those things...:toofunny:
 
You da man Big D! I've never seen any of the guys questioning Epistane help anybody, let alone as much as you do. It seems like you have nothing to hide, including sharing your information and helping others. You truly are a man among men.
 
Ergo and IBE are both releasing energy drinks now, ergo and IBE both have energy pills going head to head).
Click to expand...

Ergo is in a totally different league. Just because they make products in the same category doesn't mean they are competition. Ergo FAR more successful as a company than IBE is. I can assure you nobody in the industry is worried about an IBE takeover in any category.

I've seen the test results. Hell, I have a copy of them on this computer. PA can't post what he found and I don't blame him. I however can. For those that don't know, I don't own 1fast/bn anymore, sold it last year. I have no company ties. This whole deal peaked my interest enough that I'm having a lab test epistane just to see. They should be ordered it today or tomorrow and it will likely take 10 days or so to get results. I'll post whatever happens. Dr. D has done not testing on this product. There is no standard for it and I can assure you as soon as the powder got "in stock", it went into a cap, not to a lab. He may be testing it now, but he didn't when it came in. Havoc is dead nuts on. It is exactly what it is supposed to be.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I am curious. So a testing we will go.
 
1Fast400 said:
Ergo is in a totally different league. Just because they make products in the same category doesn't mean they are competition. Ergo FAR more successful as a company than IBE is. I can assure you nobody in the industry is worried about an IBE takeover in any category.

I've seen the test results. Hell, I have a copy of them on this computer. PA can't post what he found and I don't blame him. I however can. For those that don't know, I don't own 1fast/bn anymore, sold it last year. I have no company ties. This whole deal peaked my interest enough that I'm having a lab test epistane just to see. They should be ordered it today or tomorrow and it will likely take 10 days or so to get results. I'll post whatever happens. Dr. D has done not testing on this product. There is no standard for it and I can assure you as soon as the powder got "in stock", it went into a cap, not to a lab. He may be testing it now, but he didn't when it came in. Havoc is dead nuts on. It is exactly what it is supposed to be.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but I am curious. So a testing we will go.
Click to expand...

From what I saw, he said he did have a standard:

"The problem I have is not with the MS/GC, it's Pat's statement that it's the "best id" method out there. That's just not true. And maybe you missed my comments earlier, I do have a standard! That's my whole point! I have the only standard in existence that I'm aware of, so are you telling me and the people here that running an MS is a better id that an FTIR with a reference standard?!"


But since this is a heavily biased board, I'll just delete everything :rolleyes:

Fvck if I care...test everything.
 
He says he has a standard so he must? I'd rather trust a REAL doctor, not someone that plays one on the internet. There is a lot of conflicting reports out there. This should be the easiest way to solve it.

Dr D's "standard" is nothing more than a batch of material he got 18-24 months ago. He's using that as his standard.
 
1Fast400 said:
He says he has a standard so he must? I'd rather trust a REAL doctor, not someone that plays one on the internet. There is a lot of conflicting reports out there. This should be the easiest way to solve it.

Dr D's "standard" is nothing more than a batch of material he got 18-24 months ago. He's using that as his standard.
Click to expand...

Does seem funny you picked this one though.

Are you just testing Epistane? I wouldn't want anyone to accuse you of being heavily biased, you know Mike?
 
1Fast400 said:
He says he has a standard so he must? I'd rather trust a REAL doctor, not someone that plays one on the internet. There is a lot of conflicting reports out there. This should be the easiest way to solve it.

Dr D's "standard" is nothing more than a batch of material he got 18-24 months ago. He's using that as his standard.
Click to expand...

And you have no biases, at all, I take it? We are to trust you completely the sample you send out will be a randomly purchased Epistane bottle? Please.

In this industry there is absolutely, unequivocaly, an inherent bias within each individual who partakes in its activity. It is really quite sad. I doubt a figure such as yourself is somehow precluded from this group; just as you do not trust D's claim of a standard based solely on his words, I do not trust your claim of objectivity just because you have stated it. I am actually quite surprised you have not noted this glaring contradiction in your argument yourself.

If a respected member, independent of this situation were to choose a bottle at random and have it shipped, I could/would find solice in the results. You, or others so engrained (or formerly)? Not very likely.
 
You all can send me a crate of bottles so I can randomly pick one out to have tested. :)

Hey Mullet...


You complete me.
 
I have no reason to check the other. From the testing I saw, it was dead nuts on. Epistane was the one in question. I hate Dsade more than any poster on the internet probably. I have no desire to see him flourish. That is a personal issue between him and I. I just see Dr. D going around making wild claims, such that he has tested this material when he hasn't and it annoys me. Dr D got caught a couple of years ago in the same situation. His material was found to be bunk and it cost a compay quite a bit of money. All because they trusted him. He's doing the same thing here.

Like I said, I benefit in no way shape or form no matter what happens. I just think this guy is a fraud. It is my personal opinion and I'm very likely to be proved wrong with the testing. If I am, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

All I know is that Dr D could have EASILY ended all of this negative pub if he would just post the test that he claims to have.
 
We are to trust you completely the sample you send out will be a randomly purchased Epistane bottle? Please.
Click to expand...

You know nothing of testing. I've done more testing on products and materials than anyone on these message boards. The bottle of epistane has already been ordered by the lab and is enroute. I will never touch this stuff. I call up a VERY well respected lab, they order it and they test it. It follows all of the chain of custody issues. I'm nothing more than a paying customer to them. So even if I HAD a bias, it won't affect the results.

I will wait for you response on how this form of testing will still be bias.
 
Is it very odd that epistane has all this publicity. Hmmm I wonder why. Out of the woodworks they come. Bottom line is PA has pulled this bs before. He's a jailbird with a chip on his shoulder I wonder why no one believes him?
 
I think in his context he meant he will never touch it because the chain of custody will go from the supplier to the lab...


I think that's what he meant.
 
There it is. You haven't even tested it for yourself, and you say you wouldn't touch it. Is it because you trust the PA test? Or is it because you just felt like stating that you wouldn't use the compound (I assume that would then go for Havoc, seeing as unless you have testing to compare w/Havoc, they are the same compound)?
Click to expand...

I have never claimed to have tested this myself. I have test results, sitting right here in my email, from epistane and havoc being tested by someone else. They aren't showing the same results. That is all I will say. I can't release this testing as I didn't do it. I wasn't involved in the chain of custody. I trust the source of this testing enough to have my OWN testing done. It is obvious something isn't right. Since I can't prove to 100% fact his results (as I don't know all the conditions), I will simply have it tested myself by an accredited lab.
 
1.The reason this is all open is because PA came out and said something was fishy with IBE and their product.

-So you test this because someone else is saying this is a bad product. You may not have a bias but that doesn't mean PA doesn.t

2. PA didn't bash Havoc.

-So because he didn't bash Havoc you see no need to test it?


I have used Havoc and have not used IBE's Epi but I still think bandwagoning to discredit IBE is harsh and uncalled for unless there is specific proof that to date, no one has provided. If you truely had no 'dog in the hunt' it seems to me that you would have both tested.
 
1Fast400 said:
I have never claimed to have tested this myself. I have test results, sitting right here in my email, from epistane and havoc being tested by someone else. They aren't showing the same results. That is all I will say. I can't release this testing as I didn't do it. I wasn't involved in the chain of custody. I trust the source of this testing enough to have my OWN testing done. It is obvious something isn't right. Since I can't prove to 100% fact his results (as I don't know all the conditions), I will simply have it tested myself by an accredited lab.
Click to expand...

So both we're tested? If so, then forget the "why".
 
I think in his context he meant he will never touch it because the chain of custody will go from the supplier to the lab...
Click to expand...

Exactly, I can't influence the results in any way as I'm not touching the product. Sorry for the confusion.

Bobo, I'm not testing havoc because the testing I saw, which was the same testing method used on epistance produced a result that was spot on for the label. The epistane product didn't. I'm not claiming it to be ineffective. I'm simply stating that whatever was in that bottle that was tested, was not what was on the side of the label.
 
1Fast400 said:
Exactly, I can't influence the results in any way as I'm not touching the product. Sorry for the confusion.

Bobo, I'm not testing havoc because the testing I saw, which was the same testing method used on epistance produced a result that was spot on for the label. The epistane product didn't. I'm not claiming it to be ineffective. I'm simply stating that whatever was in that bottle that was tested, was not what was on the side of the label.
Click to expand...

Cool. I didn't know both we're tested.

Considering where you started from, this does seem ironic.
 
I still think to be fair, unbiased and keep everything legit that both products should be tested by the same lab. You should be double checking both positive and negative results, imho. Now I am confident Havoc is legit but fair is fair.
 
Jayhawkk said:
I still think to be fair, unbiased and keep everything legit that both products should be tested by the same lab. You should be double checking both positive and negative results, imho. Now I am confident Havoc is legit but fair is fair.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I am saying. In this objectivity crusade (believe it or not, I actually support the concept) you should be testing ALL likewise products. Bias need not be apparent in the testing itself, what one omits as compared to what he decides to test speaks very loudly.

Aside from that, you did not reveal how you would be testing the product, period. I made an assumption, which has turned out to be wrong about the method you'll employ.

On a sidenote, I thought the "you know nothing of testing" was fairly comical. I laughed out loud when I saw it because it seemed as if you were attempting to be a character from 300, equipped with overwhelming valour.
 
1fast if you have the results then post them. I have access to IR to NMR as well as GCMS. I would like to see how they compare I dont even care if anyone believes what i have to say when it comes down to it. I would have personal piece of mind. Anyway I would know in an instant if the results that you put up are BS or not when i run the IR. Dr.D seems to be confident enough that he said these results can be posted. You have also stated that you can post them earlier. This is nuts there is all this, oooooooohhh I know this result or that blah blah blah but no one has put **** up. This is nonsense. Everyone involved seems to claim that they just want people to know the truth but no damn truth is shown just mindless arguments and nonsense.
 
Considering I'm doing this on my own and will spend between 500-1000 bucks just for my own ****s and giggles, you guys can test the other products. I'm just doing this to satisfy my own curiosity. You guys are the ones that benefit from it. For people getting something for "free", there sure is a lot of *****ing. Then again, that is how this industry is and always will be.
 
I can't hand out the results that someone else did. I did that 2 years ago and it cost me 15k in lawyers. It was over Glucorell-R. Gerenova, a suppler of R-ala tested mine product, theirs and someone else's. When they sent me the results, they had the other companies results on there. I posted it and 4 days later I had lawsuit papers.
 
Hahah...Ulter...jesus....i feel old.
 
You're not where this started however you have claimed that you have no reason not to post the results. I just recieved my epistane yesterday and saw that the filler is simply maltodextrin seperating the two compounds would be very simple and I have access to a lab I could leave now and go to campus and run the tests. I would like to see this GCMS or IR or whatever it is you have. Also what qualifications do you have for interpreting this data. Is there an NMR and how many different carbons are there in this result. What are the integrals on the H's? What does all that tell you about the structure of the chemical. I'm by no means an expert but are you an organic chemist how much Ochem do you have under your belt? Have you been through instramental analysis? Furthermore I have never seen a scientific journal or the FDA for that matter make statements such as the ones you are making and not show any damn proof or test results to back it. If you were going to shell out the money to get the tests done, then you should have kept your fingers off the keyboard about this till you had the results.
 
Well, it is your own cash so you have a point and you're right about getting a free reading of a product. But what seems to be good intentions at first can end up looking like a shady attempt to bring doubt on a product.

Of course with your money another 1k shouldn't be too much of an issue :)
 
Friction, you are stupid. I'm on my way to the charlotte bobcats game. I'll deal with you later and your ignorant post.

If you can't understand the potential legal issues, such as the ones I've already laid out, then there is no hope for you. Under no circumstance am I going to release someone else's test results for the EXACT reason I laid out 3 posts ago. Please purchase a reading comprehension book. I'll be providing a test later on for you.
 
I understand the legal issues maybe you should'nt have said you can post them if you can't. That seems slightly more ignorant to me.

Name calling, wow, I'm thoroughly impressed with the irony of you calling someone ignorant and calling them names in the same post.
 
Friction,

please follow.

1. He has results from PA. He can't post those.

2. He is getting another test done for HIM.

3. He said he CAN post those.


End of story.


Chill out, both of you.
 
Yeah I went back and looked his post over quick. I'm just getting annoyed and heated about the nonsense of all this he said she said.

I apologize for being a **** Mike. You were the only guy I was able to get M1T powder from back in the day and I respect what you have done in the industry. So I'm done.
 
Posting another person's results without knowing the results are legit can give way to large lawsuits. Especially if his pockets are as deep as he says they are. I have no problem waiting out the results. My only interest in this is putting my opinion on how I think things would be better delt with. I have friends on all sides of this messy ****fest. I Dsade, I like Dr.D. Both have been nothing but nice to me the whole time I have known them. I have had nothing but great interactions with IBE.

I hate the fact it has gone the way it did but I still think that keeping past bias or future bias out of the mix as well as keeping any personal issues any person involved has with another out of the results will go a long way. Regardless if you're a small time player or a big timer, you're(generic you to all involved) still part of the same side and should be doing more to help the industry.

Integrity, honesty, loyalty...Those shouldn't be compromised for anything much less for something as simple as this.
 
man every board has some epistane drama on it.

damn 1fast i didnt knowu hated dsade that much didn tu guys work together?
 
I have a really, really big d1ck.

Oh damn, wrong thread.

Or is it?

And when will this **** ever end? God damn guys, please do not turn this place into the mass pissing contest BB.com is. 1fast will post his results when he gets them. Until then, can we all practice the long forgotten art of patience? And if he doesn't post, then call bull****.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top